Andrew Hore attack on Bradley Davies

First topic message reminder :

It was off the ball, from behind and completely unprovoked.

How long should Andrew Hore be getting for this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgqpVdu3KK0
&
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN8o_t0Vylo

(Ignore the fact that it says Aaron Jarvis in the second link)

In the end its a team game

To win a rugby match you need your front five to be solid and win ball, you need a backrow who can retain possession, tackle hard and steal ball and a backline that has a mixture of brains and brawn to unlock the best of defences.

Its all good and well AUS having a great 6-15 but workable front 5.... that is why they have not seriously challenged for the RWC in 10 years.. and it will go on until they find one. NZ only got the gold when they added some NH forwards steel to their game via Henry... and then they need 2 bites at the cherry.

I think a dominant prop in the scrum is going to win me more matches than one who is a dazzler in the loose. Thats why hayman and Sheridan have the biggest salaries... becuase they give you points every game.

Anyhow, personally I see very little difference between the SH and NH, NZ aside. ENG and FRA are more than capable than mixing it up with SA and AUS and are only a few tweaks from beating them regularly. Half of the issue is regular top class.. these guys play SR every week, not just once a month.. and they don't waste themselves playing lower level rugby. Half the test side will barely play 25 games a season (tests included)... in Europe its more like 35... the miles all add up.

Mental belief is a big thing.... the boks go into every match knowing they will win the game. They're the boks, they don't do losing.

Taylorman wrote:True but why cant they do both. Just seems like theres a prescribed, narrow roll for the players up there and running the ball is off the cards unless its a one up..
Theres no instinct to run a ball, to do something out of the ordinary. Theres just this rigid gameplan when all it needs sometimes is for the nearest person to just have a go.

Whens the last time a prop lock or hooker chipped through for anyone. Census did it on the weekend, Dane Coles has done it a couple of times that I've seen.

Theres this never ending analysis about controlling the breakdowns, set pieces and nothing about what individuals can do to get that one or two breaks needed to break the game open.

Without the license to have a go you kill any instinctive notions- opportune moments that come and are left to pass to 'follow the plan'

I suggest you try and find some highlights of Ireland Argentina worth a watch. However you do have a point Rgby coaching in the northern hemisphere is very conservative and is about the prevention of mistakes. The big differnce to me is that NZ basic skills are higher even the forwards are good footballer can pass of both hands do the baisic's there is also a greater perception of space and greater game intelligence for want of a better word. They invaribly take the right option as to when to offload take contact. The most impressive think for me of the autumn was the passing of the NZ forwards in/just before contact against Scotland.

Pretty much we need more Cian Healys up here.
England have very much focussed on trying to get a more mobile front row without scarificing the power. Cole, Corbs, Hartely, Youngs and to some extent Vunipola (although hes flabbier than Waldrom and has the tryline handling of Ben Kay) are very much modern front rowers. The impact of guys like Brits in the Jeff will accelerate this shift, teams want front rowers who can do more than just impersonate Chris Budgen.

Ball handling skills though just arent the same in Europe top to bottom, ist not just front rowers. That goes right down to the way kids are introduced to the game and the culture at the lowest levels.

fa0019 wrote:In the end its a team game

To win a rugby match you need your front five to be solid and win ball, you need a backrow who can retain possession, tackle hard and steal ball and a backline that has a mixture of brains and brawn to unlock the best of defences.

Its all good and well AUS having a great 6-15 but workable front 5.... that is why they have not seriously challenged for the RWC in 10 years.. and it will go on until they find one. NZ only got the gold when they added some NH forwards steel to their game via Henry... and then they need 2 bites at the cherry.

I think a dominant prop in the scrum is going to win me more matches than one who is a dazzler in the loose. Thats why hayman and Sheridan have the biggest salaries... becuase they give you points every game.

Anyhow, personally I see very little difference between the SH and NH, NZ aside. ENG and FRA are more than capable than mixing it up with SA and AUS and are only a few tweaks from beating them regularly. Half of the issue is regular top class.. these guys play SR every week, not just once a month.. and they don't waste themselves playing lower level rugby. Half the test side will barely play 25 games a season (tests included)... in Europe its more like 35... the miles all add up.

Mental belief is a big thing.... the boks go into every match knowing they will win the game. They're the boks, they don't do losing.

Well Oz made semis last year and won the 3N, were last 8 in 07 and final in 03. SA werent a lot better over the same period, not making two semis.

Agree re the NH and SH bar NZ but even then the NH didnt win a single test against either in over 10 attempts so 'little difference' is hardly fair. Especially when both sides are seriously depleted.

The Boks dont do losing is also a myth. It no longer applies. Theyve lost too many for that statement to hold true, regardless of the reason.

But hey, while everyone is in denial, the ABs will be happy to chalk up the wins.

Sorry, keep forgetting the Scotland win.

If right was right, he should be banned for 1 year at least...........

The most obvious thing for me is how patient the ABs are compared to the NH teams.

They never run slow ball or take unnecessary risks. They don't commit to the breakdown unless the ball is winnable. Their placement and body positions are exemplary when setting up their own ball.....

Then when the opposition make a mistake... BOOM.... they just hit you on the counter.

Watch the first AB try against Wales, yes the breakaway was magic, but the way they just walk in the try...just give and take .... schoolboy stuff.

Then contrast Chris Ashton's looped pass to Brown when England made the break or Keith Earls butchering a 3 on 1 against SA by throwing a miss pass to no one (did it twice against Argentina too)...

The other thing that stood out for me was that although the Boks are huge blokes, NZ are pretty small, especially their backline.... Smith, Dagg, Jane... average sized guys.

The big differences are skill levels, game management, technique and the fact that they do the basics far better than us. There's no quick fix for that. It's a grassroots issue imo.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Ball handling skills though just arent the same in Europe top to bottom, ist not just front rowers. That goes right down to the way kids are introduced to the game and the culture at the lowest levels.

I've thought this was the problem all along over the last 3 decades, the fundamental difference between the two.

Manu Tuilagi is one that stands out as a natural talent but between them Nonu and Conrad Smith will eat him this weekend.

Theyll suffocate and isolate him into frustration as hes typical of the 12s and 13s we have here. Big, fast etc. But hes out of place with this English side- no one within cooey of him having anywhere near his natural skills to either support him or stay with him.

He relies on instinct which most Samoan backs do but this match he'll be identified as a potential linebreaker and shut down.

I'm not sure the kiwis are that small, forwards and the centres are up there in size, and the wingers ar enot quit Drew Mitchels. For small I think you need to look at the wobb, oops I meant the wallabies, specially with the 1st choice backline, now that is a small side.

Dagg I think is prob the best attacking fb in the game at the mo, and quite a creative midfield makes the kiwi backs quite a good attacking force.

Taylorman wrote:
Sorry, keep forgetting the Scotland win.

Scotland?? Who did they beat?!

rodders.......

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:...............teams want front rowers who can do more than just impersonate Chris Budgen.

Whoa, Dude! Don't mess with the Budge. We loves the Budge.

5 foot, 2 inches, 20 stone, 66 years old.

oz... the only home union win over a RC side this year...until Ireland Argie of course..and great win that was too by the way.... any more Ive forgotten rodders...

OzT wrote:I'm not sure the kiwis are that small, forwards and the centres are up there in size, and the wingers ar enot quit Drew Mitchels. For small I think you need to look at the wobb, oops I meant the wallabies, specially with the 1st choice backline, now that is a small side.

Dagg I think is prob the best attacking fb in the game at the mo, and quite a creative midfield makes the kiwi backs quite a good attacking force.

No but they aren't big either...the point is that there is a bit of an obsession with size and power up here and sometimes we miss the wood for the trees. A good big un will usually beat a good little un.. but maybe quite a few of our big uns aren't as good as we like to think...

Taylorman wrote:oz... the only home union win over a RC side this year...until Ireland Argie of course..and great win that was too by the way.... any more Ive forgotten rodders...

Oh that one..yeah thats about it...thought we were just talking about the AI's...sorry Scottish friends!

I think you're right rodders, certainly the hone nations players does seem to have bulked up a lot more... though I noticed Scotland has toned down from the hulks of a few years ago. Whereas the boks are just naturally big blokes, it does seem the northerners work out in gyms quite a bit.

And for sure a good big un usually beats a good little un, but the big un's got to be good..

And Taylorman, think you should add ... so far, we're playing this weekend and one never knows!!

But you are certainly right in regards to building skills at the grass roots levels. Since I have been coaching at youth levels as my son's have grown, I see many other coaches get very position-specific with kids 9, 10, 11 years old. Position-specific to the exclusion of all-round skills.

A good example is my 14 year old son. At 11, he was short, squat, strong, and ran like a duck. Perfect hooker material. Now at 14, his body has changed and the duck is now rather lanky and fast as lightning. If we only trainned him as a hooker, he would be out of place. Still strong, but with a good pass (though still needs work), he has flanker or centre written all over him. It amazed me how many examples like him I have run into, and how the critical the youth coaching is for developing players.

doctor_grey wrote: he was short, squat, strong, and ran like a duck. Perfect hooker material.

[b]

Excellent description of the position

Well there you go if Hore didnt run like a duuck he wouldve been able to dodge round Davies rather than "trying to pull him back"

doctor_grey wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:...............teams want front rowers who can do more than just impersonate Chris Budgen.

Whoa, Dude! Don't mess with the Budge. We loves the Budge.

5 foot, 2 inches, 20 stone, 166 years old.

fixed that for you, Dr_G, but dead on, DON'T mess with the Budge (scored another try last nite in the A match - the mans a machine)

Look he might be a legend but hes pretty limited, he doesnt have the cooking game of Phil Vickery

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Look he might be a legend but hes pretty limited, he doesnt have the cooking game of Phil Vickery

True.

By the way, someone told me the other day that Phil Vickery's retired. Big shock that.

Probably best he gives up the cooking career to concentrate on his rugby, reckon he will make the Lions tour?

rodders wrote:The most obvious thing for me is how patient the ABs are compared to the NH teams.

They never run slow ball or take unnecessary risks. They don't commit to the breakdown unless the ball is winnable. Their placement and body positions are exemplary when setting up their own ball.....

Then when the opposition make a mistake... BOOM.... they just hit you on the counter.

Watch the first AB try against Wales, yes the breakaway was magic, but the way they just walk in the try...just give and take .... schoolboy stuff.

Then contrast Chris Ashton's looped pass to Brown when England made the break or Keith Earls butchering a 3 on 1 against SA by throwing a miss pass to no one (did it twice against Argentina too)...

The other thing that stood out for me was that although the Boks are huge blokes, NZ are pretty small, especially their backline.... Smith, Dagg, Jane... average sized guys.

The big differences are skill levels, game management, technique and the fact that they do the basics far better than us. There's no quick fix for that. It's a grassroots issue imo.

Nail smack bang on the head, rodders

PS. Muchos congrats btw

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Look he might be a legend but hes pretty limited, he doesnt have the cooking game of Phil Vickery

True that, Biscuit - Tui is the frontrow chef at Exe

One thing that does get me is for the first bad thing to happen to Hansen in his golden weather run is as Pot Hale has pointed out to me his brushing off of the incident. We never got 'grey' from Henry.

Regardless of his reasons for delaying or not fronting up NZ has produced a player that has put another in hospital for an action outside the realm of the sport and as a coach of this side that cant be tolerated in any shape or form.

Hansen has been weak with his handling of this and gets a mark against him in my book.

It will have the effect of motivating the players this week to play sublime rugby I'll bet but it doesnt excuse Hansen from his responsibility to front.

Yeah I agree Taylorman-doubt Hansen will allude to it before the game so he and the rest of the team/squad could have handled it better.

Saw a headline with the video showing "mitigating factors" ie Davies changing direction a couple of times to deliberately block him. What a load of crap. Did Davies smack Hore in the chops or worse? No. So it's inexcusable.

Wish Hansen handled it like Meyer did with Greyling. It annoys me as not only does it deservedly reflect badly on the team I happen to support, it also fuels the media which can actually have a detrimental effect to the team's focus on the game.

Sadly every team is guilty of thuggery. I'm proud as punch to say that at the moment my team is playing rugby on a different level that others aspire to reach, but the three incidents on this tour have left me deeply disappointed that in terms of cheap shots and off the ball thuggery we're no better than anyone else. The All Blacks don't strive to be benevolent (except in commercial opportunities of course-thanks again AIG ), they strive to win everything. But this is too far and Hansen should be ripping sh*t out of the three guilty parties.

I dont know if he so much brushed it off as didnt want to get involved in a media storm over it. Theres enough of that already. The All Blacks are keen to protect their image, and whatever he says its going to be used to paint them in a bad light ...defend him and hes scum, condemn him outright and its even their boss admits they are scum.
In that kind of a situation theres only so much you can say. Yeah this is what we are aware of, it doesnt look good ...its yup to the citing commissioner to do his job...we dont encourage that sort of thing and its not a normal part of our game , some of the media comments are a bit OTT and unfair. The other option is to harrangue the opposition coach with verbal abuse, and make false accusations of gouging to the media that you later have to retract...unlike a certain other coach.

Problem with is Andrew is he is so angry,
He has had enough with shooting baby seals so he thought he would get some practice attack Whales.

All this aggression stems from him being a Hore Hooker.

viewtothegym wrote:Problem with is Andrew is he is so angry,
He has had enough with shooting baby seals so he thought he would get some practice attack Whales.

All this aggression stems from him being a Hore Hooker.

The black joke doing the rounds in NZ is that Hore's graduated from shooting seals to clubbing Wales

I posted this article not to fan flames of events past, but to show that culpability for an action shows a healthy acknowledgment of the responsibility of those in the limelight to the public.

What is said about NZ by this journalist applies to other nations as well.


Hansen's silence says a lot about NZ rugby
by MARK REASON

OPINION: Silence. For two days the world waited for Andrew Hore, Steve Hansen, Richie McCaw, Steve Tew or even the bloke who carries the bags to apologise for the All Black hooker's unprovoked assault on Bradley Davies. Instead, New Zealand rugby appeared stuck on an endless loop of John Cage's soundless epic. At the time of writing there had not been a solitary public note of regret.

Many good men and women in this country are ashamed of this craven refusal to say sorry, but they should not be surprised. When Adam Thomson took it upon himself to stand on Alasdair Strokosch's head, All Blacks rugby reached for the euphemism.

The old melon, the bonce and the noggin had all got a bit of a scrape but there was apparently no malice in Thomson's calculated decision to stamp on another human being's skull. The real villain of the piece was a Welsh rugby writer called Stephen Jones and the real victim was New Zealand rugby, which again was the unfortunate casualty of a media beat-up.

You do wonder if New Zealand rugby will ever learn how decent society behaves. When Dean Greyling disgracefully assaulted McCaw, the Springboks leadership reacted immediately. Coach Heyneke Meyer publicly called the attack "unacceptable" and said: "I want to apologise to Richie McCaw". Captain Jean de Villiers said: "We'll never condone playing dirty" and promised to take action.

But all we have had out of Hansen so far is evasion. Initially Hansen wasn't sure if Hore "clocked him but he certainly hooked him out". A little later he said: "It looked like he was trying to clean out the Welshman in front of him It's unfortunate that it's happened." Then Hansen said: "I am just resigned to the fact that he will probably get cited ... think they think we're thugs or something but we don't play differently to anyone else."

We should be thankful that Hansen is no longer a policeman. He would have presumably let Charles Manson off with a caution. The All Blacks coach, like many of his predecessors, clearly suffers from Arsene Wenger syndrome, an unfortunate irritation of the optic nerve that causes temporary blindness when watching your own team.

The world accepts that rugby has always had its thugs. Martin Johnson and Danny Grewcock got up to some revolting things on a rugby pitch and many of the English press excoriated those men and their actions. But the world does not accept the code of silence that has pervaded the All Blacks and a supine part of their media for far too long.

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Many years ago Cyril Brownlie became the first man to be sent off in a rugby match.

The Welsh referee was considered the finest in the world and he had already issued three general warnings. He then saw Brownlie stamp on an opposition player's leg off the ball and he sent him from the pitch.

The All Blacks manager of the time said the referee had "made a mistake" and "a grave injustice has been done to Brownlie", an occurrence that "could not help the spirit of imperialism". New Zealand papers whinged about the sending-off then and they are still crying about it now. True to future form, Brownlie has somehow become the victim of his own violent action.

It is this reaction that continues to gall the rest of the world. The recent list of All Blacks shame is a long one - the Canterbury front row deliberately beating up the 71 Lions, John Ashworth tearing open JPR's face with a double stamp, Richard Loe's assault on Paul Carozza, Jamie Joseph wrecking Kyran Bracken's ankle, Keven Mealamu and Tana Umaga smashing Brian O'Driscoll's shoulder.

These acts are bad enough, and other nations have similar shameful incidents in their rugby history, but what really grates is the consistent lack of a full and proper apology. Steve Hansen talks of taking ownership, but when has New Zealand rugby ever taken ownership of these acts of violence? These players are national folk heroes just like Colin Meads, the daddy of them all.

The national exculpation of Mealamu and Umaga was a disgrace that still angers many people in Britain and other parts of the rugby world. It was an assault that came desperately close to breaking a decent man's neck.

And yet many in the New Zealand rugby community portrayed the All Blacks as the victims of an hysterical over-reaction by the British media. If there was any hysteria, it was caused by shock at New Zealand's collective failure to say sorry for what constituted common assault.

Good on the many callers in to talkback radio who have condemned Hore's attack on Davies, but the delay in a similar condemnation from either the All Blacks management or the NZRU shows how out of touch these people still are. The nation may be growing up, but New Zealand rugby is still behaving like the child who won't own up.

How glorious it would be if Tew, Hansen, McCaw and Hore faced the world's media and apologised to Bradley Davies.

How glorious it would be if Joseph was told to strip Hore of the captaincy of the Highlanders. How glorious it would be if the law in this country decided to prosecute rugby players for assault.

Is that really all so far fetched? Together we could make it happen.

Compare the NZ response to the Welsh response for one of Bradley Davies own misdemeanors.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16898415

Guess it's probably the mindset of a bunch of hard nuts.

On the flip, do ABs management and players make a big fuss when they get elbowed, gouged, raked, clotheslined, kneed, etc? Usually they don't, us fans say our piece but the team itself usually just suck it up. What goes around comes around I guess and at least the ABs are consistent.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Problem with is Andrew is he is so angry,
He has had enough with shooting baby seals so he thought he would get some practice attack Whales.

All this aggression stems from him being a Hore Hooker.

The black joke doing the rounds in NZ is that Hore's graduated from shooting seals to clubbing Wales

Just "Don't turn your back on a Kiwi" ....even if you're a Hobbit.

ebop wrote:Guess it's probably the mindset of a bunch of hard nuts.

On the flip, do ABs management and players make a big fuss when they get elbowed, gouged, raked, clotheslined, kneed, etc? Usually they don't, us fans say our piece but the team itself usually just suck it up. What goes around comes around I guess and at least the ABs are consistent.

Thats not true at all:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/newzealand/8122345/New-Zealands-Richie-McCaw-surprised-to-see-Dylan-Hartley-escape-disciplinary-action.html

Richie McCaw said "It's a little surprising. That's the biggest frustration as a player - the inconsistency," said McCaw.
"I don't like to be bitching and moaning about it - that's not the way I am - but all players would like to see a level of consistency.

"With that incident I'm surprised he wasn't up.

"I don't know whether the ref saw it or not but I certainly made it known to him that I'd been hit. I don't like people to take cheap shots - that annoys me."

All Blacks lock Brad Thorn saw Hartley career into McCaw and shoved the England hooker to the turf, sparking a melee.
"I think you saw my reaction and Brad's reaction in the field, what we thought about it. You don't like those things happening - that's not the game of rugby," McCaw added.

"You have to put your faith in the people that make those decisions. He's obviously decided it wasn't worthy."
McCaw insisted the All Blacks are not targeted by disciplinary officials when on tour in Britain and Ireland but he said:

"You've got to be extra squeaky clean.

"You just can't afford to get yourself in a position where the citing officer's going to have a look because more often than not you end up in front of the judiciary."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ygseQDp_o

Well, considering Hartley didn't even get cited for an incident that could have broken his jaw or knocked him unconscious, I think he was relatively constrained.

Rightyo, that's all I have to say about the whole ABs are thugs issue and I'm surprised it's still a topic. If you want to hold on to the 'ABs are nothing but thugs and poor sports' as your defining view of AB rugby, good for you, I'll leave you to wallow in it

ebop wrote:Well, considering Hartley didn't even get cited for an incident that could have broken his jaw or knocked him unconscious, I think he was relatively constrained.

Rightyo, that's all I have to say about the whole ABs are thugs issue and I'm surprised it's still a topic. If you want to hold on to the 'ABs are nothing but thugs and poor sports' as your defining view of AB rugby, good for you, I'll leave you to wallow in it

No, I clearly posted at the top of the thread that it is the response to actions post match that I am interested in in this thread, as the Article ABOVE.

It appears when no apology is made for an act of violence on the pitch that the act is condoned.

No Maesteg... but nor is going on an on and on and on about it. The article is obviously another atack...

"The old melon, the bonce and the noggin had all got a bit of a scrape but there was apparently no malice in Thomson's calculated decision to stamp on another human being's skull. "

stamp on another human beings skull- I mean is that honestly what it looks like. The artic;e and anyone posting it here is an obvious attempt to drag every last drop out of the matter.

In all honesty Im with ebop.

Go hunt all such articles out in the hope that Hansen finally grovels to the press for forgiveness of the ultimate sin.

Grow up and put your energy back to where its really needed... Your teams performance on the field.

This has been done to death. Nothing further here. Move along folks..

Taylorman wrote:This has been done to death. Nothing further here. Move along folks...

It seems a bit premature to draw discussion to a close when we haven't had the ruling from this recent citing.

True. Perhaps we should balance this forum up with more of the positive side of NZ rugby by rolling up post after post after post about how the side has demolished all before it up there by...yes actually playing rugby.

Im sure posters would love to read article after article of all the different angles there possibly is about how their side was thrashed again. The 'back to the drawing board', the 'in rebuild', the 'sack the coach' comments that we hear time and time again, year after year.

Us kiwis have to hold our restraint on most topics because, well, we generally dont have the depression bouts that seem to dominate these boards after both the AIs and now the Summer tours.

And now that finally theres something to hang on the ABs (because its not likely to be an actual 'win' is it) theres the need to gain some satisfaction about bringing them down some other way.

This was one mans actions, and as inexcusable as it was, so is the constant regurgitating of the event through new posts. There was nothing new in Reasons post, just another view, trawling through history for comparisons like every one else seems to be doing here.

Rugby Fan wrote:

Taylorman wrote:This has been done to death. Nothing further here. Move along folks...

It seems a bit premature to draw discussion to a close when we haven't had the ruling from this recent citing.

I think most people made their minds up on this topic before Hore even clocked him

Taylorman wrote:No Maesteg... but nor is going on an on and on and on about it. The article is obviously another atack...

"The old melon, the bonce and the noggin had all got a bit of a scrape but there was apparently no malice in Thomson's calculated decision to stamp on another human being's skull. "

stamp on another human beings skull- I mean is that honestly what it looks like. The artic;e and anyone posting it here is an obvious attempt to drag every last drop out of the matter.

In all honesty Im with ebop.

Go hunt all such articles out in the hope that Hansen finally grovels to the press for forgiveness of the ultimate sin.

Grow up and put your energy back to where its really needed... Your teams performance on the field.

This has been done to death. Nothing further here. Move along folks..

The point of the article is that acknowledging bad behaviour is a far more positive way to nullify the "shock and awe" press response...!

A statement accepting that players are fallible and occasionally stupid/errant is far better than the silence which will always appear as condoning an act.

The hearing is today, should Hore get less than a medium ban the outrage at the nonchalance shown by Hansen the NZRFU and Hore will be magnified ahead of this weeks game.

It could well bite NZ unfairly in the backside in the future, as it is generally accepted that the IRB do respond to media hype.

The interest is now with Hansens unwillingness to admit the level of wrongdoing to the press. Theres no more interest in Hore- hes a dead duck. Everyone knows that. He'll go down for a few weeks and regardless of how many it is- there'll be an uproar there as well as the death penalty isnt an option here.

But now theres a need to suck more out of Hansen. I think hes an idiot for not fronting as well and he'll realise that and front up soon enough if he has any brains, and I've never been convinced of that either.

So perhaps its better to bleed every drop out of this story, go after as many heads as it takes to 'appease' the fans. Then we can get back to the rugby perhaps.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

Taylorman wrote:This has been done to death. Nothing further here. Move along folks...

It seems a bit premature to draw discussion to a close when we haven't had the ruling from this recent citing.

I think most people made their minds up on this topic before Hore even clocked him

The most important reaction will be that of the review of this incident. Not just in reflection of the incident but as a precedent for the IRB citing commissions culpability and response.

You can believe that Maesteg. From the posts I've seen many just want a piece of Hansen. Everyone knows the IRB get this stuff wrong then it all dies down until the next one. They just dont care. It serves no purpose to them other than a right pain in the A&^% exercise, its not revenue gathering and they dont care because they're not accountable for what happened in the first instance.

You obviously have a lot more invested in them though. Theyll do their bit then move on.

I think it is unfair the press hounding the ABs over two instances, no matter the severity, the ABs are not a wilfully dirty team. These cases are exceptions. Every team has moments where players actions are disgraceful, as I posted Brad Davies own displickable act above. He was banned for the duration of the six nations for his actions.

I am highly critical of the uk press over-hyping or looking for a headline but personally I am happy when a coach or player admits the wrong doing.

maestegmafia wrote:Compare the NZ response to the Welsh response for one of Bradley Davies own misdemeanors.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16898415

"Gatland also told Davies, who was also yellow carded in Wales' 2011 Six Nations win in Scotland, that he needs to be more disciplined at Test level.

"It's not local club rugby, where you get away with those things," said Gatland. "

Yes very contrite.

The allblacks are clearly worse than some countries for cynical dirty lay and clearly worse than most for lack of contrition when players are caught.

Hanson should drop Hore.

'Clearly' worse than 'some' and 'clearly' worse than 'most' means theyre 'clearly' not worse than all at either. Well it did when I went to school.
Hansen wont need to drop Hore.