Scarlets v Ulster next Sunday

First topic message reminder :

How poxed lucky are Ulster? They get to play the 2nd place team in the league....away.....on the weekend that Wales play Australia.

On the other hand it is on a Sunday and their HC game v Northampton is on the following Friday.

So, a few swings mixed in with the roundabouts there. Especially considering Northampton have their game on the Friday.

I'm sure Ulster will cope. Better off having the 2 away matches in a row IMHO

Ulster Team:

P Nelson; A Trimble, D Cave, L Marshall, C Gilroy; P Jackson, P Marshall;
(1-8): C Black, R Herring, J Afoa, J Muller (c), N McComb, I Henderson, R Diack, R Wilson;
Replacements (16-23): R Best, T Court, R Lutton, D Tuohy, M McComish, M Heaney, N O’Connor, T Bowe.

Scarlet's Team:

15. Dan Newton 14. Kristian Phillips 13. Gareth Maule 12. Gareth Owen 11. Andy Fenby 10. Aled Thomas 9. Gareth Davies 1. Phil John 2. Emyr Phillips 3. Jacobie Adriaanse 4. Johan Snyman 5. Richard Kelly 6. George Earle 7. Johnathan Edwards (capt) 8. Kieran Murphy
Replacements
16. Kirby Myhill 17. Shaun Hopkins 18. Deacon Manu 19. Tomas Vallejos 20. Craig Price 21. Aled Davies 22. Adam Warren 23. Nick Reynolds

McComish is a 7 so I'd imagine he'll get the nod.

rodders wrote:McComish is a 7 so I'd imagine he'll get the nod.

Who knew? Jaysus yiz like tall 7s up there.

OK I'm mixing them up.

He's McComb the other lad is only McComb ish

Ok now I'm doubting myself... look bottom line is one of them is a 7.....

A loss against the Scarlets won't derail Ulster's Rabo chances, but a loss at Franklin Gardens would put a serious dent in their HEC campaign.

I'd pick:
Black, Best, Fitzpatrick
Muller, Tuohy
Diack, Wilson, McComish
PMarshall, Jackson
LMarshall, Cave
Gilroy, Payne, Trimble
Subs: Herring, Court, Afoa, McComb, Williams, Heaney, O'Connor, Nelson

With the five-day turnaround, Pienaar and Wallace will almost certainly start against the Saints, but it's the forwards that will be under most pressure in the Heineken so the pack really needs to be tactically managed over the two games.
I'd start Black and Fitzpatrick (who needs gametime anyway) to play the majority of the game as Court and Afoa need to be as fresh as possible for the HEC.
Best obviously needs match fitness so should start.
Muller and Tuohy could both use the gametime from the start and McComb can fill in if Muller fades.
Henry will also start against the Saints so the plan has to be to play McComish for the full 80 in this one.
It is likely that Henderson will start at 6 against the Saints, so he might as well be rested for this one. That leaves a straight shootout between Diack, McComish, Wilson and Williams for two places in the HEC squad.
This strategy means that Tuohy would be the only likely starter in the pack against the Saints to have played a full game against the Scarlets.

By the same token I'd be seriously tempted to rest Bowe completely for the Scarlets game, and play Gilroy and Trimble on the wings. Subbing Payne with Nelson would mean that only Cave (who hasn't had a lot of rugby recently) and one of the wings would have played full games on Sunday and then had to start against Northampton on Friday.

The Great Aukster wrote:A loss against the Scarlets won't derail Ulster's Rabo chances, but a loss at Franklin Gardens would put a serious dent in their HEC campaign.

Let's hope the Ulster management share that opinion and feild a complete second string side, give us an equal playing feild.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:A loss against the Scarlets won't derail Ulster's Rabo chances, but a loss at Franklin Gardens would put a serious dent in their HEC campaign.

Let's hope the Ulster management share that opinion and feild a complete second string side, give us an equal playing feild.

I was thinking th esame earlier in the week, Ulster have earned tohe right to rest players and risk losing games

rodders wrote:

MrsP wrote:
So Pienaar and Wallace rested. Still no sign of Darcy. Nice to see a squad with more than one lock available!

Interesting that Wallace is left out. What chances that we will see Gilroy, Bowe and Trimble all start here?

I'm hoping for a Marshall-Cave partnership and Payne at fullback so... don't really mind which of the three wingers is left out. The way I see it, we're strong whoever sits on the bench.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:A loss against the Scarlets won't derail Ulster's Rabo chances, but a loss at Franklin Gardens would put a serious dent in their HEC campaign.

Let's hope the Ulster management share that opinion and feild a complete second string side, give us an equal playing feild.

With our record away to Scarlets I hope we play as strong a team as possible. I'm not taking the Rabo for granted and would much prefer to be going to Franklin's Gardens on the back of another win on the road (+ a Grand Slam in Wales) rather than our first loss of the season.
I can't see both Muller and Best starting so I'd settle for Best on the bench. Would start with one of Court or Afoa as well. Scarlets will still be strong up front.

Agree with all the points Rava makes. Resting more players than what we already are is unwise. We are resting a few guys already and a win here would lay down a massive marker to our playoff rivals. This will be as strong a side as we can put out without those guys involved, most likely with Best and Muller on the bench.

Perhaps I have too much faith in the squad players!

Best and Muller are crucial links in the lineout, surely it would be foolish not to give them as much time on the pitch together as possible to get them back up to match speed as a unit?

Just depends on their fitness to be honest. I'd expect them both to be rusty, if they're ready to start two games in five days all the better.

Apparently Best isn't a definite starter. Hes due to have a fitness test before a decision on his involvement is made.

actually Scarlets is one pro 12 game we can't really afford to slip up in, lose at gap at top of table, is reduced by 4 points, win and gap extends by 4 points. For me beating Scarlets without thier internationals, will give a lot of breathing space.

I'd say normally Scarlets V Ulster = 50/50, Scarlets home, gives them the advantage, Scarlets without welsh internationals gives Ulster advantage. So over all I'd say its back to being a 50/50 game.

Top of the table clash, game of the weekend for me.

Will wait and see the teams before decide who I think will win.

Kingshu wrote:actually Scarlets is one pro 12 game we can't really afford to slip up in, lose at gap at top of table, is reduced by 4 points, win and gap extends by 4 points. For me beating Scarlets without thier internationals, will give a lot of breathing space.

I'd say normally Scarlets V Ulster = 50/50, Scarlets home, gives them the advantage, Scarlets without welsh internationals gives Ulster advantage. So over all I'd say its back to being a 50/50 game.
Top of the table clash, game of the weekend for me.

Will wait and see the teams before decide who I think will win.

Personally I said when the fixtures came out theis match was about 55-45 to the Scarlets, then Ulster turned out to be a far better side than I expected so I started thinking 40-60 in the favour of Ulster, but then last weekend the Scarlets pack really manned up, so I am thinking 45-55 in Ulsters favour. But until the teams are both named I will continue to flit about between who has the better chances. One thing for certain when the whistle blows it will be more like 90-10 in the Scarlets favour in my head.

I really do wish the WRU wouldn't screw the regions over in this way. This shouldbe the most important home game in the league for the Scarlets, and we are having to play in a weakened state. If there is any justice in the world Wales will end up slipping up against Aus, and dropping out of hte second teir, and lossing out on the pink hat brigade support for the 6Ns. But sadly that would only cause the WRU to cut funding tot he regions etc.

Ulster positions up for grabs vs Northampton

6 Henderson vs Diack - hopefully they both get time this weekend to prove themselves. Henderson big favourite
8 Williams vs Wilson - Williams had good early season form, but this is a game for Roger. Against his old club and a solid option. Williams would be good as an impact sub against a tiring team.
11 Golden boy of the moment Gilroy or solid and physical Trimble. My moneys on Gilroy... be hard to leave him out. Mark Anscombe may still favour Trimble though. Depends on how they play this weekend
12 Marshall to get a game this weekend, may not be enough to oust Paddy - one of our most consistent performers of the past few seasons

I'd say the rest of the slots are sown up depending on fitness

Kingshu wrote:actually Scarlets is one pro 12 game we can't really afford to slip up in, lose at gap at top of table, is reduced by 4 points, win and gap extends by 4 points. For me beating Scarlets without thier internationals, will give a lot of breathing space.

Yeah I agree. I think if Scarlets hadn't turned over Munster at home then we could have let this one slide, but if we were to lose this it would put our league position under a bit of pressure. A win, whilst not essential, would be very handy here....certainly we need a big performance to keep the momentum going with the run of huge games coming up in December.

Well Gilroy is clearly more dangerous than Trimble in attack. But we've been scoring plenty of tries with Trimble in the side, and he tightens up our defence quite a bit.

I'd go for Trimble at Franklins Gardens to be honest. I'd like to see Gilroy command a place in the first XV sooner or later, but he still has a bit of a tendency to get himself into bad positions on defence.

I don't think Diack is in with a shout of challenging Henderson in truth. I hope anscombe hasn't already decided on Wallace and Trimble and that Gilroy and Marshall can give him a headache this sunday

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I really do wish the WRU wouldn't screw the regions over in this way. This shouldbe the most important home game in the league for the Scarlets, and we are having to play in a weakened state. If there is any justice in the world Wales will end up slipping up against Aus, and dropping out of hte second teir, and lossing out on the pink hat brigade support for the 6Ns. But sadly that would only cause the WRU to cut funding tot he regions etc.

It's a real shame for the credibility of this league. It's arguably the biggest game of the Pro12 season so far, and it's being completely overshadowed by a needless moneygrab extra test match. This is exactly the kind of game that Welsh Rugby needs to market to sell the league, to turn this into a big event in Llanelli and the surrounding region and generate buzz about it. 2nd vs 1st- should be a big draw.

From the outside, the WRU has a very passive aggressive approach towards the regions. From not funding them to keep Welsh internationals in the regions (which is crazy when you hear Warren Gatland, their own head coach, questioning the fitness of French-based players and the obvious issues over availability) to stunts like this extra test match every year it seems that they don't care if the regions fail.

Standulstermen wrote:I don't think Diack is in with a shout of challenging Henderson in truth. I hope anscombe hasn't already decided on Wallace and Trimble and that Gilroy and Marshall can give him a headache this sunday

You're probably right. Is amazing how accomplished Hendo has looked so far. If he keeps going like his and stevie gets fit could he move to 5 and squeeze Tuohy out?

It should be a big game the Scarlets sell out for, Derbies are big, but after that for Scarlets, Ulster is/should be the biggest game, add thats its a top of the table clash and you'd think it would actually be bigger than the Dragons Derby and possible Blues Derby.

However it will be completey overshadowed in Wales by the Wales V Aus game.

Don't know if I can say its a "shame for the credibility of this league" as the RFU have an extra game as well and no one says it effects the credibility of this league.

But I do think the league would be benefit without the extra international games, as the pro 12 teams have more internations per squad than any other league these games do effect us more.

I actually think the league really misses out on publisty for these sort of games, I bet that the average Glasgow/Munster etc fan, doesn't even know there is a top of the table clash this weekend, whereas if it was the Aviva Prem it would be all over the place, outside of Derbies the league doesn't do enough to sell itself, and derbies pretty much sell themselves.

This is a big game, the currently two best teams in the Pro 12, it should be getting coverage in Wales/Ireland Scotland and Italy, it the only way the league can gain support, rather than just the local teams.

Kingshu - to be honest (and I mentioned it on another thread) the Scarlets V Ulster is IMO a derby match, we both seem to raise and fall around the same times. When we won our first (as this year will be scond) Celtic League title it was a two horse race between us and you. There has been a bit of history if you will. If the WRU wanted to push the regions they would have found a work around to allow the likes of Scott Williams, Tavis Knoyle, Ken Owens, and Samson Lee to avoid bench warming and play for us instead.

That said the omens are good for the Scarlets, so far the Welsh squad have diappointed the rugby public on the Saturday and then the Scarlets have repaired faith in the game on the Sunday. So fingers corssed.

I know you ScarletSpiderman feel that Ulster is becoming a kinda derby (not sure I'd use term Derby, more sporting rivalry) can we give it a cool name like Real V Barca isn't a derby but its called El Clásico.

Last Minute Derby?
The way rugby should be played match?
saucepan match - winner presented with a saucepan?
or get that rag doll back of Bath and we'll play you for it? Sure we did the double over Bath 2 years in a row, they may like to make it a 3 way thing?
any other ideas?

Sure if you win this one, I'd let you to keep Sparky till we play next, and if we win we keep Cochyn the Dragon, till the next game.

But I wonder do other, less diehard Scarlet supports, really know about the Ulster Rivally, or are they more intrested in the Blues and Dragons games?

For me a turning point in the league, is when Rivalries with teams outside your own country become bigger than some Derbies. Ulster V Scarlets could be bigger than V Connacht, and for Scarlets bigger than V Dragons, and possibly Blues.

Ulster fans might be interested in watching 'Ear to the Ground" tonight (RTE1, 8.30). Will probably also be on the RTE Player.

Darragh McCullough meets Ireland rugby union player Rory Best and his brother Simon, and learns why they both enjoy farming

Nice one Sin é. Cheers.

Cheers

Sin é, thats very thoughtful of you. You make me feel guilty about giving you a hard time!

See Jake Ball the Scarlets lock is suspended for two weeks after the incident against Munster- not what the Scarlets needed to hear!

Scarlet lock Jake Ball won't be playing in this game. Been given 2 week ban for " charging into ruck or maul without binding"

Guess our pack will look something like:

John, Phillips, Adriaanse
Snyman/Kelly, Earle
Vallejos, Price, Edwards (if fit)

Not having Samson Lee to come off the bench is also a blow for us. But congratulations to him for what should be his 1st Welsh cap.

Will McCusker not be released from the Wales squad, pioden? Thus possibly allowing Vallejos to play second row?

clivemcl wrote:Sin é, thats very thoughtful of you. You make me feel guilty about giving you a hard time!

Only testing to see how many Ulsterfans had me on ignore


Someone better tell Hookie!

Miaow: last I saw mccusker was wearing one of those protective boots. Did his ankle on welsh duty. Not sure how long he's out for.

pioden gorllewin wrote:Scarlet lock Jake Ball won't be playing in this game. Been given 2 week ban for " charging into ruck or maul without binding"

Not sure what to make of this. You see players doing pretty much the same every game, right in fromt of the Ref (as in this instance) and not even a warning given. Far worse incidents such as in the Wales v Samoa game also resulted in players being injured and again no action.

Also just how are you suposed to drive a player off the ball in the ruck, if you are alone and have no one to bind with or surely if you do bind with another player and drive in the impact and risk for injury will be even greater?

On the other hand any clarity that can be brought to this situation is good, in order to avoid players being injured or even worse (I seem to remember a tragedy in the Welsh Premiership where a player died after a similar incident).

I lost all faith in rugby's ability to deal with foul play after the Stowers incident at PYS this season, a forearm smash to the face, at least as serious as the incident on Saturday was just ignored by the match officials and disciplinary panel. Rugby (Old Farts in Blazers) needs to get its house in order and be consistant in the way it addresses foul play, take strong action but be consistant!

Sin é wrote:Ulster fans might be interested in watching 'Ear to the Ground" tonight (RTE1, 8.30). Will probably also be on the RTE Player.

Darragh McCullough meets Ireland rugby union player Rory Best and his brother Simon, and learns why they both enjoy farming

I don't have you on ignore, I was just .... well, ignoring you


Only joshing. Thanks for the heads up!!

pioden gorllewin wrote:Scarlet lock Jake Ball won't be playing in this game. Been given 2 week ban for " charging into ruck or maul without binding"

Justice4Ball.

Well at least that citing commisioner had ball(s). Unlike the one in the Wales/Samoa match.

The back-row is still unbalanced, unlike the oppositions. It's time to give Kieran Murphy or Dan Thomas a start. Pack should be pretty strong anyway with new Saffa additions. And I'm not taking anything away from guys like Richard Kelly, he's stepped up every time he's been selected.

Not sure if Murphy is injured or not. Dan thomas might play, easterby likes playing with a fetcher at 7. The rest of our pack should be big enough to accommodate Dan thomas lack of physicality. Depends if Jonathan Edwards is injured I guess.

Murphys injured im pretty sure otherwise hed b playing - d thomas should b playing but we have 3 7s - edwards, thomas and price fit in the backrow, but no 8s and only vallejos to play 6. (why we left gilbert go...)

According to the scarlets website rhodri jones and rob evans r back in training which is great news. But edwards, k phillips and murphy r having fitness tests

I am really really ticked off that Ball has been banned, and I do wonder if Ronan hadn't been stretchered off whether their would hav eeven been a citing in the first place. I personally think that Ball got banned for ht injury caused and not the offence, as I have seen far worse offences of clearing the ruck (Kees Meeuws for Scarlets a few years ago off his feet and flew like a missle in from the side) that have been a pen and sometimes a card but nothing more. I wonder if Biggar had been stretcheder off if the Samoan would have been banned.

Oops forgot to post what I meant to post

I would expect the team to be pretty much the same as last week, but with Dan Thomas stepping in for Edwards (if unfit), and Timani or Snyman stepping in for Ball. I would consider having Vallejos on the bench but not starting,a s he has not really impressed me yet when he has played for us.

Today is Friday. It upsets me this match is still two days away.

Dan thomas playing for rfc against aberavon tomorrow I think. So won't be involved for Ulster game.

pioden gorllewin wrote:Dan thomas playing for rfc against aberavon tomorrow I think. So won't be involved for Ulster game.

So at a guess that means both Johny Eds and Murphy are fit and going to start with Price on the bench.

Think price has done enough to keep his place in the team. Reckon it will be:

Vallejos, price, Edwards.

Is the team being announced today?

pioden gorllewin wrote:Think price has done enough to keep his place in the team. Reckon it will be:

Vallejos, price, Edwards.

Is the team being announced today?

I think it should be around lunch today.

Big shame Dan Thomas hasn't been given a chance, at least from the bench - he looks very bright and promising.

Am annoyed about Ball (he looked very good) and as someone else mentioned the Stowers forearm smash at the start of the season was much worse, yet nothing happened with that.

I'd have a backrow of Timani, Eds (would have chosen D thomas despite lack of experience), and Price (or Murphy if fit), then Vallejos on the bench to cover 4,5 and 6 and have a lock pairing of Snyman and Earle.

Ohh by the way, has Stoddart been called up to the Welsh squad?

(and who wants to bet North will be out until January when he'll be fit to play a 'warm-up' game with us before going away to Wales camp, and been played into the ground for the 6N's and injured for the rest of the season?)

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Ohh by the way, has Stoddart been called up to the Welsh squad?

(and who wants to bet North will be out until January when he'll be fit to play a 'warm-up' game with us before going away to Wales camp, and been played into the ground for the 6N's and injured for the rest of the season?)

I heard he had been called up the same as Kirby pretty much as tackle fodder, but I doubt he will be retained in the squad, especially seeing as this is the last match.

I would agree with you about North, the player wellfare issues with the Welsh squad are shocking.