England v SA - KO 14:30 Sat 24th NOV at HQ - Match Thread/Build Up etc....

[HERSH]

Feel free to discuss this game and any other aspect involving the England Rugby team good or bad as your opinions count and you won't be judged (by me) if you go against England, but do try to give a reason!

Please respect other posters opinions

Game 1: Eng v Fiji 54-12 World class performance.
Game 2: Eng v Aus 14-20 We was robbed, by ourselves.
Game 3: Eng v SA ??-??
Game 4: Eng v NZ ??-??

England team to face South Africa:

Alex Goode (Saracens, 4 caps);
Chris Ashton (Saracens, 27 caps),
Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 15 caps),
Brad Barritt (Saracens, 9 caps),
Mike Brown (Harlequins, 9 caps);
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 52 caps),
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps);
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish, 16 caps),
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps),
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 33 caps),
Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 2 caps),
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 10 caps),
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 11 caps),
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 10 caps),
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 7 caps).

Replacements: David Paice (London Irish, 4 caps), David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 21 caps), Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 2 caps), Mouritz Botha (Saracens, 9 caps), James Haskell (London Wasps, 43 caps), Danny Care (Harlequins, 35 caps), Owen Farrell (Saracens, 10 caps), Jonathan Joseph (London Irish, 3 caps).


South Africa team:
Z Kirchner (Blue Bulls);
JP Pietersen (Sharks),
J de Jongh (Western Province),
J de Villiers (Western Province, captain),
F Hougaard (Blue Bulls);
P Lambie (Sharks),
R Pienaar (Ulster);
G Steenkamp (Toulouse),
A Strauss (Cheetahs),
J du Plessis (Sharks),
E Etzebeth (Western Province),
J Kruger (Blue Bulls),
F Louw (Bath),
W Alberts (Sharks),
D Vermeulen (Western Province).

Replacements: S Brits (Saracens), H van der Merwe (Leinster), P Cilliers (Western Province), F van der Merwe (Blue Bulls), M Coetzee (Sharks), E Jantjies (Golden Lions), J Taute (Golden Lions), L Mvovo (Sharks).

[sickofwendy]

If we match them physically and can break the gain line a close win.

[Jimpy]

Jumping the gun a bit with this one aren't we?

[GoodinTightSpaces]

maybe you should start the Eng NZ thread now while you are at it

[Effervescing Elephant]

Who's first up in the 6 nations Hersh, maybe you should start that one now as well.

[HERSH]

I was going to start a 2015 RWC final thread but I thought that might be pushing it.

[Effervescing Elephant]

[thebluesmancometh]

Typical arrogance from the HERSH, overlook Aus and move on to SA.

[HERSH]

Hardly Blue, the Eng v Aus thread was getting bogged down by SA talk, it seemed a logical thing to do as it isn't that far away.

How is Wales AI's going so far, have you made some progress up the IRB rankings yet?

[thebluesmancometh]

And HERSH's colours well and truly shown!!!

WUMtastic!

[HERSH]

Maybe you should start a Wales v NZ thread I'm sure there be lots to discuss about that fixture, who knows maybe this year is the year you might beat them seeing as you’re the BEST team in the NH (on your day )

[RubyGuby]

Maybe you should start a Wales v NZ thread I'm sure there be lots to discuss about that fixture, who knows maybe this year is the year you might beat them seeing as you’re the BEST team in the NH (on your day )

Sounds like you've got the 2013 GS DVD ready again Hersh

[gregortree]

sorry Biltong, I must have inadvertently tipped off Hersh, now he has beaten us to it. I'm expecting Hersh's 6N 2013 thread to kick off any minute now.

[RubyGuby]

Gregor Just before Hershy posts off the 2013 6 Nations scores I've copied in the latest odds from Paddy Power - It should add some fury to his already burning bright fire


Six Nations Winner 2013 - PADDY POWER

Results
Calculator
Markets Offered

Outright Betting

Grand Slam Winner
Triple Crown Winner
Six Nations Winner 2013
Saturday 2nd February 2013, 13:30

Outright Betting

France 9/4
Wales 9/4

England 5/2
Ireland 5/1

Scotland 22/1
Italy 50/1

[gregortree]

Ruby, thanks mate,
that looks like a great England price. I'm not a betting man, but guys, fill your boots before England price gets shorter by 4.30pm Saturday !
Hersh may want some at that price.

PS Ruby, What price on England for the 2015 RW Cup ?

[RubyGuby]

I think the bookies have stopped taking bets on England for the 2015 RWC mate and the 2013 GS DVD is currently being prepared, have a look for the Sony guys on the weekend as they are already gathering the material.

[HERSH]

5/2

I'll have some of that cheers buddy.

[RubyGuby]

Get in there Hersh

[gregortree]

Ruby
thanks
BTW, PADDY POWER are robbing your Welsh compatriots of their hard earned. I'll try and get that Sony 2013 vid you mention, jump to the result, and get one over on the bookies before they notice.

[RubyGuby]

You get that DVD to me ASAP Greg as it will look good alongside the England 2011 GS DVD

[gregortree]

hope you didn't use the 2011 DVD to make your bets Ruby !

[Taylorman]

Can't really see SA winning this. Through injury, trying new combinations and showing little with the ball they are getting they're in survival mode. England are primed to pounce on this one.

Possession and territory are a myth in todays game. Scotland dominated both against the ABs but did little with it. So did SA vs Ireland.

In todays game linebreaks is king.

[gregortree]

Sorry guys, mea culpa, as I've added to it, but let's get back to the Oz match first.
See you back here next week.

[HERSH]

Surely England should beat this SA team?

Message to Robshaw and our silly scrum half's stop taking quick tap and goes when positioned directly in front of goal.

Message to Flood start acting like you're in control grab the ball off Care and Youngs when the Ref gives a penalty.

[AlastairW]

Let's hope we can take a page from the Aussy play book and bounce back after a defeat and don't let it get to us.

Good luck England!

[Guest]

I'm going for an England win by 5 points. Nothing more than gut instinct and the thought that Ireland were very close, but England might have the extra bit of grunt and brute force to score the extra points.

Good luck England.

[yappysnap]

I went with SA by 10.

They're not playing particularly well either and I just think seeing that Red Rose will bring out some of the best (or beast) in them.

England need to get in the lead early if we're to stand a chance, we can not play catch up rugby.

[EnglishReign]

Well I got the Aus game horribly wrong. I think we'll lose this one, SA will just be too strong for us.

[BristolDave]

Whilst I think SA will win by a score or so I hope England start better than yesterday otherwise it could get messy. A victory for England would be huge for WC ranking points etc, but i also want to see an improved all round performance that we start to build on. 2 years ago we all thought after the Aus match that it was going to lead to a new dawn but idea got crushed the following week. In 3 years time we may well be in the second group of seeds for the WC , however we could also be the best team in the world then and everyone else would be worried about playing us (unlikely I know at present)

[Biltong]

This match up is going to be very interesting.

The first question is who will Heyneke Meyer select as his props.

CJ v d Linde is absolutely useless, goodness alone knows why he is in the squad, he gave away 4 dropped scrums in succession before he managed to stay up in one.

Hopefully Meyer will now call for reinforcements from SA, JC v Rensburg looked good in the Currie Cup and is certainly a helluva lot better than CJ.

The next question is who will Meyer select at 10, I have a sneaky suspicion he is going to recall Morne Steyn, which immediately proves that the old kick and chase game will be the only gameplan from SA.

England looked industrious against Australia even though they didn't manage to get the tries they could have gotten due to errors, decision making and the defence of Australia.

I disagree with Taylorman about he cannot see SA win this one. We have had the measure of England for some time now, they play mostly the same style as us, but we have been doing it better than them for the last 4 to 5 years.

For Meyer this is an important match to win, so I doubt his players will be slack.

Territory is most important and then defence, possession has proven not to be the most important aspect thus far, yes offloads are important and so are players with vision, I think neither SA or England can be accused of having much of that in stock.

[Barney McGrew did it]

SA by 10+. They just know how to play us. And they're better than the current England. SA will hit us hard in the 1st 20; and England take 20 to warm up; by which time we're chasing the game.

If we could get a Corbs/Hartley/Cole FR, and a Lawes/ANother SR, and a Croft/Haskell (Morgan)/Wood (Robshaw) BR, and use the bench better, we could be a bit more competitive. Still not sure if we'd win though.

[gregortree]

Ok, let's stop talking about Australia, and move on over to this other Hersh thread.

Marler out with knee ligament injury, Corbs (we hope) fit and maybe in form.
This will bring a much needed bolster to the front row.
Any other changes you would like to see ?
Can we find a centre with a pass by Saturday ?
And some clearer thinking for the half backs ?
Launchbury to start in the engine room please.

[Biltong]

Just found out JP Pietersen might be out, so that leaves no Hbana, no JP, no frans.

[RubyGuby]

Give Chavanga a shout - nice hattrick yesterday

[HERSH]

Marler looks set to miss the SA game.

Is that really a lose?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20396722

IMO he was poor in both games, maybe he should stop spending time trimming his beard and getting his hair done and spend more time on the scrummaging machine.

[Duty281]

England by 3. South Africa have looked below-average against Scotland and Ireland. England will win the breakdown battle, will win the kicking battle and can match the Saffers at the set-piece. England will be fired up after losing to Australia in a game they should have won.

England 26-23 South Africa

[HERSH]

England 42 - SA 17

[gregortree]

14-14

[Barney McGrew did it]

I would have said SA +5. Til I remembered the AI 2010 when a much unfancied SA - having played badly as well as losing to Scotland - played a fancied (and better than the current) England, and gave us a special spanking. SA +10. Then I remembered the brainless and untalented way we offered up our behinds to Aus last week. SA +15. I hope I'm not being too unrealistic.

[gregortree]

Depends which shirts.
The white ones I sincerely hope.
Purple is the death colour.

[Guest]

England are going to win this for sure,
they just lost to Australia like Woodwards tour from hell team,

Now just like Woodwards team they will grow stronger and come back world beaters, the Boks will be shaking in their boots because they know England never lose they just learn a lesson and adapt come back stronger just like the alien from the movie Alien.

Pure logic FACT!

[Biltong]

Doubt there will be much shaking going on, more a case of rattled English cages.

[fa0019]

Êtzebeth has been cited.... If he misses the game the boks lose a lot of up front strength.

With Marler out eng may stand a chance come scrum time given cj had a bit of a mare on Saturday. I hate it how props all end up getting bested.

Eng have to sort out this backrow issue though. Louw has been superb and will dominate if ENG put out the same backrow as last Saturday.

I think England will take this one but SA haven't lost in 6 years, it's a habit that eng may struggle to overcome.

[Biltong]

Why has he been cited?

[Guest]

Massaging Laidlaw's eye

[Guest]

Allegedly

[Biltong]

Any clips on it?

[Taylorman]

England are going to win this for sure,
they just lost to Australia like Woodwards tour from hell team,

Now just like Woodwards team they will grow stronger and come back world beaters, the Boks will be shaking in their boots because they know England never lose they just learn a lesson and adapt come back stronger just like the alien from the movie Alien.

Pure logic FACT!

Cool, so its back to school the week after then?

[Guest]

Not seen any ,just seen it on the BBC and 365

[maestegmafia]

From the Telegraph on England selection... looks like Marler is out injured...

Marler is set to be replaced in the match-day squad by Alex Corbisiero, who has made two starts for London Irish over the last fortnight after recovering from a knee injury of his own.

The potential change at loose-head prop is one of a number Lancaster is considering as England aim to bounce back from their 20-14 defeat to Australia.
Tom Wood appears a likely starter at blindside flanker while London Irish centre Jonathan Joseph has also come back into the equation after shaking an ankle injury.
Lancaster said: "We will potentially freshen things up with one or two changes. We have players on the return - Alex played 75 minutes yesterday and Jonathan Joseph played.
"Joe Marler has a grade one MCL so it is likely he won't be available for Saturday. He'd be out of the equation I think. Alex Corbisiero would come back into the equation for him.

"The selection for South Africa will be based on a variety of things. First and foremost the challenge of South Africa, their physicality and the performances they have been putting in on this tour."
Geoff Parling, Tom Palmer, Manu Tuilagi, Charlie Sharples and Tom Youngs all sat out training today with "bumps and bruises as opposed to anything too serious" from the weekend.
England held a review session this morning, in which the key decisions not to kick penalties for goal were analysed and the focus shifted to the Springboks.

"We have to take what we can out of the game," Lancaster said.
"We talked about all the decisions made in the game. I will support the players in their decision because it is a real-time decision.

"But we have to make sure we get those decisions correct. Did we get them all right? There are some that have been reviewed but I won't criticise the players for having a mindset to win the game.

"There were plenty of opportunities to win it. We were in the game with less than five minutes to go but the reality is we didn't win it.

"The game was not as black and white as everyone makes out. The Australia coaches said to me afterwards that that was as good as they have played.
"And until that truck-and-trailer lineout with five minutes to go we were in with a chance of winning. We need to make sure we get that accuracy and decision-making right.

"We pushed them to the line but we didn't get across the line and that is the disappointing them because we believed we could win the game.
"We can't feel sorry for ourselves. We have to roll out sleeves up and get stuck into South Africa."

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