Piers Francis signs for Edinburgh

by caz Tue 20 Nov 2012, 10:58 am

22yr old Waikato Chiefs stand-off.

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 20 Nov 2012, 11:23 am

by Pat_Mustard Tue 20 Nov 2012, 11:24 am

Know if he's any good? Can't see any mention of being Scottish qualified. He'd better be good if he's going to be limiting the game time of Leonard and Hunter who Scotland really need to develop. Not exactly a big name signing but I'd always give new guys the benefit of the doubt

by caz Tue 20 Nov 2012, 11:27 am

No idea. Was hoping someone else would! English qualified according to ER.

by cp10 Tue 20 Nov 2012, 11:38 am

Saw him play during the ITM Cup. He did seem good but not in the same class as the guys called in to the S15 squads.

He's got all round skills. Decent from hand and can spread it wide when needs to.

Wasn't the set place kicker as the full back did most of the kicking. They expect an 80% kicks taken/scored record from a player.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 20 Nov 2012, 11:51 am

Pat_Mustard wrote:Know if he's any good? Can't see any mention of being Scottish qualified. He'd better be good if he's going to be limiting the game time of Leonard and Hunter who Scotland really need to develop. Not exactly a big name signing but I'd always give new guys the benefit of the doubt

I assume that he will be eligible to become Scottish in three years, and only be 25/26 when he is Scottish Qualified.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 20 Nov 2012, 12:27 pm

Is this a sign that the Laidlaw at 10 experiment is over or at least likely to have a short shelf-life? Or is it more an indication of lack of confidence in the other two youngsters, Leonard and Hunter, and we've now got a 3-horse race on or hands at Embra? Difficult to gauge at the mo Headscratch

by EST Tue 20 Nov 2012, 12:39 pm

Strange signing, this one - neither Scottish qualified or with a particularly fantastic resume. It would suggest that there is little confidence in either Hunter or Leonard.

In such an important position, we really need to be developing 10's who can play for Scotland. Maybe this wouldn't go down too well in Edinburgh, but would it not make sense to transfer Jackson to the Gunners; leaving Weir and Wight to play for the Glasgow shirt and Jackson, Leonard and Hunter vying for the position at Edinburgh. Might not be practical, but would seem to be a good use of resources. What do my Edinburgh brethren think? Would you even want Jackson?

by formerly known as Sam Tue 20 Nov 2012, 2:01 pm

He'd better be good if he's going to be limiting the game time of Leonard and Hunter who Scotland really need to develop

Scotland have nicked Heathcote so are probably more relaxed in terms of long term 10 options at the minute.

by **RDW** Tue 20 Nov 2012, 2:08 pm

I do hope this isn't another average foreigner who will be costing us a lot of money.

Also makes me think that there is no confidence in Leonard or Hunter, as has been said.

Waiting to hear from some Kiwis on this one!

by nickj Tue 20 Nov 2012, 2:21 pm

EST wrote:Strange signing, this one - neither Scottish qualified or with a particularly fantastic resume. It would suggest that there is little confidence in either Hunter or Leonard.

In such an important position, we really need to be developing 10's who can play for Scotland. Maybe this wouldn't go down too well in Edinburgh, but would it not make sense to transfer Jackson to the Gunners; leaving Weir and Wight to play for the Glasgow shirt and Jackson, Leonard and Hunter vying for the position at Edinburgh. Might not be practical, but would seem to be a good use of resources. What do my Edinburgh brethren think? Would you even want Jackson?

I've always thought this was an option if Wright kicked on and showed some form. He has done just that this season, so I wouldn't be against it.

It would be good to hear some background on this guy though...

by Guest Tue 20 Nov 2012, 3:09 pm

As Heathcote has decided he will play for Scotland, Edinburgh should sign him up.

Whilst I would not have wanted him to leave Bath, he will be an asset to which ever Scot franchise takes him on. He has the full range of skills and being on the small side is brave too, having been knocked out taking on (and stopping) flankers twice his size.

I am starting to wonder which other Bath academy players have a Scots link....

by **RDW** Tue 20 Nov 2012, 3:16 pm

Would have been pretty happy with Heathcote (although I just found out who he was yesterday!) but on the other side he'd just be yet another promising young 10 at Edinburgh not getting regular game time.

Happy for him to fight it out at Bath for another few years!

by funnyExiledScot Tue 20 Nov 2012, 3:19 pm

Don't follow this signing at all. Can't glasgow have him and we'll have maitland!!

Can only agree that they must be thinking of shifting laidlaw back to 9. Either that or leonard is being thought of more at centre.

Edinburgh seem to be amassing options in the backs. Problem is that none of the options are currently compelling.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 20 Nov 2012, 3:21 pm

Agreed on heathcote, happy for him to continue to develop at bath. Edinburgh have a bunch of 10s to develop already.

by Scot Abroad Tue 20 Nov 2012, 3:27 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Don't follow this signing at all. Can't glasgow have him and we'll have maitland!!

Can only agree that they must be thinking of shifting laidlaw back to 9. Either that or leonard is being thought of more at centre.

Edinburgh seem to be amassing options in the backs. Problem is that none of the options are currently compelling.

Don't you start that! Get your paws away from our Sean boxing

So apparently the kid moved to NZ in 2009 after being in the Saracens academy. Does anyone know if he actually made the Chiefs super XV squad at any point? It really does look like Laidlaw will be making the move back to 9. After seeing the dire performance of Blair at the weekend this could be a good thing. Our 3 main scrumhalfs are pushing retirement age and all we have in line in Pyrgos. We need Laidlaw to get back to 9 and stay there. With Weir, Heathcote and Jackson we have options at flyhalf.

by Kingshu Tue 20 Nov 2012, 4:11 pm

Don't think Piers Francais will be any good, if he was he'd have gone to Glasgow.

by EWT Spoons Tue 20 Nov 2012, 4:21 pm

When did Heathcote confirm he was going to play for Scotland? I think I may have missed this chat.

In terms of Piers Francis, it seems a strange signing as I'm not convinced Laidlaw will move back to 9, after all the work put in getting him to play Stand off. I'm probably wrong, but I suspect that he's been brought in to cover for when Laidlaw is away/rested, as Bradley hasn’t shown much faith in Leonard or Hunter so not sure he rates them.

Will be interesting to see what happens.

by **RDW** Tue 20 Nov 2012, 4:25 pm

I don't think Laidlaw will be moving back to 9 - surely they wouldn't leave Edinburgh with 3 young guys fighting over the 10 spot? If they are going to move him back it would be crazy to leave Edinburgh with no experienced 10.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 20 Nov 2012, 4:47 pm

Kingshu wrote:Don't think Piers Francais will be any good, if he was he'd have gone to Glasgow.

by Scot Abroad Tue 20 Nov 2012, 4:50 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Kingshu wrote:Don't think Piers Francais will be any good, if he was he'd have gone to Glasgow.

Touche!

Could they be looking at making Laidlaw one of those 9/10s that we see with Michalak and Parra?

by formerly known as Sam Tue 20 Nov 2012, 5:26 pm

When did Heathcote confirm he was going to play for Scotland? I think I may have missed this chat.

When he accepted a call up to the Scotland squad.

Good 10 don't think he needs much development just experience. He was clearly better than Donald for Bath last season.

by **George Carlin** Tue 20 Nov 2012, 6:55 pm

Utterly bonkers signing. If I was Leonard I would get the hell out of there.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 20 Nov 2012, 7:00 pm

Actually in retrospect I don't think he could have gone to glasgow instead. Imagine a chap callwd piers in glasgow - can't see schizoid warming to him!

by justified sinner Tue 20 Nov 2012, 7:21 pm

What's the UMM done now, he has Leonard, Hunter and Hidalgo Clyne as young 10s coming through, so he goes and signs another unproven 20 year old really don't understand this at all.

by LeinsterFan4life Tue 20 Nov 2012, 7:22 pm

Would Tom Heathcote not be a better signing?

by Scot Abroad Tue 20 Nov 2012, 7:26 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Would Tom Heathcote not be a better signing?

He wouldn't leave Bath when he's in with a shot at starting now he's back to full fitness.

by **RDW** Tue 20 Nov 2012, 9:23 pm

This signing reminds me of a couple of years ago when we brought Alex Grove to Edinburgh even though we had something like 6 centers on the books.

We've already got 2 stand offs that fit the young/development/starting to flourish bill - why get another??

Surely we could have lasted until the end of the season and saved the money for someone better?

by Cryptoyourisan Wed 21 Nov 2012, 1:03 am

FFS, Edinburgh!

There is no direction with the signings they are making! What is the rationale of signing yet another stand-off when Hunter and Leonard aren't getting a game? None of Black, Lech, Francis, Heathcote, Leonard and Rees are actually Scottish. I can accept that Scottish rugby has always had to pilfer players from England but when about a quarter of the half-backs at one of two Scottish clubs (Matawalu and Pyrgos at Glasgow as well) have been brought in from other countries, you really have to doubt that the SRU have any attention of trying to improve player development in Scotland.

by Captain_Sensible Wed 21 Nov 2012, 6:48 am

Cryptoyourisan wrote:

FFS, Edinburgh!

There is no direction with the signings they are making! What is the rationale of signing yet another stand-off when Hunter and Leonard aren't getting a game? None of Black, Lech, Francis, Heathcote, Leonard and Rees are actually Scottish. I can accept that Scottish rugby has always had to pilfer players from England but when about a quarter of the half-backs at one of two Scottish clubs (Matawalu and Pyrgos at Glasgow as well) have been brought in from other countries, you really have to doubt that the SRU have any attention of trying to improve player development in Scotland.

FFS, Crypt!

All the players in bold were either born in Scotland or qualify through parentage. Pay attention!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 21 Nov 2012, 6:57 am

Cryptoyourisan wrote:

FFS, Edinburgh!

There is no direction with the signings they are making! What is the rationale of signing yet another stand-off when Hunter and Leonard aren't getting a game? None of Black, Lech, Francis, Heathcote, Leonard and Rees are actually Scottish. I can accept that Scottish rugby has always had to pilfer players from England but when about a quarter of the half-backs at one of two Scottish clubs (Matawalu and Pyrgos at Glasgow as well) have been brought in from other countries, you really have to doubt that the SRU have any attention of trying to improve player development in Scotland.

I've missed a signing, who is this Francis character?

by **RDW** Wed 21 Nov 2012, 7:44 am

Nobody knows asbo! Normally the kiwis have something to say but I'm kinda concerned that they haven't - obviously don't know who he is either!

If anyone is talking to some kiwis on another thread and they know who the guy is, please ask them to come on here and fill us in!

by Kingshu Wed 21 Nov 2012, 8:40 am

I'd be concerned that so little appears to be known of him, even Saracens fans may remember him fro acamady, but no ones said to much.

by EST Wed 21 Nov 2012, 8:43 am

The more I think about this signing, the less sense it makes. He may be a very good player - but so might Leonard and Hunter given the right development. He is more or less at the same stage in his career as them both, or so it seems.

This smacks of a lack of foresight and desperation from Bradley.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 21 Nov 2012, 8:59 am

In fairness to Bradley (and I don't think he's doing a good job), but this signing may have been imposed on him from above?

by aucklandlaurie Wed 21 Nov 2012, 9:06 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Nobody knows asbo! Normally the kiwis have something to say but I'm kinda concerned that they haven't - obviously don't know who he is either!

If anyone is talking to some kiwis on another thread and they know who the guy is, please ask them to come on here and fill us in!

This guy was playing for the Marist club in Auckland for a while (about 2 years ago) and got a few off the bench runs for Aucklands ITM team, he played first five eigth, He wouldnt have played any super14/15.I never took much notice of him after he went to Waikato.

The thing is I doubt if Edinburgh are paying a lot of money for him, so you guys can relax on thinking that he is draining funds that could be spent on you "own" players. It is made more than clear to New Zealanders going to either Edinburg and Glasgow that they may have to play out of position or on the bench in favour of Scottish players in accordance with your policy of trying to develop for the National team.

by EST Wed 21 Nov 2012, 9:29 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:In fairness to Bradley (and I don't think he's doing a good job), but this signing may have been imposed on him from above?

This could well be true Asbo. My rationale for thinking otherwise is that he doesn't appear to fit any of the criteria as a potential (dreaded phrase) "project player" i.e no real pedigree or proven experience; he also doesn't appear to have any Scottish lineage.

by funnyExiledScot Wed 21 Nov 2012, 9:42 am

I think lineen is trying to destroy edinburgh from his new role. Absolutley the last thing we needed was an average 10 who doesn't qualify to play for scotland.

Could we not have signed a thunderous lock, a hardcore specialist 6, a top class game breaking 9, or a flying winger!?

by EWT Spoons Wed 21 Nov 2012, 9:57 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think lineen is trying to destroy edinburgh from his new role. Absolutley the last thing we needed was an average 10 who doesn't qualify to play for scotland.

Could we not have signed a thunderous lock, a hardcore specialist 6, a top class game breaking 9, or a flying winger!?

I actually think we do need a 10, as Laidlaw is still a 9 playing out of position, and Hunter and Leonard are possibly not ready to step up yet. However I don't think this lad is the player we needed. I haven't seen anything of him so could be proved wrong, he could be a stand off god, but I think we needed someone of higher pedigree to come in.

Still will give him a chance to see what he can do.

by Cryptoyourisan Wed 21 Nov 2012, 10:00 am

Captain_Sensible wrote:
Cryptoyourisan wrote:

FFS, Edinburgh!

There is no direction with the signings they are making! What is the rationale of signing yet another stand-off when Hunter and Leonard aren't getting a game? None of Black, Lech, Francis, Heathcote, Leonard and Rees are actually Scottish. I can accept that Scottish rugby has always had to pilfer players from England but when about a quarter of the half-backs at one of two Scottish clubs (Matawalu and Pyrgos at Glasgow as well) have been brought in from other countries, you really have to doubt that the SRU have any attention of trying to improve player development in Scotland.

FFS, Crypt!

All the players in bold were either born in Scotland or qualify through parentage. Pay attention!

Where a player is born really means nothing and parentage is a poor prerequisite for qualification.

by EWT Spoons Wed 21 Nov 2012, 10:27 am

Cryptoyourisan wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:
Cryptoyourisan wrote:

FFS, Edinburgh!

There is no direction with the signings they are making! What is the rationale of signing yet another stand-off when Hunter and Leonard aren't getting a game? None of Black, Lech, Francis, Heathcote, Leonard and Rees are actually Scottish. I can accept that Scottish rugby has always had to pilfer players from England but when about a quarter of the half-backs at one of two Scottish clubs (Matawalu and Pyrgos at Glasgow as well) have been brought in from other countries, you really have to doubt that the SRU have any attention of trying to improve player development in Scotland.

FFS, Crypt!

All the players in bold were either born in Scotland or qualify through parentage. Pay attention!

Where a player is born really means nothing and parentage is a poor prerequisite for qualification.

What point are you trying to make here?

You seem to be annoyed that the SRU are bringing in players from abroad to play for Scotland. You also seem to be suggesting that being born in a country or your parents being from that country shouldn't be a factor either. How else are you going to qualify? If living there, being from there or your parents being from there aren't good enough criteria!!!!

Also worth noting is that Heathcote doesn't play for Edinburgh (which again you seem to be suggesting he does) but was born in Scotland and probably had very little control over where he was brought up.

by **George Carlin** Wed 21 Nov 2012, 10:50 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think lineen is trying to destroy edinburgh from his new role. Absolutley the last thing we needed was an average 10 who doesn't qualify to play for scotland.

Could we not have signed a thunderous lock, a hardcore specialist 6, a top class game breaking 9, or a flying winger!?

Of course not, FES. That would fly in the face of everything that Edinburgh stands for.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 21 Nov 2012, 1:48 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:I think lineen is trying to destroy edinburgh from his new role. Absolutley the last thing we needed was an average 10 who doesn't qualify to play for scotland.

Could we not have signed a thunderous lock, a hardcore specialist 6, a top class game breaking 9, or a flying winger!?

I actually think we do need a 10, as Laidlaw is still a 9 playing out of position, and Hunter and Leonard are possibly not ready to step up yet. However I don't think this lad is the player we needed. I haven't seen anything of him so could be proved wrong, he could be a stand off god, but I think we needed someone of higher pedigree to come in.

Still will give him a chance to see what he can do.

Spoons, Hunter and Leonard may not be ready to step up yet, but is this guy likely to be any more ready? I doubt it (happy to be proved wrong, mind)

by **RDW** Wed 21 Nov 2012, 1:50 pm

Hunter and Leonard have barely had the chance to step up - Bradley has rotated them in and out of the team like a yoyo.

In my mind he should have decided he was going to stick with Leonard (more experienced and a better player IMO) and give him a good run of games - not bring him in and out of the team.

by EWT Spoons Wed 21 Nov 2012, 2:09 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:I think lineen is trying to destroy edinburgh from his new role. Absolutley the last thing we needed was an average 10 who doesn't qualify to play for scotland.

Could we not have signed a thunderous lock, a hardcore specialist 6, a top class game breaking 9, or a flying winger!?

I actually think we do need a 10, as Laidlaw is still a 9 playing out of position, and Hunter and Leonard are possibly not ready to step up yet. However I don't think this lad is the player we needed. I haven't seen anything of him so could be proved wrong, he could be a stand off god, but I think we needed someone of higher pedigree to come in.

Still will give him a chance to see what he can do.
Spoons, Hunter and Leonard may not be ready to step up yet, but is this guy likely to be any more ready? I doubt it (happy to be proved wrong, mind)

I might not have made my point clear, apologies.

What I was trying to say is that Edinburgh needed a 10, because the ones we have are possibly not ready yet. However I'm not sure if this lad is the answer. Someone more established for the young players to learn from to help their development in the longer term would have been my preferred solution.

Mind you as RDW says, they've not really been getting a chance in the team to develop.

So in summary - Needed a 10, don't think this is the right 10 though.

by funnyExiledScot Wed 21 Nov 2012, 2:59 pm

I think we need to stick with the three stand-offs we have and develop them, not just import a randon nsq player just because hunter and leonaed, neither given a proper chance haven't yet proven themselves. We need to be convincing our young talent to stay in scotland and show that they will be given a fair chance. Leonard and hunter won't make it if they don't play. You can't improve as a professional player without pro rugby. Bradley seemed to understand this with grant gilchrist and stuart mcinally, but less so with leonard and hunter. They will no doubt be disappointed with this signing, as they ahould be. No side should have more than 3 players in a position. One of hunter or leonard will surely now need to step down to the amateur lwagues, unless bradley is going to move laidlaw back as a 9.

by Scot Abroad Wed 21 Nov 2012, 4:18 pm

Gents, according to the Auckland rugby website this lad can also cover 12. Could it be that he's not being brought in strictly as a flyhalf and will be utilised as a ball playing 12 in order to cover for Scott when he's unavailable? It's pretty apparent that Atiga is useless and will probably not last after this season, bringing this lad in to play 12 and sometime 10 gives Embra more depth and more options.

by **RDW** Wed 21 Nov 2012, 4:24 pm

We have got Houston King to cover 12, but suppose they will never be more than squad players.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 21 Nov 2012, 5:47 pm

I dread to think how much Atiga is costing Edinburgh - what a complete waste if money!

by Majestic83 Wed 21 Nov 2012, 7:17 pm

Been reading the comments and I think this is a weird weird signing. I agree with a few that Edinburgh do need a 10 so that Laidlaw can go back to 9 which he prefers to play and is also where he plays far better.
The choice of 10 though is strange, a pretty much unknown player isn't going to excite the fans. If we were signing another 10 of this guys quality would we not have been better bringing someone like Lee Millar on board from Gala who has been the standout player in the Scottish Premier or even brought across Scott Wight from Glasgow?
The signings Edinburgh are making this season have not given me any confidence and seems as if there is no real structure or plan.
The money Edinburgh have spent on the new signings could have been far better used on better quality players who are Scottish qualified.
I read in the Scotsman Edinburgh now have 14 non scottish qualified players. For me that is definitely over the top especially as the quality of some of them is pretty poor! I'd like to know who does the scouting for Edinburgh?!

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