The regions

by Permian1988 Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:45 am

First topic message reminder :

Well dont the WRU & PGRB have a real job on their hands. The regions & international game are experiencing some troubles of late. For me its been coming for a little while.

The player drain to France is having a hugely detrimental effect on the quality of players left at each region. The quality of rugby being played by each of the regions is, across the board, poor with only some glimmers of hope for Welsh supporters.

The PGRB have a huge job on their hands to identify where money can be saved, how to stop the player drain and stop the decline of regional and international rugby in Wales as a result.

An independent review has taken place, assessing the regions as a business and a professional sporting establishment. It has been grim reading. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20218179

A number of options were identified, those being:

* Change season structure
* Centrally contract players
* Dispand regions & revert to clubs
* Reduce regions
* WRU takes over pro rugby
* Form collaborative management board to enforce decisions

Now the PGRB has been formed this is where the real decisions will now have to be made. For me there is only two real options; reduce the regions and centrally contract players.

The dragons have long been a region struggling to attract quality players or hold onto any of their regional stars. Fussel, Lydiate, Charteris, Tovey, Brew, Bearmen and now maybe Faletau have all sought pastures greater and new.

The dragons have struggled to make a real impact and must now be seen as a "dead weight" when it comes to pulling any for both the regional & international game. The option, as difficult as it may be, must be to dispand the region.

Players of quality throughout the academy must be identified and channeled into the remaining three regions as do existing first team squad members a la.....Celtic Warriors.

The money saved would go a way to funding central contracts and bringing back players lost to france. NWQ players have a place in the Welsh game, plugging gaps of weakness. But these players must be of top quality. Players who can help the development of young players at the regions.

Changing the season structure would help Wales, but this would require a much greater agreement between all teams in the Pro 12.

Any thoughts?

by Brendan Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:11 pm

How do the scots do their second tier, is it similar to the IRFU or WRU

by Kingshu Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:32 pm

Second Teir in Scotland, is about same as Ulster Bank All-Ireland League, I believe (not 100% sure) the Welsh Prem is a lot better than these.

by glamorganalun Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:04 pm

The only way to stand any chance in the HC is (for any player) not to play more tha two games during the AI's, ideally the first two games to maximise the recovery time. Yes we will lose some players but not the number we have at the moment, the last one or two games should be teams like Japan, Russia, Romania etc to give trials for devolping players and the guys warming the bench during the first two games.

by Kingshu Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:17 pm

Sorry reposting this as it gets lost being last comment on Page 1
PWC report looking into reducing regions, and said it wouldn't help, so Let Dragons stay.

2.30 Saturday is the Club kick off time, you support regions now, and they have a different kick off time. Regions should not be competiting with Clubs for supporters, so therefore the 2.30 sat give should be given to Clubs.

Getting rid of Italians isn't the answer, Terviso are both good enough and add sometime to the League, Zebre will hopefully get there, and at least they stop Dragons being th eWoodenspoon team at present.
By getting rid of them you won't save any travel money as the FIR already paid this to the League, it was an agreenment for their addmittance.

The solution for me, is the WRU reduce payments to the Welsh Prem, and Let the quality drop to similar to the All-Ireland League, the money saved is then redirected into the top tier of Welsh rugby (the regions).

Currently the WRU want Strong regions and a strong Welsh Prem, its reached the point they can't afford both, and the WRU will have to decide which one they want. That should be the top tier of Welsh rugby which directly feeds the Welsh national team, at the expensive of the Prem.

(note this isn't cutting grassroots rugby, its cutting the second tier to be put in top tier).

by Morgannwg Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:29 pm

whocares wrote:cheer up guys
when a region can unhearth a talent such as this 19 year old ginger fly half that played yesterdayfor the Blues , they are doing a good job. players like that dont come often and I wish we could see french clubs giving chances to youngsters at such important positions.
be careful as he's already making headlines in France so make sure he's signed on a long term contract.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Patchell-nouvelle-perle-de-cardiff/332632

damn those French vultures, back out already!

by Morgannwg Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:31 pm

Kingshu wrote:

The solution for me, is the WRU reduce payments to the Welsh Prem, and Let the quality drop to similar to the All-Ireland League, the money saved is then redirected into the top tier of Welsh rugby (the regions).

Currently the WRU want Strong regions and a strong Welsh Prem, its reached the point they can't afford both, and the WRU will have to decide which one they want. That should be the top tier of Welsh rugby which directly feeds the Welsh national team, at the expensive of the Prem.

(note this isn't cutting grassroots rugby, its cutting the second tier to be put in top tier).

Your idea is better than most of the possible solution coming from the Welsh. If that happens then I'd like to see Regional A squads come in and play in the B & I cup. The premiership can stay where it is just to keep some fans happy, but they should realise their place now.

by Stone Motif Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:40 pm

Unfortunately the 200 odd amateur clubs have more say in the administration of the game here in Wales than the four pro teams so good luck getting them to vote for any reduction in their funds. In any case, the money given to the prem teams isn't going to go very far in terms of bringing the spending power of the pro teams up to the level of their competitors. What are we talking about 1-2m extra split four ways? Not a great deal is it. We'd still have to squander it on crap Welsh players due to the participation agreement not to mention league trips to Italy etc an all.

by thebluesmancometh Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:01 pm

The premiership can stay where it is just to keep some fans happy, but they should realise their place now

And Morg highlights the problems of welsh rugby in one succinct sentence... BRAVO raspberry

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:10 pm

Aznd there comes the big question...should rugby be run by the pros for the pros or by the majority (grassroots, amatuers no hopers) for the majority?

by thebluesmancometh Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:16 pm

(grassroots, amatuers no hopers)

picard

by Morgannwg Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:39 pm

Well said PSW. Actually on to something for once in your life.

thebluesmancometh wrote:The premiership can stay where it is just to keep some fans happy, but they should realise their place now

And Morg highlights the problems of welsh rugby in one succinct sentence... BRAVO

And this is the guy vouching for 12 pro clubs.

Doh

by thebluesmancometh Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:09 am

If you think the call for a fully prof prem (with or without regional game) is somehow not workable then thats up to you, I on the other hand would look to help inclusion into the regional game by fans, and not as you put it teach them to 'know their place' on the scrap heap

by Morgannwg Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:53 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:If you think the call for a fully prof prem (with or without regional game) is somehow not workable then thats up to you, I on the other hand would look to help inclusion into the regional game by fans, and not as you put it teach them to 'know their place' on the scrap heap

So you're in full support of what Pontypridd are up to? When I said 'their place' well their place is feeder/development status. Teams like Neath and Pontypridd need to realise this. I see no problem with stating this.

by Intotouch Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:40 pm

samuraidragon wrote:
Intotouch wrote:
Casartelli wrote:Letting the best players go to France is the way forward. Tougher league, much better coaching and it gives more youngsters a chance to play here. The time has come to revert to semi-pro in Wales anyway. Works for Samoa and Argentina.

We won't, of course. The WRU will hold this new talking-shop thing up as the solution to all problems, for about 3-4 seasons anyway when everyone will have forgotten about it and it gets cancelled. The regions will all be on the wrong end of 50 point hammerings by the Italians but Wales will win a GS every 3 years so nobody will care.

The group of optimists who think the regions will be okay when the youngsters come through/Henson comes back/the new fanbase turns up will be down to single figures.

You should read the comments in Equipe yesterday after Connacht beat Biarritz. There are six sides in the top 14 that are worse than Biarritz. In France many fans look at the pro 12 as the strongest league whose teams always look strong and how can they compete with such concentration of quality players in each side.

Personally I don't see that the top six sides in France are better than the top six in our own league. Will players really improve because a lot of the players they play against will be speaking French? If so why don't French clubs dominate the last four or win the h cup each year. Players in Wales have been regularly playing against the actual strongest teams in Europe in the pro 12.

Going to France will however mean that your players will have less practice time with the national team and will be under pressure to play every week irrespective of injuries. How is this better for Welsh rugby?

Huh? You honestly don't believe the top 6 in France are better than the top 6 in the Rabo? Really? The Scarlets are number two in the Rabo. Toulouse are number two in the Top 14. How many times have the Scarelts even got out of the HC groups? How many times have Toulosue NOT got out of the groups?

You selectively compare Toulouse and the Scarlets. How about Castres, Montpellier and Grenoble? How do you think they compare to Ulster or Munster say? The top three in the top 14 right now are super but look at the others. So yes I absolutely stand by what I said and that the top 6 in each are comparable.

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