QB Tier List

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Elite Tier:
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady

Great Tier:
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
Phillip Rivers

Good Tier:
Ben Roethlisberger
Mike Vick
Tony Romo

Above Average Tier:
Eli Manning
Matt Ryan
Jay Cutler
Matt Schaub
Josh Freeman

Average:
Sam Bradford
Joe Flacco
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Vince Young
David Garrard
Matt Cassel
Donovan McNabb
Kyle Orton

Below Average:
Carson Palmer
Jason Campbell
Matt Hasselbeck

Alex Smith Tier:
Alex Smith

Bad Tier:
Jimmy Clausen
Derek Anderson
Chad Henne
Mark Sanchez

That has to be one of the most ridiculous thing's I've ever heard, being able to put the ring on doesn't make you a better player over night, Rodgers was just as good a quarterback before Roethlisberger was intercepted as he was after the interception. I accept until last season Rivers had one of the best running backs in the league in the running game.

Ey up Grizz, all good here mate, fresh off my bank holiday yesterday

I agree that while Rivers is certainly in the top 5 QBs in the league, he isn't elite yet because he hasn't taken his team to a SB.

Also, to answer your point Derby, Rivers didn't have that RB last season and he had almost record-breaking numbers.

I'd say both Rivers and Rodgers are elite. Teams win rings not QB's.

He did break the record for number of yards in the first 10 games. Some people argued about why Warren Moon and Bernie Kosar weren't on the list for greatest of the British TV coverage era they've one ring between them and that is Kosar's for standing on the side.

Not enough Bank Holidays - I reckon if we can get the Queen to step down after her 50th, Charlie to step aside, Will and Kate to step up, they then go on a breeding spree with 5 kids in the next 4 years, plus Harry marries Chels and they too go on a royal breeding spree, we could get around 20 extra days off over the next 5 years.

Derby - I'm with you pal, I still make Marino one of the greatest of all time but he doesn't have a ring.
What a ring does confirm is that the QB can marshall an offence in the most intense situations and perform to a high level, I agree a ring doesn't say they're a better player but doing it in front of a global audience in an alien stadium does say something....

Bank Holiday was for Liberation Day. God Bless the Channel Islands

Would people have really called Bradshaw elite, even though he won four SB titles? That team was all about the defense.

I'd argue getting to the SB rather than having to win a ring is the key. Marino played excellently in the SB, but the Miami D couldn't cope with Montana and co. and he didn't have a good enough running game to support him. Just like Kosar and the Browns, Kelly and the Bills etc. they came up against better teams, but still showed what great QB's they were.

Rivers has had his chance and hasn't performed at the best of his game in the playoffs. When (if?) he does, he'll be up there with the best.

Pr4wn - the Steelers had a top class offense too, and don't forget this was in the age of the running game where the QB was expected to manage the game more than be a passing legend. Bradshaw had some exceptional games even given that proviso.

Skins, I doubt doubt that for a moment.

But do pundits and writers really consider Bradshaw to be elite in the same way Unitas and Starr were? I don't think so.

So then Pr4wn what does it take to be elite because you said Rivers cant be because he hasn't been to the Super Bowl yet, but equally Bradshaw can't be despite winning it 4 times.

I'm not saying that either Rivers or Bradshaw can't be.

In my opinion, Rivers hasn't performed on the big stage yet. Yes, his regular season performances are on the whole superb, but until he takes his team to the big one, he can't be considered elite. That's in my opinion.

I'm also certainly not saying that Bradshaw wasn't elite. I think he was a terriffic QB and perfect for the team he was in at the time. What I'm saying is that many "experts" don't believe that he was elite, therefore rubbishing the link between rings and being elite.

But why should Rivers performance in one single game suddenly make him an elite quarterback? Now if he went and broke every good Super Bowl passing record then I'd say yes that can be used to show he's elite but if he comes out of the game with his average stats does this make him elite or not?

Rivers post season play has never been bad if my memory is correct. I remember a game against the Pats he played with a ACL injury, he's beat the Colts in O.T and one year Kaeding's missed 3 field goals against the Jets. I could be wrong but i can't think of a playoff game were you would say they lost because of him.

Think Rivers is something like 3-4 in post season.
He's about as close as anyone to making that top group and lets face it with better coaching and a non high school special teams unit they would have made play offs last year, and if 2011 ever gets going they should be serious challengers once again

Grizzly wrote:Rodgers is already elite for me....

I can't argue with that. It's unbelievable he's still young and hasn't hit his prime... Scary..

Think about a tag like 'elite' is that its always down to opinion, and in this case I can understand many opinions expressed here.

I think the knock on Rivers is that he can air it out and get big numbers, but can he manage a game where he needs to keep the offense on the field? I recall a few games where he's thrown a bomb early in a drive and put his defense back on the field after a TD/INT, when they've only just come off after a long drive. Sometimes you have to have a grind it out drive regardless of what the defense is giving you, so that a) you tire their D out and b) you give yours a rest. I've seen plenty of blow outs because a team starts chasing a lead, takes chances and their D just can't keep up.

The problem may lie more with the Chargers as a team though (or Turner as a play caller). Compare them to the Rams (greatest show on turf) or Colts/Patriots of a few years ago. Those teams knew they would likely have at least 3-5 TD's in the game so they just went for the jugular offensively and it usually worked. The Chargers haven't had that ability, at least not since LT was in his prime, to score indiscriminately. Likewise they seem to often have problems against the better defenses. Again, maybe this comes down tot he play calling?

Watching a Video on NFL.com their in studio people calling Rivers an elite quarterback, though one said he just needs to get that ring. If they sort out special teams and either re-sign their MLB's or find new ones they win the division (no offence Grizzly.)

Virgil_Caine wrote:Rivers post season play has never been bad if my memory is correct. I remember a game against the Pats he played with a ACL injury, he's beat the Colts in O.T and one year Kaeding's missed 3 field goals against the Jets. I could be wrong but i can't think of a playoff game were you would say they lost because of him.

I don't think he's been that bad in the postseason. He's just been unfortunate to meet the Pats every time.

Derby - none taken, we know what we got and we know what they got !
Seriously, with the talent they had on both sides of the ball it was criminal they didn't make play offs.
The div is getting much much stronger though, we're a proper team now, the Raiders are becoming a serious team and the Broncos won't be that bad again, so long gone are the days when you chalk up the Chargers as a 14-2 div winner, 10 wins might be enough next season.

I'm amazed they didn't make it to the play offs with these stats:
Offense:
Average Points - 27.6 (2nd)
Total Yards - 395.6 (1st)
Passing Yards - 282.4 (2nd)
Rushing Yards - 113.1 (15th)
Defence:
Average Points Allowed - 20.1 (10th)
Total Yards Allowed - 271.6 (1st)
Passing Yards Allowed- 177.8 (1st)
Rushing Yards Allowed - 93.8 (4th)
(league rank)

Special teams were horrible, must of cost them 3/4 games easily.

Derby, 2 points from those stats, and 1 from a stat not listed:

1) 15th in rushing is very average. As I alluded to above, you need to be able to control some games and to do that you need a running game.
2) 10th in points allowed isn't all that good, especially given the other defensive stats. However, that leads on to:
3) Turnovers. If you turn the ball over repeatedly and especially giving up TD's it doesn't matter what your offense does in terms of yardage gained or the D in terms of stopping other teams, you will suffer.

Its looking more like Rivers is a great QB on an average team!

Skins
1) I know its almost exactly the median, but still averaging over 100 yards per game isn't a poor performance it's just not as good as they have been in recent years but if Matthews is as good as he is meant to be they should improve on that this year.
2) The defensive ones are in reverse so 10th means 10th lowest, and also allowing on average over a touchdown a game less than you score is surely fairly good?
3) Rivers was intercepted 13 times, they converted 92 of 205 3rd downs, 5 of 13 4th downs, 4 punts were blocked, 1 kick off returned for TD, 3 punts returned for TD's, opponents forced 17 fumbles.

Also to do with you're previous point of wearing down opponents the Chargers on average spent 33 minutes 2 seconds in possession, and their opponents averages 26 minutes 57 seconds in possession.

Derby, 10th best out of 32 teams is above average, but relative. What I meant was, given the defensive numbers (1st, 1st, 4th) I'd expect a better scoring position, but again that leads on to turnovers. You can march down the field on every possession, but if you turn it over on the 1 yd line on every drive you score nothing but have great yardage. Likewise, if you turn the ball over in your own half, your defense won't give up much yardage for each TD, so scoring D looks bad compared to yardage. As you indicate, and as especially highlighted by the Raiders game, turnovers and particularly scores off turnovers can really skew good statistical performance.

Ok skins sorry I misinterpretated that then, but yes when you look at their other defensive stats it does seem poor and would suggest they either turn it over to often or in bad positions so whilst the opponents may not get many yards they don't need many to get the TD.

A few other stats the Chargers gave away 9 touchbacks, when their opponents only gave away 3, their opponents also averaged 8.4 yards more per punt return attempt.

To be fair, you can analyse a million stats on 2010 and you still won't be able to work out how the Bolts failed to make post season....

I think you just need to watch the Raiders game to see why!

It is starting to get that way Grizzly, but 2-5 from the first 7 games with loses to the Rams and Seahawks it's always going to make it tough to make the post season, although they seem to like starting slow this years must have been just a little bit too slow.