Gloves: How much do they matter?

First topic message reminder :

They are many type of boxing gloves worn today by pro boxers but what advantages do each glove hold over each other.

Back in the day the gloves used to be an important part of negotiations, because the rules were that each boxer had to where the same type of gloves and even the same colour. Who could forget Hamed's arguments with the Barrera camp over the colour of glove, it seemed to matter him more than training.

Pacquiao's then manager signed a deal that stopped Pacquiao wearing "the punchers glove", Cleto Reyes gloves for the first Morales fight and was a factor is Pacquiao losing that fight. Pacquiao immediately sacked his manager for such an error.

Amir Khan wears Reebok gloves, I think one of the only pro boxer that does. I suppose for the endorsement money but could he more effect with say the Cleto reyes gloves to increase his power?

Grant gloves are used by boxers that need to protect their hands, they are also larger and can be used more for defensive work, blocking parrying punches but because of the extra padding around the fist and how they are weighted they take power of your punches making them less effective if you want a KO.

The degree in which theses gloves play apart in defense or power punching is a matter of debate though. What are everybody views on the difference they make and what other types of gloves are out there and what type of fighters do they benifit?

Again your bringing things up that aren't comparable, air resistance would again play a massive role dependant on the surface area.

Remember F=MA

I cant believe this thread. I am in the unfortunate position of having to agree with Atom here. Gloves are gloves. Regardless of what glove you use, if you hit an opponent in the right spot, they will go. As long as the gloves are the right weight, there is zero difference between the different manufacturers. Whatever Pac said is downright lies. First needles then this. Whatever next? The ropes or floyd should be made to stop throwing such accurate punches so often to make it fair?

HumanWindmill wrote:Call me a geek, but as one who leans to the arts more than the sciences and hasn't studied anything other than rudimentary physics in a very long time, I've found this to be very interesting.

D4's original point for debate concerned the degree to which gloves can influence a fight, and my guess would be that we've pretty much arrived at a point where we can see that it DOES make a difference, though probably not a huge one.

I suppose if fighter A had normally worn Reyes gloves but was wearing Lonsdales and had put a beatdown on fighter B without being able to inflict sufficient damage to get a stoppage we might wonder if Reyes gloves might have tilted the balance.

In other circumstances - a fight in which fighter B is never in any serious danger of being stopped - I would guess that the difference is to be so small as to be imperceptible and insignificant to the outcome of the fight.

I'm nowhere near the level where I could calculate the increase force of impact Reyes gloves would have over say Lonsdale, but if you know the materials, how they react under stress, their elasticity and the sizes of each area of padding, you could work out the increase of power Reyes have over other gloves.

Some scientist run some pointless experiements in the name of science, e.g. the pressure of penguin defecation so to do this test on boxing gloves will be several step up from them and could help marketing of certain gloves as well

The Mighty Atom wrote:Again your bringing things up that aren't comparable, air resistance would again play a massive role dependant on the surface area.

Remember F=MA

Force= mass x acceleration.

What does that have to do with air resistance.

And explain to me how rubber brick the same size has more air resistance than a brick?

A rubber brick the same size and mass as brick made of rock would have exactly the same force

The Mighty Atom wrote:A rubber brick the same size and mass as brick made of rock would have exactly the same force

But the rubber is elastic and the force would compress it and bounce it back while the brick is not elastic and will break through.

Can you see a difference now?

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:A rubber brick the same size and mass as brick made of rock would have exactly the same force

But the rubber is elastic and the force would compress it and bounce it back while the brick is not elastic and will break through.

Can you see a difference now?

The difference between that and a boxing glove is absolutely negligible.

Good god a boxing glove is a boxing glove, they are made of the same god damm thing

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:A rubber brick the same size and mass as brick made of rock would have exactly the same force

But the rubber is elastic and the force would compress it and bounce it back while the brick is not elastic and will break through.

Can you see a difference now?

The difference between that and a boxing glove is absolutely negligible.

There is a difference though and that bring back to my original point how much of a difference.

Extra padding absorbs the force thus softening the blow and protecting the hand, because of the Newton's third law, every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Good god a boxing glove is a boxing glove, they are made of the same god damm thing

Ok a cast iron weight one evenly covered in rubber the other unevenly covered and the area that hits the ice has very thin cover of rubber on it.

D4, other that a mental thing, do you actually believe that the impact force would have resulted in a Manny win had he used the gloves of his choice? His excuses were that the randon blood tests weakened him and he used the wrong gloves. This man sounds like british rail.

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Good god a boxing glove is a boxing glove, they are made of the same god damm thing

Ok a cast iron weight one evenly covered in rubber the other unevenly covered and the area that hits the ice has very thin cover of rubber on it.

This is boxing not physics. No relation whatsoever. Its just Manny making excuses again.

azania wrote:D4, other that a mental thing, do you actually believe that the impact force would have resulted in a Manny win had he used the gloves of his choice? His excuses were that the randon blood tests weakened him and he used the wrong gloves. This man sounds like british rail.

Well he wore the Reyes gloves in the second fight and looked what happened.

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:D4, other that a mental thing, do you actually believe that the impact force would have resulted in a Manny win had he used the gloves of his choice? His excuses were that the randon blood tests weakened him and he used the wrong gloves. This man sounds like british rail.

Well he wore the Reyes gloves in the second fight and looked what happened.

Yes, Morales was weight drained. He beat him up until he gassed due to weight loss issues.

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Good god a boxing glove is a boxing glove, they are made of the same god damm thing

Ok a cast iron weight one evenly covered in rubber the other unevenly covered and the area that hits the ice has very thin cover of rubber on it.

Not sure why you can't understand there is no correlation between force and damage so why you keep bringing up these hypothetical situations is beyond me

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:D4, other that a mental thing, do you actually believe that the impact force would have resulted in a Manny win had he used the gloves of his choice? His excuses were that the randon blood tests weakened him and he used the wrong gloves. This man sounds like british rail.

Well he wore the Reyes gloves in the second fight and looked what happened.

Yes, Morales was weight drained. He beat him up until he gassed due to weight loss issues.

Well we can discuss that on another thread at a different time, this thread is about the effect of different gloves have, whether it be for power punching, hand protection, defense or any other advantage or disadvantage.

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:D4, other that a mental thing, do you actually believe that the impact force would have resulted in a Manny win had he used the gloves of his choice? His excuses were that the randon blood tests weakened him and he used the wrong gloves. This man sounds like british rail.

Well he wore the Reyes gloves in the second fight and looked what happened.

Now that I DO disagree with.

Morales was the better man in the first fight, pure and simple. Isn't the subject matter supposed to be more general and not specifically about Pacquiao ?

It's just not going to fly that Pacquiao would have beaten Morales first time out had he been wearing his preferred gloves. For one thing, if the differences were THAT significant Pacquiao would have worn them, pure and simple. Red Bull aren't going to send Vettel into a Grand Prix with a Volkswagen Beetle engine in his car.

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:D4, other that a mental thing, do you actually believe that the impact force would have resulted in a Manny win had he used the gloves of his choice? His excuses were that the randon blood tests weakened him and he used the wrong gloves. This man sounds like british rail.

Well he wore the Reyes gloves in the second fight and looked what happened.

Now that I DO disagree with.

Morales was the better man in the first fight, pure and simple. Isn't the subject matter supposed to be more general and not specifically about Pacquiao ?

It's just not going to fly that Pacquiao would have beaten Morales first time out had he been wearing his preferred gloves. For one thing, if the differences were THAT significant Pacquiao would have worn them, pure and simple. Red Bull aren't going to send Vettel into a Grand Prix with a Volkswagen Beetle engine in his car.

Windy if you ever get the chance and go down a boxing store and try on a pair of Reyes glove and a pair of Lonsdales. Feel the difference in how they feel, you don't even have to throw a punch to know the Reyes gloves hit harder.

For the sake of argument-if two guys have gloves which each have say a kilo of padding, but one has it ALL on the knuckles, the other has NONE on the knuckle area, then sure, there may be a different.

We're talking ounces, perhaps even fractions of ounces. The difference would be negligible. As Az says, it reeks of yet another poor excuse for Mr Pacquiao, and another attempt to further discredit any suggestion that the man may simply be fallible.

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:D4, other that a mental thing, do you actually believe that the impact force would have resulted in a Manny win had he used the gloves of his choice? His excuses were that the randon blood tests weakened him and he used the wrong gloves. This man sounds like british rail.

Well he wore the Reyes gloves in the second fight and looked what happened.

Yes, Morales was weight drained. He beat him up until he gassed due to weight loss issues.

Well we can discuss that on another thread at a different time, this thread is about the effect of different gloves have, whether it be for power punching, hand protection, defense or any other advantage or disadvantage.

OK: the effect the gloves had in that instance was non-existent. Next: 'does weight draining make Pacquiao's opponents fight better?'.

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:D4, other that a mental thing, do you actually believe that the impact force would have resulted in a Manny win had he used the gloves of his choice? His excuses were that the randon blood tests weakened him and he used the wrong gloves. This man sounds like british rail.

Well he wore the Reyes gloves in the second fight and looked what happened.

Now that I DO disagree with.

Morales was the better man in the first fight, pure and simple. Isn't the subject matter supposed to be more general and not specifically about Pacquiao ?

It's just not going to fly that Pacquiao would have beaten Morales first time out had he been wearing his preferred gloves. For one thing, if the differences were THAT significant Pacquiao would have worn them, pure and simple. Red Bull aren't going to send Vettel into a Grand Prix with a Volkswagen Beetle engine in his car.

Windy if you ever get the chance and go down a boxing store and try on a pair of Reyes glove and a pair of Lonsdales. Feel the difference in how they feel, you don't even have to throw a punch to know the Reyes gloves hit harder.

I don't doubt you, mate, and I see your argument.

However, my point still stands. I don't believe it can be a MAJOR factor in every case, and without wishing to drag this off topic I don't really see the difference it would have made in the first Pacquiao v Morales affair.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleto_Reyes

The gloves are also favoured by fighters that are known to carry a heavy punch, worn by countless World Champions from all over the World including Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Evander Holyfield, Sugar Ray Leonard, Mike Tyson, Manny Pacquiao and many others.

I'll bet you Reyes gloves are responsible for more KOs than any other brand, and probably by some way.

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:D4, other that a mental thing, do you actually believe that the impact force would have resulted in a Manny win had he used the gloves of his choice? His excuses were that the randon blood tests weakened him and he used the wrong gloves. This man sounds like british rail.

Well he wore the Reyes gloves in the second fight and looked what happened.

Now that I DO disagree with.

Morales was the better man in the first fight, pure and simple. Isn't the subject matter supposed to be more general and not specifically about Pacquiao ?

It's just not going to fly that Pacquiao would have beaten Morales first time out had he been wearing his preferred gloves. For one thing, if the differences were THAT significant Pacquiao would have worn them, pure and simple. Red Bull aren't going to send Vettel into a Grand Prix with a Volkswagen Beetle engine in his car.

Windy if you ever get the chance and go down a boxing store and try on a pair of Reyes glove and a pair of Lonsdales. Feel the difference in how they feel, you don't even have to throw a punch to know the Reyes gloves hit harder.

I don't doubt you, mate, and I see your argument.

However, my point still stands. I don't believe it can be a MAJOR factor in every case, and without wishing to drag this off topic I don't really see the difference it would have made in the first Pacquiao v Morales affair.

Obviously there is more to boxing than punch power. The point is that Reyes gloves will make you hit harder. That may not be the difference in some fights, e.g. Calzaghe vs Lacy, but could make all the difference in say Ortiz vs Maidana.

I'm fairly certain those guys would have got just as many KO's regardless of what brand of gloves they were wearing

There really is no hope if you think gloves make you hit harder and make that much of a difference

The Mighty Atom wrote:I'm fairly certain those guys would have got just as many KO's regardless of what brand of gloves they were wearing

I'm not, I think a few could have been wiped out.

There's such a minimal difference it wouldn't cause any difference to your consciousness which causes knockouts not physical damage.

The gloves aren't responsible for the KO. The boxer throwing the punch is. If Ian Napa wore Reyes gloves, would he become a KO artist?

D4thincarnation wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleto_Reyes

The gloves are also favoured by fighters that are known to carry a heavy punch, worn by countless World Champions from all over the World including Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Evander Holyfield, Sugar Ray Leonard, Mike Tyson, Manny Pacquiao and many others.

I'll bet you Reyes gloves are responsible for more KOs than any other brand, and probably by some way.

Unless you can provide conclusive proof, give it a rest. If there was such an advantage then the sport would have more restrictive regulations. Simple.

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleto_Reyes

The gloves are also favoured by fighters that are known to carry a heavy punch, worn by countless World Champions from all over the World including Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Evander Holyfield, Sugar Ray Leonard, Mike Tyson, Manny Pacquiao and many others.

I'll bet you Reyes gloves are responsible for more KOs than any other brand, and probably by some way.

Unless you can provide conclusive proof, give it a rest. If there was such an advantage then the sport would have more restrictive regulations. Simple.

I don't think it makes a huge difference, it not going to turn Paulie into a KO artist but they do provide take less out of a punch than their competitors. But at a cost, you lose protection and could suffer hand injuries from them.

Very minimal differences

Right, let's just ban that brand of gloves. It CLEARLY gives boxers an unfair advantage. The boxers named in that Wikipedia article-what are their respective KO ratios? How many times did Ali KO Fraser and Norton? SRL couldn't KO Duran, but Hearns managed it inside six minutes. You're talking out of your rear end AGAIN, D4, and once again using SELECTIVE 'evidence' to paint a one-sided picture of events in order to support your own argument, which AS USUAL is hell-bent on making a martyr of THAT FILIPINO.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Very minimal differences

What ever the difference you or I are not qualified to quantify it accurately.

I believe you can devise a test to test them, but to my knowledge nobody has done this scientifically as yet.

But I would hazard a guess around 2-3%.

It wouldn't a difference that significant otherwise everyone would wear them

D4, I like you, but you dont half talk some cr@p mate.

The Mighty Atom wrote:It wouldn't a difference that significant otherwise everyone would wear them

Other gloves have other advantages too.

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Very minimal differences

What ever the difference you or I are qualified to quantify it accurately.

I believe you can devise a test to test them but to my knowledge nobody has done this scientifically as yet.

But I would hazard a guess around 2-3%.

Absolute gibberish.

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:It wouldn't a difference that significant otherwise everyone would wear them

Other gloves have other advantages too.

In the sack?

Of course, the reverse argument would be that, if Reyes gloves ARE so significantly better, we must ask if any fighter wearing them would have been so successful wearing Lonsdales, or whatever.

Bit like F1, really. Put the best driver in the slowest car and he likely won't win too many Grand Prix.

This is the most absurd thing i've read on here before

HumanWindmill wrote:Of course, the reverse argument would be that, if Reyes gloves ARE so significantly better, we must ask if any fighter wearing them would have been so successful wearing Lonsdales, or whatever.

Bit like F1, really. Put the best driver in the slowest car and he likely won't win too many Grand Prix.

Good point, well made. I like where you're going there. Likewise if EVERYONE had lucky socks...

HumanWindmill wrote:Of course, the reverse argument would be that, if Reyes gloves ARE so significantly better, we must ask if any fighter wearing them would have been so successful wearing Lonsdales, or whatever.

Bit like F1, really. Put the best driver in the slowest car and he likely won't win too many Grand Prix.

I don't the the difference is that extreme.

The football boot is a much better analogy. They don't make the player but a predator boot will allow you to curl the ball more but it still the footballer's attributes that play the most significant part by a very long way.

It is also harder to defend with Reyes glove, due to them being smaller.

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Of course, the reverse argument would be that, if Reyes gloves ARE so significantly better, we must ask if any fighter wearing them would have been so successful wearing Lonsdales, or whatever.

Bit like F1, really. Put the best driver in the slowest car and he likely won't win too many Grand Prix.

I don't the the difference is that extreme.

The football boot is a much better analogy. They don't make the player but a predator boot will allow you to curl the ball more but it still the footballer's attributes that play the most significant part by a very long way.

Most players do not wear predators.

But let me get a few things clear. Pac got his a$$ handed to him by EM because: 1- he was wearing the wrong gloves and 2- he had blood drawn from him 2(TWO!!!) days before the fight.

Am I correct there?

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Of course, the reverse argument would be that, if Reyes gloves ARE so significantly better, we must ask if any fighter wearing them would have been so successful wearing Lonsdales, or whatever.

Bit like F1, really. Put the best driver in the slowest car and he likely won't win too many Grand Prix.

I don't the the difference is that extreme.

The football boot is a much better analogy. They don't make the player but a predator boot will allow you to curl the ball more but it still the footballer's attributes that play the most significant part by a very long way.

Brilliant. So you now admit that there's no significant advantage to be had from wearing the gloves, and that likewise NOT wearing them doesn't have a significant inverse impact on a boxer's performance.

Ergo, Morales won because he was the better boxer on the night.

Thanks for clearing that up. Next!

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Of course, the reverse argument would be that, if Reyes gloves ARE so significantly better, we must ask if any fighter wearing them would have been so successful wearing Lonsdales, or whatever.

Bit like F1, really. Put the best driver in the slowest car and he likely won't win too many Grand Prix.

I don't the the difference is that extreme.

The football boot is a much better analogy. They don't make the player but a predator boot will allow you to curl the ball more but it still the footballer's attributes that play the most significant part by a very long way.

It's skill that curls a ball. Ask Garrincha.

It's skill that throws a punch with proper technique, balance and weight transference. Ask Dempsey.

Boots and gloves might make it a shade easier, but the bottom line is that it is the practitioner's ability which is the deciding factor.

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Of course, the reverse argument would be that, if Reyes gloves ARE so significantly better, we must ask if any fighter wearing them would have been so successful wearing Lonsdales, or whatever.

Bit like F1, really. Put the best driver in the slowest car and he likely won't win too many Grand Prix.

I don't the the difference is that extreme.

The football boot is a much better analogy. They don't make the player but a predator boot will allow you to curl the ball more but it still the footballer's attributes that play the most significant part by a very long way.

Brilliant. So you now admit that there's no significant advantage to be had from wearing the gloves, and that likewise NOT wearing them doesn't have a significant inverse impact on a boxer's performance.

Ergo, Morales won because he was the better boxer on the night.

Thanks for clearing that up. Next!

I do believe they increase the power of your shot over say Winning gloves but there is more to boxing than power and because of there smaller size your guard covers a smaller area.

So what's your point? You've already established that the gloves weren't a factor in Morales winning in THAT fight. The end.

D4thincarnation wrote:It is also harder to defend with Reyes glove, due to them being smaller.

So if Manny had worn Reyes gloves Morales might have hit him, let's say, 2 - 3% more often.

My my, good job Manny didn't have them fancy Reyes ones then, innit ? Morales beat him clearly enough as it was.

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Of course, the reverse argument would be that, if Reyes gloves ARE so significantly better, we must ask if any fighter wearing them would have been so successful wearing Lonsdales, or whatever.

Bit like F1, really. Put the best driver in the slowest car and he likely won't win too many Grand Prix.

I don't the the difference is that extreme.

The football boot is a much better analogy. They don't make the player but a predator boot will allow you to curl the ball more but it still the footballer's attributes that play the most significant part by a very long way.

It's skill that curls a ball. Ask Garrincha.

It's skill that throws a punch with proper technique, balance and weight transference. Ask Dempsey.

Boots and gloves might make it a shade easier, but the bottom line is that it is the practitioner's ability which is the deciding factor.

Predator's were scientifically proven to produce more curl.

But like you said it the practitioner's ability that his overriding but at the highest level the smallest differences can be huge.