Sports personality

by barragan Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

Only golfer making the list this year is Rory. The list is dominated by Olympians and Paralympians as expected. In fact, Rory is the only entry from the dozen not to have competed at London 2012. But do any of the others really deserve the annual title more than he does. Many have had great careers, but 2012 has just added the cherry on top. Murray has done something pretty special, but really is a couple of gears behind Rory...
Thoughts?...

by Skydriver Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:24 pm

Hmmm. Maybe the Curtis Cup team meets the criterion better, but the mental image of a snowball in hell springs to mind.

by super_realist Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:25 pm

Golf doesn't capture the wider imagination of the general public. I doubt McIlroy will come top three even.

by SpacemanSpiff Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:31 pm

super_realist wrote:Golf doesn't capture the wider imagination of the general public. I doubt McIlroy will come top three even.

Surely more than cycling though Super, or Horse Racing or eventing. Personally I think its rigged, like it is every year, and Wiggins is a shoe in.

by super_realist Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:35 pm

I think the one when Princess Annes daughter won was certainly rigged or at least a massive effort from the equestrian community, whilst the Ryan Giggs one was an embarrassment.

Cycling is pretty high profile these days, and I think people appreciate Wiggins achievement and also his no nonsense personality. McIlroy is just walking round knocking a ball into a hole. The general public doesn't respect that much.

by JAS Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:55 pm

Us golfers really need a wider perspective, much as I can appreciate and think McIlroys achievements were fantastic this year and much as I love golf, Supers right, unless you play the game, you don't understand the magnitude of the achievements of McIlroy this season, the non golfing public just don't get it.

How many times have you been in social conversation and started to wax lyrical about your great weekend where you shot x under your handicap, or how you splashed out of a bunker to stone dead only to watch their eyes glaze over and have to quickly change the subject to keep them awake!!!

Faldo is the only golfer in my lifetime to win it and I think that was cumulative because of achievements over a few seasons. Jacklin twice, Lyle twice, Woosnam, Clarke and McDowell have all won Majors and not come close (well ok they've had a sprinkling of runners ups but you get the drift)

by SpacemanSpiff Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:00 pm

Thats the weird thing though, I think more people would have got a buzz out of watching say Mo Farrah, Jess Ennis or Murray winning their event at the time, probably didn't even watch the TdF and yet will vote for Wiggins because he's getting all the talk.

by John Cregan Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:08 pm

SmithersJones wrote:
John Cregan wrote:
golfermartin wrote:Team of the year - the Ryder Cup winning team, surely??

The RC Team shouldn't be considered as a "Team" for the purposes of International TOTY (if such an award exists).
They aren't a team in the true sense of the meaning..........they are 12 individuals who played 1 match over 3 days...........and lets face it, they only won that match by 1 point, so it wasn't as if it was a massive win...................

Team GB shouldn't be considered as a "Team" for the purposes of International TOTY (if such an award exists).
They aren't a team in the true sense of the meaning..........they are 200+ individuals who played innumerable sports over 14 days...........and lets face it, they only came 3rd...................

by JAS Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:36 pm

SpacemanSpiff wrote:Thats the weird thing though, I think more people would have got a buzz out of watching say Mo Farrah, Jess Ennis or Murray winning their event at the time, probably didn't even watch the TdF and yet will vote for Wiggins because he's getting all the talk.

I think purely and simply timing helped raised Wiggins profile into the Stratosphere. He was basically announced as the man who had just won the worlds most gruelling race, and now he's going to follow it up by winning Olympic Gold (what was too long winded for the sound bite-ists) was that the TdF was the crowning glory on an already incredible racing season....therefore all the pressure on him...and he did what Brits have so often failed at in the past, delivered in style with the "race favourite" tag round his neck. To be fair he also has a fairly cool straightforward personality as well.

I also don't buy into the "yeah but his team mates helped him so his achievement isnt as great"... not in the time trials they didn't. In the stage races that is the culture, each team has a leader and a domestique only progresses to team lead status if he has demonstrated excellent all round form and potential winning capability and of course, even if the are paced in some sections the leaders still all have to cover the 2000 or so miles in 3 weeks including alpine and Pyreneean Climbs....whilst golfers walk about 4 miles a day and get somebody else to carry their equipment!!!

On the subject of pacing (by the domestiques for the team lead in cycling ) what's really the difference between that and the pacemaker in distance races like the 5 & 10k??

by Diggers Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:09 pm

The personality element always get poo poohed (did I really just use that expression, clearly too much baby talk at home lately) but I really dont see why. Sporting excellence is to be admired but its how the person captures the public imagination that counts.
Funnily enough though they are very different characters I like the personalities of Wiggins, Murray and Farah and Ennis for that matter. Dont really have a bad word to say about any of them. To be fair Coco seems like a nice lad as well.
I think the best thing that can be said about all of them is that they appear to be largely unchanged by fame and wealth.

by Skydriver Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:13 pm

Mind what you wish for, as the expression goes...

I was looking at the BBC website a few weeks ago when they were discussing possible contenders, and guess what - your friend the Poulterer was one of those highlighted. He's definitely got personality... but it's a bit of a marmite one as we've seen.

by Diggers Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:21 pm

Strewth Sky, I hope he never gets nominated, the thought of how much time and money Id have to spend phoning and emailling votes for everyone else doesnt bear thinking about.

by JAS Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:23 pm

Diggers wrote:The personality element always get poo poohed (did I really just use that expression, clearly too much baby talk at home lately) but I really dont see why. Sporting excellence is to be admired but its how the person captures the public imagination that counts.
Funnily enough though they are very different characters I like the personalities of Wiggins, Murray and Farah and Ennis for that matter. Dont really have a bad word to say about any of them. To be fair Coco seems like a nice lad as well.
I think the best thing that can be said about all of them is that they appear to be largely unchanged by fame and wealth.

You're quite right Diggers and I feel much the same, it'll be a damn shame 4 of them will miss out, shame they can't "bank" their achievements for the next Giggs/Zara Phillips type year.

Got to be said tho...Ennis is the only one of them I'd kiss head to toe and everywhere in between.

by super_realist Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:26 pm

I thought Ennis was tremendous but she gets far more airtime and publicity than Denise Lewis who was every bit as successful. Are people trying a bit too hard to make female role models for the sake of it?

by Diggers Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:34 pm

Lewis wasnt as good as Ennis is Super, Ennis is 5th all time and Id say will probaby end up second behind Joyner-Kersee who for me was probably on the juice. I think Id guess Lewis is closer to being late teens on the all time list. Plus Ennis is a genuine world class hurdler.
It was all just a bit harder work for Lewis, excellent athlete though she was, and she didnt go about competing with quite the same spirit as Ennis does.
I do take your point though.

by Skydriver Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:34 pm

JAS wrote:You're quite right Diggers and I feel much the same, it'll be a damn shame 4 of them will miss out, shame they can't "bank" their achievements for the next Giggs/Zara Phillips type year.

Yes, but BBC SPOTY is not really that important in the grand scheme of things (well, that's my view at least). Most if not all of those on the shortlist this year (probably plus a few others too - like Laura Trott, Jade Jones, Charlotte whats-her-name in the horsey dressage thing etc) are likely to receive official honours (or higher honours in certain cases) at some stage.

Oddly, although I don't follow football particularly, I've just remembered that I previously thought Chelsea and Di Matteo might be strong contenders in the categories of team and coach. Recent events though might well have damaged their chances. Fickle business.

by super_realist Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:37 pm

I'm a bit concerned that after the stink last year about no female nominees that they'll somehow gerrymander Ennis the win in SPOTY like when Giggs and Horsey Royal won, she does perhaps deserve it on merit, though any one of 5 do, but it might just raise a few eyebrows and just a little cynicism.

I'd be happy for Ennis, Wiggins, Murray and Farah to share it. Hard to put a fag paper between them.

by Diggers Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:42 pm

I also think Ainslie deserves a big mention. The guy is a complete force of nature, usually Id laugh at someone when they said the "they shouldnt have made me angry" comment, but he had the goods to back it up and thats just what he did.
Sure its a minority sport(but still massively popular) but its also a very tough, physical one and you really are on your own out there. He is probably the best ever at what he does and we dont produce many people you can say that about.

by SpacemanSpiff Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:49 pm

super_realist wrote:I'm a bit concerned that after the stink last year about no female nominees that they'll somehow gerrymander Ennis the win in SPOTY like when Giggs and Horsey Royal won, she does perhaps deserve it on merit, though any one of 5 do, but it might just raise a few eyebrows and just a little cynicism.

I'd be happy for Ennis, Wiggins, Murray and Farah to share it. Hard to put a fag paper between them.

Funny, he first thing Claire Balding said on 5live this morning as she announced the list was how the fact there was no women last year has been 'put right' this year. You couldn't deny most of them though.

Your right though, first time in years you'd be quite happy with any of 4 or 5.

by Diggers Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:56 pm

Becky Adlington whould have been on the list last year IMO. Didnt quite work out in 2012 for her, though two bronze medals was hardly a catastrophe.

by SetupDeterminesTheMotion Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:00 pm

No mention of Sir Chris Hoy, now winner of 6, yes 6 gold Olympic medals. Crying or Very sad

The most successful British/Scottish Olympian EVER!!!!

by **navyblueshorts** Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:01 pm

Diggers wrote:Strewth Sky, I hope he never gets nominated, the thought of how much time and money Id have to spend phoning and emailling votes for everyone else doesnt bear thinking about.

by SpacemanSpiff Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:02 pm

SetupDeterminesTheMotion wrote:No mention of Sir Chris Hoy, now winner of 6, yes 6 gold Olympic medals.

The most successful British/Scottish Olympian EVER!!!!

I know! Again, any other year he's a shoe-in!

by **navyblueshorts** Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:03 pm

super_realist wrote:I thought Ennis was tremendous but she gets far more airtime and publicity than Denise Lewis who was every bit as successful. Are people trying a bit too hard to make female role models for the sake of it?

Am I the only one who finds Denise Lewis really, really annoying (and I can't quite put my finger on why that is) ?? Good athlete though!

by SpacemanSpiff Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:03 pm

[quote="navyblueshorts"]

Diggers wrote:Strewth Sky, I hope he never gets nominated, the thought of how much time and money Id have to spend phoning and emailling votes for everyone else doesnt bear thinking about.

Now I know how that chocolate Rylan kept getting through.....

by Diggers Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:04 pm

SpacemanSpiff wrote:
SetupDeterminesTheMotion wrote:No mention of Sir Chris Hoy, now winner of 6, yes 6 gold Olympic medals.

The most successful British/Scottish Olympian EVER!!!!

I know! Again, any other year he's a shoe-in!

Its the Bran Flakes ads that put people off !
Nope, right up there and again seemingly a really nice guy.

by Diggers Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:06 pm

[quote="SpacemanSpiff"]

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:Strewth Sky, I hope he never gets nominated, the thought of how much time and money Id have to spend phoning and emailling votes for everyone else doesnt bear thinking about.

Now I know how that chocolate Rylan kept getting through.....

As it goes I quite like Rylan, he's good entertainment and I liked the banter. But Im a James Arthur man myself, he's brilliant and happened to go to my old school. (Ive never actually voted though, honest)

by **navyblueshorts** Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:06 pm

SpacemanSpiff wrote:Funny, he first thing Claire Balding said on 5live this morning as she announced the list was how the fact there was no women last year has been 'put right' this year...

What a stupid thing to say. For someone who's normally so sure-footed with her broadcasting it's pretty rubbish. Maybe she didn't mean it the way it'll be taken but still pretty daft.

by SpacemanSpiff Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:12 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
SpacemanSpiff wrote:Funny, he first thing Claire Balding said on 5live this morning as she announced the list was how the fact there was no women last year has been 'put right' this year...
What a stupid thing to say. For someone who's normally so sure-footed with her broadcasting it's pretty rubbish. Maybe she didn't mean it the way it'll be taken but still pretty daft.

.

Thats what I thought Navy. She is prone to the odd 'foot in it' moment.
I don't think you should be trying to force someone in just to satisfy gender or race quotas.

by oldshanker Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:23 pm

I voted for David Weir - 6 gold medals in 2 Paralympics, 6 time winner of London wheelchair marathon and it could well be the right time for him.

by Bob_the_Job Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:57 am

I have a bit of an issue about SPOTY - mainly with the word "Personality". It seems to me, that actually it's about rewarding achievment, in which case McIlroy and Murray should be out, as they're rewarded with obscence amounts of money already, and Chris Hoy got a knighthood so he's already been recognised. Which would lead me to give it to Ainslie.

If it's really about personality, I'd give it to either Wiggins or Simmonds as they seem to actually have a personality. I'd give Ennis Rear of the Year, along with a few other..err..rewards.

by super_realist Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:04 am

If it's about personality then give it to Kriss Akabusi.

"Personality" is just a euphemism for the person and the achievement that most captured the public imagination over a year.

Sportsperson of the year would be better as precious few sportspeople have a personality, espsecially at the very top.

by Diggers Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:47 pm

Bob_the_Job wrote:I have a bit of an issue about SPOTY - mainly with the word "Personality". It seems to me, that actually it's about rewarding achievment, in which case McIlroy and Murray should be out, as they're rewarded with obscence amounts of money already, and Chris Hoy got a knighthood so he's already been recognised. Which would lead me to give it to Ainslie.

If it's really about personality, I'd give it to either Wiggins or Simmonds as they seem to actually have a personality. I'd give Ennis Rear of the Year, along with a few other..err..rewards.

I think you are way over complicating it. It's a reward from the people to whatever sportsperson they feel deserves it , as long as they are short listed . The criteria for each vote is down to the voting individual , there are no rules as to how one should vote.

by super_realist Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:04 pm

That's what I mean Diggers,people get way too involved in thw word "personality" the actual personality of the person involved is unrelated to their achievement. Otherwise the likes of GIggs and Faldo could never have won it.

Not sure how Bob could say Murray or McIlroy didn't have a personality, but Simmonds does? Headscratch

by Diggers Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:11 pm

Not really , it varies from year to year. One year excellence may win it like say Faldo, another year personality comes into it. The point being everyone votes for different reasons and there is nothing wrong with that.

by super_realist Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:17 pm

Giggs should never had anything other than career achievement.

by goldwolf Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:21 pm

True, l mean i can't take to Wiggins for some reason, great achievement and all but i find Farah much more likable for want of a better word.

by Bob_the_Job Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:40 pm

Diggers wrote:the criteria for each vote is down to the voting individual , there are no rules as to how one should vote.

Yes - that was sort of my point. I struggle to decide who I want to vote for and why. I vacillate between voting for someone I like and someone who's achievements I respect - very often they're not the same person. So I'll vote for the cute girl.

by drive4show Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:42 pm

I think it will be Wiggo followed by Farah followed by Murray.

But the person I really REALLY want to win is David Weir. That guy is just off the scale!

by super_realist Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:42 pm

Who'll win Sports Dwarf of The Year?

by drive4show Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:45 pm

super_realist wrote:Who'll win Sports Dwarf of The Year?

No brainer, there is only one contender Whistle

by Diggers Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:56 pm

Bob_the_Job wrote:
Diggers wrote:the criteria for each vote is down to the voting individual , there are no rules as to how one should vote.

Yes - that was sort of my point. I struggle to decide who I want to vote for and why. I vacillate between voting for someone I like and someone who's achievements I respect - very often they're not the same person. So I'll vote for the cute girl.

Must have been a tough one last year Bob with no lasses, was prettiest boy the criteria ?
Seriously though it was always the housewifes choise to a degree in the past, which would explain the lack of golf success. The vote is a bit more widespread now but there is still an elemnt of the "romantic " vote. Ive no problem with that.

by ScottieD18 Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:58 am

Wiggins for me. Not only an Olympic Champion, but he won the biggest event in his sport and become the first UK winner of the Tour which is a feat that was thought to be unachievable 5 years ago.

I watched the recent series on sky which followed the sky team this year and I can't see any other UK sportsman dedicating so much of his life to his sport.

And finally, he actually has a personality.

What a sporting year. Great Olympics for Britian, Wiggins wins the Tour de France, Murrey wins a Grand Slam and Rory dominates golf on all levels.

by Diggers Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:04 pm

I think they are all dedicated. Farah leaves his wife to go off on training camps to Kenya and the States. Murray trains like a maniac and is constantly on the road. Guess that's why they are all so good, as Wiggins himself admitted dedication hadn't been his best asset in the past but he's changed that now. He certainly earned a few beers after the year he had.
I wonder what the odds are for a joint winner or if its even possible ?

by Diggers Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:45 am

All a bit late from Cooky for SPOTY but 3 tons in India as skipper is very impressive indeed. Youngest man ever to 7000 runs, most tons by an Englishman, 5 tests as skipper and 5 tons scored which is another record.
Very impressive indeed, though not the prettiest batter to watch, very effective though.

by super_realist Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:15 am

He might get CSEPOTY.

by McLaren Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:07 pm

If the personality of the nominee is at all important to this award then how can Jessica Eninis not win?

So often those that excel at the top of their sport do so by using a combination of talent and a rather unlikable arrogant personality. This is not the case with Ennis who seems to be an extremely ambitious but likeable person, not an easy balance to achieve. For years before the games she was selected as the poster child of london 2012, with all the extra pressure and limelight that entails.

She could have buckled or given of an air of frustration towards the media instead of behaving in the friendly manner she did.

To see someone who you have come to like perform under the most extreme pressure and succeed was one of the most wonderful sporting moments I have ever experienced as a spectator.

So why is there no support on here for her?

by super_realist Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:16 pm

Mo, Murray, Wiggins and the female boxer all have personalities too Mac.

by kwinigolfer Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:32 pm

I see you haven't voted for her though, Mac.

by gaelgowfer Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:26 pm

Well, for what it's worth, I've voted for Jessica Ennis. Fabulous athlete and loads of personality. Yon hurdles and then finishing the event off in style by winning the 800 metres ... absolutely thrilling.

Shame Murray won his first Grand Slam in Olympic year not to mention Wiggins winning the TdeF so, he's got no chance.

Would Wiggins be a worthy winner? Not sure about that. At the end of the day, he needed a team around him in order to make his win happen.

by super_realist Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:29 pm

gaelgowfer wrote:Well, for what it's worth, I've voted for Jessica Ennis. Fabulous athlete and loads of personality. Yon hurdles and then finishing the event off in style by winning the 800 metres ... absolutely thrilling.

Shame Murray won his first Grand Slam in Olympic year not to mention Wiggins winning the TdeF so, he's got no chance.

Would Wiggins be a worthy winner? Not sure about that. At the end of the day, he needed a team around him in order to make his win happen.

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