Wales vs Samoa KO 19:30 Fri 16th Nov - Match Thread/Build Up etc....

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

WALES V Samoa

Venue: Millennium Stadium Cardiff Date: Friday, 16 November Kick-off: 19:30 GMT

Coverage: Live on BBC One Wales & online; live on S4C; live commentary on BBC Radio Wales & online; live commentary on Radio Cymru

Seeing as no one has started a thread yet I thought I would.

Enjoy the discussion.

Leigh Halfpenny
Alex Cuthbert
Ashley Beck
Jamie Roberts
George North
Dan Biggar
Mike Phillips
Paul James
Richard Hibbard
Aaron Jarvis
Bradley Davies
Ian Evans
Ryan Jones (Capt)
Justin Tipuric
Toby Faletau

REPLACEMENTS:
Ken Owens, Gethin Jenkins, Scott Andrews, Luke Charteris, Sam Warburton, Tavis Knoyle, Rhys Priestland, Scott Williams

Samoa:
F Autagavaia (Northland)
P Perez (Eastern Province)
G Pisi (Northampton)
P Williams (Stade Francais)
D Lemi (Worcester, captain)
T Pisi (Suntory)
K Fotuali'i (Ospreys)
S Taulafo (Wasps)
O Avei (Bordeaux-Begles)
C Johnston (Toulouse)
D Leo (Perpignan)
T Paulo (North Harbour)
O Treviranus (London Irish)
M Fa'asavalu (Harlequins)
T Tuifua (Newcastle)

Replacements: T Paulo (Clermont Auvergne), V Afatia (Agen), J Johnston (Harlequins), F Lemalu (Mont de Marsan), T Fomai (Hawke's Bay), J Su'a (Tasman), J Leota (Sale), R Lilomaiava (Laulii).

[wales606]

When teams lose games in which they are favorites, they are supposed to come back the next week and smash whoever they are playing...what happened to that rule?

[GLove39]

Very well done Samoa. To win by 7 away in Wales and miss 13 points from the boot is rather impressive.

[Looseheaded]

Congratulations Samoa, anybody out in Cardiff today I'll pay you a handsome sum if somehow Rob Howley finds his head on a pike in front of the stadium.

[mckay1402]

I seem to remember Howley being a losing captain as well. goodness knows what he's doing with them...

[Guest]

Why is everyone worried about falling out of the top 8 for the World Cup (from a Wales perspective)? W always end up in a group of death anyway, it's just that this time we may be the 'plucky' 3rd team.

[eirebilly]

I really loved Rob Howley as a player but he has never shown any inkling that he would make a great manager. How to the WRU not see this, are they as blind as the Irish?

[Knackeredknees]

I seem to remember Howley being a losing captain as well. goodness knows what he's doing with them...

Apart from everyone blaming Howley, how many of those player actually looked like they had pride in that jersey?? I could only see 1/2p!

[eirebilly]

Why is everyone worried about falling out of the top 8 for the World Cup (from a Wales perspective)? W always end up in a group of death anyway, it's just that this time we may be the 'plucky' 3rd team.

Feck, i just spat some beer

[Gibson]

I really loved Rob Howley as a player but he has never shown any inkling that he would make a great manager. How to the WRU not see this, are they as blind as the Irish?

It seems that way Billser. Even the English are more competitive now.

[Shifty]

When teams lose games in which they are favorites, they are supposed to come back the next week and smash whoever they are playing...what happened to that rule?

It's just the Welsh way mate, we won the 6 Nations in 1994, and got whitewashed in 1995. won a slam in 2005, finished 5th in 2006, etc.

Facts are these boys have believed their own press and stopped aspiring to be better players and gone backwards. Their not as dedicated or committed as they were last year and look like they can't be arsed.

Or maybe a different perspective, without Gatland steering the ship, Wales are just been shown up for what they really are... an average to poor team who use big players to bully their way forward and have no plan B when that doesn't work.

We're so flat and uninterested in defense and attack it's shocking.

[Guest]

Why is everyone worried about falling out of the top 8 for the World Cup (from a Wales perspective)? W always end up in a group of death anyway, it's just that this time we may be the 'plucky' 3rd team.

Feck, i just spat some beer

Glad I made you laugh! But seriously though, if Samoa get in as the 2nd seeds and we're in as 3rd to the same pool, then what difference does it really make to last year? Same pool, same teams!

[Imperialbigdave]

[Gibson]

I seem to remember Howley being a losing captain as well. goodness knows what he's doing with them...

Apart from everyone blaming Howley, how many of those player actually looked like they had pride in that jersey?? I could only see 1/2p!

Yep. Its not all down to the coach. They fell off and were scared of the Samoans. It was obvious.

[eirebilly]

I really loved Rob Howley as a player but he has never shown any inkling that he would make a great manager. How to the WRU not see this, are they as blind as the Irish?

It seems that way Billser. Even the English are more competitive now.

These results really highlights the importance of a good manager Gibbo

[Imperialbigdave]

and that is all I have to say.

[Manky-Flanker]

Well done Samoa, great composure for that second try.

Not going to get any easier for Wales with the ABs next.

[eirebilly]

Why is everyone worried about falling out of the top 8 for the World Cup (from a Wales perspective)? W always end up in a group of death anyway, it's just that this time we may be the 'plucky' 3rd team.

Feck, i just spat some beer

Glad I made you laugh! But seriously though, if Samoa get in as the 2nd seeds and we're in as 3rd to the same pool, then what difference does it really make to last year? Same pool, same teams!

You feican stole what i wanted to write about Ireland

[Guest]

and that is all I have to say.

Doesn't really have the same impact when other posts get in between your two posts!

[mckay1402]

I seem to remember Howley being a losing captain as well. goodness knows what he's doing with them...

Apart from everyone blaming Howley, how many of those player actually looked like they had pride in that jersey?? I could only see 1/2p!

Yep. Its not all down to the coach. They fell off and were scared of the Samoans. It was obvious.

Nonsense. At this level you're not scared of other teams. They have no faith in what they're doing. I agree with the fact that they looked like they had no desire but I think it is because they don't believe in the coach

[Imperialbigdave]

and that is all I have to say.

Doesn't really have the same impact when other posts get in between your two posts!

I know, I was too slow. A bit like the welsh forwards... HIYOOOOOOOOOOO. Im sorry my welsh friends. had to be done.

[Gibson]

I really loved Rob Howley as a player but he has never shown any inkling that he would make a great manager. How to the WRU not see this, are they as blind as the Irish?

It seems that way Billser. Even the English are more competitive now.

These results really highlights the importance of a good manager Gibbo

And with a gameplan that suits the players he has at his disposal. Wales and us, are on the same deluded level at the minute.

Now we know what its like to be a Scottish RU fan.In their defence, at least they are not deluded.

[majesticimperialman]

I honestly thopught that Wales would not lose tonight.

I thought Wales was a better team than Samoa. But watching the game Wales did not look like they wanted to play tonight.

Samoa was deffo the better team tonight.

They thought that Samoa would be a push over. So they would save the strength until next week when the All Blacks come to town.

If Wales play like this against the All Blacks. I can see a big disapointment for the Welsh team.

[RogerLewis]

It all makes sense now.

Howley been in charge since the grandslam. He's ruined the squad and the 3 losses in Australia have destroyed the players confidence and mental state.

[eirebilly]

I really loved Rob Howley as a player but he has never shown any inkling that he would make a great manager. How to the WRU not see this, are they as blind as the Irish?

It seems that way Billser. Even the English are more competitive now.

These results really highlights the importance of a good manager Gibbo

And with a gameplan that suits the players he has at his disposal. Wales and us, are on the same deluded level at the minute.

Now we know what its it like to be a Scottish RU fan. At least they are not deluded.

ASBO???

[Notch]

Samoa

The passion and skill Samoa bring to international rugby is brilliant. France vs Samoa will be worth a watch. After that result they will be flying!

[Guest]

What worries me most is that we've not got any moves going. Some of it is down to Samoa, but a lot is down to our own players. Shipping the ball along the line without drawing the man so we just drift to the touch line (same as we did against Arg), choosing to kick in field instead of for touch, passing behind the man thus killing the running line. Basic stuff that (one of which tactical) but really holding us back. No wonder the Samoans were loving it: not stretched, no running lines to pick out, no challenging of line outs. Easy day at the office!

[fa0019]

I heard that garland is taking an active role in this squad. That whilst he's not with the team he passes over instructions to Howley on team selection etc and is on the phone every day. I think it's a bit rash to say this is all howley.

Well done Samoa, they've done great again.... Do these guys know any other way bar full intensity?

One look at gethin and it seems his time is up... No wonder Sheridan is chosen ahead of him... He looks at least 1st overweight and couldn't even match up against guys who had been on the pitch for 60mins. It's the way all props go it seems... They all get bested by someone who was cleaning their boots for them a few years back eventually.

Great prediction warburton... It looks like your 4-0 prediction was on the money!

[Gibson]

I seem to remember Howley being a losing captain as well. goodness knows what he's doing with them...

Apart from everyone blaming Howley, how many of those player actually looked like they had pride in that jersey?? I could only see 1/2p!

Yep. Its not all down to the coach. They fell off and were scared of the Samoans. It was obvious.

Nonsense. At this level you're not scared of other teams. They have no faith in what they're doing. I agree with the fact that they looked like they had no desire but I think it is because they don't believe in the coach

If that perspective makes you happy, then grand.

[eirebilly]

Just like the bleedin Welsh isnt it. Its all about one upmanship over the Irish. We win a GS, hell the Welsh will win two. We have a crappy manager, hell the Welsh will find an even crapprier manager.

Irelands deficiencies will be the death of Welsh rugby

[eirebilly]

Seriously now. Wales have lost but just how good is 1/2p? Personally i would rate him the best 15 in the world right now.

[Guest]

I honestly thopught that Wales would not lose tonight.

I thought Wales was a better team than Samoa. But watching the game Wales did not look like they wanted to play tonight.

Samoa was deffo the better team tonight.

They thought that Samoa would be a push over. So they would save the strength until next week when the All Blacks come to town.

If Wales play like this against the All Blacks. I can see a big disapointment for the Welsh team.

First line was fine, then you let yourself down with some tripe. Wales were out played fair and square, roughed up and made to pay on the score board. Wales did not underestimate, think they'd be a pushover, disrespect, under analyse, racially abuse or any other thing you would like to throw. They just played badly, or worse than their opponents.

Stop trying to pick an Internet fight all of the time .

[Gibson]

Samoa

The passion and skill Samoa bring to international rugby is brilliant. France vs Samoa will be worth a watch. After that result they will be flying!

+1.

That will be one to see.

I'm delighted for Samoa. Not in a WUM way. Just delighted for them.

Id love to see the 2nd World Order turned upside-down. Most all NH International teams are complete and utter shoite to watch(save France). Samoa, are not. Love their self-belief against all the IRB odds.

Ireland & Wales are where they should be. Where they fully deserve to be. On the edge of the Top 8 precipice.

[MrsP]

Samoa

The passion and skill Samoa bring to international rugby is brilliant. France vs Samoa will be worth a watch. After that result they will be flying!

+1.

That will be one to see.

I'm delighted for Samoa. Not in a WUM way. Just delighted for them.

Id love to see the 2nd World Order turned upside-down. Most all NH International teams are complete and utter shoite to watch(save France). They, are not.

They were in the RWC except for about 35 mins!

[Guest]

I heard that garland is taking an active role in this squad. That whilst he's not with the team he passes over instructions to Howley on team selection etc and is on the phone every day. I think it's a bit rash to say this is all howley.

Well done Samoa, they've done great again.... Do these guys know any other way bar full intensity?

One look at gethin and it seems his time is up... No wonder Sheridan is chosen ahead of him... He looks at least 1st overweight and couldn't even match up against guys who had been on the pitch for 60mins. It's the way all props go it seems... They all get bested by someone who was cleaning their boots for them a few years back eventually.

Great prediction warburton... It looks like your 4-0 prediction was on the money!

Don't be a c*ck; it wasn't a prediction by Warburton. It was an aim. Richie McCAw, if asked, would say he would like to win all 4 games, aim for a clean sweep. So would the Argentina captain. Who would actually say "well we will look to lose the 2nd game, win the 3rd and scrape a draw for the 4th"?

[majesticimperialman]

I honestly thopught that Wales would not lose tonight.

I thought Wales was a better team than Samoa. But watching the game Wales did not look like they wanted to play tonight.

Samoa was deffo the better team tonight.

They thought that Samoa would be a push over. So they would save the strength until next week when the All Blacks come to town.

If Wales play like this against the All Blacks. I can see a big disapointment for the Welsh team.

First line was fine, then you let yourself down with some tripe. Wales were out played fair and square, roughed up and made to pay on the score board. Wales did not underestimate, think they'd be a pushover, disrespect, under analyse, racially abuse or any other thing you would like to throw. They just played badly, or worse than their opponents.

Stop trying to pick an Internet fight all of the time .

Griff.

I am not trying to pick an internet fight at all.

Wales in my honest opinion looked as though they did not want be there tonight. They looked to me that they thought it would be easy.

What was the camp in poland suppose to be about. Since they came back this year they have looked very lathargic in my opinionh.

[Gibson]

I honestly thopught that Wales would not lose tonight.

I thought Wales was a better team than Samoa. But watching the game Wales did not look like they wanted to play tonight.

Samoa was deffo the better team tonight.

They thought that Samoa would be a push over. So they would save the strength until next week when the All Blacks come to town.

If Wales play like this against the All Blacks. I can see a big disapointment for the Welsh team.

First line was fine, then you let yourself down with some tripe. Wales were out played fair and square, roughed up and made to pay on the score board. Wales did not underestimate, think they'd be a pushover, disrespect, under analyse, racially abuse or any other thing you would like to throw. They just played badly, or worse than their opponents.

Stop trying to pick an Internet fight all of the time .

Post of the night from Griff.

[123456789]

Samoa

The passion and skill Samoa bring to international rugby is brilliant. France vs Samoa will be worth a watch. After that result they will be flying!

+1.

That will be one to see.

I'm delighted for Samoa. Not in a WUM way. Just delighted for them.

Id love to see the 2nd World Order turned upside-down. Most all NH International teams are complete and utter shoite to watch(save France). Samoa, are not. Love their self-belief against all the IRB odds.

Ireland & Wales are where they should be. Where they fully deserve to be. On the edge of the Top 8 precipice.

This is most probably just me but I actually love the way way the British teams play rugby

[Irishhoneymonster]

Have to say don't think there was too much wrong with the ref in this game. Don't get me wrong both sides were wronged at times but I think it all evened out in the end in that no team got the run of calls. Thought a few dodgy decisions at the breakdown went against Samoa in the first quarter/half but like I say it all evened out IMO.

With regards to Samoa I always expected the physical stuff but have to say was nice to see them show some exceptional handling skills too. Not that they haven't before but they were really great at times in that department today.

IMO for Wales it was a simple lack of physicality, or perhaps better described as intensity (especially at the breakdown) which suggests they didn't want it as much as they should have. This in turn made it very difficult to shine in the backs or open play.

Samoa were the better team and got a well deserved win which could have been in jeopardy because of poor kicks at goal.

Oh and by the way really like Halfpenny and think he is establishing himself as a shoe in for the Lions test team. Only thing that can stop that now is Kearney coming back and being absolutley amazing for Ireland!

[LondonTiger]

I was only able to dip in and out of the game - though timing was good enough to see all but the first try.

From what I saw, Samoa were very good.

[Irishhoneymonster]

Oh and one last thing I hated Davies' biased commentary during the match but have to say he was very humble at the end and gave deserved credit to Samoa!

[Guest]

I honestly thopught that Wales would not lose tonight.

I thought Wales was a better team than Samoa. But watching the game Wales did not look like they wanted to play tonight.

Samoa was deffo the better team tonight.

They thought that Samoa would be a push over. So they would save the strength until next week when the All Blacks come to town.

If Wales play like this against the All Blacks. I can see a big disapointment for the Welsh team.

First line was fine, then you let yourself down with some tripe. Wales were out played fair and square, roughed up and made to pay on the score board. Wales did not underestimate, think they'd be a pushover, disrespect, under analyse, racially abuse or any other thing you would like to throw. They just played badly, or worse than their opponents.

Stop trying to pick an Internet fight all of the time .

Griff.

I am not trying to pick an internet fight at all.

Wales in my honest opinion looked as though they did not want be there tonight. They looked to me that they thought it would be easy.

What was the camp in poland suppose to be about. Since they came back this year they have looked very lathargic in my opinionh.

But that doesn't make sense. When has it ever been easy against Samoa? We've lost to them many times before. This very team had a torrid time last time they played them in the World Cup about a year ago. Your comment is not logical for that reason.

[eirebilly]

Oh and by the way really like Halfpenny and think he is establishing himself as a shoe in for the Lions test team. Only thing that can stop that now is Kearney coming back and being absolutley amazing for Ireland!

Kearney will have to be sublime to oust 1/2p. I cant see a side in the world that would not start 1/2p, including the AB's.

[Gibson]

Have to say don't think there was too much wrong with the ref in this game. Don't get me wrong both sides were wronged at times but I think it all evened out in the end in that no team got the run of calls. Thought a few dodgy decisions at the breakdown went against Samoa in the first quarter/half but like I say it all evened out IMO.

With regards to Samoa I always expected the physical stuff but have to say was nice to see them show some exceptional handling skills too. Not that they haven't before but they were really great at times in that department today.

IMO for Wales it was a simple lack of physicality (especially at the breakdown) which suggests they didn't want it as much as they should have. This in turn made it very difficult to shine in the backs or open play.

Samoa were the better team and got a well deserved win which could have been in jeopardy because of poor kicks at goal.

Oh and by the way really like Halfpenny and think he is establishing himself as a shoe in for the Lions test team. Only thing that can stop that now is Kearney coming back and being absolutley amazing for Ireland!

Totally agree, He stood out and shone through the Welsh mediocrity.
They will both go. Barring injury. Foden now needs to step it up some, to travel

[asoreleftshoulder]

Why is everyone worried about falling out of the top 8 for the World Cup (from a Wales perspective)? W always end up in a group of death anyway, it's just that this time we may be the 'plucky' 3rd team.

Feck, i just spat some beer

Glad I made you laugh! But seriously though, if Samoa get in as the 2nd seeds and we're in as 3rd to the same pool, then what difference does it really make to last year? Same pool, same teams!

You get shafted playing midweek matches with only 4 days rest,I think that's the worst part of being 3rd seeds.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Eirebilly - do you honestly think Halfpenny would start over Dagg for NZ? I would say that is crazy talk, honestly. Dagg is without a doubt head and shoulders above Halfpenny and pretty much every other 15 around right now.

[tecphobe]

my opinion Wales have a lot of great athletes but are lacking in rugby brains. Howley has no coaching pedigree and minimal experience. So once Samoa matched wales physically they had no plan B. Samoa will never be found wanting physically if Biggar had stayed on wales would of won as he would of had the nouce to play the corners a game were Samoa were walking from line out to line-out would of suited Wales perfectly.

[eirebilly]

Eirebilly - do you honestly think Halfpenny would start over Dagg for NZ? I would say that is crazy talk, honestly. Dagg is without a doubt head and shoulders above Halfpenny and pretty much every other 15 around right now.

Rory, yes i do. I honestly feel that 1/2p is the best 15 around right now and a hell of a fall back for a kicking option.

[thebluesmancometh]

Daggs ok but if Carter got injured 1/2p is a shoe in above him IMO.

[Irishhoneymonster]

Oh and by the way really like Halfpenny and think he is establishing himself as a shoe in for the Lions test team. Only thing that can stop that now is Kearney coming back and being absolutley amazing for Ireland!

Kearney will have to be sublime to oust 1/2p. I cant see a side in the world that would not start 1/2p, including the AB's.

Is the definition of "sublime" really that much better than "absolutely amazing" in this context?

[manofgwent]

Where was the welsh game-plan. Where was it last week? You'd think we'd have learned how to play the Islanders by now. We were so loose and played into Samoa's hands. When you think weve only scored a length of the field interception try. We have serious problems controlling a game and you just knew that Priestland would struggle. I thought that in particular, Ryan Jones was awful. He was a liability, we can't get over the gain-line and gave away points with needless penalties. Also, Bradley Davies? What's that about?
You have to question what on earth Rob Howley is doing. We were all taken in by the training camp in Spala. Well we seen to now be struggling towards the ends of games. We can't argue. We lost 3 tries to 1. A well deserved win for Samoa. I hope that Roger ( all is well with welsh rugby) Lewis is sitting a little bit more uncomfortably tonight!

[Sponsored content]