Sports personality

First topic message reminder :

Only golfer making the list this year is Rory. The list is dominated by Olympians and Paralympians as expected. In fact, Rory is the only entry from the dozen not to have competed at London 2012. But do any of the others really deserve the annual title more than he does. Many have had great careers, but 2012 has just added the cherry on top. Murray has done something pretty special, but really is a couple of gears behind Rory...
Thoughts?...

If you look at some of the past winners to say Wiggins doesnt deserve it would be nit picking in the extreme. A TDF (even with a team thats an incredibly high tariff sporting event, the very pinnacle) plus an Olympic Gold.
As Ive said earlier he wouldnt be my first choice, Id probably go Farah I think, but if Farah won it Id think he was one of the more deserved winners in the history of SPOTY.

gaelgowfer wrote:Well, for what it's worth, I've voted for Jessica Ennis. Fabulous athlete and loads of personality. Yon hurdles and then finishing the event off in style by winning the 800 metres ... absolutely thrilling.

Shame Murray won his first Grand Slam in Olympic year not to mention Wiggins winning the TdeF so, he's got no chance.

Would Wiggins be a worthy winner? Not sure about that. At the end of the day, he needed a team around him in order to make his win happen.

Gael to be fair ALL the main contenders have a pretty extensive team supporting them in terms of coaching, nutrition, physios etc as well as team mates. At the end of the day...Wiggins still had to turn his own pedals for over 2000 miles including howfing his way up mountain passes, how can you come to the conclusion that having teammates somehow diminishes that achievement??

...and if help from teammates is a no no how comes Giggs won it?

To be fair, this time last year who could possibly have foreseen what an impossible choice this years SPOTY would be? What a brilliant year for this countries sport when achievements like Ainsley's, Hoy's, Ennis', McIlroys, Weirs... fantastic though they were, are probably not even going to get them a podium finish. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't be miffed if either did. A TdF and a Grand Slam title both ON top of an Olympic gold are unprecedented (even Armstrong when systematically cheating couldn't achieve the former, nor could the best players ever to wield a racket achieve an Olympic gold to go with a grand slam). I feel really sorry for Farrah because he so deserves it as well and like I've said any of the others mentioned earlier would be worthy winners.

Looking at this from a sideways slant.

I am a pretty keen sports fan.

I found it difficult to name the sport/distance of three of the finalist.

Got two eventually! [but I would not bet the hoose on it]

Some are certainly in there in order to meet a certain agenda following criticism in previous years. Shame people aren't in there purely on achievement.

such as who sr? I don't think you can argue with the Paralympians achievements, maybe Grainger being on the list is somewhat generous (I'd have gone with Laura Trott myself) but don't think you can argue against any of the other names...

Should there be a parasports personality of the year award ? The sports themselves are seperated so why not the award, are we being too PC ?

Thingy Adams, Really how much competition did she have as a female boxer? Personality in spades though.

Does anyone really care about Ellie Simmonds? Was her ahievement more worthy than Brownlee, or is it just because she's female and a midget?

Hi Chelsea,
No-one here is arguing "with the "Paralympians achievements", just about how they should be categorised.
(Sound familiar??!!)

Wonder whether Calvin Peete would have qualified for Paralympic Golf?

I'm not so sure: Adams had the distinction of being the first ever gold medalist female boxer, which probably counts for something (she did it in style too, utterly dominant), and of course, as you say she's got plenty of "personality".

Simmonds had a great Paralympics too, not sure the exact number but it was I think 2 gold medals and at least a couple of "minor" medals to go with. Think she very much deserves to be on the list.

Kwini, sounds vaguely familiar yes . Personally I think it's a good thing the Paralympians have been recognised alongside the able-bodied athletes: for me they have every right to be treated the same, though I understand the viewpoint.

Gota be Murray, olympic gold and US open.

At the rate the Irish boys are winning majors I would say for them to have a look in for SPOTY sombody will have to win multiple majors to be considered.

Hoagie, I do wish people would stop bringing up the Irish Golfers as if they are dominating golf. You've got two distinct countries from which three, count em, players have won majors. It's not because they are to use the colloquial term Irish that they won, its pure coincidence. Harrington doesn't even count because he's from the republic in terms if SPOTY, only Brits count.

Golf will never be taken seriously at SPOTY because it isn't cool enough, not enough people watch it and it is seldom on BBC and it isn't athletic enough either to credibly compared with tennis, cycling and athletics.

It is an absolute certainty that am olympian will get the award because of the BBC coverage being in a position to highlight their achievements.

Not if all the UK golfers decide to vote for Rory [like the darts players did for the darts player a few years ago]

The darts player still didn't win though did he? And anyway, it would only be voting for someone because of the sport that he does and not because of the scale of his achievement, which laudable as it is, isn't really as important in a sporting context as Murray winning the US Open, Wiggins winning TDF or David Weir or Mo Farah.

Golf just doesn't figure in the public consciousness as much as some golfers would like it to.

Just because you are uk golfer doesn't mean it's your only sport or indeed your favourite sport. Also watching sport and playing are two completely different things.
I think a lot of people golf but don't care about the pro game. And if you we're to do a general poll amongst random people of which was the most boring sport to watch golf would come near the top.

Totally agree Diggers. It's all very academic anyway, McIlroy, as good as his achievements have been in 2012 are dwarfed by more than 3 of the others, so unless there is a massive surprise and people start to believe that wearing "slacks" and walking, occasionally hitting a ball constitutes a sport then McIlroy has more chance of crapping in the Queens handbag than getting into the top three, no wonder he's not bothering to turn up.

JAS wrote:

gaelgowfer wrote:Well, for what it's worth, I've voted for Jessica Ennis. Fabulous athlete and loads of personality. Yon hurdles and then finishing the event off in style by winning the 800 metres ... absolutely thrilling.

Shame Murray won his first Grand Slam in Olympic year not to mention Wiggins winning the TdeF so, he's got no chance.

Would Wiggins be a worthy winner? Not sure about that. At the end of the day, he needed a team around him in order to make his win happen.

Gael to be fair ALL the main contenders have a pretty extensive team supporting them in terms of coaching, nutrition, physios etc as well as team mates. At the end of the day...Wiggins still had to turn his own pedals for over 2000 miles including howfing his way up mountain passes, how can you come to the conclusion that having teammates somehow diminishes that achievement??

...and if help from teammates is a no no how comes Giggs won it?

To be fair, this time last year who could possibly have foreseen what an impossible choice this years SPOTY would be? What a brilliant year for this countries sport when achievements like Ainsley's, Hoy's, Ennis', McIlroys, Weirs... fantastic though they were, are probably not even going to get them a podium finish. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't be miffed if either did. A TdF and a Grand Slam title both ON top of an Olympic gold are unprecedented (even Armstrong when systematically cheating couldn't achieve the former, nor could the best players ever to wield a racket achieve an Olympic gold to go with a grand slam). I feel really sorry for Farrah because he so deserves it as well and like I've said any of the others mentioned earlier would be worthy winners.

JAS ... I see where you're coming from in respect of previous winners having been part of a team but I still don't think the Giggs/football analogy quite matches the Wiggins/cycling one. Whilst Giggs does get support from his team-mates, he also provides support to them. On the other hand, isn't the primary function of a racing team to support its lead rider by, for example, providing a slipstream for him? So you see, if that's the case, then I would regard Wiggins' win as falling somewhere between an individual and team performance.

Actually Gael Wiggins did support his team which is rare for a team leader. He led off for some Cavendish sprints for a start.

So sports personality should only be open to those who compete on a completely individual basis?

So this year it will be awarded to a shadow boxer or Solitaire player

Therefore, no one who has ever ridden a horse, driven an F1 car, played golf etc can ever be nominated for SPOTY.

And even "a shadow boxer and solitaire player" would probably have a psychologist, a nutritionist, and a manager

Diggers wrote:Actually Gael Wiggins did support his team which is rare for a team leader. He led off for some Cavendish sprints for a start.

I don't follow cycling but I'm guessing he felt able to help out a team-mate without compromising his own chances of winning the overall event? Yes, it was a 'teamly' thing to do but, ultimately, probably meaningless in the context of the whole event.

gaelgowfer wrote:

Diggers wrote:Actually Gael Wiggins did support his team which is rare for a team leader. He led off for some Cavendish sprints for a start.

I don't follow cycling but I'm guessing he felt able to help out a team-mate without compromising his own chances of winning the overall event? Yes, it was a 'teamly' thing to do but, ultimately, probably meaningless in the context of the whole event.

That's obvious.

Wiggins' achievements and reason for nomination this year amount to much more than the TDF anyway, regardless of what your layman views on cycling are.

There are several events within the TDF race Gael so Wiggins helping Cav was to help him to try and get the points jersey and also stage wins themselves are highly prized.

Diggers wrote:...I think a lot of people golf but don't care about the pro game...

Good point. Count me in as far as that goes.

super_realist wrote:

gaelgowfer wrote:

Diggers wrote:Actually Gael Wiggins did support his team which is rare for a team leader. He led off for some Cavendish sprints for a start.

I don't follow cycling but I'm guessing he felt able to help out a team-mate without compromising his own chances of winning the overall event? Yes, it was a 'teamly' thing to do but, ultimately, probably meaningless in the context of the whole event.

That's obvious.

Wiggins' achievements and reason for nomination this year amount to much more than the TDF anyway, regardless of what your layman views on cycling are.

Talk about antagonism for the sake of it!

Kwini

If you read my first post on the thread I mentioned I managed to click the wrong button and dont know how to undo my vote. I certainly meant to vote for her and think she is the clear winner.

again, I'm not sure people understand the scale of Wiggins's achievements (due to a fair few of them not being televised), so here goes again:

- first Brit to win the TdF, the biggest event in cycling
- won Gold at the Olympics (incidentally, didn't need any help from his team there)
- won three week-long races: Tour de Romandie, Paris-Nice and Dauphine Libere. Now the latter two are probably the most prestigious week-long races in cycling, and the Dauphine-TdF double is a fabulous achievement as the TdF is shortly after the Dauphine, and it's very difficult for cyclists to peak for that long.
- unbeaten in long-distance (ie non prologue) Individual Time Trials all season (this of course includes the Olympic Gold), which is quite astonishing really.

I know Murray did brilliantly to win the Us Open and the Olympics, Farah's double was fabulous, etc. but I just don't see how anyone tops the year WIggins had. In fact, I'm not sure any British sportsman ever has topped it...

Mad for Chelsea wrote:again, I'm not sure people understand the scale of Wiggins's achievements (due to a fair few of them not being televised), so here goes again:

- first Brit to win the TdF, the biggest event in cycling
- won Gold at the Olympics (incidentally, didn't need any help from his team there)
- won three week-long races: Tour de Romandie, Paris-Nice and Dauphine Libere. Now the latter two are probably the most prestigious week-long races in cycling, and the Dauphine-TdF double is a fabulous achievement as the TdF is shortly after the Dauphine, and it's very difficult for cyclists to peak for that long.
- unbeaten in long-distance (ie non prologue) Individual Time Trials all season (this of course includes the Olympic Gold), which is quite astonishing really.

I know Murray did brilliantly to win the Us Open and the Olympics, Farah's double was fabulous, etc. but I just don't see how anyone tops the year WIggins had. In fact, I'm not sure any British sportsman ever has topped it...

Pretty much yup....agree on all points, with regard to Wiggo could the detractors please explain how his team mates helped in the individual time trials??

With cycling there is always a doubt over any performance. For that reason we must discount Wiggins.

McLaren wrote:With cycling there is always a doubt over any performance. For that reason we must discount Wiggins.

I never quite understand why people who obviously have no idea what they're talking about believe they're experts on any subject

McLaren wrote:With cycling there is always a doubt over any performance. For that reason we must discount Wiggins.

Not following what you're trying to say Mac...please explain...what doubt??

Diggers wrote:There are several events within the TDF race Gael so Wiggins helping Cav was to help him to try and get the points jersey and also stage wins themselves are highly prized.

Ok, fair enough. I'm not trying to denigrate his win. It was a fantastic achievement. Anyone who is at all interested in sport can see that. I'm just trying to explain why I would vote for Jessica Ennis instead, an athlete who competed, completed unaided 'on-course', in seven diverse athletic disciplines.

As I said before he will probably win, no doubt voted in by people just like me who know little or nothing about the sport of cycling.

There's half a dozen in there all worthy of the win and half a dozen in there for the sake of the BBC not wanting the criticism it got last year, I think Wiggins has clear daylight between him and all the rest, although had Murray also won Wimbledon it would have been very tough indeed.

Would Ennis though get quite the adulation she did if she wasn't such a looker? Winning the heptathlon is a superb achievement, but its not in the same bracket as winning the TDF, numerous week long events, undefeated time trial and Olympic Gold.

Bizarre coincidence that Jessica Ennis is on the ET home page today:

http://www.europeantour.com/rydercup/news/newsid=181543.html#ryder+cup+team+coveted+sja+award

I happen to think that her dominating performance at the Olympics this year amidst all the hype and expectation was amazing, and she's a very likeable individual to boot. However, I would rank others' sporting achievements as higher this year - which for me, probably includes an element of history (e.g. unfair as it sounds, I think I value Murray and Wiggins's years more given unprecedented achievements on top of other big wins - and in Murray's case not also just the 70-whatever years it's taken for another UK tennis grand slam winner, but doing this in the age of 2 or maybe 3 of the best players of all time).

Wiggins will win by a mile. Although I doubt if most people voting will have watched any of the TDF or any of his other victories. A few more will have watched his time trial but I bet the viewing figures for Farah or Ennis even Murrays wins would have been much higher. But he has caught the public imagination and they seem to like his slightly quirky personality and they'll vote for him because thats who they think will win. Look at the Radio Times, he's on the front page with the headline 'who will win this years SPOTY?'. Clear message IMHO.

Cycling is most certainly a big part of the public's consciousness these days in terms of SPOTY (Hoy 2008, Cavendish 2011) so it would be a massive surprise if Wiggins doesn't win it, but then again it's the same people voting who voted for Horse Face Philips and Ryan Giggs in recent years so I'm not really sure you can be 100% sure that the person most deserving will always win.

A really tough but stellar year and I'm looking forward to watching it, just hope the BBC do a better job than they have done in the last couple of years where it has been shiversomely embarassing with the likes of Jake "CBBC" Humphries in a pivotal role.

Incidently, Bookies seem to unanimously have Wiggins, Farah , Ennis and Murray in that order.

JAS wrote:

McLaren wrote:With cycling there is always a doubt over any performance. For that reason we must discount Wiggins.

Not following what you're trying to say Mac...please explain...what doubt??

Taps foot, checks watch, awaits response with great interest

He'll be googling, wiki'ing or looking for the back page of a book JAS, the guy can't do anything without some paper thin link to attempt to back it up, either that or the queue in McDonalds is flat out this morning and he's too busy flipping burgers to reply.

gaelgowfer wrote:

Diggers wrote:There are several events within the TDF race Gael so Wiggins helping Cav was to help him to try and get the points jersey and also stage wins themselves are highly prized.

Ok, fair enough. I'm not trying to denigrate his win. It was a fantastic achievement. Anyone who is at all interested in sport can see that. I'm just trying to explain why I would vote for Jessica Ennis instead, an athlete who competed, completed unaided 'on-course', in seven diverse athletic disciplines.

As I said before he will probably win, no doubt voted in by people just like me who know little or nothing about the sport of cycling.

I have no problem with Ennis.......great athlete. That said Ive never been one to call a multi eventer the greatest ahlete in the world, like say Daly Thompson liked to be known as.
Basically its my belief the talent pools are far deeper for the individual events....obviously there are a heck of a lot of sprinters and a lot of distance runners. Hardly anyone will ever attempt a ppole vault while nearly everyone will run a 100 metres at school.
There are a lot more people competing regularly in the "popular" individual events whereas there are a hard core of dedicated multi eventers
who compete regularly.
That said I love athletics full stop and think Ennis is a brilliant heptathalete who was under a lot of pressure so Id be happy to see her smiley face pick up SPOTY as well.
Its pretty much a wini win scenario this year.

Certainly a very strong year for SPOTY contenders, with at least 4 or 5 having achieved enough this year to justify them winning in an 'average' year.

MfC has already made the case for Wiggins (who would also be my pick), but I am still struggling to get my head round the idea that Andy Murray can reach a Wimbledon final (first British man to do so since the Jurassic), win an Olympic gold (beating the GOAT in the final) and then win the USO (first British man to win a slam title since the Cambrian) and still is only the 2nd favourite for SPOTY.

McIlroy? A very good year, but his SPOTY credentials are harmed because it was 'only' the USPGA, which is clearly the least high profile of the 4 Majors and gets little media coverage (also, wasn't it during the Paralympics?). If he can win either the Open or Masters, and do so in a year where we don't have so many other successes, he'll have a good chance. Anyway, he'll just have to console himself by spending an evening with Miss Wozniacki (Rory definitely punching above his weight there... )

Dummy Half, according to the majority of bookies Murray is only 4th Favourite.
I think though, it's about right as he could conceivably win Australia, WImbledon and the US Open next year, whilst Olympians will have to wait another 3 years to try again.

I like you're geological references though.

[quote="dummy_half"]Certainly a very strong year for SPOTY contenders, with at least 4 or 5 having achieved enough this year to justify them winning in an 'average' year.

MfC has already made the case for Wiggins (who would also be my pick), but I am still struggling to get my head round the idea that Andy Murray can reach a Wimbledon final (first British man to do so since the Jurassic), win an Olympic gold (beating the GOAT in the final) and then win the USO (first British man to win a slam title since the Cambrian) and still is only the 2nd favourite for SPOTY.


Why would you go for Wiggins over the points you've made for Murray?

I notice we have Wiggins ahead so I checked the odds from the bookies. They have him a heavy odds on favourite (4/11 in a 12 horse race) so not worth a flutter after all.

ScottieD18 wrote:I notice we have Wiggins ahead so I checked the odds from the bookies. They have him a heavy odds on favourite (4/11 in a 12 horse race) so not worth a flutter after all.

Amazing isn't it? Bookies know weeks in advance who's going to win. Always do. Always very suspicious of this.

I think it means more to the viewers than the sportspeople themselves. After all, Murray and McIlroy aren't even going which I respect if it means they are focussing on their schedules/training.

Whether it's Wiggins, Farah or Ennis (as it probably will be in that order) at least we'll have a worthy achievement combined with a good personality, something we haven't had for a long time.

Jas

I dont think forum rules allow me to expand on what I have already said but I think I can get away with saying at the moment I dont trust cycling.

[quote="SpacemanSpiff"]

dummy_half wrote:Certainly a very strong year for SPOTY contenders, with at least 4 or 5 having achieved enough this year to justify them winning in an 'average' year.

MfC has already made the case for Wiggins (who would also be my pick), but I am still struggling to get my head round the idea that Andy Murray can reach a Wimbledon final (first British man to do so since the Jurassic), win an Olympic gold (beating the GOAT in the final) and then win the USO (first British man to win a slam title since the Cambrian) and still is only the 2nd favourite for SPOTY.


Why would you go for Wiggins over the points you've made for Murray?

Because Wiggins won the Tour de France, becoming the first British rider to ever do so (indeed, we've not previously had a rider reach the podium - 4th places from Wiggins and Robert Millar being the best GC finishes before), plus his overall wins in Paris-Nice, Tour of Romandie and Dauphine, and winning the Olympic gold in the time trial. I've suggested elsewhere that this is very possibly the best year any British sportsman has ever had.

There is also a negative for Murray, in that he actually had a slightly below average season away from the slams - his last 4 years have seen typically 6 tournament wins with 2 being in Masters 1000 level events (the level below the slams, comparable to WGC level tournaments in golf), whereas this year he only won 3 titles (he lost iirc two MS1000 finals), it's just that two of them were very big wins.

Hmmm - extrapolating...

Wiggins can't win due to Lance Armstrong?

Therefore,

Ennis can't win because of Ben Johnson?

Murray can't win because of that time Agassi did inhale?

And all because of the appalling nautical gag...

Ainslie because, well he's two sheets to the wind all the time

McLaren wrote:Jas

I dont think forum rules allow me to expand on what I have already said but I think I can get away with saying at the moment I dont trust cycling.

Why don't you just say "In my opinion..........."

Dummy half you do have to factor in the competition when assessing a great year in sport.
Road race cycling is in a bit of a mess right now with doping as Mac referred to earlier (thats not Wiggins fault obviously) but I wouldnt say Wiggins had to beat some of the greatest cyclists in history to win his tours. Obviously Contador was in there but really how can we judge him oher than as a doper who may or may not be doping now.
Murray had to beat a couple of greats for his titles so that does add to his achievements. Wiggins was utterly dominate but was it a vintage year for competition....personally I dont think so. That would be my main caveat against him to be honest.

Whereas Diggers, as much as I like Murray and think he's had a career defining year, you could say that Him, Federer and Djokovic are so far ahead of the rest of the competition and so are effectively only playing one another when it comes to big titles. The others simply don't contest Grand Slams. Not to mention, I'm sure there will be some people who claim Nadal's absence takes some of the gloss off (even though I'm glad to see that back of that cheating little pr!ck).