Chris Ashton - A hollow man?

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I have concerns over Ashton. He certainly doesn't merit inclusion in the Lions unless he improves massively. Ok, he scored at last - but how many times does he knock on and waste opportunities. His handling is dire. There are 2 key reasons. He stands too flat and seldom tales a ball at pace resulting in him often checking - its easier to run onto a ball to collect it than to try and catch it when starting to accelerate. Secondly, because he isnt cutting a pre planned angle at pace, he looks to see the space and takes his eyes off the ball.

His premiership form doesn't merit selection either - there are better wingers. He is a strong lump - but too predictable and too inconsistent in his handling.

I am also bloody fed up with his dive. I don't care about the arrogance label, accusations of disrespect ot even the fact it makes him look like a knob - no - one day he WILL drop it or it will be knocked from his arm in a tackle. Its stupid and unnecessary. Sod law says - if he picks for the Lions, the rare occasion fans from the other home nations may find themselves cheering him - it WILL happen and he will NEVER live it down.

I teach the kids - get that ball down quickly and solidly.

Moyne never impressed me tho as an international standard player. Ashton is loads better

I think Ashton would suit a certain gameplan, if the lions decided to go the Roberts Manu route his style would be so much more effective than Cuthbert or Visser!!!

Ashtons saving grace at present is that even though he isn't a strong defender both Visser and Cuthbert have made a Holly Wilaboobie of themselves recently!!

Not even when he finsihes as the Lions top scorer?

I'm not trying to WUM on this thread but I'd like to know whether anyone else saw Chris Ashton's red/orange boot strike / or at very least take a swing at Eben Etzebeth, when he was on the floor following his scuffle with the Youngs brothers scuffle.

I was convinced I did see something and that the TV cameras picked it up but I've not seen anything. No comments on 606, no citing, no nothing. Did anyone see anything?

Looked like he was trying to hook him back

nickj wrote:I'm not trying to WUM on this thread but I'd like to know whether anyone else saw Chris Ashton's red/orange boot strike / or at very least take a swing at Eben Etzebeth, when he was on the floor following his scuffle with the Youngs brothers scuffle.

I was convinced I did see something and that the TV cameras picked it up but I've not seen anything. No comments on 606, no citing, no nothing. Did anyone see anything?

No I missed it, there were too many bodies there to really see much.

In fact I found it hilarious that 4 or 5 english surrounded him. If they had 2 more it would at least have been a fair fight.

I know his team mates didnt really steam in to back him up did they.

I've tried to find a clip but I've not had much luck. So its a bit he said, she said...

One of the interesting things about Wade & Varndell at Wasps is how much interplay and feeding off each other there is for their tries. Varndell is the third highest premiership try scorer of all time and at the current rate looks like he could be the highest by the end of the season, but his scoring rate is noticeably better this season than any of his previous 9 seasons and I think this has a lot to with him reacting to his wing partner's clean break and defender beating ability (Wade noticeably tops the league in both).

I don't want to detract from Varndell, who himself is clearly a top poacher, but I think Ashton has the edge on him in being able to track breaking players and I'm very keen to see if he & Wade could strike up a similarily profitable understanding & partnership for England.

hawalsh wrote:One of the interesting things about Wade & Varndell at Wasps is how much interplay and feeding off each other there is for their tries. Varndell is the third highest premiership try scorer of all time and at the current rate looks like he could be the highest by the end of the season, but his scoring rate is noticeably better this season than any of his previous 9 seasons and I think this has a lot to with him reacting to his wing partner's clean break and defender beating ability (Wade noticeably tops the league in both).

I don't want to detract from Varndell, who himself is clearly a top poacher, but I think Ashton has the edge on him in being able to track breaking players and I'm very keen to see if he & Wade could strike up a similarily profitable understanding & partnership for England.

With Varndell a fair bit ahead as top try scorer this year, Wade must be thinking when is Varndell going to repay him the freebie he gave him in the Quins match on the opening day.

hawalsh wrote:One of the interesting things about Wade & Varndell at Wasps is how much interplay and feeding off each other there is for their tries. Varndell is the third highest premiership try scorer of all time and at the current rate looks like he could be the highest by the end of the season, but his scoring rate is noticeably better this season than any of his previous 9 seasons and I think this has a lot to with him reacting to his wing partner's clean break and defender beating ability (Wade noticeably tops the league in both).

I don't want to detract from Varndell, who himself is clearly a top poacher, but I think Ashton has the edge on him in being able to track breaking players and I'm very keen to see if he & Wade could strike up a similarily profitable understanding & partnership for England.

Yes, that's an interesting point. Varndell is a finisher when put into space; Wade often makes that space with his pace and side step. I reckon Lancaster leans more toward a good all rounder in terms of attack and defence.

Brown is currently occupying Varndell's position and Ashton, Wade's. Both did pretty well on Saturday. I can't see Lancaster making a change in favour of the Wasps lads at the moment.

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:

hawalsh wrote:One of the interesting things about Wade & Varndell at Wasps is how much interplay and feeding off each other there is for their tries. Varndell is the third highest premiership try scorer of all time and at the current rate looks like he could be the highest by the end of the season, but his scoring rate is noticeably better this season than any of his previous 9 seasons and I think this has a lot to with him reacting to his wing partner's clean break and defender beating ability (Wade noticeably tops the league in both).

I don't want to detract from Varndell, who himself is clearly a top poacher, but I think Ashton has the edge on him in being able to track breaking players and I'm very keen to see if he & Wade could strike up a similarily profitable understanding & partnership for England.

Yes, that's an interesting point. Varndell is a finisher when put into space; Wade often makes that space with his pace and side step. I reckon Lancaster leans more toward a good all rounder in terms of attack and defence.

Brown is currently occupying Varndell's position and Ashton, Wade's. Both did pretty well on Saturday. I can't see Lancaster making a change in favour of the Wasps lads at the moment.

Does Wade or Varndell actually have a preferred position? Wade wears 11 for Wasps but plays right, yet for England U20s and the senior side against the Barbarians and midweek teams on tour he wore 11 and played on the left. Varndell has played all over the shop, both sides for England & Saxons, right when partnered with Tuilagi at Tigers & Lemi at Wasps, left when partnered with Lloyd or Murphy at Tigers & Sackey at Wasps.

That Varndell has seemed happy wearing the 11 or 14 shirt in the past suggests to me that Wade is superstitious about the 11 shirt, meaning it was probably the position he played most growing up, but is now just as happy on either side, whereas Varndell prefers the left.

nickj wrote:I'm not trying to WUM on this thread but I'd like to know whether anyone else saw Chris Ashton's red/orange boot strike / or at very least take a swing at Eben Etzebeth, when he was on the floor following his scuffle with the Youngs brothers scuffle.

I was convinced I did see something and that the TV cameras picked it up but I've not seen anything. No comments on 606, no citing, no nothing. Did anyone see anything?

I spotted the 'swing' & commented on it on page 1 on the thread. I have found the clip on youtube but I can't post the link as I'm new.

If you want to have a nose search under 'Eben Etzebeth Gets Mauled to the Ground by England'.

I described it as a 'weasely' slap, not so much a 'swing'. Its toward the end at 2:32. Ashton comes in from the right and slaps the back of the Boks head.

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:

nickj wrote:I'm not trying to WUM on this thread but I'd like to know whether anyone else saw Chris Ashton's red/orange boot strike / or at very least take a swing at Eben Etzebeth, when he was on the floor following his scuffle with the Youngs brothers scuffle.

I was convinced I did see something and that the TV cameras picked it up but I've not seen anything. No comments on 606, no citing, no nothing. Did anyone see anything?

I spotted the 'swing' & commented on it on page 1 on the thread. I have found the clip on youtube but I can't post the link as I'm new.

If you want to have a nose search under 'Eben Etzebeth Gets Mauled to the Ground by England'.

I described it as a 'weasely' slap, not so much a 'swing'. Its toward the end at 2:32. Ashton comes in from the right and slaps the back of the Boks head.

Cheers MMMM, here's the link. LINK

Thanks Biltong

You just gotta love the AR here, Etzebeth gets a couple of hands in the face, but again "IT IS THOSE THUGS AGAIN" yeah "THOSE GUYS IN GREEN"

I find it quite hilarious to be honest.

Biltong wrote:You just gotta love the AR here, Etzebeth gets a couple of hands in the face, but again "IT IS THOSE THUGS AGAIN" yeah "THOSE GUYS IN GREEN"

I find it quite hilarious to be honest.

No, just that thug in green.

Biltong wrote:You just gotta love the AR here, Etzebeth gets a couple of hands in the face, but again "IT IS THOSE THUGS AGAIN" yeah "THOSE GUYS IN GREEN"

I find it quite hilarious to be honest.

It's gamesmanship from the opposition as far as Etzebeth is concerned, he's cut from the same cloth as Marler. They both have notoriously short fuses and it's an aspect that the other side look to exploit. Not that i agree with it though!

The longer in the tooth they get they'll sort that out whilst keeping their physicality. I'm not sure what you mean by AR, but i think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone with a reasoned opinion that call SA thugs. Every nation has had 'thuggish' players here & there, it comes with the territory of the game, but i can't see anyone beyond a WUM (or just the ignorant) calling an entire test team thugs

Yep, those Boks are all like crazed animals...

Hardly a penalty I feel, but maybe a bit daft considering the risk of eye contact.
That Etzebeth lad is a real monster & I wouldnt want to stand toe to toe with him. However I wouldnt then mince round the sides & give him a sly slap.

AlastairW wrote:

Biltong wrote:You just gotta love the AR here, Etzebeth gets a couple of hands in the face, but again "IT IS THOSE THUGS AGAIN" yeah "THOSE GUYS IN GREEN"

I find it quite hilarious to be honest.

It's gamesmanship from the opposition as far as Etzebeth is concerned, he's cut from the same cloth as Marler. They both have notoriously short fuses and it's an aspect that the other side look to exploit. Not that i agree with it though!

The longer in the tooth they get they'll sort that out whilst keeping their physicality. I'm not sure what you mean by AR, but i think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone with a reasoned opinion that call SA thugs. Every nation has had 'thuggish' players here & there, it comes with the territory of the game, but i can't see anyone beyond a WUM (or just the ignorant) calling an entire test team thugs

Yep thats true. I remember Rugby News did an article 10-15 years ago listing the top ten thugs. The bloke at the number one spot was some nutter from France. A serial gouger, I think he blinded some poor soul.

Maybe someone should post an article on the blog pointing out that the french are ALL serial gougers ...
...or maybe not eh

We wear our thug badge with pride. No use trying to fight perceptions.

Fortunately, as this is an English language site, not too many French posters. Image the fun if you had a critical mass of bilingual English / French posters all Wummaging each other on 606. Poor mods would either ban them of get fluent in French. I agree there is some brutal stuff seems to go on over the channel since the revolution.

Reminds me of the occasional outbreak of Welsh on here.
Wale population 3 million, and 200 speak Welsh, 4 of them on 606.
The rest of us don't G.a.F. what they are saying.
Your truly GregorSais.

I seem to remember the French having a decent number in said top ten. All from the South of France committing pretty vile acts against local rivals.

Not good old fashioned knuckles on chin, but boots to heads & faces, thumbs in eyes, that kind of stuff.

Down in the south, they never quite believed 'la Grande Terreur' was truly over, so carried on with the brutality.
We have sent a few English missionaries (Saint Jonny etc) to try and civilise the game a little.