Piers Francis signs for Edinburgh

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22yr old Waikato Chiefs stand-off.

Majestic83 wrote:Been reading the comments and I think this is a weird weird signing. I agree with a few that Edinburgh do need a 10 so that Laidlaw can go back to 9 which he prefers to play and is also where he plays far better.
The choice of 10 though is strange, a pretty much unknown player isn't going to excite the fans. If we were signing another 10 of this guys quality would we not have been better bringing someone like Lee Millar on board from Gala who has been the standout player in the Scottish Premier or even brought across Scott Wight from Glasgow?
The signings Edinburgh are making this season have not given me any confidence and seems as if there is no real structure or plan.
The money Edinburgh have spent on the new signings could have been far better used on better quality players who are Scottish qualified.
I read in the Scotsman Edinburgh now have 14 non scottish qualified players. For me that is definitely over the top especially as the quality of some of them is pretty poor! I'd like to know who does the scouting for Edinburgh?!

+1

EWT Spoons wrote:

Cryptoyourisan wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:

Cryptoyourisan wrote:

FFS, Edinburgh!

There is no direction with the signings they are making! What is the rationale of signing yet another stand-off when Hunter and Leonard aren't getting a game? None of Black, Lech, Francis, Heathcote, Leonard and Rees are actually Scottish. I can accept that Scottish rugby has always had to pilfer players from England but when about a quarter of the half-backs at one of two Scottish clubs (Matawalu and Pyrgos at Glasgow as well) have been brought in from other countries, you really have to doubt that the SRU have any attention of trying to improve player development in Scotland.

FFS, Crypt!

All the players in bold were either born in Scotland or qualify through parentage. Pay attention!

Where a player is born really means nothing and parentage is a poor prerequisite for qualification.

What point are you trying to make here?

You seem to be annoyed that the SRU are bringing in players from abroad to play for Scotland. You also seem to be suggesting that being born in a country or your parents being from that country shouldn't be a factor either. How else are you going to qualify? If living there, being from there or your parents being from there aren't good enough criteria!!!!

Also worth noting is that Heathcote doesn't play for Edinburgh (which again you seem to be suggesting he does) but was born in Scotland and probably had very little control over where he was brought up.

Obviously I'm not suggesting that Heathcote plays for Edinburgh. I'm suggesting he's English and probably thinks he isn't good enough to play for England, so is playing it safe picking Scotland. I'm not entirely sure why either, seeing as he's only 20 and was last season making most pundits' short-lists for future England stand-offs. Without knowing him personally, I can only speculate on his national identity but the fact he recently played for England at age-grade level suggests he's not exactly a die-hard patriot because he was born in Inverness.

I am annoyed the SRU are bringing in players from abroad to play for Scotland. I wouldn't be too bothered with the odd foreign player here and there but it seems to me that the SRU are spending too much time scouring foreign leagues rather than trying to bring up the quality of the club game in Scotland. Ultimately I am concerned that if signings like this continue to be made, it will jeopardise domestic player development and probably reduce player numbers in Scotland.

With regards eligibility, I find having the right accent helps. It's not always possible but I still think it's a good thing we won't have a Scottish player with a Welsh accent doing interviews. Also, not coming up with contrived reasons for choosing to play for one country over another is quite encouraging to see in a player. At least Visser is fairly honest about his reasons for choosing Scotland over the Netherlands.

Cryptoyourisan wrote:
I am annoyed the SRU are bringing in players from abroad to play for Scotland. I wouldn't be too bothered with the odd foreign player here and there but it seems to me that the SRU are spending too much time scouring foreign leagues rather than trying to bring up the quality of the club game in Scotland. Ultimately I am concerned that if signings like this continue to be made, it will jeopardise domestic player development and probably reduce player numbers in Scotland.

Totally agree with this, plus the concerns over the quality of Edinburghs foreign legion. This is a really weird one, but he might be a gem. There's always a few gems in the lower ranks of NZ rugby just because the competition for Super Rugby places is so intense. But he could be just another journeyman NSQ player.

It's not sustainable to bring in so many average foreign players. The marquee signings are different, they can bring in casual fans, bring up the standard of the players around him, mentor younger guys. Guys like Rocky Elsom for Leinster, Ruan Pienaar for Ulster, Xavier Rush for Cardiff etc. Sure thats a big expense but you get it back on and off the field. If you are spending such a sizable chunk of your wage budget on non-Scottish qualified players who are just 'okay', either no better or not as good as what other sides have right now, you're not going to catch up with other sides who have stolen a march on you long term. And that money isn't being invested in the Academy and club game which you need to be strong long term.

So it kind of falls between two schools; neither a long-term nor short-term fix.

Agreed Notch - Edinburgh have 14 non Scots in the squad now, which seems like loads.

Absolutely agree that marquee names serve the purposes you describe - the iconic players are the ones that the youngsters learn from an fans want to see. Glasgow have done a better job in this regard with Stortoni, Strauss, Matawalu and Maitland.

Quite rare to have local heroes - the Lamonts and Richie Gray for Glasgow (and Blair/Chunk for Edinburgh) were the only ones that spring to mind. Great campaign for the 1872 Cup a couple of seasons ago where all of the kids wore RG masks and the Evening Times in Glasgow ran with the back page strapline "Let's make Glasgow a Gray Area".

Given that this signing has been made and Lee Millar isn't going to get a contract at Edinburgh or Glasgow, why don't we get Sean Lineen to use his contacts in the opposite direction - finding foreign clubs for young Scottish talents who there isn't room for in our 2 pro sides. Obviously I'd want the best to play for Edinburgh or Glasgow but until we have a third I'd like the good ones who don't quite make it to be picked up elsewhere. Newcastle have a record of signing young borderers, or there's London Scottish

Couldn't agree more Pat and this would possibly give some of the players not picked up by 18/late developers a chance to really give it a go because as much as you love the game even at premiership level it is still a hobby.

The simple answer is more pro-sides then foreign players can play for Edinburgh and Glasgow and raise the standard, allowing ir top players to play in the latter stages of the Heineken cup, whilst more Scots will be playing pro rugby and we'll have more strength in depth. I'm sure a team made up of expats and the top players in the league system would be more competitive than Zebre.

You've got to have the money though to pay those expats like Hamilton and Gray to return. We don't. Sadly that's the end of the debate.

Pat_Mustard wrote:Given that this signing has been made and Lee Millar isn't going to get a contract at Edinburgh or Glasgow, why don't we get Sean Lineen to use his contacts in the opposite direction - finding foreign clubs for young Scottish talents who there isn't room for in our 2 pro sides. Obviously I'd want the best to play for Edinburgh or Glasgow but until we have a third I'd like the good ones who don't quite make it to be picked up elsewhere. Newcastle have a record of signing young borderers, or there's London Scottish

That would be a brilliant idea. There are a lot of young talented players coming through the Club game just now that are going to struggle to get to the next step up as there are not enough spaces at the pro teams. This is definitely the highest number of quality young guys i have seen in the club game that could easily step up to pro level but the majority won't unless they head to england or overseas.

Lee Millar is the main example of this. He has been playing brilliantly the past 2 seasons and has the right attitude from what i have seen and also experienced playing against him. By far one of the best 10s i have seen for a long time and could easily slot into 10 for either edinburgh or glasgow. It's ridiculous he can't get a contract yet was keeping Gregor Hunter out the gala team last season and now Edinburgh have brought in piers francis!!

There are a number of other guys at various clubs who are worthy of contracts, just a small of amount of them are. At ayr you have robbie fergusson, peter jerecevich, Kerr Gossman.
Aberdeen you have Murray Douglass, Morgan Ward, James Knight Steve Aitken.
Boroughmuir Sean Crombie,Jamie Swanson,Damian Hoyland, Andy Rose.
Currie, Alastair Hamilton, Ross Weston, Jamie Forbes, Liam Draycott
Dundee High, Jack Steele,Andy Redmayne,
Edinburgh Accies, Callum Reid there are a few others but can't remember their names.
Gala, Lee Millar, Chris Auld, Gary Graham, George Graham,
Melrose ?
Heriots - Struan Cessford, Fraser Brown,
Stirling County, James Bhatti, Sean Kennedy, Rory Hughes.