Boxing Promoters

I was just thinking about boxing promoters and who you think has been, and currently is the best promoter?
Some have been among the biggest personalities and most influential people in boxing.
There are some famous names out there, but are there any others that have found a gem of a boxer and taken him to the heights of stardom from scratch?

Y I Man wrote:I was just thinking about boxing promoters and who you think has been, and currently is the best promoter?
Some have been among the biggest personalities and most influential people in boxing.
There are some famous names out there, but are there any others that have found a gem of a boxer and taken him to the heights of stardom from scratch?

Arum, he know how to put on a show and has been putting on great show for over 30 years. Some of the great fights have been put on by Top Rank and has had many of the top named fighters fight under his banner.

What an excellent idea for a thread.

Tex Rickard would get my vote, without a shadow of a doubt.

One time cowboy, gold prospector, saloon keeper and Heaven - knows - what else, Rickard would not only promote the greatest boxing shows of the early twentieth century, but he would also be hugely instrumental in the building of Madison Square Gardens and the publication of Nat Fleischer's ' Ring ' magazine.

In September of 1906, he promoted the lightweight title fight between Joe Gans and Oscar “Battling” Nelson, which was one of the greatest title fights in history, as a promotional stunt for Goldfield and its mines. He also promoted a featherweight match in Goldfield featuring the great Abe Attell, and in 1910 he put on the “Fight of the Century” between Jack Johnson and Jim Jeffries in Reno, building a stadium specially for the event. Several of Jess Willard's bouts were promoted by Rickard, and eventually he became Dempsey's promoter, putting on, among others, the Dempsey v Carpentier title fight which would be the first ' million dollar gate.'

Rickard wasn't merely a promoter, but rather he was an entrepreneur and pioneer, also, creating shows from scratch and bringing boxing to a wider audience. All this, without Internet, TV or other benefits which modern promoters enjoy.

One of the most influential men in the entire history of boxing, in my opinion.

Don King by a country mile. His cards were always stacked with world belts a plenty and great match-ups. He could sell ice to eskimos also. You simply bought a ticket to shut him up.

Arum has put on close to 4000 boxing show over the last 30 years, so you can see the contribution he has made to the sport.

Already in this year he has put on some great show.

The Donaire vs Montiel card, Cotto vs Mayorga card, Gamboa vs Solis card and we have the biggest fight of the year coming in a couple of weeks with Pacquiao vs Mosley.

I think Arum is in his 80s but still the hardest working promoter in boxing today.

Special mention has to go out to Golden Boy for getting boxers into promoting. Oscar has done a good thing with that.

D4thincarnation wrote:and we have the biggest fight of the year coming in a couple of weeks with Pacquiao vs Mosley.

Don't start that one again. You KNOW that most don't regard it as being a big fight, regardless of the ppv hits it generates.

Stop ' cattle prodding, ' and for the love of God, let's have a thread without your Manny nonsense.

Think your overplaying Arums significance to the sport nowadays D4, very rarely does he set up fights between the best any more, keeping things very much in house. Compare this to Don King who love him or loathe him used to produce stacked card after stacked card.

The best card of the year so far had to Maidana/Morales with a top class undercard

Thats a good point Atom. Its not just about the main event, but the whole show. The undercard is also very important in making you a successful promoter.

D4thincarnation wrote:Arum has put on close to 4000 boxing show over the last 30 years, so you can see the contribution he has made to the sport.

Already in this year he has put on some great show.

The Donaire vs Montiel card, Cotto vs Mayorga card, Gamboa vs Solis card and we have the biggest fight of the year coming in a couple of weeks with Pacquiao vs Mosley.

I think Arum is in his 80s but still the hardest working promoter in boxing today.

Arum always played second fiddle to King in their respective pomp. The reason for that is because King delivered to the fans (not always to the boxers though).

The Mighty Atom wrote:Think your overplaying Arums significance to the sport nowadays D4, very rarely does he set up fights between the best any more, keeping things very much in house. Compare this to Don King who love him or loathe him used to produce stacked card after stacked card.

The best card of the year so far had to Maidana/Morales with a top class undercard

Top rank will probably generate the most money in boxing again and will also put on the most boxing shows.

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Think your overplaying Arums significance to the sport nowadays D4, very rarely does he set up fights between the best any more, keeping things very much in house. Compare this to Don King who love him or loathe him used to produce stacked card after stacked card.

The best card of the year so far had to Maidana/Morales with a top class undercard

Top rank will probably generate the most money in boxing again and will also put on the most boxing shows.

Rickard did it without the benefit of modern communications.

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Think your overplaying Arums significance to the sport nowadays D4, very rarely does he set up fights between the best any more, keeping things very much in house. Compare this to Don King who love him or loathe him used to produce stacked card after stacked card.

The best card of the year so far had to Maidana/Morales with a top class undercard

Top rank will probably generate the most money in boxing again and will also put on the most boxing shows.

Rickard did it without the benefit of modern communications.

Ha. Imagine if he had a phone. Actually imagine a conversation between him and King. Just think of them selling a fight. My god.

Putting on a big show today takes much more organising and boxing is competing with much more thing. A lot harder thing to do in this day in age.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Think your overplaying Arums significance to the sport nowadays D4, very rarely does he set up fights between the best any more, keeping things very much in house. Compare this to Don King who love him or loathe him used to produce stacked card after stacked card.

The best card of the year so far had to Maidana/Morales with a top class undercard

Top rank will probably generate the most money in boxing again and will also put on the most boxing shows.

Rickard did it without the benefit of modern communications.

Ha. Imagine if he had a phone. Actually imagine a conversation between him and King. Just think of them selling a fight. My god.

You know, az, I believe Rickard is one of the few who could have matched King for charisma. He had a hugely colourful background, and had a finger in many different pies.

You have to be kidding me, harder to promote a fight in the day and age of the internet and tv? Stop talking nonsense to big up your favourites.

Arum might generate the most money but he very rarely pits the best against eachother

D4thincarnation wrote:Putting on a big show today takes much more organising and boxing is competing with much more thing. A lot harder thing to do in this day in age.

Nonsense.

The shows are paid for by TV companies, today. Rickard had to attract live audiences and build stadia for them.

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Putting on a big show today takes much more organising and boxing is competing with much more thing. A lot harder thing to do in this day in age.

Nonsense.

The shows are paid for by TV companies, today. Rickard had to attract live audiences and build stadia for them.

Yes you still have negotiate with the TV companies then right in different companies, promotional tour, presser, interviews on tv, advertisements.

It is a lot more complicated in todays world.

Really stop with your nonsense, anyone will agree it's harder to promote a fight in an age of lesser transportation, communications and money

Don't even bother arguing this

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Putting on a big show today takes much more organising and boxing is competing with much more thing. A lot harder thing to do in this day in age.

Nonsense.

The shows are paid for by TV companies, today. Rickard had to attract live audiences and build stadia for them.

Yes you still have negotiate with the TV companies then right in different companies, promotional tour, presser, interviews on tv, advertisements.

It is a lot more complicated in todays world.

No, it isn't.

Arum doesn't need to build stadia. He doesn't need to entice thousands of people to remote towns such as Reno at very short notice because a town in California suddenly pulls the plug over protests lodged with the state Governor. He doesn't need to negotiate film rights, and he DOES have the benefits of modern communications and technology to help him.

Hi-jacked!

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Putting on a big show today takes much more organising and boxing is competing with much more thing. A lot harder thing to do in this day in age.

Nonsense.

The shows are paid for by TV companies, today. Rickard had to attract live audiences and build stadia for them.

Yes you still have negotiate with the TV companies then right in different companies, promotional tour, presser, interviews on tv, advertisements.

It is a lot more complicated in todays world.

No, it isn't.

Arum doesn't need to build stadia. He doesn't need to entice thousands of people to remote towns such as Reno at very short notice because a town in California suddenly pulls the plug over protests lodged with the state Governor. He doesn't need to negotiate film rights, and he DOES have the benefits of modern communications and technology to help him.

No he needs to sell the fights to millions rather than thousands in a age where boxing does not get much coverage and the entertainment market is saturated.

You don't even have a point so not sure why your persisting

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Putting on a big show today takes much more organising and boxing is competing with much more thing. A lot harder thing to do in this day in age.

Nonsense.

The shows are paid for by TV companies, today. Rickard had to attract live audiences and build stadia for them.

Yes you still have negotiate with the TV companies then right in different companies, promotional tour, presser, interviews on tv, advertisements.

It is a lot more complicated in todays world.

No, it isn't.

Arum doesn't need to build stadia. He doesn't need to entice thousands of people to remote towns such as Reno at very short notice because a town in California suddenly pulls the plug over protests lodged with the state Governor. He doesn't need to negotiate film rights, and he DOES have the benefits of modern communications and technology to help him.

No he needs to sell the fights to millions rather than thousands in a age where boxing does not get much coverage and the entertainment market is saturated.

It is Rickard who is widely regarded as being responsible for putting boxing on the map in the first place. First African American v Caucasian for the heavyweight title ; first million dollar gate with Dempsey v Carpentier, etc., etc.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Think your overplaying Arums significance to the sport nowadays D4, very rarely does he set up fights between the best any more, keeping things very much in house. Compare this to Don King who love him or loathe him used to produce stacked card after stacked card.

The best card of the year so far had to Maidana/Morales with a top class undercard

Top rank will probably generate the most money in boxing again and will also put on the most boxing shows.

Rickard did it without the benefit of modern communications.

Ha. Imagine if he had a phone. Actually imagine a conversation between him and King. Just think of them selling a fight. My god.

You know, az, I believe Rickard is one of the few who could have matched King for charisma. He had a hugely colourful background, and had a finger in many different pies.

I've read about him He was some guy and not afraid to break barriers either.

The Mighty Atom wrote:You have to be kidding me, harder to promote a fight in the day and age of the internet and tv? Stop talking nonsense to big up your favourites.

Arum might generate the most money but he very rarely pits the best against eachother

Arum hasn't generated most money either. In dollar terms yes, but in relative terms (gate receipts etc) that belongs to Rickard. $10 in Rickard's time is worth $500 today.

D4 is being relative again.

“Don King is like everybody else in boxing. He’s a liar, a thief, a murderer and a racketeer. And a con man. But there ain’t anybody as bad as Bob Arum. That New York City Jew lawyer will make you hate city folks, Jews, and lawyers in the same day.”

Former heavyweight contender Randall ' Tex ' Cobb.

"The fans can go f*** themselves"

Bob Arum.

Yesterday I was lying.....today I'm telling the trust
Arum

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Putting on a big show today takes much more organising and boxing is competing with much more thing. A lot harder thing to do in this day in age.

Nonsense.

The shows are paid for by TV companies, today. Rickard had to attract live audiences and build stadia for them.

Yes you still have negotiate with the TV companies then right in different companies, promotional tour, presser, interviews on tv, advertisements.

It is a lot more complicated in todays world.

Would also add Rickard also had to do it in an environment where the sport was only legal in a few states and even when you thought you had a venue local politicians and religious groups could still pull the rug from under you. Add into that being unable to match guys of the wrong colour and to suggest in this day and age things are tougher is absolute nonsense of the highest order and like your gloves thread yesterday is just a none too subtle attempt to praise Mann, if only be association.

azania wrote:Yesterday I was lying.....today I'm telling the trust
Arum

Thats the Truth.

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:Yesterday I was lying.....today I'm telling the trust
Arum

Thats the Truth.

You wouldn't know Truth if it hit you with a nice shiny pair of Clito Ris gloves.

Would go along with the general consensus that, taking everything in to account, Rickard is the outstanding candidate to take the crown of boxing's greatest ever promoter.

As D4 seems unable to understand, in this type of debates, context needs to be considered. Dempsey brought the Heavyweight title a glamour and financial gain which it had never seen before, but he himself was the first to admit that Rickard was just as important (if not more so) in that, saying in his autobiography, "We never had a contract. You didn't need one with Tex Rickard. He was the great man of my life. They don't make them like Rickard any more."

If boxing is, as the old saying goes, 'showbiz with blood', then nobody understood the showbiz element better than Rickard did. Sports writer Paul Gallico said on the element of money "He (Rickard) knew how to exhibit it, use it, spend it." Even Dempsey's glamourous lifestyle which was so heavily reported in the press, right down to the way he dressed, was partly due to Rickard's influence. Gilbert odd wroted that "Rickard knew if his fighters looked as if they were wealthy, then they drew the attention of the wealthy."

As others have said, he was an opportunist above all, but boxing would be much poorer without him, not just in his own time either.

88Chris05 wrote:Would go along with the general consensus that, taking everything in to account, Rickard is the outstanding candidate to take the crown of boxing's greatest ever promoter.

As D4 seems unable to understand, in this type of debates, context needs to be considered. Dempsey brought the Heavyweight title a glamour and financial gain which it had never seen before, but he himself was the first to admit that Rickard was just as important (if not more so) in that, saying in his autobiography, "We never had a contract. You didn't need one with Tex Rickard. He was the great man of my life. They don't make them like Rickard any more."

If boxing is, as the old saying goes, 'showbiz with blood', then nobody understood the showbiz element better than Rickard did. Sports writer Paul Gallico said on the element of money "He (Rickard) knew how to exhibit it, use it, spend it." Even Dempsey's glamourous lifestyle which was so heavily reported in the press, right down to the way he dressed, was partly due to Rickard's influence. Gilbert odd wroted that "Rickard knew if his fighters looked as if they were wealthy, then they drew the attention of the wealthy."

As others have said, he was an opportunist above all, but boxing would be much poorer without him, not just in his own time either.

Only one problem with is that the question is not about the greatest ever promoter, it is about who is currently the best promoter and how have they shaped and developed careers of boxer, e.g. rags to riches story.

It's not specifically about current promoters or have you not reached the level of being able to read yet

I think the scam that Don king pulled in orgainising the rumble in the jungle equals anything Rickard was capable of. Also I don't think its totally out of leftfield to suggest that in Rickards day promoting the heavyweight champion might not have been that hard.

You guys are making out that the promotions he hosted were akin to trying to polish a turd. The newspapers did the promoting for him, the scandel that followed johnson, the glamour that followed Dempsey they were a promotors dream.

Haye selling audley as a competitive fight to 750,000 PPV's is a greater promotional swindle than Dempsey v Carpentier.

jimdig wrote:I think the scam that Don king pulled in orgainising the rumble in the jungle equals anything Rickard was capable of. Also I don't think its totally out of leftfield to suggest that in Rickards day promoting the heavyweight champion might not have been that hard.

You guys are making out that the promotions he hosted were akin to trying to polish a turd. The newspapers did the promoting for him, the scandel that followed johnson, the glamour that followed Dempsey they were a promotors dream.

Haye selling audley as a competitive fight to 750,000 PPV's is a greater promotional swindle than Dempsey v Carpentier.

There was no glamour which 'followed' Dempsey at all prior to Rickard. The way you worded it, anyone would think that Dempsey was some megastar who'd already been carefully managed before Rickard became involved, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Let's not forget that boxing, until the twenties, had always been in the shadow of baseball on the other side of the pond. For Rickard to transform Dempsey in to the biggest sporting icon in America (making more in one fight than Babe Ruth did in an entire years salary, reportedly), in the days before TV, in a sport which had previously not enjoyed the same exposure as the others aforementioned, is one hell of a feat.

Saying that King pulling off the 'Rumble in the Jungle' equals anything that Rickard did is a bit of a moot point, really. The 'Rumble' was King showing off his opportunistic skills, just as Rickard had done fifty-odd years earlier. They were both chancers, but highly effective ones.

Let's not forget, too, that Rickard had to fend off some serious competition to take his place at the top of the promotional pile. 'Sunny Jim' Coffroth and Eddie Graney were the King and Arum of their time and had been dominating the promotional side of the sport prior to Rickard's emergence, and the pair of them looked totally untouchable.

Crucially, with the lating legacy of Madison Square Garden and the esteem with which 'Ring' magazine is still held, it's fair to say that the influence of Rickard has lasted a lot longer than that of any of his main rivals. Horses for courses and all that, but to seem so dismissive of what Rickard achieved seems a little odd to me.

I wasn't meaning to be dismissive although, reading it back it, it would appear that way. I was trying to make the point that Rickard although a great promotor, was promoting greats.

Oscar is the best promotor by a country mile. Always puts the best fighters in with each other and rarely keeps it in house... unlike another promotor we know

Hard to choose between Bob Arum and Don King both put on brilliant shows.Oscar seems to be a decent promoter too.While other in Britain we have Warren who even though he would probably sell his mother for the right price puts on brilliant shows and has a good crop of fighters who could possibly win world titles.

Tough one to call. Best for what I suppose is what has to be considered. Don King has fallen to the wayside in recent years, no doubt helped there by his past mistreatment of fighters. Arum is intent on either letting his fighters fight stooges, or keeping fights in-house with zero interest in making the most competitive or fan-friendly bouts. Golden Boy are guilty of too much hype in some instances, but seem to have a generally better track record of keeping boxer-promoter relations sweet. Frank Warren is getting better at putting on decent shows matching up-and-comers well, but he's still too renowned for wriggling his fighters into relatively easy and safe title shots.

I'd probably have to agree with the earlier guys and go with Rickard. Not only did he do everything his modern counterparts did, but he was the progenitor for these guys. He laid out the blueprint, if you will, and for that has to be held highly.

I'm going to be controversial and disagree with you all -

Greatest promoter/managery type, beyond shadow of a doubt is...*cue drumroll*...

Mike Jacobs.

Once Rickard's right hand man, took over the sport and ran it. Owned it in fact, from 1930 onwards. Controlled the championships in every single weight class. Created the 20th century sporting club. 3x million-dollar gates. Could effectively allow or prevent a world champion from training - ie Ike Williams through the boxing managers guild. When he tried to manage himself - he couldn't even go into a gym and spar!!

Alternatively - 3 names:

Blinky Palermo, Frank Costello and the father of boxing vice - Frankie Carbo.

These guys RAN the sport. Arum, King are small fry compared with them.

Course - they were all corrupt as sin, forced boxers to throw fights and were not averse to murdering a few if you failed to comply. Carbo and Jacobs damned Burley's career.

So that's my shout. Rickard began the work and did brilliantly. King has put some good gates together but has been rubbish throughout the 90s. Arum hasn't managed to control boxing as King has declined - GBP taking over much of what King has let slip.

Carbo, Costello, Jacobs owned the entire sport. They have to be considered, surely?

Yep, just read it and saw no shout for Jacobs who ran NY (and therefore boxing) for years through his contracts with MSG. Got great press through newspaper contacts and had guys like Armstrong, Louis, etc. Not sure he was bigger than Rickard, but he certainly took over boxing after him.

The mob guys Carbo, Palermo etc were managers though, not promoters.

And my final proof that Jacobs/Carbo are the greatest:

Arum and King have been caught out - when their charges have unexpectedly lost to people they were expected to beat - eg Tyson/Douglas. Or Juanma Lopez-Salido.

Jacobs/Carbo would have never been caught out like that. They'd have KNOWN who was going to win by KO.

Hell - they'd have been able to tell you which round.

Interesting shout on Jacobs there, Oxring. I still side with Rickard, but will concede that Jacobs did great work too, particularly in the way that he quashed the idea that black fighters couldn't sell tickets, which the likes of Rickard and also Jimmy Johnston had been guilty of. As Joe Louis said about him, "Mike had no prejudice about a man's colour so long as he could make a green buck out of him."

I think the greatest tribute that can be paid to Jacobs is that he almost single-handedly guided boxing through that horrendous 'Great Depression' era. It's a shame that his ailing health took a hold by the early forties, too, as many speculate that had he still been able to work as freely as he had done in the thirties, the dreaded IBC would never have reached that level of power they had in the forties and fifties.

Yeah, if I'm honest - I'd probably want to say Rickard. The man was a pioneer. I felt that Jacobs had to be mentioned.

And although Carbo et al weren't promoters - they still chose who fought who and had someone else do the actual "selling" of the fight. And Carbo used to work hand-in-hand with Jacobs in the early 40s - so I feel that they could be included for discussion.