NH..... What can we do?

IMO the Home Nations,France and Italy need to get together and come up with a plan to beat the SH.

We should create a new competition to replace the HC based on the Super 15 format, plus we should limit the number of foreigners that squads can have.

Thoughts please.

1. Pray
2. Ask Chuck Norris for help
3. Poison NZ like SA did in 1995
4. We all purchase a plot of land in the Kalahari desert and move our respective nations South.

no tbh hersh has a point,

going to a harmonised nh season may help, or even a global season?

France would say they're doing not too bad as is

I'VE GOT IT!!!

We inject all pregnant women in New Zealand with Rhys Priestland DNA for the next 50 years.

Rugby will collapse and they will focus on golf.

It is simple...

Employ me and I will put in place an infrastructure of which the world has never seen, it will be far more efficient than any junior system in place currently and would create talent that made todays hero's look like foot handed haks!!!

Unfortunately no governing body will even consider a restructure, although the RFU are investing hugely in theirs but I fear it will be a case of poor good money after bad.

Then we cut France out and they can play their Top 14 on their own.

RogerLewis wrote:I'VE GOT IT!!!

We inject all pregnant women in New Zealand with Rhys Priestland DNA for the next 50 years.

Rugby will collapse and they will focus on golf.

I think that was the plan Tindall seemed to be using last year

Keep Praying.

A couple of very close ones. Italy unlucky... so too England by a November whisker. Poor Scotland; just watching it now and Ireland seem to have played very well against Argentina.

Despite the unflattering scoreline, Wales hung in there at least. It was 10-10 2nd half (not bad at all!) and when they had the ball and started to move it wide there were glimpses of their potential.

Just a pity they couldn't exploit the extra man a little bit more but the ABs were up in their faces in smothering defence as usual. They had to work very hard being a man down. Wales need to chance their arm more. Risky I know but they could give the Wallabies some serious problems if they keep the ball in hand more and show more self belief... and Australia play like they did today against Italy again.

disneychilly wrote:

RogerLewis wrote:I'VE GOT IT!!!

We inject all pregnant women in New Zealand with Rhys Priestland DNA for the next 50 years.

Rugby will collapse and they will focus on golf.

I think that was the plan Tindall seemed to be using last year

How did Mike Tindall get hold of Rhys Priestland's DNA?

Well, the first thing is to stop thinking that the 6N is any sort of proof of world wide ability. I've said it plenty of times before: just because a team wins a 6N, why do people then assume that the team should then start beating the top 3? The 6N is just a 4-10 comp. And a poor one at that. It's obvious now that Wales were made to look good in the 6N rather than being good.

The first step is to realise that we're a long way behind.

thomh wrote:

disneychilly wrote:

RogerLewis wrote:I'VE GOT IT!!!

We inject all pregnant women in New Zealand with Rhys Priestland DNA for the next 50 years.

Rugby will collapse and they will focus on golf.

I think that was the plan Tindall seemed to be using last year

How did Mike Tindall get hold of Rhys Priestland's DNA?

He couldn't find any so resorted to tossing dwarves

Griff

We are not far away at all, we are just focussing on the wrong ideas to try to catch up!!

We're miles away. Our top, top professionals are unable to perform skills at pace. We can't catch the ball and think about the next move at the same time. We can't get the ball away at the same rate from rucks. we can't compete at rucks with the same ferocity. The all blacks can. That is not a quick fix. That is a number of seasons of catch up by which time the ABs will have new, improved tactics.

Our Forwards are too fat and slow, we over commit at rucks and our basic skills are laughable.

England: bring back Jonny,
might have won us the last 2 games.

Griff

Your smack on, basic skills are not instinctive in the NH, but thats not where the governing bodies are looking to progress, they want quick fixes of bigger stronger.

My junior system could solve all our problems, it would create instinctive proffesional players, classy and on a much larger scale!!

HERSH wrote:Our Forwards are too fat and slow, we over commit at rucks and our basic skills are laughable.

For once I agree. Although I'd say that in Wales our forwards (Melon and Adam aside) are not fat as such, just not as big and powerful as they need to be! Still slow though, so agree there.

HERSH wrote:...our basic skills are laughable.

Agree with that

thebluesmancometh wrote:Griff

Your smack on, basic skills are not instinctive in the NH, but thats not where the governing bodies are looking to progress, they want quick fixes of bigger stronger.

My junior system could solve all our problems, it would create instinctive proffesional players, classy and on a much larger scale!!

The interesting thing, as pointed out by a kiwi poster, is that the ABs are not that big relatively speaking. SA, Arg etc. are probably bigger as squads. Big doesn't always work!

gregortree wrote:England: bring back Jonny,
might have won us the last 2 games.

Dare I say it Farrell or Burns could have won us the games.

Flood isn't good enough as 1st choice No10 at this level.

HERSH wrote:

gregortree wrote:England: bring back Jonny,
might have won us the last 2 games.

Dare I say it Farrell or Burns could have won us the games.

Flood isn't good enough as 1st choice No10 at this level.

England have a habit of not selecting their best players. Stefon Armitage would have been far more useful than Robshaw today.

Cipriani is still your most talented 10.

disneychilly wrote:

RogerLewis wrote:I'VE GOT IT!!!

We inject all pregnant women in New Zealand with Rhys Priestland DNA for the next 50 years.

Rugby will collapse and they will focus on golf.

I think that was the plan Tindall seemed to be using last year

That made me think why would Tindall have Priestland's DNA ?

Size has very little effect on power output, except in the case that the larger the player the more work he has to do biomechanically speaking.

Theres also still a lot of issues surrounding junior players that don't get adressed up north, the kiwi weight class system actually adresses issues such as agression and bravery by accident.

Roger
now I know you are a WUM.
Just got back from Kingsholm where I saw Tranni Danni vs Burns.
No contest, Burns scorched him.

I'm not sure, but apparently you need more than a 15 man lineout and a direct line to the IRB judiciary.

Gatland is not the messiah, he's just a very silly boy who can't keep his mouth shut.

The Universal season is a must,BUT Basic Skills should be a given at Test Level for ANY side.

Not sure that all the NH teams have fared that badly.

France won three from three
Ireland won two, lost one and it was close.
England won one, lost two, the last a close run thing
Scotland won one, lost two.
Italy won one, lost two, with a close loss to Aus.
Romania and Georgia did okay too. And USA and Russia.

HERSH wrote:Then we cut France out and they can play their Top 14 on their own.

UK and Ireland super league anyone?

Restructure the season so that you have rabbo/aviva played in block. With the top teams from each league going through to progress to the next competition.

GavinDragon wrote:

HERSH wrote:Then we cut France out and they can play their Top 14 on their own.

UK and Ireland super league anyone?

Restructure the season so that you have rabbo/aviva played in block. With the top teams from each league going through to progress to the next competition.

I suggested that a couple of months ago on one of those HEC threads - persuade the French to let the Italians join Top 14, so you have a Continental Top 16/18*, a Home Nations Top 22/24* (you'd have to go to only playing each other side once a season, alternating the home/away), with the best teams from both going into an elite cup comp. Sadly there's too many vested interests for it to happen.


*allowing for some expansion

England is the only country now that doesn't limit the number of foreign players in each club.

The super rugby model is definitely a better option than the mish mashed weirdness that we have in Europe now.

A while ago in Equipe I read an interview with the then head of the FFR who was very keen on setting up provincial sides in France. It would be a perfect country to do this in as they have such strong local identities already.

What's to stop a union, such as the RFU decided tomorrow to set up a regional side in the north of England and call it Northumbria and enter it in English and European club competitions? If England is the richest union then surely it could afford to do this. There could be a hybrid league in England, clubs and provincial/ regional sides that could help develop English rugby, particularly in areas where clubs have gone bankrupt and there are no pro sides.

All the club comp variations in the world won't help the basic skills needed to compete with the SH (NZ)

Academies and junior systems are where the problems are, numerous profesionals including the guy who heads the world in junior sport development have eluded to the same thing over and over!!!

Really, all this talk of doing that kinda league or having more of those kind of derbies or breaking up HEC that a way, or using more home grown players this a way. It's all just too - well, I'm going to start calling it Woodward. Too Woodward - too corporate boardroomy nonsense for me to stomach.

This happens every year. We play our own stuff here in our respective leagues, we have good old banter fights amongst each other about which is best league, best players, best sides etc....the SH Internationals then either come up here or we go down there and all of a sudden - the gloom sets in. We ain't as good as maybe we woz hoping we woz! *sniffle*

Why? - Because most of the year we prefer doing the old insular 'derby' club game navel gazing. We don't give a crud about what the SH club sides play like or look like, we have more expensive leagues, with big buck players so sod 'em!

My idea would be to forget the rich and complex ideas on sharing leagues and structures and gametime with each other and moreso that coaches from all levels in Europe would actually do something simple for a change - teach the most effective rugby in the world to their kids/adults (both in technique and in fitness preparation) and find out about the most effective rugby by analysing it in the first place.

No excuses - this is a mobile age, a jet age and technological communication age...any info you want is gettable.

It isn't rocket science - the SHers aren't supermen. They have a knowledge of the game that surpasses what we rely on up here and we, being our brash European selves, think we can do it better our way...some day.... some day....some day.

Here's another suggestion as a kind of shorthand. Look a little closer to home then and include the 'Fantastic' French (coaches/players) more in the make up of pan European (6 Nations grade anyway) rugby. We go down south for our coaches and increasingly for our players and yet most people still say that the French have more natural awareness for the splendid potential of rugby than perhaps any other race bar the New Zealanders. Yet the home nations have few of them on their sides, and few of them as coaches (main or sub) Language difficulties? - Excuses.

SecretFly wrote:Why? - Because most of the year we prefer doing the old insular 'derby' club game navel gazing. We don't give a crud about what the SH club sides play like or look like, we have more expensive leagues, with big buck players so sod 'em!

But that's not true Secret. Again and again we are told that Super rugby is not proper rugby. That we don't like forward play and just like to throw the ball about willy nilly.

nganboy wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Why? - Because most of the year we prefer doing the old insular 'derby' club game navel gazing. We don't give a crud about what the SH club sides play like or look like, we have more expensive leagues, with big buck players so sod 'em!

But that's not true Secret. Again and again we are told that Super rugby is not proper rugby. That we don't like forward play and just like to throw the ball about willy nilly.

No you're not. This point of view is exaggerated again and again by some Super Rugby fans. Told by who exactly? If it's fawning adoration you want, just go read the media the day after the SR match in Twickenham.

Warning: Readers must bring their own sick bag.

nganboy wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Why? - Because most of the year we prefer doing the old insular 'derby' club game navel gazing. We don't give a crud about what the SH club sides play like or look like, we have more expensive leagues, with big buck players so sod 'em!

But that's not true Secret. Again and again we are told that Super rugby is not proper rugby. That we don't like forward play and just like to throw the ball about willy nilly.

You prove my point. My point is that when we play our versions of club rugby and are into the navel gazing period (domestic competitions) the SH isn't appreciated. We assume we can do things our way and the fans are enjoying it on that level.

I said all that nganboy. My point is that when International comes around - our belief in our insular NH methods (if you want to call them that - it's a generality of course as not all NH clubs follow the NH way) is proved to be a wrong again, again and again.

RogerLewis wrote:I'VE GOT IT!!!

We inject all pregnant women in New Zealand with Rhys Priestland DNA for the next 50 years.

Rugby will collapse and they will focus on golf.

Don't need to go to that extreme - just Viagra him up & set him loose in any London Walkabout armed with a tray of snakebites. Don't think it'll take too long.