All Blacks Struck by Norovirus

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Morgannwg wrote:

TJ wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

TJ wrote:BTW - norovirus is a debilitating and very infectious condition that will have you projectile vomitting and pooing liquid for at least 3 days and you cannot eat or drink anything witout it triggering it again. The pooster above that was alright after a day and went sking did not have norovirus. He had a mild tummy upset.

no its 24 hours and i have had it!

i was totallyt fked- i couldnt travel when i was supposed to go abroad- but it was only 24 hours.. You p!ss out your ahole! its random!

It was not norovirus then. You had a mild tummy upset. Norovirus is both ends for around 3 days.

Really? I've had norovirus then. Absolutely terrible. My a-hole was on fire. I'm glad I didn't have to go play a game of rugby a few days later.

I find it really funny that GG moaned about the South Africans food poisoning NZ for years. Then this happens the eve before losing to England. Brilliant.

Sounds like a Johnny Cash song

Tiger, Hammer, et al,
Norovirus is generally the same around the world. The most common stomach 'bug' in countries with modern sanitation.

The symptoms reported in the link are accurate and potentially quite severe in young children or the elderly. But are also the symptoms when or if they actually appear. As with many viral infections it is entirely possible to have the virus and show little to no reaction. I think it is impossible to presume how much or little impact this had on the ABs because we know only the information which was provided to the media. I am sure they had the best treatment available.

In our sports with modern medicine, if there is any risk of dehydration (important with Norovirus) athletes get a drip going right away to mitigate the downsides to the max degree possible.

fa0019 wrote:Given the nature of Norovirus and having suffered from it and seen family members in the same household suffer from it you can make a number of assumptions.

It can be pretty nasty at its height.
Not everyone in the same household will catch it.
You recover reasonably quickly.

Now, lets take the 2nd point.

I sincerely doubt the entire squad was hit by it.. I recall reading "some members of the squad etc".

Now if Carter was hit by it and wasn't fit and 100% and Cruden was not affected.... what was Hansen doing playing Carter over Cruden???
If Messam was hit but Vito wasn't then what was Hansen doing playing him too?

Hansen's role is to win, he is the leader and the sole decision maker. He's responsible to the NZRU and the NZ public not individual players.... he has to be honest and brutal at times... that's the job.

So if players played not being fit then thats Hansens fault, its very unlikely there weren't fit players on the bench/who didn't make the 23 etc etc.

Also, if it impacted their preparation... this is the last test in 12 within 5 months... they probably wouldn't do much contact work anyhow and the players know each other in and out... they wouldn't need much work.

So if they were hit by it... I think Hansen has a lot to answer for.

Wasn't it all but two of the squad?

Considering nobody done an Alfie and shat themselves then perhaps we can assume it was all clear. I've had a few illnesses but usually get over them after a day of medication.

HammerofThunor

Not sure... but people don't suffer the same.

If you have a tour party of 40 individuals inc. coaches and staff then some may just have a mild illness whilst some will spend 24hr stuck on the bog in agony.

Could it be that the least impacted players were the 15 who played??? That would be just too much of a coincidence.

If there were fresher players then management should have made replacements... given they didn't and hardly any of it from NZ journalists I've read have mentioned it... it becomes apparent it was probably mild/over come Saturday or some people are making more of it then it really is.

Ok so it was the price of custard that made them play badly.

At least the Irish got to cite fatigue for getting humped in the last game of their tour

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Ok so it was the price of custard that made them play badly.

At least the Irish got to cite fatigue for getting humped in the last game of their tour

We didn't cite fatigue. We cited pathetic implosion under All Black constant and supreme pressure. Neither did anyone else cite fatigue (our friendly buddies in European newspapers - they just citied that New Zealand stopped fooling around with us, like a cat with a mouse -the mid game - and actually went for our jugular). When we get humped we don't blame the curry, we blame the coach and the opposition. But when we come close, in their own back yard - our friends blame the All Blacks for taking a mid series break . England shouldn't think it's all alone in the constant battle against the sneers.

As I see it almost all the ABs got sick. Then got over it.
England played well. ABs didn't. England won well.
The debate is over whether the sickness could have had any impact on the ABs performance.
Bluesman is saying it could have had an impact but England would have won anyway.
Pretty much everyone else is saying it couldn't have and to suggest it could have is to try to devalue England's win.
I wondered whether the long season and the illness would have an impact on the ABs but knew it wouldn't be worth raising it as a AB fan because of the devaluing etc call that would obviously arise.

nganboy wrote:As I see it almost all the ABs got sick. Then got over it.
England played well. ABs didn't. England won well.
The debate is over whether the sickness could have had any impact on the ABs performance.
Bluesman is saying it could have had an impact but England would have won anyway.
Pretty much everyone else is saying it couldn't have and to suggest it could have is to try to devalue England's win.
I wondered whether the long season and the illness would have an impact on the ABs but knew it wouldn't be worth raising it as a AB fan because of the devaluing etc call that would obviously arise.

+1

Having thought about it, the ABs didn't play particularly well on Saturday. But in all honesty they played worse in Brisbane in the draw vs Australia. The ABs didn't produce a 100% performance all tour, so to blame norovirus would be churlish, there's no way it was worth 17 points. The team went through the motions for half an hour vs Wales, and they gave away an intercept try vs Scotland, two things they happened to do Saturday

Through the year there have been hints of ways NZ could be attacked. Ireland, Argentina, SA and Australia all had a match where they held NZ but couldn't quite finish the job, so once again bravo England for getting it done.

Pete - i would be fairly sure that the illness would have had some effect. How much? who knows but it must have made a difference. As you say the ABs have looked vulnerable at times

We will probably never know but if my presumption is correct and that the players are now all GPS tracked for their match performances. It'd be interesting to see how the AB's stats from Sat stack up against their averages from the rest of 2012 games .

this virus thing will go on forever, not from Kiwis!! but from celts- fact is how do we quanify the fitness of any player- they all lie to get through medicals anyway!

Yeah it may have affected them- it may not- fact is the kiwis said it didnt and the way they were banging on our try line straight after half time and then again end of the game- all i know is there were still fit and hard as nails..

I've had it myself a couple of months ago and it's pretty nasty but you're ok after a couple of days. I'm not a professional athlete either so I'm sure missing a couple of days training wouldn't be too hard on them. I know it's basically some home nations fans wanted to put down the England victory a touch but if the All Blacks were suffering on Saturday I didn't see it; they were very physical kept playing til the final whistle just on the day England matched them.

I see the Thread about the 24 hour bug has now gone on longer than 24 hours itself - much longer!

Maybe this is proving something scientific?????

Its because you keep dipping your wings in a spreading it fly!

If I'm the carrier mystiroakey, you most definitely are the virus. You've attached yourself to this thread like a cute roving little intercellular devil. You've attached yourself to the host and you won't be letting go without a fight or a good dose of 24 trips per hour to the toilet.

You're what I'll call a Superbug

well got ta go millitant when blues is on a mission!

SecretFly wrote:If I'm the carrier mystiroakey, you most definitely are the virus. You've attached yourself to this thread like a cute roving little intercellular devil. You've attached yourself to the host and you won't be letting go without a fight or a good dose of 24 trips per hour to the toilet.

You're what I'll call a Superbug

What with his virus and my trigger finger, what a pair ey?

I'd like to be in a dusty street of Larado to see that gunfight...

This quote is from Justin Marshall who was in London covering the game for the NZ Dominion post.

I'm sure he's had some access to the team and staff as an ex AB.

" I don't buy the tiredness theory, and certainly not the illness one. The All Blacks just got caught out, plain and simple."

What would he know?

I think it's irrelevant. It's one of those things they got the team on the field and they competed for 80 minutes. Given that all but 2 of the squad were affected during the week it must impacted on the preparation for the test. However no ones using it as an excuse. My take it's within the normal course of events, people get sick on tours sometimes.

New Zealand actually needed the loss. No, they didn't want to lose but England actually did them a service. They needed to lose soon, to someone - not give in, or succumb to viruses but really lose. They all needed to feel that emptiness, both the players and the coaches and the fans. That's how it tastes. It isn't nice but when I looked at Carter's face - I was glad he was feeling like a humanbeing again, feeling like an ordinary rugby player who has to endure quite a number of those hollow, sick, gutted sensations in his stomach (no not that Norovirus chap )

Yep, England did better than win, the beat them. And after a few weeks, the All Blacks will actually feel refreshed that a number of pressures are off their backs so that they can focus on trying to begin a new sequence of wins with more honest intensity than was being shown in this season's AIs. Plus, I'm not really so sure about Hanson as coach.

They had become smug and felt they could do another 3rd gear on England. England had the determination, that cussed English determination to say "Don't come to our home patch and give us the 3rd gear nonsense insult"

Again sickness, tiredness, custartd prices, unusual betting aptterns, sympathy vote, or just not being bothered....it is fair to say that the all blacks were not anywhere near their best for the majority of the match, regardless of how well England played.
One thing it does show is you dont want to be chasing the game against England because they do have the ability to hurt you whne they have space. I still havent seen much that suggests a team hell bent on not giving them that space is easy to break down for them, but if they can build a lead through winning the forwards battle and kicking their goals then its going to be very hard for teams to get back in the game and they are capable of handing out some hidings.

This game was the outlier though, we need to see that more often before proclaiming them the new "white orcs on steroids" (out just in time for the releas eof the Hobbit movie series)
It was also an outlier for New Zealand. They are not suddenly a pot 2 team and Mr Mccaw is not suddenly Robshaws bag boy or Daniel Carter the new Preistland. Conrad Smith is not a defensive liability just for being turked into rushing out of the line once.

The fact that the English press are treating this like they just landed on Mars sums up the difference...the NZ press would just be moaning that once again England have failed to mount a serious challenge off the back of a result like that. For England that is still a freak result that has frankly blown peoples minds, unless they can back it up then it proves nothing. Two years ago they blew Australia off the park then gradually declined from there ( winning a 6 nations along the way). Is this any different ? We will see.

Well Justin Marshall has put a clear end to the argument!!!

What Justing Marshall knows about nutrition, virus, dehydration and any sort of physiological response I could write on the back of my jockstrap!!!!

Ive met him a few times and he is a typical pundit machine...

'I was an Allblack, regurgatated phrase, regurgatated phrase, regurgatated phraes, thats what Mccaw and Carter said, thank you'

He's not particularly well received in NZ according to freinds (not that I'd know) and is a money grabbing little **** similar to Shaun Holley!

I think ngangboy has it spot on, England may have well won without the issue of the virus, they may not have, but I am just stating that because of the issues before the game (and during the week I did predict England by 5-7 after hearing the news) and the poorest performance of the year by the AB's (IMHO I think the Brisbane game was more about Aus playing superbly and shocking the AB's (first time Ive seen a complacent AB performance)) you cannot write off a possible effect from the virus.

Any mentions of smugness, over confidence, or taking England for granted are exactly what the AB's are not about, I would blame a bug over them anyday, similar to NZ lacking passion or effort, they just don't happen!!

Oh come on bluesman... this AB tour was a sleep walk for most of it. Flourishes of intent during games and no more. In no way were they taking the opposition as seriously as they are capable of on a belligerent stream of form.

Maybe they couldn't reach their standards based on simple poor form (by their standards) but a dollop of it was disinterest in the ability or threat posed by the opposition. Complacency is an inevitable consequence of the winning habit. And they brought a good smidgin of it with them on tour.

I've heard since that both Ashton and Barritt had a bit of a sniffle, and Morgan had a touch of indigestion. So that's evens then - the IRB have confirmed the spanking stands.

Fly

Complacency on the last game of the tour? 20 games without defeat? Going the season undefeated? Have you ever been in a similar position? You are as focused as day 1 trust me!!!

Tiring bodies could account for a certain drop in focus mid game, mental fatigue after a long season combined with a huge English effort maybe, but complacency not a chance!!!

After reveiwing the game (roughly, I am still compiling stats for analysis) there tends to be 10 minutes of AB purposefull play in each half, and coincidentally they are after the restart and near the half time/final whistle. These are genral trends of adrenalin surges within the game, kick off peak adrenalin is reached a few moments in and can last up to 8-10 minutes, similar with the start of the 2nd half, but the most poniant issue is the surges directly pre half time/full time. Generally these surges last 1/3 as long as the start of games.

So from what Ive seen the AB's played to their level (or above dependant on what you beleive) at general times of adrenalin rushes to the body. Now this would help any sickness/tiredness argument (again depending on what you beleive) as adrenalin will counter the lack of oxygen/waste disposal on a cellular level for short periods, and when added to the amount of mistakes made during these periods (from an AB perspective) which I would suggest is probably slightly higher than the norm for them it could be suggested that mental fatigue which wasn't counter'd by adrenalin would highlight the physiological state of the players.

But I must add that this is all conjecture on my part, and the focus is solely on the AB's, there are a thousand variables unable to be considered.

PS does anyone know where I can get AB player seasonal stats that are pretty accurate???

Blues, don't tell me when the All Blacks can turn it on and what reasons they need to do so, please. You aren't one of them and I'm old enough to have watched them for over 30 years. I don't need lessons in All Blacks observation and ethics.

They're not purists in mind and body - they're not zen buddhists. That's just propaganda. They aren't an 'it', they are a collection of humanbeings that changes every few years; and they have human emotions.

Complacency was a factor on this tour, along with end of season fatigue, along with form going off the boil for some. They're human. But certainly some of them do come with expectations of winning relatively easily against certain standards of teams. If players have those thoughts in their heads, and how could you doubt that those thoughts don't creep in to a side soooo familiar with winning, then complacency is the word that serves the condition best..and I'll keep using it in context.

SecretFly wrote:
They're not purists in mind and body - they're not zen buddhists. That's just propaganda. They aren't an 'it', they are a collection of humanbeings that changes every few years; and they have human emotions.

Jeebus Fly next you'll be telling us Santa Claus doesn't exist! Bah Humbug!

But certainly some of them do come with expectations of winning relatively easily against certain standards of teams.

So watching them for 30 years gives you an entitlement to know what they think exactly??

When talking typical adrenalin windows I am talking rugby, not AB's in particular, I'm talking physiology, your the one spouting myths about AB's thinking they'll win games easily!!!

The AB mindset is that they expect to win every game, and is certainly a mindset every other national team has tried to mimic, ask any sports psych who are the most interesting subjects in world sport??

You don't win 20 or so on the bounce by being complacent, you don't aim for world records by being complacent. Now if you were talking focus, motivation or even stressors (all of which are legitimate terms when regarding mindset in the psych world, complacency is a product of one) I might be inclined to discuss it, but complacency isn't and shouldn't be in any international teams vocabulary, with all the staff and prep to hand these days complacency is probably as common as the ebola virus in the dressing room!!

The 30 year thing is telling YOU that I'm above being lectured to about how All Blacks do things and what is against their hallowed nature.

You continue to have your valid opinion, bluesman...you won't be hearing me telling you to shut up and listen to experience. But I have a low tolerance of being lectured to myself. Opinions shared? Yes please. Lectures of 'trust me'? Nope

They - were - complacent - during - AIs.

We ain't - gonna - agree, blues.

Who lectured???

I'm merely stating facts, your free to believe whatever you want mate

I personally am a scientoligist, what does that tell you

that bluesman will never stop will he!!Jeas

thebluesmancometh wrote:

I personally am a scientoligist, what does that tell you

You turn certain BBC Journalists into raving screaming nutters???

"and the poorest performance of the year by the AB's (IMHO I think the Brisbane game was more about Aus playing superbly and shocking the AB's (first time Ive seen a complacent AB performance))"

i love it!..

You keep on spourting this nonsense- but then on other threads trying to play the bigger man- and having a pop at others on the anti england brigade !! hehe. your bat mad pal.

you allways say this- when its france or aus its about them! when its england its the opposition playing bad! you will never change. But do yourself a favour- Give your self time before you post the different stances - you may not realise who you are if you keep this crazy talk up!- it wont end pretty!

Look most of us are arguing over wether a wheel is round because its a continous arc in a clockwise direction vs those who argue its because its counter clockwise.
Then we have Oakey whos determined to beleive the wheel is a plot by giant space lizards to discredit the anglo saxon ( and samoan immigrant) race.

Whatever the reason the all blacks were pretty sh1te by their standards.

thebluesmancometh wrote:
I personally am a scientoligist, what does that tell you

That you took Tom's side in the divorce? .....

what a brilliant post..

There is no conspricay. we beat em- we outplayed them1!!! thats it- stoptrying to make out we only won because they played rubbish.. you really need to just understand we did enough PSW.. thats all we can do. And we played brilliantly.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Look most of us are arguing over wether a wheel is round because its a continous arc in a clockwise direction vs those who argue its because its counter clockwise.
Then we have Oakey whos determined to beleive the wheel is a plot by giant space lizards to discredit the anglo saxon ( and samoan immigrant) race.

Whatever the reason the all blacks were pretty sh1te by their standards.

I like Peter. He talks sense. And with his 'sh1te reference allows this thread to renew itself back at the very beginning.

So:

Was Sh1te the defining metaphor for the AIs season? Answers on a sheet of Andrex.

yep your right lads- we can learn nothing about this game. We cant take anything from it at all.. because the kiwis were under par. Thanks for the heads up..

back to the doom and gloom!

its were we should be- amongst wales scotland and ireland.. lets keep pulling ourselves down collectively for ever!

yep your right lads- we cant learn nothing about this game. We cant take anything from it at all.. because the kiwis were under par. Thanks for the heads up..

back to the doom and gloom!

its were we should be- amongst wales scotland and ireland.. lets keep pulling ourselves down collectively for ever!

mystiroakey wrote:
its were we should be- amongst wales scotland and ireland.. lets keep pulling ourselves down collectively for ever!

No - actually officially you're with us and France. The others are a bit below us. You like France (for the cross channel booze and culture - and you like us for the craic ) Not a bad place to be really.

well yeah I go to both countries often for me golf!

but in terms of rugby we are all clearly rubbish..

SecretFly wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Look most of us are arguing over wether a wheel is round because its a continous arc in a clockwise direction vs those who argue its because its counter clockwise.
Then we have Oakey whos determined to beleive the wheel is a plot by giant space lizards to discredit the anglo saxon ( and samoan immigrant) race.

Whatever the reason the all blacks were pretty sh1te by their standards.

I like Peter. He talks sense. And with his 'sh1te reference allows this thread to renew itself back at the very beginning.

So:

Was Sh1te the defining metaphor for the AIs season? Answers on a sheet of Andrex.

England were the exciteable young puppy that ran away with the roll

So did anyone find a decent player stat website I could make comparisons off??

yeah we all looked day and night for ya- sorry dude, didnt come up with anything!

thebluesmancometh wrote:So did anyone find a decent player stat website I could make comparisons off??

TJ found a stats page on ESPN. Search his posts, i'm too lazy - should be what you're looking for Blues.

Edit:

Stats http://www.espnscrum.com/new-zealand-tour-2012/rugby/match/153977.html

I heard blues has got this norovirus- care to wipe his ass for him an all