Joe Launchbury, just how good is he?

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:56 pm

I suppose this question goes out mainly to Wasps fans but all informed comments are welcome.

I don't get to watch Wasps week in week out, so all I can judge him by is the last 2 matches for England (or 3 as sub) and the ITV 4 weekly highlights package.

Well on this evidence the guy seems to be a real force. Effective in set plays, and in the loose, fantastic. Probably the best young player of any nation I've seen in the last 10 years. The Saffers pack was completely dominated and the ABs rucked off the park with Launchbury right in the middle of it all.
It was interesting that the AB players all singled him out for congratulations after the match. Forget the headline grabbing Tuilagi, magnificent though he was, the ABs knew who had really won the match, step forward the likes of Wood, Robshaw and the young Launchbury, surely a legend in the making.

BUT is he that good on a consistent basis? What has his form been like over the last couple of years in the stuttering Wasps side?

by No 7&1/2 Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:01 pm

He's a great prospect but not sure he's the best youngster in 10 years. Thought Etzebeth was better in the recent SA game and he's slightly younger. Launchbury, or a player of his style, is what England have been missing for quite a while though. He and Parling certainly seem to compliment each other.

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:04 pm

"Thought Etzebeth was better in the recent SA game"

Wow, what game were you watching? I don't think Etzebeth even got a look in, except conceding that penalty for putting his hand in Care's face, although to be fair, Care did do it first.

by Poorfour Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:05 pm

Not a regular Wasps-watcher, but IIRC he emerged from the academy last year and was one of the players who ended up playing a lot of first team rugby as a result of Wasps huge injury and retirement crisis last year. He's a former England U20 player and was discussed as a senior squad candidate all last year. So... immediate impact, consistent performance over his short career so far, has beaten the ABs.

Looks like the real deal to me.

As an aside, his U20 lock partner Charlie Matthews is at Quins (and was preferred to Launchbury by Quins at schoolboy level). Doesn't yet have quite the same impact or consistency but is a similar size and very effective in both lineout and scrum. Already named by Lancaster as one to watch. Before 2015, I wouldn't bet against seeing them paired together in the senior squad.

by Geordie Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:06 pm

He was a huge player for wasps last season when they had the nightmare form hell season with injuries etc....probably wouldnt have played as much so maybe that has helped him.

Lets not pick him up too much too soon...hes a young lad with massive potential...and actually showing that potential already...but then we all raved about Lawes when he first came about...and he's stuttered and started in his career so far.

by TJ1 Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:14 pm

Looks good but careful with the hyperbole

by No 7&1/2 Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:30 pm

Fair enough if you think that World Cup but thought Etzebeth was at least equal with his pack as you say slightly on the back foot, be it down to refs or whatever. He's also been in SA lineup for a few matches now and just sprung to mind as someone who would certainly contest being the best young player recently, let alone 10 years.

Not knocking Launchbury at all but think there's been a few players who look amazing after a few games just to stall. Ben Youngs is someone who looked far better after 3 games than 10 games.

by Morgannwg Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:45 pm

Not that good.

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:50 pm

I know what you mean 7, but Youngs was badly injured and is now coming back in to the sort of form that got him noticed. Launchbury will undoubtedly have poorer games going forward as the surprise element has gone and he'll be targeted but for me he looks like the total package. A bit of an enforcer but unlike Lawes not in showy big hits but in the hard graft at the breakdown which is where the game is won or lost. A crucial find for the global game I feel.

by Effervescing Elephant Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:06 pm

He's an Exeter boy by birth so we'll claim the plaudits for him thank you very much! Very Happy

by Hound_of_Harrow Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:20 pm

His introduction to first team rugby last season, purely because the terrible run of injuries at Wasps, gave him valuable experience. Trust me, he grafts hard for his team and will not let his fellow players down.

Too early yet to know if he can cope with the grind of the Prem, European competition and internationals. His ratings of 8 and 9 out of 10 in his two international starts, suggests that young Launchbury has the ability.

by fa0019 Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:25 pm

Etzebeth has been playing SR all season and played in near every bok test this year. Launchbury compared has only been playing premiership rugby.

The standard of rugby is stratospheres apart.

I think some people should give him some slack as he was a new cap this AIs.... he's done very well and ENG may have found Johnson's natural replacement at last.

One thing seems apparent though... those 2 players will have a lot of match ups in the future.

by Hound_of_Harrow Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:32 pm

"One thing seems apparent though... those 2 players will have a lot of match ups in the future."

Let's hope so.

by sausage1966 Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:37 pm

Speaking as a forwards coach, I believe that he is the best 21 years old I have seen for many a year. A touch of Shaw, a sprinkling of Dallaglio and the composure of Jonno.

He is young and injury is always a concern as it's been the undoing of many proteges who are over exposed.

So far, his performance has been immense against the 2 best sides in the world. I can't ask for more.

by fa0019 Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:40 pm

Amazing to read that he wasn't given a contract at Harlequins for being surplus to requirements.

Wasps didn't develop him much as a junior and got him for free. Great bit of business there.

by Geordie Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:41 pm

Parling also appears to have impressed everyone...and moved up to this level well.
I was a critic of his selection but ill hold my hand up and accept he played very well...

by Geordie Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:43 pm

fa0019 wrote:Amazing to read that he wasn't given a contract at Harlequins for being surplus to requirements.
Wasps didn't develop him much as a junior and got him for free. Great bit of business there.

How often does that happen - released by one to do very well elsewhere.

Ie Duncan Ferguson of Glasgow Rangers was released as a kid because he was too small...he of course went on to become 6'5 and a very physical British forward...

Just goes to show...

by fa0019 Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:54 pm

I think that shows the foresight of some coaches to be honest.

Although some kids do shoot up unexpectedly/develop late on etc etc.

I played rugby with a kid playing centre who was 5'8 until he was 17... and had been small all his life. Both his parents were tiny too.

Suddenly he grew 7 inches in a year totally out the blue.

For him it was near perfect as he developed a game around guile rather than brute force... then when size came to him he was able to add that string to his bow too.

by Poorfour Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:16 pm

fa0019 wrote:Amazing to read that he wasn't given a contract at Harlequins for being surplus to requirements.

Wasps didn't develop him much as a junior and got him for free. Great bit of business there.

Quins took 8 kids into the academy that year - all of whom are still at Quins and most are now in the senior squad. That year included Matthews, Wallace, Buchanan and Sam Smith, IIRC. They had to lose someone and Launchbury was at the time the least developed player. Last year at Wasps changed that.

by HammerofThunor Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:11 pm

Is it just me or does he always look sad? I've never seen him smile or look happy, I was hoping for something after the New Zealand game but didn't see him. Has anyone seen him score a try and look pleased about it? Or does he just have one of those faces (I have one, told to cheer up by complete strangers)

by Cumbrian Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:34 pm

Joe has the potential to be absolutely world class. He has all of the attributes; size, speed, engine, reading of the game and an absolutely brilliant pair of hands. He also comes across as a nice earnest lad. This I think he needs to work on! As his physical 'edge' develops it would be good to see him develop a 'ruthless' edge to his game too.

It would be good to see more depth develop in the second row. Parling Launchbury and Lawes is a good start, but due to the physical nature of the AP, we will always suffer injury withdrawals. I reckon we need at least 2-3 interchangeable players in the pack.

Going forward it would be good to get the incumbents bedded in with at least 10-15 caps and then start to look at bringing a few of the other fringe players through the Saxons. I'm thinking one or two from the likes of; Graham Kitchener, Matt Garvey, George Robson, Dave Attwood, Charlie Matthews, Tom Savage or Ed Slater. (worryingly few line-out specialists there though)

by Cumbrian Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:36 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:Is it just me or does he always look sad? I've never seen him smile or look happy, I was hoping for something after the New Zealand game but didn't see him. Has anyone seen him score a try and look pleased about it? Or does he just have one of those faces ( I have one, told to cheer up by complete strangers)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm-IF9TS-tk

thumbsup

by Hound_of_Harrow Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:10 pm

When did anyone see Jonno look happy? Even lifting the Webb Ellis after the 2003 final he was more primevil howl than a broad grin.
Wink

by MMaaxx Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:55 pm

Why do English fans (I know not all) do this?

I realize no-one else lives vicariously through their teams / players quite like the English and that there is nothing wrong with getting excited by results and talented players but surely by now lessons would've been learnt.

It's the same with cricket and football. Too soon are players called world class, future legends, best in the world etc. All that is achieved over hyping players and burdening them with expectation and added pressure or the praise goes to the player's head and they under perform.

Statements like : 'Well on this evidence the guy seems to be a real force. Effective in set plays, and in the loose, fantastic. Probably the best young player of any nation I've seen in the last 10 years. The Saffers pack was completely dominated and the ABs rucked off the park with Launchbury right in the middle of it all' just make you look silly and justify why beating England is so so so sweet.

World Cup: I question whether you even watched the Eng / SA game. Etzebeth was immense! He did exceptionally well at all the facets a lock should be judged. He won opposition lineout ball and never lost his. He tackled like a demon, held the opposition up and drove them back, made meters carrying the ball and hit a good amount of rucks. Please do yourself and us a favor and rewatch the match.

I'm not saying Llaunchbury did not have a string match but keep your panties on! He is an exciting prospect no doubt.

Saying: 'Wow, what game were you watching? I don't think Etzebeth even got a look in, except conceding that penalty for putting his hand in Care's face, although to be fair, Care did do it first' really didn't do your article any favors especially as it is utter trash. Etzebeth had his hand in Young's face actually not Care's.

Any 2012 World 15 I have read on various rugby blogs and in various newspapers have had Etzebeth in it, whether it be decided by AUS, SA, NZ etc rugby commentators.

by fa0019 Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:48 pm

I'm a province man and watch etzebeth play week in week out..... But I still think he needs a lot of work. He's a little reckless and if you watch super rugby.... He gets turned over a lot..... He's very top heavy and has quite skinny legs which makes him easy to topple. The NH didn't do their homework on him.

He isn't the finished article and for me I think their are better enforcers out there... But he's quickly making a name for himself and may get there soon. For instance I think ferris would happily go toe to toe with him.

It's the hype as always... The new bakkies..... I think etzebeth was lucky bakkies left SA before he played a competitive match vs. north Transvaal else he would have been hammered. Bakkies is still the man.

by hawalsh Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:06 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:Is it just me or does he always look sad? I've never seen him smile or look happy, I was hoping for something after the New Zealand game but didn't see him. Has anyone seen him score a try and look pleased about it? Or does he just have one of those faces (I have one, told to cheer up by complete strangers)

hawalsh wrote:Launchbury always looks really sad, and a bit like Marvin the Paranoid Android.

Spoiler:

by Hood83 Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:19 pm

fa0019 wrote:I'm a province man and watch etzebeth play week in week out..... But I still think he needs a lot of work. He's a little reckless and if you watch super rugby.... He gets turned over a lot..... He's very top heavy and has quite skinny legs which makes him easy to topple. The NH didn't do their homework on him.

He isn't the finished article and for me I think their are better enforcers out there... But he's quickly making a name for himself and may get there soon. For instance I think ferris would happily go toe to toe with him.

It's the hype as always... The new bakkies..... I think etzebeth was lucky bakkies left SA before he played a competitive match vs. north Transvaal else he would have been hammered. Bakkies is still the man.

I thought Etzebeth looks a LOT better conditioned than Launchbury, even a year younger, the guy is Ma-HOO-sive. But he looks less naturally built like a second row, like he's been locked in a gym for two years.

Seeing the bounce of of Bismarck, no way could Launchbury do that. But i don't see Launchbury as the bruiser, i think he's the ball playing all action lock. If his lineout work keeps developing I'd hope to see him paired with a real blockbuster. A Garvey or someone similar (do we have anyone else?). His start with Parling was pretty promising, but no need to go crazy about him yet.

by HammerofThunor Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:48 pm

MMaaxx wrote:Why do English fans (I know not all) do this?

Same reason some fans from every country around world do the same. Some are stupid. Some are trying to be annoying. Some are easily impressed. Some are in shock that a player actually seems decent and over egg it. Or you work for the media and to make your living destroying people you have to create an over done concept first (it makes it easy to pull someone down from somewhere you put them in the first place)

by HammerofThunor Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:49 pm

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:When did anyone see Jonno look happy? Even lifting the Webb Ellis after the 2003 final he was more primevil howl than a broad grin.

But Johnson looked peed off. Launchbury just looks sad (and I think 'sad' is the right word). Nothing wrong with it, as I said I have a similar 'default' setting on my face.

by yappysnap Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:28 pm

He has an upside down face, he's actually always smiling.

Very good lock, but then we've just had to watch the likes of deacon, Palmer, borthwick and Botha stumble through in that position so any one that can actually run, pass, catch or tackle is a revelation!

Don't dismiss Quins for dropping him. He's said himself that it could be that time afterwards which has made him the player he is.

by HammerofThunor Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:36 pm

yappysnap wrote:He has an upside down face, he's actually always smiling.

Very good lock, but then we've just had to watch the likes of deacon, Palmer, borthwick and Botha stumble through in that position so any one that can actually run, pass, catch or tackle is a revelation!

Don't dismiss Quins for dropping him. He's said himself that it could be that time afterwards which has made him the player he is.

That's what happened with Ashton. We were all amazed we actually had a winger that tracked breaks and supported a run Shocked

by Hound_of_Harrow Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:53 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
Hound_of_Harrow wrote:When did anyone see Jonno look happy? Even lifting the Webb Ellis after the 2003 final he was more primevil howl than a broad grin.

But Johnson looked peed off. Launchbury just looks sad (and I think 'sad' is the right word). Nothing wrong with it, as I said I have a similar 'default' setting on my face.

He had to spend a season or two at Worthing in N2 South after Quins released him, before Will Green (ex Wasp, and Worthing DoR) recommended him to Wasps. It's not an exciting place.

With all due respect to anyone who has retired to the Sussex coast.

by **George Carlin** Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:52 am

He's good - technically very competent and doesn't concede penalties. England could do a lot worse than starting him in the 6N.

What he actually needs is Heineken Cup and regular Jeff experience against the biggest and nastiest packs out there (and a lot of them are French). Once he's had more exposure in what it's like getting your meat and two veg trampled on at the bottom of a ruck by the best in the business (Etzebeth certainly comes from a more renowned school of hard knocks), then he'll improve exponentially.

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:00 am

MMaaxx wrote:Why do English fans (I know not all) do this?

I realize no-one else lives vicariously through their teams / players quite like the English and that there is nothing wrong with getting excited by results and talented players but surely by now lessons would've been learnt.

It's the same with cricket and football. Too soon are players called world class, future legends, best in the world etc. All that is achieved over hyping players and burdening them with expectation and added pressure or the praise goes to the player's head and they under perform.

Statements like : 'Well on this evidence the guy seems to be a real force. Effective in set plays, and in the loose, fantastic. Probably the best young player of any nation I've seen in the last 10 years. The Saffers pack was completely dominated and the ABs rucked off the park with Launchbury right in the middle of it all' just make you look silly and justify why beating England is so so so sweet.

World Cup: I question whether you even watched the Eng / SA game. Etzebeth was immense! He did exceptionally well at all the facets a lock should be judged. He won opposition lineout ball and never lost his. He tackled like a demon, held the opposition up and drove them back, made meters carrying the ball and hit a good amount of rucks. Please do yourself and us a favor and rewatch the match.

I'm not saying Llaunchbury did not have a string match but keep your panties on! He is an exciting prospect no doubt.

Saying: 'Wow, what game were you watching? I don't think Etzebeth even got a look in, except conceding that penalty for putting his hand in Care's face, although to be fair, Care did do it first' really didn't do your article any favors especially as it is utter trash. Etzebeth had his hand in Young's face actually not Care's.

Any 2012 World 15 I have read on various rugby blogs and in various newspapers have had Etzebeth in it, whether it be decided by AUS, SA, NZ etc rugby commentators.

Yeah right. So you haven't just bigged up your man like most tunnel visioned compatriots? You've just managed to contradict everything you're bleated on about Doh

by fa0019 Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:21 am

Hood83

When he gets in the right position Etzebeth is dynamite with the ball in hand but as many times as I've seen him smash through tackles I've seen him upended like many locks can do and lose possession.... you don't get to get youtube highlights of those tackles.

Nevertheless he used to be a wing until we was 17 and was a skinny kid... as you said I think he spent 3 years in the weights room as he's +120Kg easy.

WP often use a man behind him so counter his top heavy balance when he carries the ball... literally holding onto his shirt as he makes contact.

For me he's too top heavy... litke boxers, locks need to have a good core, big thighs etc which will stop them from being upended. You never saw bakkies or Jonno get upended and lose possession... because they both had amazing core strength.

by Cyril Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:22 am

I've not seen many players look as comfortable as he has in his first few tests, especially in a technical position like lock. He just seems unfazed by it all which is great to see.

He's bound to have some ups and downs along the way but I think he's going to be very special. Just when we were getting concerned about 2nd row too. Nice timing Smile

by MMaaxx Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:01 pm

WorldCup: Please reread my post.

I have not contradicted myself in anyway.

I acknowledged that your man had a good game and is an exciting prospect. I acknowledged that Etzebeth had a really solid game and in the eye of neutral rugby figures would be a starter in most 2012 World Teams.

I have not, like you, thrown around lines like: 'the best young player I have seen from any nation in the last ten years' (still makes me laugh, I suppose you said the same about Lawes a couple of seasons ago right? Or that Ashton was the world's best wing?) nor have I said that your man did not 'get a look in' during the SA/ENG match.

I realize you need to reply to my post but atleast be measured and sensible in it please. Get serious man!

by Hood83 Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:22 pm

fa0019 wrote:Hood83

When he gets in the right position Etzebeth is dynamite with the ball in hand but as many times as I've seen him smash through tackles I've seen him upended like many locks can do and lose possession.... you don't get to get youtube highlights of those tackles.

Nevertheless he used to be a wing until we was 17 and was a skinny kid... as you said I think he spent 3 years in the weights room as he's +120Kg easy.

WP often use a man behind him so counter his top heavy balance when he carries the ball... literally holding onto his shirt as he makes contact.

For me he's too top heavy... litke boxers, locks need to have a good core, big thighs etc which will stop them from being upended. You never saw bakkies or Jonno get upended and lose possession... because they both had amazing core strength.

That's interesting FA, if i'm honest i've probably seen more of a highlights reel, so the dross you mention is probably filtered out yeah. I guess that's sort of my point really, I think Launchbury does most things more naturally i.e. body positioning into contact. But Etzebeth looks more dangerous when it clicks.

I didn't think Etzebeth looked top heavy, he actually looks like his core is pretty solid. He's not as willowy as someone like Lawes, someone else who carries too upright. Fair point on Bakkies though, he seems a more naturally thick set guy.

Certainly don't think Etzebeth is the finished article, but the raw materials are there, i'm not convinced about the core stuff, he looks pretty balanced, but you've obviously seen more of him so fair enough.

by 123456789 Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:38 pm

He's nearly as good as Richie Gray was at that age

by Sponsored content