IS FLOYD REALLY A COWARD? DEBUNKING THE MYTHS!

First topic message reminder :

The most insulting label that could be conffered on a boxer, in this most brutal of sports, is cowardice!
So we have Floyd Mayweather junior, multi weight champ and unbeaten, being accussed by many of being a coward. Running away from fighting Manny.
I believe that this both a simplistic and lazy accusation and does not stand up when you look at the history and DNA of this fighter, psychologically and emotionally.

Firstly a quick reflection. I have noticed that the cowardice tag in the history of boxing has at times all to easily been given to the technician rather than the brawler. So at various times boxers like Ali and Ray Leonard were accussed of being scared. In reality both were amongst the bravest out there.
Floyd's opponents have included some monstrous tasks in different ways. Tasks no less daunting than facing Manny and arguably in some cases, going into those fights, more daunting. Floyd faced down 2 monsters in their prime at LW in Corrales and Castillo. How many people would have viewed them as walks in the park after their heroic contest. Fighters with intensity and true KO potential. Floyd might have outboxed Castillo in the 2nd fight but how about the brave decision to pretty much fight the bigger punching Corrales in the pocket for a lot of the fight! I would also like to mention the Oscar fight. Now people talk a lot of rubbish in hindsight about this fight. Lets be clear the contention going into that fight was that Oscar had enough left and was fresh enough to kill Floyd. His motivation enhanced by serious trash talking and baiting by Floyd. Crucially why ignore the brave decision to fight Oscar at light middle!? No weight drained Oscar here and no catchweight in sight. why is that not brought forward as the decision making of a brave and confident fighter?
Fast forward and to the Mosley fight. The main consensus from man was that if Shane stood a chance than it was in the early rounds. Well I for one would have told Floyd to box for the first half and turn i tup later like he did against anothe fast and powerful puncher he faced, Judah. Floyd instead fights arguably the biggest puncher in that division in the pocket, unusually very static and in the centre of the ring. As a tactician i thought it was way to brave and unecessary. And he got caught!!!
Floyd gets caught flush by 2 haymaker punches in the same round!!! Well is this not the true test of a boxers bravery? I bet if i had asked many of his detractors before the fight how Floyd would react in this circumstance they would have said streotypical stuff like 'he would run like a chicken'. I have to say that 2 things were obvious , firstly the amazing powers of recovery and shockingly the decision to go into round 3 and stand his ground well within Shanes range and seek to exact retribution. High risk and brave!
So to the contention that in the negotiations for the fight with Manny he is running scared. There is nothing in what we know about Floyd that points to a fighter that is scared by anything he faces in the ring.
The drug testing I believe was a something that just developed. Floyd senior started off with it and they saw it as a chance to play some mind games. I think they were shocked as were many by Manny's initial strong reaction against the testing. I think the more they pushed the more an intital stunt started to spook them more than a little bit. Bob Arum in my opinion mismanaged this situation. Floyds biggest weakness is his arrogance and now it became about who dictates to who.
To the present situation. I think one thing Floyd's detractors are underplaying is his current state of mind. The distractions in his private life are big. Not the altercation with security guards but the events with his ex. Floyd is a dedicated father and in his way very close and focused on his kids. The altercation (caused by his own stupidity i might add) drew in his kids and has caused a major rift. This I believe is like a dagger in the heart for Floyd who himself had many unresloved issues from his childhood between his parents. He is not in the state of mind for boxing I beleieve based on those particular set of circumstances.
In conclusion, Floyd's bravey is not in question. Those who claim it is are far too simplistic in their views. Strangely I think Manny might have started to believe that Floyd is scared of him...... BIG BIG ERROR!!!

The Mighty Atom wrote:D4 shut your mouth nobody cares, you've already contradicted your twice in the space of 3/4 posts

Final warning

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:D4 shut your mouth nobody cares, you've already contradicted your twice in the space of 3/4 posts

Pacquiao is covered in tattoos therefore cannot have an irrational fear of needles, it really is very simple to understand

I'm not talking about Pacquiao this topic is not about Pacquiao, I was asked about someone that has a fear of needles.

But you did. You brought him into it when you posted those YouTube links.

We're well aware what your talking about so dont treat us like fools

If by virtue of the fact that Mayweather didn't face Cotto or Margarito makes him a coward does it then also make Pacquiao a coward for not facing Casamayor, Campbell, Marquez, J. Diaz amongst others at lightweight a coward?

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowardice

Cowardice is the perceived failure to demonstrate sufficient robustness and courage in the face of a challenge

A bit like being afraid of needles, right? Wow, a guy would have to be an incredible coward to be afraid of something like a little injection...

A needle is not a challenge, this would be an irrational fear and is a phobia.

I disagree with your postulation dear sir. Multidues of people all over the world have been subjected to the indignation of a hypodermic needles every day. It's a perfectly safe procedure. Turning it down due to a "fear" of needles is unreasonable.

What do you think irrational means?

It is ironic that you don't know what it means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobia

I am most terribly glad you posted that d4 my dear fellow.

I can tell you (and I passed my psychiatry rotation, so I do have a little background in this ) that a true phobia of needles should prevent Manny from having an essay scrawled upon his shoulder. Or chest. Or back. Or other shoulder.

He might have a phobia pertaining to blood removal, or he might suffer from vasovagal episodes which would affect him come fight time.

However - he has claimed neither of these excuses.

Lets face it - Manny ducked the "blood testing" because of pride - he wouldn't have Floyd dictate to him.

At least I hope it was pride - as the alternaitve is awful for the sport - simply too awful to contemplate

D4thincarnation wrote:Cowardice is the perceived failure to demonstrate sufficient robustness and courage in the face of a challenge.

Funny you should say this.

Manny not fighting JMM for the third time is cowardice then, by your definition?

Same with Manny not fighting Bradley at LWW.

I'm not calling Mayweather a coward, I don't know his reasoning for the choices he made, but like I said if he made those choices based on fear of challenge that he could lose, then he is.

The fact that he missed out on all the tough fights at welter strongly suggest that he is, but without knowing his mind there is no way to tell for sure.

i see D4 is back! haha this is southpaw_20 from 606 btw with a new name, had to freshen it up 8)

D4thincarnation wrote:I'm not calling Mayweather a coward, I don't know his reasoning for the choices he made, but like I said if he made those choices based on fear of challenge that he could lose, then he is.

The fact that he missed out on all the tough fights at welter strongly suggest that he is, but without knowing his mind there is no way to tell for sure.

So is Pacquiao a coward for not taking on the toughest fights at Flyweight, Bantamweight, Super Bantamweight, Lightweight, Light Welterweight and Light Middleweight?

If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander

Sergio_Martinez wrote:i see D4 is back! haha this is southpaw_20 from 606 btw with a new name, had to freshen it up 8)

Welcome Sergio_Martinez

D4thincarnation wrote:I'm not calling Mayweather a coward.

In which case we agree and there is nothing more to be said.

If Mayweather is a coward, then of course - Manny must be for not fighting JMM3, anyone other than Hatton at LWW, Juan Diaz (and everyone else) at LW. Oh - and Valero, who must have thrown out the challenge a half-dozen times.

The Mighty Atom wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:I'm not calling Mayweather a coward, I don't know his reasoning for the choices he made, but like I said if he made those choices based on fear of challenge that he could lose, then he is.

The fact that he missed out on all the tough fights at welter strongly suggest that he is, but without knowing his mind there is no way to tell for sure.

So is Pacquiao a coward for not taking on the toughest fights at Flyweight, Bantamweight, Super Bantamweight, Lightweight, Light Welterweight and Light Middleweight?

If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander

This thread is not about questioning if Pacquiao is a coward or not. You can make a thread to discuss this matter is you wish and I may comment.

This thread is about Floyd Mayweather perceived cowardness and is it a myth or not.

oxring wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:I'm not calling Mayweather a coward.

In which case we agree and there is nothing more to be said.

If Mayweather is a coward, then of course - Manny must be for not fighting JMM3, anyone other than Hatton at LWW, Juan Diaz (and everyone else) at LW. Oh - and Valero, who must have thrown out the challenge a half-dozen times.

No like I said it is the mindset, the reasons why you are making those choices.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to bring Pacquiao into the equation, seeing as though the same person now complaining about that is the one who brought Pacquiao into the discussion initially. Using Pacquiao as a benchmark for Mayweather's alleged cowardice leaves Pacquiao open for counter-comparison.

BALTIMORA wrote:I think it's perfectly reasonable to bring Pacquiao into the equation, seeing as though the same person now complaining about that is the one who brought Pacquiao into the discussion initially. Using Pacquiao as a benchmark for Mayweather's alleged cowardice leaves Pacquiao open for counter-comparison.

If Pacquiao is a coward or not it does not change if Floyd Mayweather is or not, so why bring him into this topic.

It not hard to make a thread if you wish to discuss it.

Manny has been counter-compared as an example to determine whether Floyd is a coward. You d4 agreed that Floyd isn't a coward.

Surely Mayweather didn't fight Cotto because Cotto never chased the fight and Margarito because of the money.

Why didn't Manny fight JMM3?

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:I think it's perfectly reasonable to bring Pacquiao into the equation, seeing as though the same person now complaining about that is the one who brought Pacquiao into the discussion initially. Using Pacquiao as a benchmark for Mayweather's alleged cowardice leaves Pacquiao open for counter-comparison.

If Pacquiao is a coward or not it does not change if Floyd Mayweather is or not, so why bring him into this topic.

It not hard to make a thread if you wish to discuss it.

As I've already stated, YOU brought HIM into this thread. I know it's sometimes difficult to read posts and to acknowledge your own hypocrisy, but please try to keep up. Unless you can produce hard proof of Mayweather's supposed cowardice, then it would seem your usefulness here is at an end.

Why make another thread when it can be discussed here, we don't need to clog up the board any more than it already is

The point we're making is if Mayweather is a coward then every other boxer who's ever lived is also a coward, no one ever faces the best available at all times but by facing anyone whom is considered capable of beating you it dismisses any accusations of cowardice there and then.

@liam
a prime Zab Judah? who Baldomir had just took to school? a Zab who troubled him with speed as well?!, Gatti? that wasnt a fight against a shot Gatti, Marquez? a lightweight fighting at 10 and half stone? lol, come on he's a ducker, simple as that, why wont he fight Martinez, Bradley, Pacquiao or Ortiz, everyone of them is better than the majority of fighter's he's faced and would give him an hard fight, certainly harder than Marquez did!

If you can explain when fights with Bradley, Martinez or Ortiz were viable then bring it up but as they never have been it's hardly a point to discuss.

oxring wrote:Manny has been counter-compared as an example to determine whether Floyd is a coward. You d4 agreed that Floyd isn't a coward.

Surely Mayweather didn't fight Cotto because Cotto never chased the fight and Margarito because of the money.

Why didn't Manny fight JMM3?

No, I don't agree Floyd is not a coward.

What Manny or any other boxer has done is irrelevant.


Cotto and Margarito along with Pacquiao were the biggest challenge to Mayweather, he avoided Margarito on several occasions despite being offered his biggest purse in his career. He told Margarito to his face that he will fight him but then fought Hatton and retired.


The winner out of Mosley vs Cotto and Mayweather vs Hatton were meant to meet in the summer. Floyd decided to retire.

He also never took on Williams the next biggest threat to him or even Mosley at that time. Now you can excuse 1, maybe even two but not 3/4/5.

So what was the reasons for not taking these fights?

Martinez is too big, Bradley can't shift more than about six tickets, Ortiz offered zero incentive until he beat Berto, and now offers only a little more. Pacquiao won't man up and take a blood test.

Answer the question plain and simple, using your logic is Pacquiao also a coward?

Sergio_Martinez wrote:@liam
a prime Zab Judah? who Baldomir had just took to school? a Zab who troubled him with speed as well?!, Gatti? that wasnt a fight against a shot Gatti, Marquez? a lightweight fighting at 10 and half stone? lol, come on he's a ducker, simple as that, why wont he fight Martinez, Bradley, Pacquiao or Ortiz, everyone of them is better than the majority of fighter's he's faced and would give him an hard fight, certainly harder than Marquez did!

Who has he ducked? Bradley doesn't deserve a shot. He would if he beats Khan. Ortiz doesn't deserve it either all he has done is beat a hype job in Berto. Martinez and Pac are the only 2 not happening and both him and Pac have pulled out of negotiations so who ducked who, and their have never been formal discussions for a Martinez fight. He isn't discussing fights until the legal troubles are over. Doesn't seem like ducking to me.

Davie wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:D4 shut your mouth nobody cares, you've already contradicted your twice in the space of 3/4 posts

Final warning

Final warning for what?

Unless you understand the situation don't bother getting involved

The Mighty Atom wrote:Answer the question plain and simple, using your logic is Pacquiao also a coward?

Just so we are clear, if you bring anything thing else that is of topic I won't respond to it and choose to ignore it.

I am happy to listen to your defence towards the accusation that Mayweather is a perceived to be a coward and will take it on board or counter it with my own points.

My tirade wasn't aimed at Zoomy...More at d4s relentless assault on Floyd...

Hate the word coward and one guy say's it too often on here...

It's wrong and people should be ashamed using it......

So i've proven you to be a massive hypocrite, i'll take your answer to be yes in that case

Who has he ducked? Bradley doesn't deserve a shot. He would if he beats Khan. Ortiz doesn't deserve it either all he has done is beat a hype job in Berto. Martinez and Pac are the only 2 not happening and both him and Pac have pulled out of negotiations so who ducked who, and their have never been formal discussions for a Martinez fight. He isn't discussing fights until the legal troubles are over. Doesn't seem like ducking to me.
.................
Bradley is the number 1 in the world at LWW, with or without fighting an hype job in Khan who he will stop late

deserve a shot ? you sound like the ego-maniac himself, i know boxing, dont try and baffle me with all this nonsense, if Corley, Gatti, Corrales, Judah got shots, Judah on the back of a schooling off a roadsweeper as well, then Ortiz, Bradley deserve shots, Ortiz, Bradley are about 5 levels above Gatti, Judah, Corley, Corrales, he wont fight anyone in their primes, the guy hates 50/50 fights, he's never been in one and thats not down to talent, he fought de la hoya when he could of faced Williams or Cotto at WW, and Hatton when Cotto had just beat Mosley, he's a fraud

D4thincarnation wrote:

oxring wrote:Manny has been counter-compared as an example to determine whether Floyd is a coward. You d4 agreed that Floyd isn't a coward.

Surely Mayweather didn't fight Cotto because Cotto never chased the fight and Margarito because of the money.

Why didn't Manny fight JMM3?

No, I don't agree Floyd is not a coward.

What Manny or any other boxer has done is irrelevant.


Cotto and Margarito along with Pacquiao were the biggest challenge to Mayweather, he avoided Margarito on several occasions despite being offered his biggest purse in his career. He told Margarito to his face that he will fight him but then fought Hatton and retired.


The winner out of Mosley vs Cotto and Mayweather vs Hatton were meant to meet in the summer. Floyd decided to retire.

He also never took on Williams the next biggest threat to him or even Mosley at that time. Now you can excuse 1, maybe even two but not 3/4/5.

So what was the reasons for not taking these fights?

Now I understand what I'm about to write may confuse you, so I'll try to keep the big words to a minimum.

Mayweather is renowned for seeking financial gain first and foremost. Whether rightly or wrongly, he chases the big paydays. However, that's entirely different to ducking an opponent through fear.

By your own criteria, if Mayweather is a coward for not taking the fights you listed, then surely other fighters-for EXAMPLE Pacquiao-are equally cowardly for similarly 'avoiding' opponents. Pacquiao avoided EVERYONE at lightweight after he fought Diaz. He avoided JMM since their second fight. In their two fights he has won LESS rounds than JMM.

Pacquiao also AVOIDED fighting Cotto and Margarito at the full limits of the belts he fought for.

After 'winning' the 'LMW' belt Pacquiao also AVOIDED defending the belt, instead relinquishing it in favour of fighting a previous Mayweather victim.

Now, claim as you will that Pacquiao is irrelevant, but if you will continue to accuse Mayweather of cowardice for his behaviour, then Pacquiao is guilty of being a coward because of the self same type of actions.

Serge don't bother providing facts mate...You're dealing with a nut.

Right. Thread is going to be locked.

Take a 30 minute timeout. Then come back calmer please.

The Mighty Atom wrote:

Davie wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:D4 shut your mouth nobody cares, you've already contradicted your twice in the space of 3/4 posts

Final warning

Final warning for what?

Unless you understand the situation don't bother getting involved

Final warning for abuse. Telling another member to "shut your mouth" isn't acceptable.

Neither is telling me to "not get involved". Take 24 hours to think about it