The Greatest: Round 1: Shortlist for the 6 shirt (VOTING ENDS 23/12/12)

The blindside thread.

Please post below picking ONE and one only from this list of tackle monsters:

Rocky Elsom (Australia), Ian Kirkpatrick, Jerry Collins, Graham Mourie, Dave Gallaher, Mark Shaw, Alan Whetton (New Zealand), Francois Pienaar, Juan Smith, Hennie Muller, Andre Venter (South Africa), Serge Betsen, Jean Prat, Sebastian Chabal (France), Dai Morris (Wales), Richard Hill, Mike Teague (England), John Jeffrey (Scotland)

Top three go through to the vote for the teamsheet.

Will update the OP to make up for any glaring omissions.

Players above in no particular order.

Notes:

1. Rules here:
https://www.606v2.com/t38622-the-greatest-introduction-the-rules

2. Previous threads here:
https://www.606v2.com/t38631-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-1-shirt#1745446

https://www.606v2.com/t38632-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-2-shirt#1745455

https://www.606v2.com/t38633-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-3-shirt#1745464

https://www.606v2.com/t38634-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-4-5-shirts

3. Please note that voting for the shortlist will end at midnight on Sunday 23 December.

Juan Smith, no doubt in my mind.

Richard Hill

Hill, though I'd like to see Dusautoir and Betsen as options here

At his best I think Hill could have taken on all the other nominees at the same time.

Juan Smith also brilliant though. Albeit a distant second.

Francois Pienaar, not just a great player but a great man too.

For me, between Hill and Kirkpatrick.

Sorry - just to confirm - how are we factoring in the South Africans' total disregard for the traditions of the rugby numbering system here?

The whole 6 or 7 thing?

Richard Hill

Casartelli wrote:Sorry - just to confirm - how are we factoring in the South Africans' total disregard for the traditions of the rugby numbering system here?

The whole 6 or 7 thing?

Decided to quite literally go by shirt number - hence where Dusautoir currently pops up.

Stephen Ferris.

This one's really really tough.

On players I've seen a decent amount of, Juan Smith (since I presume Michael Jones is in the 7s list )

Richard Hill.

So good he was probably secretly Scottish.

Richard Hill

As Michael Jones isn't open on two lists, I'll give my vote to Richard Hill

Richard Hill for me although this is a tough one.

Juan Smith was seriously good and if it was my team I might try and fit Michael Jones at 6 and McCaw at 7...

Richard Hill

Woodward would drop Dillaglio, he'd drop Back now and again... but he never would drop Hill. Worth his weight in gold.

Richard Hill by a country mile

Sir Richard Hill

Michael Jones and John Graham tho they played left/right NOT 6,7,8
.Jerry Collins has to be there or there abouts as has Juan Smith and Richard Hill.Dave Gallaher was a Rover/Wing forward in the 2-3-2 if they come into it Cliff Porter.

Juan Smith

Richard Hill.

Richard Hill - wrote the book on good blindside

Richard Hill

Pienaar

Richard Hill.

This is difficult enough now to debate the best 6. One of the most hotly contested positions in rugby and I think THE most contested. Even with Kaino in Japan... for now.

Juan Smith is my favourite Bok player and I think rugby is a little bit poorer without him playing. That's how much I rate the guy. Jerry Collins, Dusatoir or Burger are some of my favourite players as they are so destructive particularly on defence despite the jersey numbers. But with his longevity in the game and consistency at the highest level, I have to give it to Richard Hill.

Richard Hill

Hill from that list. Michael Jones for me would play 6 in my greatest XV.

Richard Hill

John Jeffrey. Just indestructable and always first to the breakdown

How can Duss be there, wears 6 but doesn't do the same job??? Surely we should be looking at blindsides not numbers.

Hill by a country mile of that list.

Hill.

Possibly my favourite player ever, though from reading his autobiography I now know more than enough about tendon transplants.

Richard Hill

I'd argue that, with the current debate about whether you need a true OS and BS flanker, we might be better off with a flanker thread with everyone picking 2, esp with the differing French and SA approaches and the rise f 6.5s and McCaw and Jones both being 7s (though both capable of playing 6) and the use of L/R flankers in some eras. There is a difference between 6 and 7 but it has been fluid across the eras and even now the difference is whatever a side decides to make it

Who else but John Jeffrey - the White Shark

From this selection probably Hill, though as others have said I'd be very tempted to play Jones & McCaw together.

Excuse my ignorance as I did not get the chance to watch Richard Hill (I got into rugby a bit later) but what made him so good? I saw his last game for the Saracens where he played very well despite a bad leg, but I am wondering just what he was like in his prime. It seems his work at the breakdown was his main strength but he must have been really something after reading some of the comments here.

Hill

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Excuse my ignorance as I did not get the chance to watch Richard Hill (I got into rugby a bit later) but what made him so good? I saw his last game for the Saracens where he played very well despite a bad leg, but I am wondering just what he was like in his prime. It seems his work at the breakdown was his main strength but he must have been really something after reading some of the comments here.

It took a while for people to appreciate Hill, but what marked him out was his work rate and, especially, his decision making. His error count and missed tackle count were both phenomenally low. He was the player that Woodward kept in the 2003 RWC squad for 4-5 weeks of the tournament in the hope that he'd be fit, ans the only player Woodward never dropped. If you asked anyone who played with or against him, they'd probably say he's the first name on their all-time teamsheet. In his prime, he really was that good.

Hill

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Excuse my ignorance as I did not get the chance to watch Richard Hill (I got into rugby a bit later) but what made him so good? I saw his last game for the Saracens where he played very well despite a bad leg, but I am wondering just what he was like in his prime. It seems his work at the breakdown was his main strength but he must have been really something after reading some of the comments here.

He was a fantastic player, from age grade upwards he was the one we wanted to see on the team sheet during county games and the one i hated seeing when i played againt him. The game you are thinking of was where he nearly single legged beat Wales on his own(the O's then had international players from 1-15). His unseen work was the reason dayglo and the other got the praise, if not for him England would not have been as good. He was that important and good why else was he taken out with a cheep shot by Oz in the second test

I recall Zinzan Brooke saying in 2003 after the QF scrappy win vs. Wales that if Hill played the next 2 games then ENG would win their SF and whoever they faced in the final (whether it was to be AUS or NZ). If he was still injured ENG would lose at some point.

Quite a testimony.

I might have thought George Smith might have made the list, sure he played a lot of left and right with waugh, but he was pretty tidy when you consider he played a lot of blindside in a not so often dominant pack.

Richard Hill, still remember a cheaky try after literally picking the oppos pocket in a maul.

Richard Hill

yappysnap wrote:Richard Hill, still remember a cheaky try after literally picking the oppos pocket in a maul.

That was against Wales, wasn't it? He nicks the ball, spins round and goes in under the posts? Can't find a YouTube clip, but it really sums up how alive to opportunities he was.

Juan Smith

Richard Hill (special mention for Dai "Shadow" Morris)

Richard Hill

Juan Smith is also a wonderful player and as many said in an ideal world I'd have 6.Jones 7.McCaw in my side but from that list Hill was a master of everything a flanker is meant to do.