The Original - England v All Blacks - KO 14:30 Sat 1st DEC at HQ - Match Thread/Build Up etc....

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

Feel free to discuss this game and any other aspect involving the England Rugby team good or bad as your opinions count and you won't be judged (by me) if you go against England, but do try to give a reason!

Please respect other posters opinions

Game 1: Eng v Fiji 54-12 World class performance.
Game 2: Eng v Aus 14-20 We was robbed, by ourselves.
Game 3: Eng v SA 15-16 We was robbed, by our Captain this time.
Game 4: Eng v NZ ??-??

[mystiroakey]

omlette i hear ya- you lucky £$%^ btw for going to the game.

have a good one.

PS: We are gonna win

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

omlette i hear ya- you lucky £$%^ btw for going to the game.

have a good one.

PS: We are gonna win

+1 on the "have a good one"

And since it's Panto season (nearly), on the "we're going to win" one:
Oh no you're not!

[Omelette]

Comparison of the 2 backlines is just plain embarrassing (England have suffered big time with the loss of Flood and Foden). If either set of threequarters gets the ball, we’re in trouble. However the packs look close, and with the ABs facing regular squit-replacements, we might be on top here (wouldn’t want to be in the middle of the scrum tho’). So under no circumstances should the ball leave the pack and we might be competitive.

Lets not kid ourselves here, our pack is miles behind the kiwi pack. Maybe we can get parity in the set piece and the tighter phases, maybe we may even get a nudge on here and there (although i doubt it). But this is only half of what a pack has to do - at the breakdown, reading the game, support play, running lines, using overlaps. our forwards are so far behind the kiwi forwards at this it is unbelievable.

Its not a case of forwards winning the ball and the backs scoring the tries anymore. Attacking is a team game and the forwards are as important as the backs in having a good attack.

When you come up against the best, in my opinion, this is when you learn the most. lets try and learn something from this by playing the way we need to to be the best in the future, not by playing the way that will mean we lose by the least now. That way we will learn more about the team we need to be.

just because we play well in attack, doesn't mean we need to forget how to defend. so although playing with an attacking mindset may lead to a score or two coming from turnovers, surely it will not lead to conceding too many more scores as we can still defend. who knows we may score a try or two...

[Alex_Germany]

According to the Telegraph the New Zealand team have been suffering Norovirus this week.

Are they getting their excuses in early?

Seriously though, if you get vomitting on Wednesday, your at only half strength on Thursday. By Saturday you'll still be a few percent off your top form.

[Omelette]

omlette i hear ya- you lucky £$%^ btw for going to the game.

have a good one.

PS: We are gonna win

+1 on the "have a good one"

And since it's Panto season (nearly), on the "we're going to win" one:
Oh no you're not!

Cheers lads, i'll definitely try, although i am with PC on this one. i definitely think 'we are behind them' when it comes to the mens game at the moment.

[gregortree]

BREAKING NEWS BBC:
"New Zealand's preparations for Saturday's Test against England have been disrupted because of a sickness bug which has swept through the squad. Head coach Steve Hansen revealed all but two members of his squad have suffered with diarrhoea and vomiting."

Looks like Biltong's S African chef has been drafted in as England's 16th man:

[OzT]

SUZIE!!!!!

[disneychilly]

Looks like Suzie visited too early as some of the ABs started to get sick in Wales. Should be good to go for Saturday.

Checked the forecast for Sat-looks bloody freezing but dry. Anyone local have a more accurate description of the weather this week? If it is wet it'll be a hell of a game and one England can definitely win. But the wider NZ are the able to play the lesser England's chances. Another blow for them is Mr Carter looks ok to start. He can guide a pack around in any weather and his defence will be an added bonus in his channel.

[gregortree]

Yes, I recall Biltong said he would fly Suzie in before the Wales game.

[Bathman_in_London]

Suzie! I knew there were a lot of Saffas in London...

Omlette, where are you sitting? I think I'm in the nosebleed seats in the West Stand.
Its sunny here at the moment but cold, as I understand it thats going to continue through into the weekend, so sadly we won't be able to drag NZ into a muddy arm wrestle!

[disneychilly]

Thanks Bathman. It's even colder here in Dublin. Sad thing is I can't even see the game as I'm on a flight to the US. I don't think Delta staff will give enough of a toss to keep me updated either. Have to run into the Starbucks at Atlanta airport to use the wifi...

[Bathman_in_London]

I think you'll be lucky if the Delta staff have heard of rugby, let alone score updates!

[Omelette]

north stand, middle tier bathman.

I was up in the west stand heavens for the fiji game. top row of the top tier no less. My advice is don't look down when walking up the steps and drink lots of cider to counter the nose bleeds.

Looks like its going to be cold and dry... perfect.

[Chjw131]

You'll just have to explain it to them along the lines of American Football.

"Well you see it's like American Football but it's a real sport and much better"

[tatterd]

Well, optimism on these boards by some. I have to say that I don't think this will be the mauling that is expected either. I see our major problem is staying with the blacks in the first half. Southern Hemisphere teams seem to be conditioned to be more explosive and powerful than the northern hemisphere teams, who seem to be conditioned for a more attritional style of rugby. This has shown in both England games and the welsh game last weekend, where the northern hemisphere sides finished strongly (Although this could be put down to NZ taking their foot of the gas and England being within a score both times, which always gets the adrenalin and therefore energy levels up).

For this reason I think we could compete on the score board very well in the second half. I just hope we haven't been blown away in the first.

Overall I think a 10-15 point win for the blacks.

I just hope we see England rise to the blacks level to keep the score down to this and not England dragging the blacks down to their level.

Sounds like this one has been explosive out of their a****s since Wednesday!

[disneychilly]

You drag in the Yanks on stats-they LOVE number crunching in sport. A .760 record in tests and .840 vs all comers makes them stand up and take notice. The Yankees I don't even know are .600.

Glad the weather is ok for you guys too. Let's see (well me later on on YouTube) some good running rugby from both teams.

[Bathman_in_London]

north stand, middle tier bathman.

I was up in the west stand heavens for the fiji game. top row of the top tier no less. My advice is don't look down when walking up the steps and drink lots of cider to counter the nose bleeds.

Looks like its going to be cold and dry... perfect.

Thats the sort of advice I like! Although if its really cold the guinness will have to replace the cider!

[EnglishReign]

I see SL has described Lawes as "physical but athletic". That's a new one.

[gregortree]

So to recall the old saying he can:

"Run, jump, fight, f#@k,
wheel a barrow, drive a truck"

[Geordie]

I see SL has described Lawes as "physical but athletic". That's a new one.

I think thats a fair statement most would agree with. He's bulked up over the summer - he's over 18st now...and knows how to dish it out however he's still got some pace etc.

Him and Launchbury could be a very useful SR....

[bluestonevedder]

I see SL has described Lawes as "physical but athletic". That's a new one.

I think thats a fair statement most would agree with. He's bulked up over the summer - he's over 18st now...and knows how to dish it out however he's still got some pace etc.

Him and Launchbury could be a very useful SR....

If one of them can establish themselves as a lineout caller/leader, the could be seriously good together.

[Geordie]

If Crofts in there...no issues

[Bathman_in_London]

Thats a whole other topic Geordie!


I am pleased to hear than Lawes has really filled out, I have felt in the past like he was neither big enough to be a world class 'enforcer' type or good enough in the linout to be the man who runs the line out.

Him and Launchbury could be very good together, although I wonder if 1 will replace the other to keep Parling on?

[bluestonevedder]

Parling's got to continue improving with each game. He was fantastic against SA, and has to now build on that this weekend. He looked like he finally brought his domestic game onto the international scene, which is good news for England if he can consistently do that!

[gregortree]

I feel ok about the England pack, although McCaw will be a menace in the ground warfare. I fear 'holding on' type penalties if we are not careful.
But the AB backs... just don't let them get near the ball or they will Muller England on the firm going which is forecast.

ABs by 10-15 differential I feel would be a realistic 'result' sadly.

[Scrumpy]

Does anyone think that we'll score a try this week?
I can't see it with Farrell at 10 and you rarely beat the All Blacks without one or two

[gregortree]

Mr Ubogo,
we may score a try , but I do not feel we will beat the ABs this time out.

[gregortree]

SL has a plan:
The plan is to score more points than the All Blacks. (slight irony)

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

SL has a plan:
The plan is to score more points than the All Blacks.

Clearly not if hes picking Farrell....

[mystiroakey]

Farrell is gonna suprise you all. tidy player imo

[Taylorman]

Farrell already has surprised this week without doing anything.

In all honesty mysti, every time I look at the England team names then across to the AB list I just shake my head...

Theres more caps in the likely AB front row than the entire England xv I've heard- only 250 or less between them? Is that correct?

[mystiroakey]

well yeah if your good enough and all that.. But it must be pretty hard to be an england selector- so much stock and its tough to find the cream.

I am sure the selection will be very different come 6nations time- some of these youngters really need to push in this last game for a secured place

[hugehandoff]

This could be very painful for England. ABs will score tries and England probably won't. If England can keep it to less than 30 point margin they will have done well. It will be interesting to see how many aspects go, particularly the loose forward battle. We know England cannot create or finish much but their pack is decent and no doubt the possession and territory stats will look ok, but Farrell will need to keep the scoreboard ticking over with kicks. Watching the Rugby Club last night was painful with Ashton butchering 1 try and Barritt lacking basic skills. I will watch from behind the sofa. I am sending the kids and the dog to friends as I fear my language will be purple.

[Taylorman]

For the ABs this will be about putting AB pride back on the map, they'll come out with Kapo o pango and they'll want end on a high.

Its at the same ground they'll be aiming to defend their World Cup title in 2015 and its the last test for a good six months after an admittedly long, but well managed season compared to our SH traditional foe.

Every player is available and fit (bar the bug which appears to have gone) and when I keep seeing those team sheets side by side....jeez...this young England side had better band together for this one...

[Effervescing Elephant]

So are we getting Kapo o pango then Taylorman? Will be a very special moment for much of the young England team. In fact have any of this team ever played the All Blacks before?

[beshocked]

One thing that has been forgotten is that England do actually have a pretty decent defense. I think England can stop NZ pouring on too many points but the real problem is where England get theirs.

It's up to the pack to step up in my opinion. England cannot afford to give Carter too many kickable penalties. Cannot afford for Youngs to have another poor day at the lineout.

To stand any chance first and foremost England must be clinical.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Right BS, its not much different to the situation 2 years ago. At least this time we have 2 fullbacks in the side rather than Monye.
Englands pack is strong enough to get some ball and disrupt NZ. The question is if we dont get chances can we convert them to points.
We certainly wont be creating many unless something dramtic changes, and the selections dont suggest that it will. Englands record of creating tries through structured play is truely woeful under Lancaster, and unlikely to be better against a side like NZ.

21-12

[gregortree]

I had a good nights sleep, and in the clear light of dawn a vision
came to me. Get you money on:

12 - 28

[Taylorman]

So are we getting Kapo o pango then Taylorman? Will be a very special moment for much of the young England team. In fact have any of this team ever played the All Blacks before?

The factors that sugest Kapo o pango:
-last weeks Hore disaster suggests they'll want to put pride back into the side and the ABs
-Its at Rugby headquarters, home of the next WC final
-Its the AB top side and last match for half a year for these guys
-England are normally the most competitive when we go north.

On that basis I'd say 80% likely to be Kapo.

Defence is a relative term. The ABs have scored more than twice as many tries this year than the next side and England wasnt one of them so as good as Englands defence has been, it hasnt been against an attack as good as the AB one.

Just too many factors to overcome here, so I have my hat ready to eat but somehow dont think I'll need to.

[maestegmafia]

Englands record of creating tries through structured play is truely woeful under Lancaster

And Johnson and Robinson. How long do you think Lancaster will last? If this doesn't go well and the Six Nations go poorly will he get the boot early?

Italy, France, Ireland are all much better sides than last year.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

I had a good nights sleep, and in the clear light of dawn a vision
came to me. Get you money on:

12 - 28

Sounds like a controversial TMO decision between our dreams

[gregortree]

PSW: could be ...

[beshocked]

I had a dream only on Wednesday that a Kiwi got sent off in the 15th minute and that another got sin binned 5 minutes player. I think it was my conscience telling me this the only possible way England might win.

Didn't see the end score though.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Is pooing yourself and projectile vomitting on the ref a red card offence? We have a chance if it is

[gregortree]

Well, players are obliged to leave the field for blood injury.
I see no reason this law should not apply to all body fluids.
(yukkky )

[bluestonevedder]

Well, players are obliged to leave the field for blood injury.
I see no reason this law should not apply to all body fluids.
(yukkky )

Reminds me of when Jerry Collins had a sneaky wee on the pitch before a match!

[Barney McGrew did it]

I believe they're trialling a brown card for the runny bottoms this weekend. The weeing would be covered by a yellow.

[bluestonevedder]

I believe they're trialling a brown card for the runny bottoms this weekend. The weeing would be covered by a yellow.

God, I dread to think what the white card is for...

[RubyGuby]

My moneys on Ashton in that case for the first brown card - different orrifice of course but illegal nonetheless

[Bathman_in_London]

I believe they're trialling a brown card for the runny bottoms this weekend. The weeing would be covered by a yellow.

The black kit will hide the stains though.

Another case of NZ pushing the rules too far and the IRB doing nothing about it?!

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