Wales v All Blacks Match thread, Poll, and Previews

[maestegmafia]

First topic message reminder :

So this week saw the fans calls for players unused the week before who are in form this season answered and we lost to Samoa, we also lost more players to injury.

So what next...?

Wales offered little in impetus yet again. Few of the form players made a difference against Samoa. Wales have to make a massive improvement in every aspect of their game for next weeks match vs the ABs but what are your suggestions...???

Wales team:
Leigh Halfpenny; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North; Rhys Priestland, Mike Phillips; Paul James, Matthew Rees, Aaron Jarvis, Bradley Davies, Luke Charteris, Ryan Jones, Sam Warburton (captain), Toby Faletau

Replacements:
Ken Owens, Gethin Jenkins, Scott Andrews, Aaron Shingler, Justin Tipuric, Tavis Knoyle, James Hook, Scott Williams


New Zealand team:
Israel Dagg, Cory Jane, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Daniel Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw, Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Luke Romano, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock.

Replacements: Dane Coles, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Brodie Retallick, Victor Vito, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith.

[anotherworldofpain]

I agree - Hore was clearing out a player who was lazy running. It happens all the time. Aside from being a little high, there's not much wrong with it. Accidents happen, it's a contact sport.

I agree he deserves a week off to think about it, but aside from that I thought Hore had a very good game. Scrummaged well and was a terrier in the breakdown. NZ certainly suffered when he was substituted for Coles.

[eirebilly]

You are a cheeky scamp AWOP

[LondonTiger]

I agree - Hore was clearing out a player who was lazy running. It happens all the time. Aside from being a little high, there's not much wrong with it. Accidents happen, it's a contact sport.

Saying something over and over does not make it true.

If the same thing had happened in reverse you woul dbe screaming for a lifetime ban.

[anotherworldofpain]

If they same thing happened in reverse, you'd be defending it.

[PJHolybloke]

Careful Morgan. Every country has some bad apples. Could go on about Andy Powell on McCaw here for an eg.

AWOP I don't give a stuff really about that. Two wrongs don't make a right. Hore should get four to six weeks. Of course Greyling should have had longer but new precedents have to be set to better deal with inconsistencies.

You have to start somewhere and invariably someone will be cheesed off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6xxo75RkCw

Not without a history himself, this Bradley Davies. I put it to you that he knew just what he was doing approaching the AB ruck from the wrong side...

https://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3D53e2iQdI2AM

If he gets caught, he's looking at time. Gender and the pavement aside, there's not a massive difference in the two events.

Congratulations Mr Hore, you're possibly the second most cowardly assailant in the UK this week, and you also have awop as your defence counsel; just when you thought things couldn't get any worse.

[gavstar]

just re-run the last bit
biggar has to start next week.

hook did his usual , running up and standing , hovering at rucks, not doing anything. 'seagulling' they used to call it. i'm involved, but not really!!! get in bloody position, man short now.

then hook joined the rest of the players in staying on the floor as long as possible after a ruck, and he'd only just come on!!!

the amount of time we spent getting up after rucks and tackles was pathetic. the ab's were up and away after every encounter. skill and speed won the game. sam warburton is actually in this bit i'm watching , on one knee watching the game go on around him!!!!

hooks hiding at the ruck again, tipps looking for someone to pick up the ball, no 9 again!!!! i'm putting this off seen it once , once was enough.

[bedfordwelsh]

If Biggar is fit he just has to start there is no other option.

Priestland was sheer shambles today his missing ntouch was inexcusable at any level let alone this level against the best team in the world. He must have been that bad because I was calling for Hook to come on though he done sod all either.

I will take my hat off to Scott Andrews, I have slated him previously and shuddered when seen him coming on but fair play I thought he had a good game.

Liam and Scott Williams both added something this week and I would be tempted to start both and leave Roberts on the bench.

Shingler proved that he should have started against Argentina ahead of Turnbull and McCusker and again I would be tempted to start him next week to.

[Guest]

The All Blacks have been offside since about 1903...

How long have Wales been crap then?

Since the early 90's... excluding 5N, 6N of course. I blame league!

Oh that's right I forgot. They'll hark back to the glory days of the 70s when they still didn't beat South Africa or NZ...

Didn't play South Africa in the 70's numb nuts

[emack2]

Having just watched the match a thoroughly enjoyable one I make the following Commments.
Andrew Hore hitting a man with a swinging forearm[or punch]will surely invite a citing as it should be.If seen he would cetainly have seen at least Yellow but more likely Red.
BUT before Wales fans start the holier than thou bit in the same passage of play Aron Smith was taken out off the ball.Indeed I lost count of the number of times Wales players took ABs out after the ball had gone.Also the tactic of 3 players sitting on McCaw after the ball was cleared from the breakdown area was cynical.
The ABs of course were doing similar things but it was`nt one sided as the cheating AB bit starts all over again.
Wales were a lot better than the last two games and if they had taken the points
at least another 16 points were there especially first half.
To go for the corner instead establish an early lead foolhardy,and to kick two of those dead criminal.
But for all there bravery the result was seldom in doubt they took there two tries well especially the 15 man lineout.
The AllBlacks after going 33 points up and started clearing the bench lost some shape.BUT in the period of Cory Janes Yellow card they could have easily taken another 12 points in penalties 3 of those at least were gimmes.
On to Twickenham, several players including Woodcock and Cruden limped off so could be a shadow team next week.No Carter or Cruden,Barrett starting with may be Weepu acting as 10.

[maestegmafia]

Bedford I can't believe you are slating Priestland. I thought he played a very good game.

Wales were unlucky, all blacks were precise.

[wales606]

I will take my hat off to Scott Andrews, I have slated him previously and shuddered when seen him coming on but fair play I thought he had a good game.

Excellent point - Andrews had a very good game.

He has always been good in the loose, but he matched it in the scrum today. The penalties the welsh scrum gave away seemed to come from Paul James side aswell.

Its good, since he is likely to start next week with Adam out and Jarvis likely injured.

Props need time to become good scrummagers and dare I say that S.Andrews has improved a LOT over the last year and is still only 23

[maestegmafia]

I agree Andrews did well, surpassed expectations. As did most the team.

We lost by giving away penalties, many of those were highly debatable decisions by an inept referee, plus one try.

[TycroesOsprey]

I think there are positives from this and the team may learn some hard lessons. We were still flat in the first half and really didn't match the intensity of the All Blacks until the game was lost. We really need to start better although three injuries in 10 minutes knocked them.

Our game management was poor, Aside from the two missed touch finders RP was better than he has been. They should have taken the points on offer early on. Execution was still not sharp enough especially in the first half. Roberts has been a shadow of himself and needs to find some form. Scott Williams made an instant impact. JD showed what we have been missing in the last two games. Even so we looked like what we are, a young team having a bit of a crisis in confidence. Liam Williams take and give in one movement to free Cuthbert was pure class though.

The tight head debate is still up for grabs with Andrews doing better today, Mitchell and Adam to come back from injury and Samson waiting in the wings.

For all the tribulations that defeats bring and the handwringing of fans and pundits, I think this Welsh team will emerge much stronger from this Autumn. The added bonus is we have a lot of players to come back in for the six nations.

All in all the scoreline was about right, but I cant help thinking that in a parallel universe, Hore got a red card, RP hit the touchline and the 13 man move worked in the first couple of minutes and wales went on to win against 14 men.

Team for Australia.

1. James,
2. Smiler
3. Andrews (has to be after today)
4. Ian Evans
5. Charteris
6. Ryan Jones
7. Warburton (C)
8. Faletau
9. Tavis (Phillips if available)
10. Priestland
11. North
12. JD
13. Scott Williams
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Gethin
17. Owens
18. Samson Lee
19. Shingler
20. Tipuric
21. Williams or Tavis
22. Biggar
23. Liam Williams

[anotherworldofpain]

All in all the scoreline was about right, but I cant help thinking that in a parallel universe, Hore got a red card, RP hit the touchline and the 13 man move worked in the first couple of minutes and wales went on to win against 14 men.

On their day TO, on their day...

[PJHolybloke]

Having just watched the match a thoroughly enjoyable one I make the following Commments.
Andrew Hore hitting a man with a swinging forearm[or punch]will surely invite a citing as it should be.If seen he would cetainly have seen at least Yellow but more likely Red.
BUT before Wales fans start the holier than thou bit in the same passage of play Aron Smith was taken out off the ball.Indeed I lost count of the number of times Wales players took ABs out after the ball had gone.Also the tactic of 3 players sitting on McCaw after the ball was cleared from the breakdown area was cynical.
The ABs of course were doing similar things but it was`nt one sided as the cheating AB bit starts all over again.
Wales were a lot better than the last two games and if they had taken the points
at least another 16 points were there especially first half.
To go for the corner instead establish an early lead foolhardy,and to kick two of those dead criminal.
But for all there bravery the result was seldom in doubt they took there two tries well especially the 15 man lineout.
The AllBlacks after going 33 points up and started clearing the bench lost some shape.BUT in the period of Cory Janes Yellow card they could have easily taken another 12 points in penalties 3 of those at least were gimmes.
On to Twickenham, several players including Woodcock and Cruden limped off so could be a shadow team next week.No Carter or Cruden,Barrett starting with may be Weepu acting as 10.

FFS!!!

Knocking a man unconscious from behind is a filthy, dirty, cowardly act of extremely low moral fibre. Pinch yourself and tell it like it was, any man worth his salt would at least have the balls to look his victim in the eyes.

Hore is chicken schitt, and anyone who defends him is in the same basket.

McCaw hardly committed at the breakdown today and when he went anywhere near it he ended up standing on the wrong side between the SH and first receiver.

Honestly. talk aboutwriting schitt aboutagame that you dontseem tyo have wchted.its like your keyboard.has a mind ofitsown.

newzeeland down to 14 min after 90seconds of play would have beenan accurit representshion oftherulues.

[Ospreydragon]

NZ is a fantastic team, but they certainly had the rub of the green in that first half, which gave them momentum and I think a flattering scoreline. Hore should have been redcarded -- that alone would have changed the momentum of the match, if not the result. It would have been interesting to see how NZ would have played almost an entire match with 14 men. That should have happened. The pen against Warbs later in the half was ridiculous. I thought there was a forward pass in the move for the first NZ try but will look at it again.

All that said, this is a great NZ side, but I think they are beatable. Wales lost 3 players to injury very early on, which really didn't help their cause. But there is no excuse for Priestland to miss touch kicks that badly. The knock ons by various players -- the failure to execute such basic skills is what separates NZ from the likes of Wales.

I do wonder what the coaches will learn from that match about Wales' players. I was pleased to see Liam W get a start -- he is a good, developing FB, good positionally and under the high ball, with good footwork, who has a bit if guile. He brings variety and he is aggressive in contact. For me, Halfpenny is not suited to the FB position -- his running style is not varied and he does not have the physical presence I want at FB. JD brought a lot and was missed in the first 2 games. Shingler was good. The coaches need to pick a more balanced side -- we need athletic players with great footwork who can do the basics as well as the unpredictable.

[gavstar]

MAES YOU SAID WALES WERE UNLUCKY!!!!!!!
WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we were out played everywhere!!!!
its because people like you refuse to accept where we are at, and what we need to do, that we are not world beaters.

[MarcusHalberstram]

Wales were outplayed - but they WERE unlucky. The two are not mutually exclusive. If the first two mins had been reffed effectively (and/or if Wales had gobe for posts early on) we could have been looking at a different result. Whales were nowhere near their best, but NZ were pretty average also - and certainly had the rub of the green. The score was not really an accurate portrayal of the match.

[aucklandlaurie]

I didnt think it was too bad a game, ABs had all the momentum in the first half and wales came out and got some momentum in the second. However i do think that if Hore had of been red crded at the outset the ABs still would have had the ability to get the points to win at the end of 80.

two questions for wales

1 . Why on Earth did you let your coach go off and coach the Lions? it is killing your team.

2. Do young welsh rugby players not learn the meaning and benefits of accuracy?

[BigTrevsbigmac]

Wales were outplayed - but they WERE unlucky. The two are not mutually exclusive. If the first two mins had been reffed effectively (and/or if Wales had gobe for posts early on) we could have been looking at a different result. Whales were nowhere near their best, but NZ were pretty average also - and certainly had the rub of the green. The score was not really an accurate portrayal of the match.

If Wales had made the right decisions
If Wales had gone for the points
If Wales had the rub of the green
If Wales had played with accuracy.


They didn't . They were outclassed & weren't unlucky accept it.

Wales have been very unlucky with injuries & with those players back & other players getting some form back they will be better in the future.
ABs thoroughly deserved their victory & were 21 points better on the day.

[Biltong]

OK, the match is over, what's next?

Is North available next weekend, I agree Biggar if available should get a start. This match against Australia is a very vital match for Wales, one they somply must win.

[maestegmafia]

MAES YOU SAID WALES WERE UNLUCKY!!!!!!!
WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we were out played everywhere!!!!
its because people like you refuse to accept where we are at, and what we need to do, that we are not world beaters.

Calm down mate...

And don't start accusing pointless BS "People like you" rubbish that my opinion stops Wales winning more games. That a ridiculous statement.


We were out played but what i meant by unlucky was the list of injuries we suffered, a few for no fault of our own. In like the six penalties, and three tries we conceded all from welsh errors.


Brad Davies kO'd

Aaron Jarvis knee injury

Ryan jones eye injury

Jamie Roberts hip injury

[bedfordwelsh]

Team for Australia.

1. James,
2. Smiler
3. Andrews (has to be after today)
4. Ian Evans
5. Charteris
6. Ryan Jones
7. Warburton (C)
8. Faletau
9. Tavis (Phillips if available)
10. Priestland
11. North
12. JD
13. Scott Williams
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Gethin
17. Owens
18. Samson Lee
19. Shingler
20. Tipuric
21. Williams or Tavis
22. Biggar
23. Liam Williams

Tycroes,

Unless I have missed something neither James nor Jenkins are available nest week so we need to different props, I am guessing Bevington will start but not sure who will replace Jenkins on the bench.

I would be tempted to leave North on the bench and give Williams another run out as he had a very good game.

I may have been a bit harsh on Priestland but his two missed kicks to touch were in-excusable and if fit I would start Biggar

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

I guess Hook isnt available is he?

Could shingler get that call up ...

[George Carlin]

Lots of angry stuff here. I actually thought that Wales played well, just that they were up against one of the best teams in the modern era and had no luck on the day.

I don't think there's any reason for Wales to panic. When the Hair Bear gets back and Gethin starts getting first team rugby again, the platform will solidify and in Evans and Charteris you have a solid pair of hard men as a platform if they can just get some game time together. Toby needs to get his swing back quite badly but in Tipuric and Warbuton, there are two quality players fighting for the openside berth.

Halfback hinge needs work though. It's no secret that I'm not a Philips fan and the slow ball he provides was always offset by his barnstorming runs - he doesn't seem to be offering that advantage any more and Priestland has been caught looking like a rabbit in the headlights at an absolutely static field. Surely someone like Rees who ran the show at the weekend when Edinburgh hammered the Ospreys is worth another look.

Your 10 has to be Biggar. I can't see that there's much debate left to be had.

[maestegmafia]

Team for Australia.

1. James,
2. Smiler
3. Andrews (has to be after today)
4. Ian Evans
5. Charteris
6. Ryan Jones
7. Warburton (C)
8. Faletau
9. Tavis (Phillips if available)
10. Priestland
11. North
12. JD
13. Scott Williams
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Gethin
17. Owens
18. Samson Lee
19. Shingler
20. Tipuric
21. Williams or Tavis
22. Biggar
23. Liam Williams

Tycroes,

Unless I have missed something neither James nor Jenkins are available nest week so we need to different props, I am guessing Bevington will start but not sure who will replace Jenkins on the bench.

I would be tempted to leave North on the bench and give Williams another run out as he had a very good game.

I may have been a bit harsh on Priestland but his two missed kicks to touch were in-excusable and if fit I would start Biggar

I think they were excusable. Stupid, errant and costly but there was so much more to his game than that.he needs to work incredibly hard on his kicking, we don't want those mistakes. But 90% of his kicking was sublime, precise and intelligent.

Knoyle made a great case for his inclusion too.

[bedfordwelsh]

I guess Hook isnt available is he?

Could shingler get that call up ...

Peter,

I don't think he nor Phillips are available, there was a deal releasing Charteris but not heard anything about the other two plus James and Jenkins are out as well.

I would rather them call up young Morgan from the O's or Steffan Jones from the Dragons than Shingler, I guess all will depend on Biggars fitness.

[bedfordwelsh]

Sorry Maes you ask any forward what they reaction would be if their 10 messed up like that.

They were school boy errors and not excusable at all ay any level let alone this level against the best in the world.

[maestegmafia]

Why isn't Steffan Jones playing for the dragons at the moment? They keep picking Robling instead!

[bedfordwelsh]

Who knows what is going on through Edwards' head at the moment.

[emack2]

PJHOLYBROKE,did you watch the match?I am not defending Hore just telling it like it is.Certainly with 14 men it would have been a huge challenge for the AB`s.
Wales put up a brave display BUT were every bit as cynical as NZ in there tactics.Joubert had a good match but made the odd mistake at least as far as the commentators were concerned.
BUT,ask yourself this do you really think NZ would have stripped there bench so early.IF they had been behind or had a narrow lead at half time,orNOT taken at least another 12 points if they wanted too.
.

[maestegmafia]

Sorry Maes you ask any forward what they reaction would be if their 10 messed up like that.

They were school boy errors and not excusable at all ay any level let alone this level against the best in the world.

I don't disagree but I definitely would not play Biggar over Priestland. Biggar is not as good at reading the opposition, creating opportunities and most importantly getting the back line into the game.

[maestegmafia]

Who knows what is going on through Edwards' head at the moment.

It's at that stage is it? Such a shame. There is so much promise at the Dragons.

I would love to see Mike Ruddock return.

[aucklandlaurie]

Also another good display of refereeing by Craig Joubert.

[maestegmafia]

Also another good display of refereeing by Craig Joubert.

No, not a bad one at all. Joubert was very good.

Bar missing Hore's incident that should have seen a red card. But that was so late and off the ball he was unlikely to see it.

[GavinDragon]

anyone think that for the briefest of moments the welsh players remembered the thing that comes most naturally to us as a rugby nation? 'Playing with the ball in hand', its a shame that it took 60 minutes and the game to be lost for us to remember. For a couple of brief moments we actually looked comfortable attacking with the ball in our hands like im sure many players have been taught since they were mini's.

It just a shame that professional coaching overides these instincts and they are petrified to play anyway outside of the 'pattern' that they are coached

[bedfordwelsh]

Gameplan or not why the hell we turned those early chances down, it wouldn't have made one difference to final score but you take the points when on offer.

[GavinDragon]

totally agree bedford, it was just a further observation.

But under the current set up we do seem to lack the natural flair ad vision we used to be known for.

I know its useless to compare past teams but the post 2005 team had all flair and no grunt/platform/go forward. This team has parity in those areas but seems unable to convert those into points when its on.

Is it the decision making of the players, or is it over coaching?

And im talking about welsh performances in general of late as opposed to this game in particular.

However if we make good decisions and keep ball in hand when it is on against the wallabies we will ask them a few questions

[rainbow-warrior]

The comedy series featuring the Welsh rugby team will be ending next week on the BBC. It started with Warburton saying that Wales can win all 4 games, before promptly being beaten at home by Argentina (recently battered by Ireland), Samoa, New Zealand (scoring less points than Scotland did) and will culminate in a hammering to the Aussies. A second series is commissioned for early 2013.

The Welsh rugby team - better comedy than Only Fools and Horses!

..and the farce they call england are what exactly? Beaten Fiji, jolly well done what what. If Wales are the comedy series, england must be laughing stock. I await your hammering next week.

[eirebilly]

I think that Wales have a good chance to beat the Aussies. The Aussies look a shambles right now so Wales could get a win in. Priestland must not start though. The difference Hook made when he came on was more than noticable.

[GavinDragon]

yes but again billy by the time he came on as a team we were running everything as the game was lost.

would hook have done anything different had he been on in the first half (alright he probably would have made the touch finders) but i mean in terms of the decision to kick or run the ball. Would he have made better decisions? Would he have been allowed to? How much of the game plan is so rigid players are unable or unwilling to try things for fear of making mistakes?

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

The comedy series featuring the Welsh rugby team will be ending next week on the BBC. It started with Warburton saying that Wales can win all 4 games, before promptly being beaten at home by Argentina (recently battered by Ireland), Samoa, New Zealand (scoring less points than Scotland did) and will culminate in a hammering to the Aussies. A second series is commissioned for early 2013.

The Welsh rugby team - better comedy than Only Fools and Horses!

..and the farce they call england are what exactly? Beaten Fiji, jolly well done what what. If Wales are the comedy series, england must be laughing stock. I await your hammering next week.

Sigh, can't we just agree that neither team are very good and move on from the tedious bickering. Because those last couple of posts really reflect worse on the respective posters than anything else.

[Casartelli]

Priestland is becoming our worst ever No.10

Do you genuinely think so?

Yep.

[eirebilly]

yes but again billy by the time he came on as a team we were running everything as the game was lost.

would hook have done anything different had he been on in the first half (alright he probably would have made the touch finders) but i mean in terms of the decision to kick or run the ball. Would he have made better decisions? Would he have been allowed to? How much of the game plan is so rigid players are unable or unwilling to try things for fear of making mistakes?

You know Gavin, i think that he would have made a difference. Priestland looked absolutely shell shocked in the first half, looked like a player massively down on confidence. I actually thought that he had a pretty good second half up to his subbing though.

[bedfordwelsh]

Hook done nothing when he came on yesterday.

[Higher_Ground]

Sorry Maes you ask any forward what they reaction would be if their 10 messed up like that.

They were school boy errors and not excusable at all ay any level let alone this level against the best in the world.

I don't disagree but I definitely would not play Biggar over Priestland. Biggar is not as good at reading the opposition, creating opportunities and most importantly getting the back line into the game.

I can't tell if you are being ironic or not. If not, then you must be f*****g kidding me. If I see this 'Biggar can't get a backline moving' nonsense one more time, I'll puke.
He's 'created the opportunities' for two league titles and none of the Ospreys backs were short of tries. Priestland wasn't a COMPLETE disaster yesterday, and that's the best that can be said, although he has the ability to be very good.

[eirebilly]

Biggar cant get his back line moving

I cant agree with that, i would defo start him over Priestland if fit.

[aucklandlaurie]

Got an email from my son a couple of hours agowho was at the game,his first time at a rugby game in the Northern hemisphere.

Reckons the crowd make such a racket singing that you cant concentrate on the rugby. doesnt know how they do it.

[eirebilly]

Aaah Laurie, a match at the Millenium stadium s something else. The Welsh do know how to create an atmosphere at the games

[TycroesOsprey]

Team for Australia.

1. James,
2. Smiler
3. Andrews (has to be after today)
4. Ian Evans
5. Charteris
6. Ryan Jones
7. Warburton (C)
8. Faletau
9. Tavis (Phillips if available)
10. Priestland
11. North
12. JD
13. Scott Williams
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Gethin
17. Owens
18. Samson Lee
19. Shingler
20. Tipuric
21. Williams or Tavis
22. Biggar
23. Liam Williams

Tycroes,

Unless I have missed something neither James nor Jenkins are available nest week so we need to different props, I am guessing Bevington will start but not sure who will replace Jenkins on the bench.

I would be tempted to leave North on the bench and give Williams another run out as he had a very good game.

I may have been a bit harsh on Priestland but his two missed kicks to touch were in-excusable and if fit I would start Biggar

Ah I forgot about James but isn't a deal being done with Toulon for Gethins availability? I recall reading about it a few days ago. I think you have to bring North back as his threat against the Ozzies will be needed but Liam W had an excellent game which should have convinced a few of the doubters. If Halfpenny wasn't also our kicker then I would give LW a run at full back with Cuthbert and North alongside him, Halfpenny hasn't been at his best this autumn.

Im not too despondent about this Autumn, there are a few players who have enhanced their reputations, Andrews, L Williams, Biggar, Shingler and Jarvis in particular. Most of the players for one reason or another have been off their best and a few have really let themselves down. Roberts has been poor all series and I am still not convinced by him at 12. Howley is a big concern as a coach and they need someone to come in alongside him to assist his development. At one point Brian Ashton was mooted as a consultant to asist Howley as backs coach, I really wish they had done that as Ashton could really get our talented backs playing.

So far Ive expected the defeats but I will stick my neck out and say if wales match the intensity of the second half yesterday then they will beat Australia a poor return on the Autumn but a fair indication of our form. This young team will learn and get better for the defeats though.

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