2012/13 Premier League discussion thread part 2

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

The discussion(s) continue here guys.

Unbelievable win for the Canaries tonight which see's Man City top for the first time this season, will they hold on.

QPR - still without a win - look doomed and Aston Villa drop into the bottom 3.

[Ent]

Yes they are and it was...

[The Special Juan]

Wilshere's a dirty player too but he's fair been in the wars today.

[Lumbering_Jack]

Yes they are and it was...

Which law is that then?

I didn't really expect an objective view from a Man Utd fan. I'd probably be the same if it was a Sunderland player.

[The Special Juan]

Cazorla's been so bad today it's frightening. He's having a Walters. Seriously though, for a player of his quality he's been poor.

[hampo17]

Its not worded as two footed, its worded as leaving the ground and losing control of your body. By doing that it is a red card, not watching the game so don't know if that's what happened but he has done that before.

[GSC]

Eh, haven't seen it but if you dive in 2 footed you're risking a red at this point.

[The Special Juan]

Its not worded as two footed, its worded as leaving the ground and losing control of your body. By doing that it is a red card, not watching the game so don't know if that's what happened but he has done that before.

I was just thinking that. His challenge was similar to the FA Cup match last season v Man United.

[Ent]

Yes they are and it was...

Which law is that then?

I didn't really expect an objective view from a Man Utd fan. I'd probably be the same if it was a Sunderland player.

The one covering dangerous and foul play.

Balotellis hair, there are no words!

[Hulking_up]

Never a red card

[Lumbering_Jack]

It is perfectly possible to make a 2 footed challenge and still be in control. Referees don't understand this.

[Lumbering_Jack]

Was a great challenge. But when you have some people telling you it was dangerous and 2 footed what chance do you have...

[Ent]

It wasnt that bad or at much risk of hurting Wilshire but he took both feet off the ground into the tackle- he was very silly.

[Lumbering_Jack]

It wasnt that bad or at much risk of hurting Wilshire but he took both feet off the ground into the tackle- he was very silly.

How is it even possible to make a sliding challenge without both feet leaving the floor. Most certainly not a two-footed challenge.

I do admire your position of not accepting anything your local rivals do as being fair though...

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

That was never a red card tackle in a million years. Referee just looking to even it up

[Ent]

Eh? They were winning easily, not like they cheated.

Anyway just managed to catch a side on replay and he didn't go in with both feet - woops, apologies to all.

[Ent]

Mmmmm just seen all the replays, dunno what to make of it. Too hungover.

[JamesLincs]

praising suarez for not cheating is like praising a drug addict for not taking drugs for a day

[Lumbering_Jack]

Stuart downing on the other hand should be ashamed if his dive, as should that Southampton lad.

The FA really need to step up and act, but as usual they will take years to pass any meaningful legislation.

[Crimey]

praising suarez for not cheating is like praising a drug addict for not taking drugs for a day

Which people do and is actually encouraged....

[Crimey]

Whether people believe tackles like that should be red cards is not actually relevant, the fact is that Kompany should no better, it was very dangerous and he's been sent off for similar tackles in the past.

It was a 50/50 ball, you cannot dive in like that for 50/50 balls, if he had actually caught Wilshere, I don't think there'd be any doubt that it was a red card, because he'd have probably broken Wilshere's leg. That's why tackles like that are being discouraged, and I don't think necessarily think that's a bad thing. It means defenders will get better, I think it was Carvalho who said that if a defender is making a slide tackle it's because he has made a mistake.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I don't see what's wrong with a good strong hard tackle like Kompany's. It's those sort of tackles that our game was built on, we don't want to become like Spainish football were if you seem to touch the opponent a foul is given.

[Crimey]

That wasn't a good strong hard tackle, it was the kind of tackle that breaks legs. Tackles like that shouldn't be happening, they're unnecessarily dangerous.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

How is that dangerous? He wasn't off the ground, he just slid in harder than Wilshere.

If anything Wilshere loses his footing (right foot) and falls into Kompany. I really do fail to see anything wrong with that tackle and if that's a red card the games gone mad

[hampo17]

Nothing wrong with the Kompany tackle, in fact if you wanted to show a youngster who has just started playing the game a perfect slide tackle you'd probably show them that one. Very poor decision by the referee.

[compelling and rich]

I don't see what's wrong with a good strong hard tackle like Kompany's. It's those sort of tackles that our game was built on, we don't want to become like Spainish football were if you seem to touch the opponent a foul is given.

was only having the conversation about the "back in my day it was better and tougher, game was built on etc" attitude of english fans, has anybody been back and watched games from the 70's and 80's? the quality is awful and games more often than not turned out who could kick each other the best. the banning of the tackle from behind and the back pass are two of the best rules to have been brought into football. and i think the two footed lunge is another great rule, there is simply no place or reason to leave the ground with both feet. as most top defenders will tell you its best to stay on your feet and is a cowards tackle. kompany was perhaps slighty hard done by but from the refs view point and angle you can see why he give it, he did leave the ground (all be it very shortly) and if we are going to inforce this rule there will be a few wrong ones along the way, just like i dont mind when a ref gives a yellow for a dive even if its not (at least he's the balls to make a desicion). kompany could have easily stayed on his feet in thhis situation but decided to dive in, in todays football your asking for trouble

[compelling and rich]

How is that dangerous? He wasn't off the ground, he just slid in harder than Wilshere.

If anything Wilshere loses his footing (right foot) and falls into Kompany. I really do fail to see anything wrong with that tackle and if that's a red card the games gone mad

this angle doesnt show where he did leave the ground, the one from behind (the refs view) shows him leaving the ground slightly

[mystiroakey]

50/50 challenge- nothing to it.

[compelling and rich]

the refs angle

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=kompany+challenge+on+wilshere&view=detail&id=9ED45A3D05C3C51ED1700F3F7E609190552A42EE&first=1

[Crimey]

That angle is very favourable to the tackle though, every other angle I've seen of it shows it to be a lot more dangerous. You can't dive in like that when you're not even favourite for the ball.

Kompany should have known better, it was totally unnecessary and if he got it even slightly wrong Wilshere could have a very nasty injury.

[Lumbering_Jack]

I challenge a defender take make a sliding challenge without BOTH feet leaving the ground.

With the greatest of respect Crimey, you clearly are unable to understand what is and is not a good challenge if you think a red was justified there. It wasn't even a foul.

[The Special Juan]

If it was Ramsey on the receiving end then I reckon Arsenal would have had much more to say about it. I think it's borderline red card, I can make a case for it being a red and not a red but as to whether I think it's a red I can't make my mind up.

[Crimey]

Lumbering_Jack I can guarantee that if Kompany's tackle was on a Newcastle player you'd be saying it was a red.

He dived in dangerously and unnecessarily...fair enough, he got the ball this time but if tackles like that continue to be acceptable we'll only see more horrific injuries. Kompany didn't need to tackle like that.

[User 774433]

Crimey is spot on.

Could have potentially broken the guys leg.

[compelling and rich]

I challenge a defender take make a sliding challenge without BOTH feet leaving the ground.

With the greatest of respect Crimey, you clearly are unable to understand what is and is not a good challenge if you think a red was justified there. It wasn't even a foul.

just arguing over the wording there, it would probably more clearer to say both feet were airborne without any other part of the body touching the ground, you can slide into challenges no problem but soon as you leave the ground you lose control over your body and thats what a red card is, please see the link i posted to show you that kompany was airborne

[Stella]

Under the new rules. it was a red.

btw, Jack. Can you not just slide when making a sliding tackle?

[Lumbering_Jack]

Under the new rules. it was a red.

btw, Jack. Can you not just slide when making a sliding tackle?

Your feet need to leave the floor, otherwise you just wouldn't move.

Think I must watch a different game to some people. I witnessed a good fair challenge, and others are saying they seen a potential leg breaking challenge which I must admit I find baffling. I genuinely think that some people don't understand what a fair tackle is.

[Stella]

Under the new rules. it was a red.

btw, Jack. Can you not just slide when making a sliding tackle?

Your feet need to leave the floor, otherwise you just wouldn't move.

Think I must watch a different game to some people. I witnessed a good fair challenge, and others are saying they seen a potential leg breaking challenge which I must admit I find baffling. I genuinely think that some people don't understand what a fair tackle is.

One does but not both.

Kompany's challenge would have been fine a few years ago but the rules have changed.

[Lumbering_Jack]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/21009420

[Lumbering_Jack]

Under the new rules. it was a red.

btw, Jack. Can you not just slide when making a sliding tackle?

Your feet need to leave the floor, otherwise you just wouldn't move.

Think I must watch a different game to some people. I witnessed a good fair challenge, and others are saying they seen a potential leg breaking challenge which I must admit I find baffling. I genuinely think that some people don't understand what a fair tackle is.

One does but not both.

Kompany's challenge would have been fine a few years ago but the rules have changed.

Then it wouldn't be a sliding challenge. You can't have one foot on the floor and slide, it is impossible. To slide your studs need to be off the ground.

[Lumbering_Jack]

Anyway, 2-footed challenges are perfectly legal.

[Stella]

Under the new rules. it was a red.

btw, Jack. Can you not just slide when making a sliding tackle?

Your feet need to leave the floor, otherwise you just wouldn't move.

Think I must watch a different game to some people. I witnessed a good fair challenge, and others are saying they seen a potential leg breaking challenge which I must admit I find baffling. I genuinely think that some people don't understand what a fair tackle is.

One does but not both.

Kompany's challenge would have been fine a few years ago but the rules have changed.

Then it wouldn't be a sliding challenge. You can't have one foot on the floor and slide, it is impossible. To slide your studs need to be off the ground.

Hey? Slide on your side. One foot will be off the ground (slightly) and the studs will be showing but that's one way.

[Stella]

Anyway, 2-footed challenges are perfectly legal.

I THOUGHT not, if both feet were off the ground. I might be wrong?

[TopHat24/7]

I'm with Hansen on this one (and it's rare I say that):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21009420

Hansen says Kompany's challenge on Jack Wilshere was the "perfect tackle".

And he told the Telegraph: "If Manchester City fail to get Vincent Kompany's red card against Arsenal rescinded it will send out the message that tackling has gone forever."

[Liam]

Its ridiculous how Kompany's tackle and others like it are being given straight reds these days. A good crunching tackle would get the crowd going and and the player on the recieving end looking to prove something after being out powered with the tackle. Sort of a macho man mentality.

Now I think the crowd has a big part to play. You could hear the Arsenal fans screaming for a red soon as the tackle was committed, and I honestly think it puts pressure on the Refs and makes them act hastily without truly thinking of the tackle. If Wilshere had tackled Kompany like that he would have been applauded and cheered.

Its quite obvious to me anyway what a red carded tackle is. Kompany won the ball well before making contact with Wilshere and was always in control of his body.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Wilshere fell onto Kompany! You see his right foot slips and he falls onto Kompany on the clip posted earlier!

You make a good point Liam about the crowd it is part of the reason why I think the ref sent him off. To sort of get the crowd off his back, he is only a human after all

[TopHat24/7]

The clip also shows it wasn't 50:50 as made out, Kompany clearly makes the ball first, a perfectly timed and executed tackle.

[Ent]

I'm not sure it was a red but kompany wasn't in control, you can see he is going backwards then makes a quick adjustment when Wilshire over runs the ball and throws himself into the challenge.

[Lumbering_Jack]

I'm not sure it was a red but kompany wasn't in control, you can see he is going backwards then makes a quick adjustment when Wilshire over runs the ball and throws himself into the challenge.

I honestly don't understand some people...

I don't like anonymous arrogance on forums but in this situation people who think it was a red card have not got a clue about tackling in football. Not a jot.

[Crimey]

Or maybe you don't understand football here and now and are stuck in the past? We've seen time and time again that tackles like that are not acceptable, referees will not allow them. Kompany knows this better than anyone.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Kompany should know better. The ref's angle I saw gave vision of two feet off the floor at the player. You run the risk that way. The point of the rule is to stop that technique, so that less people naturally do it and the out of control ones are stopped.

I dont think I would have very often in my life gone even nearly into a tackle like that. Im about 5'10 and a defender, I have to get my technique right to have a physical presence in the tackle. I doubt very much that I've ever gone forward jumping like that, usually my left leg would be bent back as part of the slide. For arguments sake, I would say thats not Kompany's natural technique, and thus it was a bit out of his control. For a defender of Kompany's quality to lose his technique would suggest it is not a great tackle.

I see it as one of those that wont get rescinded. Basically, its slightly in the grey area and you can understand a yellow and a red.

[Sponsored content]