England- Keep the replacements that performed in the next game , or...

farrell,youngs and brown are my two concerns!

I really hope they get to start. No disrespect to foden,hartley and flood. But they just dont have the same affect on england..

Flood has never been a part of a really good england for me. The only times i have felt really proud of england for a long time!!(not even the 6 nations win in 2011 did much for me) was this years 6 nations and the last two games we have played..

Farrel was a part of all of that and brown has impressed almost more than Manu tbh!(Manu was almost invisible v SA- probally not his fault but there you go!)

Keep a winning side.

Lets enjoy this win....but we need to have a little reality...we still lost to Aus and SA....

Brown for me was outstanding...he's a right aggressive guy aswell...he just doesnt give up. BUt he's not a winger...and if Wade etc is available then he may lose out. Tough choice for the FB spot....

Tom Youngs - Cant be dropped for Hartley who must win his shirt back. He was everywhere making carries..tackles..scrummed well...a pocket battleship.

Tom Wood...we knew he was good when back fit....and boy what a performance. He is Englands first choice 6 ahead of Croft. On that performance today...he is similar to Juan Smith...and that is a big compliment.

And Launchbury...well finally we have the real deal second rower...and only 21

Myst

I'd be tempted to bring back Hartley and keep T Youngs on the bench (even though I'm not Dylan's biggest fan) - better in the scrum, more consistent in the lineout and does a lot of the dirty work at the breakdown and narrow defence. Youngs should definitely be on the bench though and brought on as the game breaks up later on.

Other than that, the other conundrum is what to do when Foden is back. Agree that Mike Brown has done more than enough to keep a place in the starting XV (although whether as a winger or at his more normal FB is a decision to be made), so it's whether you keep Goode at 15 and Brown 11, replace Goode with Foden or bring Foden back on to the wing and move MB to 15.
In the short term, perhaps the solution is to keep Goode and Brown where they are and Foden on the bench. Only problem with that is we are then short of cover for 13 (then again, we have no-one in the squad that plays like Manu anyway - JJ is a much more lightweight outside centre).

So, injuries permitting, I'd like to see the following 23 at the start of England's 6Ns:

1 - Corbs
2 - Hartley
3 - Cole
4 - Parling
5 - Launchbury
6 - Wood
7 - Robshaw
8 - Morgan

9 - Youngs
10 - Farrell
11 - Brown
12 - Barritt
13 - Manu T
14 - Ashton
15 - Goode

16 - Youngs
17 - Marler
18 - A clone of Dan Cole (not convinced we have adequate cover yet)
19 - Lawes
20 - Haskell
21 - Care
22 - 12trees (because he offers cover of 10, 12, 13)
23 - Foden (back 3 cover)

It is all well and good to keep a winning team - but we are talking one win - not a huge streak. anyway the best time to tweak a team is when you are winning and when you can improve it.


I think the following are nailed on starters to face Scotland at the start of the 6Ns (barring injuries):

Corbs, Cole, Parling, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan, Barritt, Manu, Ashton.

->Now Launchbury probably should be, but the coaching panel do like Lawes.
->Ashton probably should not be, unless he shows some improved form. Frankly he has been struggling for form and confidence ever since the ban for hair pulling last December.
->Owen Farrell is probably nailed on - though unless he is playing HC games for Sarries at 10 I am still not convinced his game is rewady to take England where we want - yet.

Youngs (T) has probably exceeded expectations. He is still a novice in a specialised position. Should he show form in the HC and over christmas then Hartley should and would return.

Care/Youngs (B) are neck and neck.

Brown and Goode are competing with Foden for the 15 shirt. Brown is the most defensively secure, Goode offers the ability to stand in at first receiver and distribute, foden is the quickest and most potent attacker. For me foden is the best of them at FB - but form plays a big part. also Lancaster seems to like having a second full back on the wing - foden with more pace is the best suited for this job. Personally I would rather have a genuine winger and accept that some very good players may not be in the team.

I am not a massive expert in putting players in certain positions- however i think brown needs to be part of this team somewhere- he gains, the oppenents cant get a hand on ball when he is down and he runs- he isnt scared.. surely we need to utilse this!

ok yeah its only based over two games- but i cant think of many other players that have done this for england!

I realise that for a layman Brown is easy to rate, and sometimes what we can see isnt the be all and end all. but its all about gain and quality possesion- when brown has the ball he hasnt given it up and allways gains yards!

Pretty sure Foden, Hartley and Flood were part of a team that could beat a good Aus home and away. And good tho’ Brown was, if we keep Goode at FB we need pace on the wing.

England do best when we dont go wide early!

when we have mashed em through the centre we can then utilse the ashtons of this world!

We need players that can slip em through the centre and gain with strength. well thats me 2 cents anyway!

no need to play the SH way is there.

I like Mike brown and have defended him many times on this board when he has been slated. I just think that an on-form Foden offers more than on-form Brown or Goode.

But you know what, it is great to be debating from a position of strength - especially when you consider that Armitage, Abendannon, Miller and Tait could also fill the FB role with aplomb

I think the FB is probably the biggest conundrum at the moment. I must say I'm a huge fan of Goode, I just think he has something about him that oozes class, just looks so at ease whenever he gets the ball.

However, Foden is also a fantastic FB, and would be very hard to leave out. Brown had an excellent game against NZ but for me is behind these two in the pecking order, so harsh as it may sound he misses out for me. I'd go with Foden on the wing and keep Goode at FB.

Youngs or Hartley is another tough one, the best may be to wait and see how each performs for their club (particularly in the HC) between now and the 6N.

Love the look of Launchbury, hope he keeps his spot, and the balance of the backrow was pretty much spot on in the last couple of games, so wouldn't change that either.

Youngs/Care is another interesting choice: either suits me but I have a small preference for Youngs to start with Care off the bench.

So I'd go with

Corbs
Youngs/Hartley (depending on form)
Cole
Launchbury
Parling
Wood
Robshaw
Morgan
Youngs
Farrell
Foden
Barritt
Tuilagi
Ashton
Goode

Marler
Youngs/Hartley
Wilson? (would like a better option here)
Lawes
Haskell (covers all the back row)
Care
Burns
Joseph

Interesting that we had pretty much 5 back rowers on in the pack...as Parling and Launchbury have played in the back row many times.

FB is a huge debate. I was seriouly impressed with Brown on Saturday.

Competion for places is now getting pretty fierce and for me, the main area we don't have enough depth is front row. When Corbs and Cole are fit there's no problem but after them, I'm not sure. Marler's not there yet and who is there after that. In the 2nd row I've never been a fan of Lawes and haven't seen enough of him recently to change my mind. Feel a bit sorry for Haskell, he's getting the utility back row player tag and deserves credit for doing it well.

As everyone says, FB is where the biggest competition and the most difficult decision seems to be.

Foden has the best running game for me, best at spotting gaps, exploiting them and then bringing others on to is runs. Goode is the best at distributing and orchestrating the backline, which gives them a different dimension in attack. Brown has the power game, adding an extra bit of steal at the back and the ability to almost always beat players and make ground.

I think to some degree there is a case of horses for courses and dependency on the composition of the rest of the backline. Goode has been quality these AIs and really showed what he could add to the backline's effectiveness in the Fiji game, pulling strings in the middle of the backline or coming in at first receiver and letting the FH run the show from the middle. I do however think his opportunties to do that decreased as the quality of the opposition went up and time & space decreased. I would argue that in the NZ match for instance Brown's game and performance was probably the more useful. How the midfield partnership continues to develop and who is playing FH will also dictate which style of play is more profitable.

If I had to pick one player to be starting at 15 in a year's time I would probably back Foden, but with still a few questions over our best wingers, though I want to see lads like Wade & May tested out, I would also be relatively happy for us to continue to use one of the outstanding FBs there, and I feel the best option in that regard is Foden.


God knows what we're going to do once Miller & Watson have a few more seasons under their belt!

I dont like the idea of playing players out of position to be honest...Foden on the wing for example.

I said on another thread when it comes to the 6ns Lancaster is going to have a real headace, what with the likes of Flood, Hartley, Marler, Croft. to come back into the team... But it is nice for a change to have depth in alott of positions. Makes the players realise that one mistake,/bad performance and they will get dropped.

This England team went toe to toe with the best in the world for 50 mins and then kicked on to win in some style. Very difficult to change a winning team. What more does a player have to do?

Wasn't Farrell getting slated to hell and back not to long ago?

I do like Brown at XV

Yes he was bedford but with justification. Truth be told that was the first time I'd seen any sign that he could support a more expansive game and I'm pleased for the lad. Want to see it continue.

mystiroakey wrote:farrell,youngs and brown are my two concerns!

I really hope they get to start. No disrespect to foden,hartley and flood. But they just dont have the same affect on england..

I see Foden as competing with Goode to be honest. They're both balanced runners with excellent passing skills. Brown is a different type of player.

mystiroakey wrote:Farrel was a part of all of that and brown has impressed almost more than Manu tbh!(Manu was almost invisible v SA- probally not his fault but there you go!)

Manu was invisible in structured attacking play against SA, but the conditions were awful and he made two great breaks when he got the ball.

I wonder if having Goode playing helps Farrell. Having a second play maker must help to take the pressure off Farrell if nothing else

englandglory4ever wrote:This England team went toe to toe with the best in the world for 50 mins and then kicked on to win in some style. Very difficult to change a winning team. What more does a player have to do?

Plus toe to toe with no.2 in the world, over 160 minutes, home and away, and just one point in it (that from a crazy 'pinball' try).
I think this is no idle flash in the pan from England.

agreed! nice to hear some positive posts!!

I wont change my mind on Farrell after one game...but he has shown me that there is something there to work with.

Barriitt is another that i want to see more from offensively.

But they played well on Sat

I think one thing Lancaster has shown is that he's better than many coaches at trying unproven combinations in training and translating that into something that works on the pitch (partly because he's had no option but to do it). On that basis, it's pretty hard to second guess the 6N squad. He'll take the fit and in form players into camp, see what works, and put that on the field.