End of week 2 and how are our teams going forward

It's midway through the Autumn series. How are the teams holding up. Here's my thoughts, what are yours?

New Zealand. They came into the series on a good run of form. Two solid wins by B sides over Scotland and Italy mean they are still no 1 in most peoples minds. As a critical NZ supporter I still have concerns. We have only put together top notch performances a few times this year and are sometimes of running the ball without earning it up front first. It is worth noting that both wins were big in terms of Scotland and Italy's recent home record. There's still enough to give Wales and England hope and supporters some nerves.

South Africa. Came into the series as no 3 pretty much on a par with Australia. A good 2nd half against Ireland and 1st half against Scotland has seen them home. I think both results are important in getting the monkey of the Boks back. They have successfully negotiated Ireland and Scotland away, something that has been an issue in recent years. Injuries and Meyers game plan mean that England will see this as a realistic opportunity next week and Boks supporters wont be completely optimistic, even with England losing today.

Australia. Came into the series as no 2, could have fallen out of the top 4 if they had lost to England. I'm unsure what to make of Australia. They have a lot of injuries and the hardest itinerary of a RC team. They were hammered by France, but were too street wise for England. They are definitely a good side, but the romantics amongst us miss the great backlines and playmakers of the past.

France. Of all the sides playing at the moment, France are the side that makes you look up and take notice. Convincing wins over the Wallabies and Pumas ensure this. they should be too strong for Samoa next week. Is this the start of a new era (a la England 2002-2003), or is just another blip in French Rugby history. The anticipation of next years 3 match test series with NZ is growing already. As luck would have it we could be with out McCaw and Carter (dammit)....

England. Where to put this England side. A promising start against what is turning out to be a dysfunctional Fijian side, followed by a loss to Australia. I feel they are, as normal, on the verge of the top table, but not quite there. As usual they have a powerful forward pack, but struggle to breakdown good sides. They have got 2 big games to go (Boks and the Blacks) I'm leaving my assessment until after these games (the AB's are due their 10 yearly loss).

Argentina. They started with a bang this tour with a good win over Wales (if anything the score doesn't reflect their dominance), followed by a loss to Frannce. Next week will define their tour and whether they have stepped up a notch (i.e. between the celts and England France). One suspects that the unavailbality of players and the length of their season will make this last game a bridge to far.

Ireland. One of those teams that have their fans in a quandary. Some key injuries and a coach fans love to hate (substitute Wales, Australia and South Africa here). A narrow loss to South Africa and a booming win against a second rate Fiji. We wont know where they stand until the end of the series, but it's unlikely to be as successful as some of the recent Autumn tournrments.

Wales. What's happened. 6 nations champs to also rans. Life as a wales supporter this year can't be good for the blood pressure. After a good world cup and six nations Wales was competitive against Australia at home, only to crash against Argentina and Samoa. They still have to play 2 hard games. The irony is a win against NZ and all will be forgiven.

Samoa. A great result for them. A win against Wales confirms were they actually are. Despite all the factors against them they are usually competitive. The win shouldn't be a complete surprise given the close game at the world cup (when everything was against them) and their win over Australia last year. Can they string a couple of good results together is the question.

Scotland. The reality of their lack of depth is probably starting to sink in. Two losses to NZ and South Africa aren't to bad, but they need a good 6 nations to give them credibility. They are pretty much confined to 2nd tier. The good news is that they have some world class players, and finally with Visser have a world class finisher.

Italy. Similar to Scotland. Competitive at home. They are improving, but probably aren't ready for the next step yet. Kirwin thinks they have probably overtaken Scotland. I'm not so sure, but they are definitely on a par.

Fiji and Tonga. The jury is out. Week teams, with no preparation. It's hard to be competitive in this situation especially away from home. The IRB needs to address player availability to at least give them a fair chance (ditto for Argentina and Samoa).

Roll on next week....

Skills and expansive rugby looks to have taken a big step backwards for all teams bar the All Blacks.

The All Blacks surprised me yesterday with taking more than 40 minutes to really get in control against Italy, Australia shows inconsistency in performance and intent, the Boks haven't played 80 minutes of good rugby in any match this season, France looks promising, England industrious but don't execute against top teams, Wales are predictable and the promice of a backline that will take on the big teams are fading fast, Ireland is struggling, Scotland shows adventure but doesn't seem to have enough physicality.

Overall defences have become very organised and strong. The number of ball that goes to the wings are reducing rapidly, and variation in attack seems to be a concern for most supporters.

New Zealands problem is that the team that played against Italy looked like they could beat the team that played Scotland.

And I'm utterly confused as to what we now do with Corey Jane.

Mine is sprinting full pace backwards

Both sides yesterday in the Italy match were well ahead of the offside line. Rolland seems incapable of keeping the players onside. He says onside and they're well in front and then does nothing most of the time. As a consequence the midfield gets shut down and there's no space to move the balls out to the wing. I think Italy made some clever kicks in the first half but we had to be patient to find the gaps.

Scotland.

As a scotland fan one tends to veer between blind optimism and hopeless pessimism. At the moment I canot see a wn (certainly against a top eight side) coming.

The team play less then the sum of their parts. We have the best, most skillful, fastest group of players I have ever seen in a Scotland shirt - going back decades. However they rarely if even play to thir potential. It always used to be a strngth of good scotland teams - making a real team greater than the sum of the parts. No longer.

Players are lacking n confidence and look stifeled. Visser - last season playing for Edinburgh wuld appear all over the pitch - running hard and calling for the ball, for Scotland - he seems timid, cowed. Laidlaw - at his best playing fast, mixing it up and playing by instinct. This season? confused, lacking confidence. They are not the only ones either.

The team do not look fired up. No passon.

I can only blame the coaching setup for this. Both at Edinburgh and Scotland. Good players do not become poor ones overnight. No great
candidate for captain either. Neither a leader or a tactiticain
Something needs to change within the camp before scotlands fortunes will imrove - and for me it has to be the coaching team.

6 n prodiction - fighting with italy for the wooden spoon.

TJ wrote:Scotland.

6 n prodiction - fighting with italy for the wooden spoon.

TJ,

Take heart butty after our performances so far under the muppet it will be a 3 way battle for the spoon and we have you and Italy away.

:-)

TJ wrote::-)

See there always a silver lining, though ours at the moment is a very very dull grey and a long way in the future

bedfordwelsh wrote:

TJ wrote::-)

See there always a silver lining, though ours at the moment is a very very dull grey and a long way in the future

Us winning the GS wasnt that long ago in the past.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
New Zealands problem is that the team that played against Italy looked like they could beat the team that played Scotland.

And I'm utterly confused as to what we now do with Corey Jane.

He's clearly the best right winger and 2nd best fullback in the world right now - what's the problem?

Back reserves are Pieman, Barrett, Smith/Ellison depending on fitness

From an Irish point of view its the same old story. At least we have the players now to move up a level and Kidney will be gone in the spring so theres hope there but patience is wearing thin. The 6 nations will be another mid table finish.

Us England fans have been saying England are "rebuilding" since 2003...and yet our team has not gone anywhere....

Dogged by selection puzzles...lack of out and out world class players...confusion over the style to play and the players needed to do that...

Yet we still have massively high expectations....

"rebuilding" since 2003"

Think you must have the same builders in that did my garage extension

Not sure the AB team v Scotland could be considered a "B team" when your best players Carter, McCaw, Dagg etc. were playing as were most regulars bar a few injuries.

England: Appear to be under-powered, and afraid to put their bodies on the line.

Also completely unable to collect the ball at speed and attack the line. Everything has to be achieved from a standing start.

GunsGerms wrote:Not sure the AB team v Scotland could be considered a "B team" when your best players Carter, McCaw, Dagg etc. were playing as were most regulars bar a few injuries.

Is there such a thing as an All Black B team?

Crockett, hore, Romano (possibly), savea, weepu, Ellison, smith, vito are probably not in their first XV but they slot in so seamlessly that there really isn't a semblance of it being weaker

GeordieFalcon wrote:Us England fans have been saying England are "rebuilding" since 2003...and yet our team has not gone anywhere....

Dogged by selection puzzles...lack of out and out world class players...confusion over the style to play and the players needed to do that...

Yet we still have massively high expectations....

Having said that, England are consistently in the top 4 or 5, so although not all is rosy, it would seem that there isn'ttoo much to fix either.

"Is there such a thing as an All Black B team?"

Yeah it's called Samoa

GunsGerms wrote:Not sure the AB team v Scotland could be considered a "B team" when your best players Carter, McCaw, Dagg etc. were playing as were most regulars bar a few injuries.

Call it depleted then. Six players assured of a start (going into the tour), another 3 competing for a starting position and 6 also rans.

RubyGuby wrote:"Is there such a thing as an All Black B team?"

Yeah it's called Samoa

I think they've got the mix right. Kiwi tight 5, inside backs and centres. Island born and bred players in the backrow and outside backs. It's got to help for the set piece and kicking game. The whole team is professional which is great.

Good summary blackcanelion, although I think that any notion the ABs had a second team out against Scotland is fairly unsustainable given their usual rotation policy and the fact that the spine of the team (we know which players they are) was complete.

It's been a dog day afternoon for the NH so far and it has to be said that a lot of the smelly stuff seems to derive from poor coaching choices:

England - bizarrely, looked better at last year's 6N when the team didn't know each other as well. England's problem is not the quality of the players - it's the poor and clearly incorrect combinations. Once Monye is replaced for good, you stick Manu on his wing and play specialist centres that can actually distribute instead, play Robshaw at 6 with Armitage at 7, bring Corbs back to the front row and realise that Joe Launchbury is worth investing in then England will be formidable. Problem is, that's quite a long list of deliverables and it's not clear how many of these are solutions that Lancaster sees.

Wales - have been absolutely mystified by them. Priestland looked good last year, now he looks like a liability. It's taken an age to get a back row combination that deserves to be there on form (Warbuton is not the form 7 in Wales at the moment and I think that most people realise that) and there seems to be no fight there at all without Gatland to insert his boot up the backsides of the matchday XV. Cannot understand why the backs seem to be so toothless either, given the quality of the players.

Ireland - am actually less worried about them than anyone because they can genuinely blame losses on a crippling injury list. Best, POC, BOD, Kearney and Ferris missing would rip the guts out of any team. I'm also not worried because their problem also does seem to stem from the lack of a coherent attack gameplan - mystifying that the men in blazers at the top haven't spend some money on a great backs coach from the Super 15 - there are plenty of them knocking about.

Scotland - third pool in the RWC seedings now and we only have ourselves to blame. Same old problems - Robinson is still not brave enough to pick the form players in Scotland and the new defensive system that we are apparently 'switching to' neccesitates us abandoning the one aspect of our game that meant we came through the Pacific Islands tour unbeaten. We cannot seem to cut out the stupid mistakes or retain intensity for a full 80 minutes. Scotland will either come 2nd or 3rd in the Six Nations or last - no other result seems to be possible for this team.

Positives include what is now undisputably a settled first choice front row of Grant, Ford and Murray whose scrum mashed the Springboks into the mud; Gray proving that class is permenant, Denton getting his mojo back and Visser showing that it is completely counter-intuitive to suggest three seasons of domestic games against international players is apparently not adequate preparation for international games against international players.