Gloves: How much do they matter?

First topic message reminder :

They are many type of boxing gloves worn today by pro boxers but what advantages do each glove hold over each other.

Back in the day the gloves used to be an important part of negotiations, because the rules were that each boxer had to where the same type of gloves and even the same colour. Who could forget Hamed's arguments with the Barrera camp over the colour of glove, it seemed to matter him more than training.

Pacquiao's then manager signed a deal that stopped Pacquiao wearing "the punchers glove", Cleto Reyes gloves for the first Morales fight and was a factor is Pacquiao losing that fight. Pacquiao immediately sacked his manager for such an error.

Amir Khan wears Reebok gloves, I think one of the only pro boxer that does. I suppose for the endorsement money but could he more effect with say the Cleto reyes gloves to increase his power?

Grant gloves are used by boxers that need to protect their hands, they are also larger and can be used more for defensive work, blocking parrying punches but because of the extra padding around the fist and how they are weighted they take power of your punches making them less effective if you want a KO.

The degree in which theses gloves play apart in defense or power punching is a matter of debate though. What are everybody views on the difference they make and what other types of gloves are out there and what type of fighters do they benifit?

He would be punching just as hard but the physical damage caused would be less

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Between two pairs of differing 8 oz gloves it would be minimal

It probably is, but it is something very noticeable even by me.

You notice a difference in the harshness of the impact not a difference in the power

The Mighty Atom wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Between two pairs of differing 8 oz gloves it would be minimal

It probably is, but it is something very noticeable even by me.

You notice a difference in the harshness of the impact not a difference in the power

I think that was the point originally intended - gloves with lesser padding around the kunckle do more damage, not make you hit harder or faster

wow_junky wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Between two pairs of differing 8 oz gloves it would be minimal

It probably is, but it is something very noticeable even by me.

You notice a difference in the harshness of the impact not a difference in the power

I think that was the point originally intended - gloves with lesser padding around the kunckle do more damage, not make you hit harder or faster

All this talk of improving power has left me confused

The Mighty Atom wrote:

wow_junky wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Between two pairs of differing 8 oz gloves it would be minimal

It probably is, but it is something very noticeable even by me.

You notice a difference in the harshness of the impact not a difference in the power

I think that was the point originally intended - gloves with lesser padding around the kunckle do more damage, not make you hit harder or faster

All this talk of improving power has left me confused

It took a little while to get to the point, more damage / power seem relative

[quote="The Mighty Atom"]He would be punching just as hard but the physical damage caused would be less[/
quote]

It is the same as when the front of a car crumples in an accident. If you have two cars that weigh the same traveling the same speed. If they hit another car they would both carry the same inertia but more of that inertia would be transfered in by the car that doesn't crumple than the the one that does? That force lost goes into the crumpling of the car, just as the padding compresses during a punch thus transferring less power to the opponent.

It probably is, but it is something very noticeable even by me

---------

Jee whiz give it a rest.

You could give me a golf club to get re-gripped, i put 1 layer of tape under it and i can guarantee 100% you wouldn't know the difference. I used to go have 2 layers of tape under mine and the one time the assistant pro put 3 on there i noticed it as soon as i picked up one of the clubs.

Exactly the same applies here, you're neither qualified nor experienced enough to tell what MARGINAL difference there is.

What's your handicap? May have a knock around this weekend.

coxy0001 wrote:It probably is, but it is something very noticeable even by me

---------

Jee whiz give it a rest.

You could give me a golf club to get re-gripped, i put 1 layer of tape under it and i can guarantee 100% you wouldn't know the difference. I used to go have 2 layers of tape under mine and the one time the assistant pro put 3 on there i noticed it as soon as i picked up one of the clubs.

Exactly the same applies here, you're neither qualified nor experienced enough to tell what MARGINAL difference there is.

I have not quatified the difference I have just said it is noticeable. But the array of boxers that same exactly the same thing is more than enough evidence to prove my point.

[quote="D4thincarnation"]

The Mighty Atom wrote:He would be punching just as hard but the physical damage caused would be less[/
quote]

It is the same as when the front of a car crumples in an accident. If you have two cars that weigh the same traveling the same speed. If they hit another car they would both carry the same inertia but more of that inertia would be transfered in by the car that doesn't crumple than the the one that does? That force lost goes into the crumpling of the car, just as the padding compresses during a punch thus transferring less power to the opponent.

You do realise that there is no force in that impact don't you?

A punch has a force behind it which isn't altered by padding that weighs the same, the point of impact has the same acceleration and mass behind thus the the force and therefore power are the same.

The Mighty Atom wrote:A punch has a force behind it which isn't altered by padding that weighs the same, the point of impact has the same acceleration and mass behind thus the the force and therefore power are the same.

Only some of the weight of the glove will be between the fist and the point of impact. That's the difference in a different glove.

[quote="The Mighty Atom"]

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:He would be punching just as hard but the physical damage caused would be less[/
quote]

It is the same as when the front of a car crumples in an accident. If you have two cars that weigh the same traveling the same speed. If they hit another car they would both carry the same inertia but more of that inertia would be transfered in by the car that doesn't crumple than the the one that does? That force lost goes into the crumpling of the car, just as the padding compresses during a punch thus transferring less power to the opponent.

You do realise that there is no force in that impact don't you?

A punch has a force behind it which isn't altered by padding that weighs the same, the point of impact has the same acceleration and mass behind thus the the force and therefore power are the same.

But it has to transfered to the opponent to do damage. The punch may carry the same power but if that power is lost through transition th effect will be less on the opponent.

Scottrf wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:A punch has a force behind it which isn't altered by padding that weighs the same, the point of impact has the same acceleration and mass behind thus the the force and therefore power are the same.

Only some of the weight of the glove will be between the fist and the point of impact. That's the difference in a different glove.

That causes a difference in damage caused, it wont alter the power in the slightest, a gloved hand is one entity

coxy0001 wrote:It probably is, but it is something very noticeable even by me

---------

Jee whiz give it a rest.

You could give me a golf club to get re-gripped, i put 1 layer of tape under it and i can guarantee 100% you wouldn't know the difference. I used to go have 2 layers of tape under mine and the one time the assistant pro put 3 on there i noticed it as soon as i picked up one of the clubs.

Exactly the same applies here, you're neither qualified nor experienced enough to tell what MARGINAL difference there is.

Try wrapping some gauze round the end of you golf club and see if you can drive as far?

If the difference is so minimal, then regardless of how much more it hurts to be hit by one glove as opposed to another, it seems unlikely that the potential to knock a man out is significantly different.

There is also the trade off that less padding around the knuckle might discourage a fighter from putting all his force into his shots which, if memory serves, was a point made by D4 when suggesting that bare knuckle boxing is less injurious than gloved boxing.

The Mighty Atom wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:A punch has a force behind it which isn't altered by padding that weighs the same, the point of impact has the same acceleration and mass behind thus the the force and therefore power are the same.

Only some of the weight of the glove will be between the fist and the point of impact. That's the difference in a different glove.

That causes a difference in damage caused, it wont alter the power in the slightest, a gloved hand is one entity

You are only talking of the inertia of the punch, that does not matter it when the punch land thats is what matters and how that inertia dissipates.

Scottrf wrote:What's your handicap? May have a knock around this weekend.

Off 6 now, but only a very social golfer who just turns up and plays.

Used to be off 2 when 15 or so, sadly i found out what beer and girls were at the wrong time.

Be good weather for a knock around, course is starting to get a bit tough as the rough is growing at silly speeds and the greens are getting firm.

Apologies to mods - just discussing a personal question! It is almost the long weekend after all.... And seeing as though it's a long weekend i may as well say i'm going to hump the the stuffing out of it.

D4thincarnation wrote: A punch has a force behind it which isn't altered by padding that weighs the same, the point of impact has the same acceleration and mass behind thus the the force and therefore power are the same.

But it has to transfered to the opponent to do damage. The punch may carry the same power but if that power is lost through transition th effect will be less on the opponent.[/quote]

Like i've said it will change the damage caused but in the case of a knock out (loss of consciousness) it wont change

The Mighty Atom wrote:That causes a difference in damage caused, it wont alter the power in the slightest, a gloved hand is one entity

It's not. The glove isn't solid, and there are gaps between the glove and fist. That's how it can compress at impact.

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:A punch has a force behind it which isn't altered by padding that weighs the same, the point of impact has the same acceleration and mass behind thus the the force and therefore power are the same.

Only some of the weight of the glove will be between the fist and the point of impact. That's the difference in a different glove.

That causes a difference in damage caused, it wont alter the power in the slightest, a gloved hand is one entity

You are only talking of the inertia of the punch, that does not matter it when the punch land thats is what matters and how that inertia dissipates.

Inertia is dependent on mass, if the mass is the same the inertia will be the same

HumanWindmill wrote:If the difference is so minimal, then regardless of how much more it hurts to be hit by one glove as opposed to another, it seems unlikely that the potential to knock a man out is significantly different.

There is also the trade off that less padding around the knuckle might discourage a fighter from putting all his force into his shots which, if memory serves, was a point made by D4 when suggesting that bare knuckle boxing is less injurious than gloved boxing.

Different people are built different ways, some need the extra padding around the knuckles some need it around the wrist.

If a fighter chooses a type of glove to suit them, they are not going to be holding back.

The Mighty Atom wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:A punch has a force behind it which isn't altered by padding that weighs the same, the point of impact has the same acceleration and mass behind thus the the force and therefore power are the same.

Only some of the weight of the glove will be between the fist and the point of impact. That's the difference in a different glove.

That causes a difference in damage caused, it wont alter the power in the slightest, a gloved hand is one entity

You are only talking of the inertia of the punch, that does not matter it when the punch land thats is what matters and how that inertia dissipates.

Inertia is dependent on mass, if the mass is the same the inertia will be the same

Well we agree on that, and that is what I have been saying. But that inertia has to transfered at the point of impact and the power of that inertia goes many ways, one factor dependent on that is the padding of the glove.

Your understanding of what Inertia actually is, is very very wrong

The Mighty Atom wrote:Your understanding of what Inertia actually is, is very very wrong

Yeah it probably is, more to do with the car analogy. But the same principles apply with the punch those the motion may not be in a straight line.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Your understanding of what Inertia actually is, is very very wrong

But you do understand the point I'm making though the punches may carry the same power all of that power is not transfered to the opponent.

A punch already has an applied force so any inertia that would effect it is out of the equation

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Your understanding of what Inertia actually is, is very very wrong

But you do understand the point I'm making though the punches may carry the same power all of that power is not transfered to the opponent.

All of the force would be transferred to put it as simply as possible without getting too in depth with the mechanics behind it

The Mighty Atom wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Your understanding of what Inertia actually is, is very very wrong

But you do understand the point I'm making though the punches may carry the same power all of that power is not transfered to the opponent.

All of the force would be transferred to put it as simply as possible without getting too in depth with the mechanics behind it

It would not?

That would be a perfect system, same energy in same energy out, you just one step away from breaking the laws of thermodynamics.

This has absolutely nothing to with thermodynamics, try and sound smart all you want D4 but you'll fall well short with me on this

So if a fighter has cast iron steel 1kg knuckle dusters on and the the other fighter has 1kg duck feather pillows on, they both throw exactly the same punch, same speed and they weight the same, you think the force applied to the opponent is the same?

Surely this is a simple matter of weight distribution?

The power of a punch is relative to the weight and speed of the force behind it. But when the fist strikes if a fighter was wearing a larger, more padded glove the receiver would surely stand a better chance of surviving the blow as it is absorbed over a wider area. With a smaller, less padded glove the power of the shot would be the same, but it would less easily absorbed, especially if it connects with a vulnerable area such as the angle of the jaw, the temple or under the ribs. Think of it like this - would you rather a 10stone woman jumped on your gonads in a pair of fluffy slippers or with a stiletto heel?

Of course I'm not suggesting the difference is that extreme, but the principle is the same. It's not a coincidence that punchers go for Reyes gloves and non punchers or guys with bad hands prefer Grant.

This is where you should have mentioned inertia not before, the resistance in moving 1kg of feathers is far higher so barely a comparison not even for someone as clueless as you

Christ, this has become boring. Is it not the same kind of difference as dropping a kilo piece of brick and say, a kilo of sponge on sheet ice? One breaks it, one doesn't? Hypothetically.

The Mighty Atom wrote:This is where you should have mentioned inertia not before, the resistance in moving 1kg of feathers is far higher so barely a comparison not even for someone as clueless as you

There are compacted down to the same size then?

And by the by the way the suface area of the Reyes especially on the knuckle area is smaller.

They are the same mass not the same size

Air resistance may make a minute difference when comparing two objects of the same weight and relative volume

The Mighty Atom wrote:They are the same mass not the same size

Air resistance may make a minute difference when comparing two objects of the same weight and relative volume

Ok if it was in the vacuum of space, no air resistance, do they do the same damage then?

Do what do the same damage?

The Mighty Atom wrote:Do what do the same damage?

Yes

In a vacuum where does this mystery force come from to move anything?

The Mighty Atom wrote:In a vacuum where does this mystery force come from to move anything?

Pacquiao and Mayweather in space suits fight in the vacuum of space. with magnetic boots on on a a canvas with a metal base.

Trying to be clever isn't the best idea mate when it has no relevance

The Mighty Atom wrote:Trying to be clever isn't the best idea mate when it has no relevance

I sense you are talking from experience.

You will try and rewrite the law of physics to disagree with on a point in which the boxing world agrees on. "Reyes gloves are the punchers gloves"

Someone had a quip the other day that some poster will argue with me if I said the sky was blue, it seem that some will even go further than that.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Trying to be clever isn't the best idea mate when it has no relevance

You must understand by now that you are wrong, even Balti with his brick and ice analogy can understand it.

I'm going by the law of physics, you on the other hand are not. The boxing world can say what they want but two differing gloves made of the same thing and weighing the same aren't going to differe power. They may differ in the damage they cause but your ability to knock someone out will not change.

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Trying to be clever isn't the best idea mate when it has no relevance

You must understand by now that you are wrong, even Balti with his brick and ice analogy can understand it.

Breaking ice isn't caused by power

The Mighty Atom wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Trying to be clever isn't the best idea mate when it has no relevance

You must understand by now that you are wrong, even Balti with his brick and ice analogy can understand it.

Breaking ice isn't caused by power

What is it caused by?

Point of impact

A falling brick will accelerate far quicker than feathers weighing the same because the effect of air resistance and up thrust differs hugely based on surface area.

What noticeable difference will air resistance make to pair of winning gloves or to a pair of cleto reyes gloves next to none.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Point of impact

A falling brick will accelerate far quicker than feathers weighing the same because the effect of air resistance and up thrust differs hugely based on surface area.

What noticeable difference will air resistance make to pair of winning gloves or to a pair of cleto reyes gloves next to none.

Ok brick and cast iron weigth surrounded by foam and rubber.

Call me a geek, but as one who leans to the arts more than the sciences and hasn't studied anything other than rudimentary physics in a very long time, I've found this to be very interesting.

D4's original point for debate concerned the degree to which gloves can influence a fight, and my guess would be that we've pretty much arrived at a point where we can see that it DOES make a difference, though probably not a huge one.

I suppose if fighter A had normally worn Reyes gloves but was wearing Lonsdales and had put a beatdown on fighter B without being able to inflict sufficient damage to get a stoppage we might wonder if Reyes gloves might have tilted the balance.

In other circumstances - a fight in which fighter B is never in any serious danger of being stopped - I would guess that the difference is to be so small as to be imperceptible and insignificant to the outcome of the fight.