India v England, First Test Thread
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Cricket
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India v England, First Test Thread
First topic message reminder :
India won the toss and are batting.
No surprises with the teams.
India
Gautam Gambhir
Virender Sehwag
Cheteshwar Pujara
Sachin Tendulkar
Virat Kohli
Yuvraj Singh
MS Dhoni
R Ashwin
Zaheer Khan
Pragyan Ojha
Umesh Yadav.
No Monty for England and Compton is having his debut.
Nick Compton
Alastair Cook
Jonathan Trott
Kevin Pietersen
Ian Bell
Samit Patel
Matt Prior
Tim Bresnan
Stuart Broad
Graeme Swann
James Anderson.
The pitch seems dry and should take turn.
India won the toss and are batting.
No surprises with the teams.
India
Gautam Gambhir
Virender Sehwag
Cheteshwar Pujara
Sachin Tendulkar
Virat Kohli
Yuvraj Singh
MS Dhoni
R Ashwin
Zaheer Khan
Pragyan Ojha
Umesh Yadav.
No Monty for England and Compton is having his debut.
Nick Compton
Alastair Cook
Jonathan Trott
Kevin Pietersen
Ian Bell
Samit Patel
Matt Prior
Tim Bresnan
Stuart Broad
Graeme Swann
James Anderson.
The pitch seems dry and should take turn.
msp83- Posts : 16222
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Mad for Chelsea wrote:be patient, slow the s
Agree with that, coring down, wait for Sehwag to do something silly like there, hope next one goes to hand.
maybe give Patel an over before lunch?
Agree, but Patel and Bresnan not helping by bowling a few bad balls,(Patels 1st) think Gambhir will do something stupid first. Need to keep him at bat, a he slows the scoring down slightly, Patel recovered well from a bad first ball. Lunch will help England, if just by giving us a rest. Runs coming slightly to easy, but to be expected with thks pitch. Will be interesting when England final get to bat on it. Lunch India 120-0.
Luke- Posts : 5201
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
120/0 at lunch. Absolutely nothing from England so far. The RR has to come down for England to be able to apply any pressure but that's not happening so far. Patience and stickability is the key.
Duty281- Posts : 34576
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
so that's lunch, great session for India, starting with winning the toss. England have wrestled back a bit of control in the last 9 overs or so, but there's been a lack of worrying moments, only about four that I can remember. Looks like it's going to be a long, long effort for England this. I'm now off to grab a couple of hours sleep before my day starts properly...
Mad for Chelsea- Posts : 12103
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Session:1
Bresnan by his 3rd over on D1 of the first test of a new series..... had dropped to 123 kph .....and if he is the cream of English bowliing worthy for a specialist seamer's slot...it's an embarrasement.
If Finn was injured they had a 90mph Meaker in the ranks...who wasn't picked.
I have said about 10 times on this thread and dozens more on this forum....England's biggest folly is picking bowlers for their batting skills.....call it greed for extra 20 runs or lack of trust in specialist batters and they pay price in blood.
you need eitehr 90mph pace in the air to overcome the slowness off the pitch..or spinners who can rip and flight.....and contrary to the advice of all who know cricket in India.......England leaves Monty out.
there was one that turned and bounced from Swann as a pre-cursor of things to come.
Poor Cook......with one slip within 10 overs......and a field as spread out as in the mid overs of an ODI inning....not an inch ( or even a milimeter) of deviation for his seamers.....no genuine fast bowlers or a proper 2nd spinner in the side.....is already thinking when the declaration will come tomorrow......and muttering under his breath....."Good Timing For the Exit Strauss"
PS* slow over rate and Gambhir's inability to rotate strike meant that Sehwag missded the 100 in first session
Bresnan by his 3rd over on D1 of the first test of a new series..... had dropped to 123 kph .....and if he is the cream of English bowliing worthy for a specialist seamer's slot...it's an embarrasement.
If Finn was injured they had a 90mph Meaker in the ranks...who wasn't picked.
I have said about 10 times on this thread and dozens more on this forum....England's biggest folly is picking bowlers for their batting skills.....call it greed for extra 20 runs or lack of trust in specialist batters and they pay price in blood.
you need eitehr 90mph pace in the air to overcome the slowness off the pitch..or spinners who can rip and flight.....and contrary to the advice of all who know cricket in India.......England leaves Monty out.
there was one that turned and bounced from Swann as a pre-cursor of things to come.
Poor Cook......with one slip within 10 overs......and a field as spread out as in the mid overs of an ODI inning....not an inch ( or even a milimeter) of deviation for his seamers.....no genuine fast bowlers or a proper 2nd spinner in the side.....is already thinking when the declaration will come tomorrow......and muttering under his breath....."Good Timing For the Exit Strauss"
PS* slow over rate and Gambhir's inability to rotate strike meant that Sehwag missded the 100 in first session
KP_fan- Posts : 10604
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
eng start with no slip to their premium seamer anderson......and sehwag puts a knife in that opening
KP_fan- Posts : 10604
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Sehwag continues as he finnished last session, and Gambhir's even scoring quickly, also can't miss chances like that one.'
Luke- Posts : 5201
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Prior under pressure......giving chances to India @ 1 miss per over.
drops sehwag and then misses stumping in the enxt over...ball is turning and bouncing....
drops sehwag and then misses stumping in the enxt over...ball is turning and bouncing....
KP_fan- Posts : 10604
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
At last Gambhir gone, bowled by Swann for 45.
Luke- Posts : 5201
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Swanny!
Prior misses 2 chances and then you think it's gonna be one of them days...till Swanny bowls a corker! Let's get amongst it!
Prior misses 2 chances and then you think it's gonna be one of them days...till Swanny bowls a corker! Let's get amongst it!
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
At last Gambhir gone, bowled by Swann for 45.
Luke- Posts : 5201
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
I thought India were meant to be the most passionate cricket-following nation? England and Australia wouldn't have a stadium half-empty on the first day of a series.
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Duty281 wrote:I thought India were meant to be the most passionate cricket-following nation? England and Australia wouldn't have a stadium half-empty on the first day of a series.
Speaking to a couple of Indians I work with, test cricket is dying in India (as in quite a few other countries), 20/20 has taken over and there are generally full houses at most matches, one days still get decent crowds. Even The Indian commentators are saying that 10000 is a good crowd. To be fair quite a few Indian grounds are massive holding over 35000+, yet another chance goes begging.
Luke- Posts : 5201
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Magnificent 100 by Sehwag, when he bats like this he's a joy to watch.
Luke- Posts : 5201
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Swanny with another wicket, a big one as Sehwag is gone. Pujara and Mr. Overrated at the crease, only Kohli to come. The rest of the order looks as soft as you like.
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
The way this kid Pujara is batting, he could easily move up to open and thus ending Gambhir's charmed stay in their Test side.
Plenty of spin on display now. 3 for Swann.
If the Indians get 450-500 it's pretty much goodnight for England.
Plenty of spin on display now. 3 for Swann.
If the Indians get 450-500 it's pretty much goodnight for England.
Gerry SA- Posts : 2428
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Mr. Overrated is out for 13, unlucky for some, eh Sachin? 3 for Swann, good catch by Patel. 250/3 is a sterling effort on a really flat pitch. Let's get another 3 before stumps!
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Just before the new ball, Swann gets wicket number four. 283/4. What a day for Swann, he's tearing India apart by himself! Now the batting order looks weak, now Swanny can have a dart at Yuvraj!
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
End of Day-1
--1st test match gone for Eng......it's not an easy pitch to bat on,play strokes or even get the ball off the square, and the outfield is heavy giving less value for strokes.....and that's why so many of Sehwag's drives came square and behind square......and that makes Kohli and Yuvraj's straight drives , the shots of the day.
323- 4....means atleast 375 to max 450...and even the lower end is mountain to climb for England.
--and this when the pitch is at it's easiest.....by D3 the pitch would produce hissing Cobras and spitting vipers that will go up and keep down....as evident by many of Swann's deliveries.
--Anderson's dropped catch at mid-on was comic and Montesque......and Anderson continues to drop dollies almost at the rate of 1 per inning
--and Trott's claimed catch at slip, picked clearly off the ground looked like an attempt to cheat by the daylight.....but in fact was a measure of England's desperation.
--Pujara's dance down the pitch to cover drive Swann and rock back to cut against the spin few times is pure class......remniscent of VVSL's and Azhar's artistry.....
--Lion Hearted effort from Swann....deserves a big applause .....in a defensive minded team and against some very good quality players of spin.
--That spinners bowled more than half the overs in the day.....and that Swann was forced to bowl 33 overs...and that inspite of a pace heayy attack England not claim the second new ball when due.....are all admissions of the glaring mistake of leaving out Monty.
--I still believe England can compete later in remainder test matches of the series if they pick bowlers on merit with the intent of taking wickets viz. Finn, Meaker, Monty and Swann.....and with the luck of toss-win and not dropping sitters...they can stretch India to a close finish.
--1st test match gone for Eng......it's not an easy pitch to bat on,play strokes or even get the ball off the square, and the outfield is heavy giving less value for strokes.....and that's why so many of Sehwag's drives came square and behind square......and that makes Kohli and Yuvraj's straight drives , the shots of the day.
323- 4....means atleast 375 to max 450...and even the lower end is mountain to climb for England.
--and this when the pitch is at it's easiest.....by D3 the pitch would produce hissing Cobras and spitting vipers that will go up and keep down....as evident by many of Swann's deliveries.
--Anderson's dropped catch at mid-on was comic and Montesque......and Anderson continues to drop dollies almost at the rate of 1 per inning
--and Trott's claimed catch at slip, picked clearly off the ground looked like an attempt to cheat by the daylight.....but in fact was a measure of England's desperation.
--Pujara's dance down the pitch to cover drive Swann and rock back to cut against the spin few times is pure class......remniscent of VVSL's and Azhar's artistry.....
--Lion Hearted effort from Swann....deserves a big applause .....in a defensive minded team and against some very good quality players of spin.
--That spinners bowled more than half the overs in the day.....and that Swann was forced to bowl 33 overs...and that inspite of a pace heayy attack England not claim the second new ball when due.....are all admissions of the glaring mistake of leaving out Monty.
--I still believe England can compete later in remainder test matches of the series if they pick bowlers on merit with the intent of taking wickets viz. Finn, Meaker, Monty and Swann.....and with the luck of toss-win and not dropping sitters...they can stretch India to a close finish.
KP_fan- Posts : 10604
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Mixed day for England. Very poor in the field once again, do not know how their fielding has depleted as much as it has done in the last 12 months or so. The pitch is a dream to bat on, nothing in it for the seamers but a little bit of turn to keep the spinners interested.
If you are watchful however, big runs are on offer. If England can bowl India out for under 420 and then try and post close to 500 then they have a chance. Go into their second innings 100+ behind on a pitch which will be turning from all angles, I can't see any other result than an indian victory. Early days, but tomorrow's morning session will be crucial.
If you are watchful however, big runs are on offer. If England can bowl India out for under 420 and then try and post close to 500 then they have a chance. Go into their second innings 100+ behind on a pitch which will be turning from all angles, I can't see any other result than an indian victory. Early days, but tomorrow's morning session will be crucial.
Liam- Posts : 3574
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Only saw a few overs after lunch...good toss to win. Sehwag had one of his very good days , Pujara has obviously played very well.
England need to nip a couple out with the new ball tomorrow and try to keep the innings from getting right away ...ball probably will be doing plenty some time on third day so the quicker they can get in and start chasing down whatever score India make the better.
Really no reason England can't make plenty of runs too on this unless they let their mental issues against spin take over.
India will sleep better but it is far to early to get rattled.
England need to nip a couple out with the new ball tomorrow and try to keep the innings from getting right away ...ball probably will be doing plenty some time on third day so the quicker they can get in and start chasing down whatever score India make the better.
Really no reason England can't make plenty of runs too on this unless they let their mental issues against spin take over.
India will sleep better but it is far to early to get rattled.
alfie- Posts : 21909
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
First day belongs marginally to India. They'll be happy with 323 runs on the board and a platform with which to get 500+, whilst England will be happy that India haven't run away with it.
The first session was a pulverising by India, 120/0. Sehwag did most of the damage and it left England fans fearing the worst as the wicket looked absolutely dead, hardly any bounce and certainly no swing or seam.
Fortunately, England happen to have the best spinner in the World with them, Graeme Swann. He did brilliantly to spin England back into contention reducing India, single-handedly I might add, to 250/3 at tea.
Swanny also added one more in an even final session, where the runs dried up. Pujara did well to stick out that session and Yuvraj offered able support. 323/4 at stumps.
England would dearly love to bowl India out for below 450, where the English batsmen would be able to acheive parity, or near-parity with India's score. Remember, Ashwin and Ojha don't have the ability that Swann has, the ball won't be turning as much. If England can achieve near-parity with India after the first innings, then Swann and co. will be able to heap the pressure on during the 4th day with India at a dead end. Victory is certainly not out of the question for England in this Test Match.
As for what India want to do, it's simple. Make 500+, and pile the pressure on, on a crumbling pitch.
KP_fan - "1st test match gone for Eng"
The first session was a pulverising by India, 120/0. Sehwag did most of the damage and it left England fans fearing the worst as the wicket looked absolutely dead, hardly any bounce and certainly no swing or seam.
Fortunately, England happen to have the best spinner in the World with them, Graeme Swann. He did brilliantly to spin England back into contention reducing India, single-handedly I might add, to 250/3 at tea.
Swanny also added one more in an even final session, where the runs dried up. Pujara did well to stick out that session and Yuvraj offered able support. 323/4 at stumps.
England would dearly love to bowl India out for below 450, where the English batsmen would be able to acheive parity, or near-parity with India's score. Remember, Ashwin and Ojha don't have the ability that Swann has, the ball won't be turning as much. If England can achieve near-parity with India after the first innings, then Swann and co. will be able to heap the pressure on during the 4th day with India at a dead end. Victory is certainly not out of the question for England in this Test Match.
As for what India want to do, it's simple. Make 500+, and pile the pressure on, on a crumbling pitch.
KP_fan - "1st test match gone for Eng"
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
India's day. Expect them to push on to 500+ tomorrow as we have no answer to Dhoni in India. Then think we will struggle with the bat lacking the patience and technique to survive.
Not an entertaining day's cricket though, no wonder Tests are dying out in India. At the same time we have a Test in Bangladesh on a similar pitch. Even in England Lord's and The Oval have produced many shockers. Sorry but I just don't enjoy cricket on dead pitches.
Not an entertaining day's cricket though, no wonder Tests are dying out in India. At the same time we have a Test in Bangladesh on a similar pitch. Even in England Lord's and The Oval have produced many shockers. Sorry but I just don't enjoy cricket on dead pitches.
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Duty281 wrote: KP_fan - "1st test match gone for Eng"
Byond an Iota of doubt.....
gone past even where they can be competitive...
a good measure is Eng's win fetches you 10 times more return than an India win on bet365.
If I was Eng coach...I would set them realitsic targets like....
cross 200 in each inning...[ with the way pitch has deterioated already on D1, it would be hugely creditable if Eng cross 200 in each inning]
get practise against real spinners on real pitches that Eng camp has lamented the lack of all throuhg the build up.......
all's not lost there are 3 more tests to go
But If I were England coach I won't be in this position...... won't have the agenda to force Bresnan and Broad type medium pacers.....and Keep Monty ans 90mph pacers out.
Last edited by KP_fan on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:58 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
India's day.
Looking back, I think guys like Dravid and to be fair, KPF here, got it right on Panesar. The England seamers looked outclassed, and Bresnan looked pretty much average. An Anderson can be picked even on his 75 %, but not Tim B, he has to be at his absolute best to be selected. His pace was down, and offered far too many hit me balls. Broad bowled well with the new ball and the 2nd spel was decent, but not much after that. Anderson had a poor day in the field and his bowling didn't look dangerous.
Graeme Swann had a superb day, he managed to beat Sachin Tendulkar in the flight, not even Shane Warne managed to do that often. It was the turn that defeated Virender Sehwag, although he had advanced down the track. It was a good ball that got Gambhir, one of the best Indian players against spin.
Samit Patel has to get a lot of credit. He's no Monty, but he held one end up and bowled 4 more overs than Bresnan managed and gave away only 39 runs in his 14 overs, going for under 3. Bresnan on the other hand went for 56 in his 10 overs.
Looking back, I think guys like Dravid and to be fair, KPF here, got it right on Panesar. The England seamers looked outclassed, and Bresnan looked pretty much average. An Anderson can be picked even on his 75 %, but not Tim B, he has to be at his absolute best to be selected. His pace was down, and offered far too many hit me balls. Broad bowled well with the new ball and the 2nd spel was decent, but not much after that. Anderson had a poor day in the field and his bowling didn't look dangerous.
Graeme Swann had a superb day, he managed to beat Sachin Tendulkar in the flight, not even Shane Warne managed to do that often. It was the turn that defeated Virender Sehwag, although he had advanced down the track. It was a good ball that got Gambhir, one of the best Indian players against spin.
Samit Patel has to get a lot of credit. He's no Monty, but he held one end up and bowled 4 more overs than Bresnan managed and gave away only 39 runs in his 14 overs, going for under 3. Bresnan on the other hand went for 56 in his 10 overs.
msp83- Posts : 16222
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
KP_fan wrote:Duty281 wrote: KP_fan - "1st test match gone for Eng"
Byond an Iota of doubt.....
gone past even where they can be competitive...
a good measure is Eng's win fetches you 10 times more return than an India win on bet365.
If I was Eng coach...I would set them realitsic targets like....
cross 200 in each inning...[ with the way pitch has deterioated already on D1, it would be hugely creditable if Eng cross 200 in each inning]
get practise against real spinners on real pitches that Eng camp has lamented the lack of all throuhg the build up.......
But If I were England coach I won't be in this position...... won't have the agenda to force Bresnan and Broad type medium pacers.....and Keep Monty ans 90mph pacers out.
Ah, BET365, that bastion of cricket knowledge. Anyways, the pitch hasn't deteriorated, it's as flat as a pancake. Swann is getting it to spin cause he's the World's best spinner. I wouldn't worry about England getting practice against real spinners, they won't be playing any on this tour.
Duty281- Posts : 34576
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Duty281 wrote:KP_fan wrote:Duty281 wrote: KP_fan - "1st test match gone for Eng"
Byond an Iota of doubt.....
gone past even where they can be competitive...
a good measure is Eng's win fetches you 10 times more return than an India win on bet365.
If I was Eng coach...I would set them realitsic targets like....
cross 200 in each inning...[ with the way pitch has deterioated already on D1, it would be hugely creditable if Eng cross 200 in each inning]
get practise against real spinners on real pitches that Eng camp has lamented the lack of all throuhg the build up.......
But If I were England coach I won't be in this position...... won't have the agenda to force Bresnan and Broad type medium pacers.....and Keep Monty ans 90mph pacers out.
Ah, BET365, that bastion of cricket knowledge. Anyways, the pitch hasn't deteriorated, it's as flat as a pancake. Swann is getting it to spin cause he's the World's best spinner. I wouldn't worry about England getting practice against real spinners, they won't be playing any on this tour.
OK...if you say so.
somehere in the other thread also I suggested....when opinions are radically diffrent....results are the judge.
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Certainly Bresnan didn't have a good day. So KPF is of course delighted and taking the opportunity for some crowing...only day one though. It may appear from that that Panesar should have played , but (a) I am sure they were not planning for Tim B to have a bad day , and (b) No guarantee that having Monty bowl a lot of overs would have brought wickets , though I suspect he may have held the run rate down a little. It is my feeling that Swann actually bowls better when Monty isn't playing , whatever he may say about enjoying the partnership etc , and it may well have just meant a different distribution of the same four wickets...we can never know for sure.
What we do know is Patel has been picked as a batsman , and if he performs in that role I won't have any problem with the selection for this match.
Will worry about the next one in due course.
What we do know is Patel has been picked as a batsman , and if he performs in that role I won't have any problem with the selection for this match.
Will worry about the next one in due course.
alfie- Posts : 21909
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Now as far as the Indian batting goes, it overall was a pretty good day. Sehwag played a superb innings. The best thing about this innings was that Sehwag showed great restraint during this knock, although his overall strike rate was hundred. He was 7 of 14, 19 of 21. He showed respect to Swann during much of the innings and the result was a fabulous ton. One can only hope he takes the right lesson from this.
A bit disappointed with Gambhir's performance. Got a start, and even a life in between, but again couldn't convert it into a big score, although he did a decent job by seeing the side through the first session.
Pujara's effort so far has been a class act. I think he played Swann even better than Sehwag managed. he was never flustered, but managed to play some real classy shots. Hopes he turns this into a dady hundred.
Sachin Tendulkar made only 13, but I must say I am relieved. He didn't bogged down or looked slow and clumsy with the bat. There was a refreshing positivity about his batting. When he rediscovered himself in Australia in 2008, it was this attitude that was the standout. Of course he got out to a good ball and didn't score much, but I am really convinced a biggy is round the corner.
Virat Kohli again didn't make a substantial score, but his temprament was good. Unlike a Raina or Rohit Sharma, he didn't panick when he went scoreless for a long time. He was willing to try and take his time, although it didn't come off in the end, good signs for the future.
Yuvraj has looked good in the middle, I hope he gets a good score here, and then take that confidence to the bowling crease as well.
A bit disappointed with Gambhir's performance. Got a start, and even a life in between, but again couldn't convert it into a big score, although he did a decent job by seeing the side through the first session.
Pujara's effort so far has been a class act. I think he played Swann even better than Sehwag managed. he was never flustered, but managed to play some real classy shots. Hopes he turns this into a dady hundred.
Sachin Tendulkar made only 13, but I must say I am relieved. He didn't bogged down or looked slow and clumsy with the bat. There was a refreshing positivity about his batting. When he rediscovered himself in Australia in 2008, it was this attitude that was the standout. Of course he got out to a good ball and didn't score much, but I am really convinced a biggy is round the corner.
Virat Kohli again didn't make a substantial score, but his temprament was good. Unlike a Raina or Rohit Sharma, he didn't panick when he went scoreless for a long time. He was willing to try and take his time, although it didn't come off in the end, good signs for the future.
Yuvraj has looked good in the middle, I hope he gets a good score here, and then take that confidence to the bowling crease as well.
msp83- Posts : 16222
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Boycott hits the nail on the head......Eng keep going around in circles making the same mistake.
somebody should email ( or Twitter because that's what English dressing room prefers) the Einstien quote to Flower
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results--Einstien
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/20312633
Geoffrey Boycott, BBC Test Match Special
"With selection, we did the same in the UAE - left Monty Panesar out of the first Test match and didn't have the ammunition to fire teams out. Unless you can bowl at the pace of Michael Holding, Malcolm Marshall, Wasim Akram or Waqar Younis, if you're only fast-medium the conditions almost cut you down to medium. Look at what teams play in their own country - India only ever play two seamers here. Samit's a lovely little cricketer, he bats and bowls a bit and does well in one-day cricket, but you've got to pick bowlers who can take wickets. I like Pujara, he's got a high left elbow like Barry Richards and plays very straight
somebody should email ( or Twitter because that's what English dressing room prefers) the Einstien quote to Flower
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results--Einstien
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/20312633
Geoffrey Boycott, BBC Test Match Special
"With selection, we did the same in the UAE - left Monty Panesar out of the first Test match and didn't have the ammunition to fire teams out. Unless you can bowl at the pace of Michael Holding, Malcolm Marshall, Wasim Akram or Waqar Younis, if you're only fast-medium the conditions almost cut you down to medium. Look at what teams play in their own country - India only ever play two seamers here. Samit's a lovely little cricketer, he bats and bowls a bit and does well in one-day cricket, but you've got to pick bowlers who can take wickets. I like Pujara, he's got a high left elbow like Barry Richards and plays very straight
KP_fan- Posts : 10604
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: India v England, First Test Thread
KP_fan wrote:Boycott hits the nail on the head......Eng keep going around in circles making the same mistake.
somebody should email ( or Twitter because that's what English dressing room prefers) the Einstien quote to Flower
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results--Einstien
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/20312633
Geoffrey Boycott, BBC Test Match Special
"With selection, we did the same in the UAE - left Monty Panesar out of the first Test match and didn't have the ammunition to fire teams out. Unless you can bowl at the pace of Michael Holding, Malcolm Marshall, Wasim Akram or Waqar Younis, if you're only fast-medium the conditions almost cut you down to medium. Look at what teams play in their own country - India only ever play two seamers here. Samit's a lovely little cricketer, he bats and bowls a bit and does well in one-day cricket, but you've got to pick bowlers who can take wickets. I like Pujara, he's got a high left elbow like Barry Richards and plays very straight
Hindsight is a lovely thing isn't it Geoffrey?
Duty281- Posts : 34576
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Not a great example from Boycott is it? That first Test weren't we 50-5 on the first morning? Doubt Monty could have done much about that.
Why not use the following Sri Lanka series as an example? Monty played in the Test we lost and not in the one we won. So was team selection wrong then?
Its all hindsight as Duty says.
Why not use the following Sri Lanka series as an example? Monty played in the Test we lost and not in the one we won. So was team selection wrong then?
Its all hindsight as Duty says.
VTR- Posts : 5060
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
KP_fan wrote:Boycott hits the nail on the head......Eng keep going around in circles making the same mistake.
somebody should email ( or Twitter because that's what English dressing room prefers) the Einstien quote to Flower
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results--Einstien
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/20312633
Geoffrey Boycott, BBC Test Match Special
"With selection, we did the same in the UAE - left Monty Panesar out of the first Test match and didn't have the ammunition to fire teams out. Unless you can bowl at the pace of Michael Holding, Malcolm Marshall, Wasim Akram or Waqar Younis, if you're only fast-medium the conditions almost cut you down to medium. Look at what teams play in their own country - India only ever play two seamers here. Samit's a lovely little cricketer, he bats and bowls a bit and does well in one-day cricket, but you've got to pick bowlers who can take wickets. I like Pujara, he's got a high left elbow like Barry Richards and plays very straight
Exactly. We have played Swann and Monty in tandem in 7 Tests and haven't won a single one. The only Test that we won last winter was in SL when we played 3 seamers plus Swann and Patel. Go figure.
ShankyCricket- Posts : 4546
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Panesar a vastly superior bowler today than he was yesterday. If he never plays again he'll go down as one of the greats.
ShankyCricket- Posts : 4546
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
I don't think its a question of hindsight alone. Many had called for including Panesar, perhaps as the 5th bowler, or as the 2nd spinner in a 4 man attack. There was particular strength to the case as Steven Finn was unavailable. Tim Bresnan's summer test form against SA and his performances in the T-20 WC hinted at a loss of the potency. Although he did pick up a few wickets against mediocre oppositions in the warm up games he never ran through any of those lineups and Panaser also didn't bowl badly in any of those matches.
England's reasons for going with Bresnan over Panesar are understandable, and I don't think they are in a position to think in terms of playing 5 bowlers. But the idea of Panesar playing over Bresnan wasn't a ridiculous idea to start with, and its not one at this stage either.
England's reasons for going with Bresnan over Panesar are understandable, and I don't think they are in a position to think in terms of playing 5 bowlers. But the idea of Panesar playing over Bresnan wasn't a ridiculous idea to start with, and its not one at this stage either.
msp83- Posts : 16222
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
England's fielding remained a major worry on the first day. It has been a continuation of some terrible patterns set during the English summer where they dropped a number of chances against both West Indies and South Africa. Today, Matt Prior dropped a catch of Sehwag and missed a stumping of Gambhir. Prior's keeping, particularly to the seamers had become pretty sharp over the last few seasons, but this was a pretty average display from him. James Anderson was taken out of slips mostly because it was seemingly felt that he needed a bit more time to collect himself after bowling, but his drop of Pujara in the circle was pretty poor and very costly already.
Jonathan Trott's drop of Kohli was poor, but poorer was his effort to claim the catch after roling the ball on the ground. Paul Collingwood on commentary said he must have known it had gone to ground. I remember some of the reactions after AB de Villiers had aclaimed a catch in England in 2008 after the ball seemgly touched the ground.
Anyways it just passed off lightly, and think fair enough.
Jonathan Trott's drop of Kohli was poor, but poorer was his effort to claim the catch after roling the ball on the ground. Paul Collingwood on commentary said he must have known it had gone to ground. I remember some of the reactions after AB de Villiers had aclaimed a catch in England in 2008 after the ball seemgly touched the ground.
Anyways it just passed off lightly, and think fair enough.
msp83- Posts : 16222
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Overall, India's day. They'll be somewhat disappointed not to be somewhere near 400 after scoring so many runs in the first half of the day, but have only lost four wickets and have plenty more batting to come. I was very pleased with what I saw from Sehwag - gone was the ego-driven recent tendency to try and take 12 from the first over; he batted sensibly in the first 10 and then cashed in when conditions were at their very best. Nice stuff from Pujara too who looks increasingly impressive.
From England's point of view they can be pleased that they've started to make some inroads, but probably needed one of Yuvraj and Pujara out and a night-watchman in to give them any claims to a share of the spoils. Generally, I'd argue that on a pitch offering a lot for the spinners (more than was offered in the UAE last year, but perhaps this pitch is in that range) you want to play both Monty and Swann. Ideally that should be as part of a 5 man attack (I don't like the look of England teams with two seamers). But I can completely understand why they didn't - plan A has one spinner, and they would have wanted to start the series to plan - had this been the second Test following a defeat I can see that both spinners might have played.
From England's point of view they can be pleased that they've started to make some inroads, but probably needed one of Yuvraj and Pujara out and a night-watchman in to give them any claims to a share of the spoils. Generally, I'd argue that on a pitch offering a lot for the spinners (more than was offered in the UAE last year, but perhaps this pitch is in that range) you want to play both Monty and Swann. Ideally that should be as part of a 5 man attack (I don't like the look of England teams with two seamers). But I can completely understand why they didn't - plan A has one spinner, and they would have wanted to start the series to plan - had this been the second Test following a defeat I can see that both spinners might have played.
Shelsey93- Posts : 3134
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Rarely would the Indian team feel optimism, joy and excitment at an oppostion bowler given them a torrid time and running throuhg their line-up....as they would have today........at Swann's display.
it's ironcial....but with every ugly square turner, jumping or squatting delivey off the pitch that Swann delivered and wickets he picked...the Indians were rejoicing more than the English....for it's only D1......and they have enouhg runs in the bag already.....and they have 2 spinners to bowl last...against the most self-doubting team vs. spin bowling
it's ironcial....but with every ugly square turner, jumping or squatting delivey off the pitch that Swann delivered and wickets he picked...the Indians were rejoicing more than the English....for it's only D1......and they have enouhg runs in the bag already.....and they have 2 spinners to bowl last...against the most self-doubting team vs. spin bowling
KP_fan- Posts : 10604
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
I do worry about how England win from here. They may already realistically be chasing the draw.
Shelsey93- Posts : 3134
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Games can and have been lost from a strong position on Day 1. Remember the first day of the SA series in the summer and how that match turned out?
Of course I don't expect such a turnaround here, but you never know. Would definitely take a draw from here at this stage.
Of course I don't expect such a turnaround here, but you never know. Would definitely take a draw from here at this stage.
VTR- Posts : 5060
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Possible butwould be extraordiarily unlikely.
We'd have to bowl them out for >450, make 600 ourselves and then skittle India again, or potentially leave ourselves with a tricky run chase.
We'd have to bowl them out for >450, make 600 ourselves and then skittle India again, or potentially leave ourselves with a tricky run chase.
Shelsey93- Posts : 3134
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
I can't see it happening! But it is only Day 1 of the series. Realistically I'd be looking at us to get out of this one without a defeat and then hope we get Finn back for the Second Test to give us a bit of firepower on these flat decks.
VTR- Posts : 5060
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
VTR wrote:I can't see it happening! But it is only Day 1 of the series. Realistically I'd be looking at us to get out of this one without a defeat and then hope we get Finn back for the Second Test to give us a bit of firepower on these flat decks.
Exactly what I'm looking for as well VTR. The main question I want answered is: Can England bat for five sessions? Do that in the first innings and the Indians will be under pressure. But before that, we need to bowl India out for under 450 and, with the newish ball, I think we'll do just that.
Duty281- Posts : 34576
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
India might struggle to cross 400...
I am watching in 2D on TV...so I can't say for sure........but I get the feeling that the pitch is turning into powder very fast.....a bit of pitch is disntegrating every over.......and getting anotehr 80 runs may be dificult...and Swann might finish with about 8 wickets
I see both first innings might be finished tomorrow
I am watching in 2D on TV...so I can't say for sure........but I get the feeling that the pitch is turning into powder very fast.....a bit of pitch is disntegrating every over.......and getting anotehr 80 runs may be dificult...and Swann might finish with about 8 wickets
I see both first innings might be finished tomorrow
KP_fan- Posts : 10604
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Well, we have to do a lot better on day two - that's for sure.
Another poor day tomorrow and this Test will be close to being lost. As the Tests are so concentrated with each one quickly following the other, I really fear for the series if India take the initiative so soon. Once momentum has been gained, I don't see it being easily given up.
Although not unrealistic, the above is still the worst case scenario. If we are to stop it happening, the improvements need to start without delay ....
Another poor day tomorrow and this Test will be close to being lost. As the Tests are so concentrated with each one quickly following the other, I really fear for the series if India take the initiative so soon. Once momentum has been gained, I don't see it being easily given up.
Although not unrealistic, the above is still the worst case scenario. If we are to stop it happening, the improvements need to start without delay ....
guildfordbat- Posts : 16889
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
KP_fan wrote:India might struggle to cross 400...
I am watching in 2D on TV...so I can't say for sure........but I get the feeling that the pitch is turning into powder very fast.....a bit of pitch is disntegrating every over.......and getting anotehr 80 runs may be dificult...and Swann might finish with about 8 wickets
I see both first innings might be finished tomorrow
Whilst youre obviously exaggerating the simple fact is this match was lost on the toss. It doesnt really do much service to cricket when pitches are over prepared to go one way. Whoever batted first on this was at a big advantage, whilst it may hold up long enough for england to post some kind of first innings it wouldve taken and almighty willyup for India to have been in trouble in this match once the toss was won.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:KP_fan wrote:India might struggle to cross 400...
I am watching in 2D on TV...so I can't say for sure........but I get the feeling that the pitch is turning into powder very fast.....a bit of pitch is disntegrating every over.......and getting anotehr 80 runs may be dificult...and Swann might finish with about 8 wickets
I see both first innings might be finished tomorrow
Whilst youre obviously exaggerating the simple fact is this match was lost on the toss. It doesnt really do much service to cricket when pitches are over prepared to go one way. Whoever batted first on this was at a big advantage, whilst it may hold up long enough for england to post some kind of first innings it wouldve taken and almighty willyup for India to have been in trouble in this match once the toss was won.
when we don't see something extreme that anotehr person does......it seems exaggerated until the event occurs.
That said it's no guarantee that I am right.....just an observation from a distance watching the behaviour of the ball off the pitch change every half hour
Regarding Toss-----match would have been closer if England had won the toss...and even closer if they played Finn-Meaker& Montry.......I think....and not a one inning type margin that it seems to be headed towards.
However Eng would have still lost narrowly........there is a huge diffrence between the inherent abilty of both team to use such pitches with bat and ball.
They have 3 more tests to prove me wrong though....win 3 tosses and take the series Eng..piece of cake
and that's how India has lost just one series ( that to to No.1 aussies in 2005) in last 16 years.....by simply not losing tosses
KP_fan- Posts : 10604
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
... the simple fact is this match was lost on the toss.
So we needn't worry about the dropped catches?
guildfordbat- Posts : 16889
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Swann with the first over of the day, good move this from England and very nearly gets Yuvraj, a very close call for LBW, seems like everyone else other than the umpire was convinced. Lucky there, Yuvraj.
msp83- Posts : 16222
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Going to be Broad from the other end.
msp83- Posts : 16222
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Re: India v England, First Test Thread
Not very impressive from Cook. Dada Sourav was saying it on commentary, too many fielders in the deep for a batsman not out on 98 and restarting on a new day. And the first ball that Pujara could play, he gets an easy single.
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