Scotland squad for the 6 Nations

First topic message reminder :

Scotland squad for training camp in Glasgow (January 20-23) ahead of RBS 6 Nations Championship:

Backs: Peter Murchie*, Stuart Hogg, Sean Maitland*, Tommy Seymour*, Sean Lamont (all Glasgow Warriors), Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby), Max Evans (Castres), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Dunbar* Peter Horne*, Duncan Weir, Ruaridh Jackson (all Glasgow Warriors), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Henry Pyrgos, Sean Kennedy* (both Glasgow Warriors) and Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby).

Forwards: Alasdair Dickinson (Sale Sharks), Ryan Grant, Dougie Hall, Pat MacArthur* (all Glasgow Warriors), Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors), Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby), Moray Low, Alastair Kellock (both Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Sale Sharks), Jim Hamilton (Gloucester), Grant Gilchrist* (Edinburgh Rugby), Kelly Brown (Saracens), Robert Harley, Ryan Wilson* (both Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby), Richie Vernon (Sale Sharks), Chris Fusaro* (Glasgow Warriors).

* = Uncapped.

Invited to be with the squad as they recover from injury: Chris Cusiter, John Barclay and Jon Welsh (all Glasgow Warriors) Nick De Luca and Ross Rennie (both Edinburgh Rugby) and Scott Lawson (London Irish).

Note to editors: Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) will miss the camp for family reasons as his wife is expecting their second child.

Just a thought but I'd like to see Muldowney of Exeter in the 6N's squad. He seems to be on cracking form.

Imperialbigdave wrote:Dean Ryan could be a very good appointment, however hes been out of coaching for about 3 or 4 seasons now, so who knows.

I cant help but feel dissapointed that George Graham isnt in any of the new coaching systems announced today. As much as Peter Wright is a loudmouth erse, hes right in saying that theres a glass ceiling for coaches in this country. Grahams dragged Gala straight from 2nd divisioners to prem1 title contenders, scottish cup winners, and pretty much the only scottish team to be giving a good account of themselves in the B&I cup. He gets a team playing greater than the sum of its parts, is well known for not suffering fools in his squad, and doesnt stand for egos.

The problem is he is not ready for a top job yet as he is unproven / inexperienced at the pro level. If he is serious about getting a top job in Scotland he needs pro rugby experience and needs to go and get it. Or he can stay in his comfort zone in the amateur game

Chalmers is in the same position

After watching todays match I'd select near to none of Edinburgh for the starting XV. Dougie Fife is the only one who's really looked remotely good, but even then all fraught with errors. I think we need more players to move to France/Premiership tbh

Neily

Visser for his finishing? He has to remember how to tackle tho

laidlaw at 10 ( best of a bad bunch unless Weir gets some gametime)

Tonks?

Denton?

a guy literally got between Visser's legs today after being stationary on the floor, I dunno if we can afford that kind of liability right now. Tonks looked a bit lost today but I guess he was up against Kearny, Laidlaw's passing looked pretty poor, kind of like Cusiter off form, aimed straight at the head. Denton worked hard but no cigar today, I think its time to have a Glasgow core with some Edinburgh players. Dougie Fife looks exciting though

Jackson got MoM at Scotstoun tonight gents - thats 3 in a row he has done the biz. Kicked everthing from everywhere and anywhere too. Hogg looked a very classy fb - Tonks is unlucky to be in such a woeful team tbh. Visser a luxury we cannot afford. `Maitland and Seymour could start with Hoggy - personally I hope not as I beginning not to give a rat's erse about Scotland such is their utter crapness and really only care about the Warriors. So play Tonks Visser,Jones Ford Laidlaw Denton and all the other losers and let Glasgow prosper !

My revised lineup would be:

1. Grant
2. McArthur/Hall (Hall is playing quite well at the moment)
3. Low
4. Gray
5. Kellock/Hamilton
6. Brown
7. Roddy Grant (one of the few highlights from a shoddy Edinburgh side off the bench)
8. Beattie

9. Pyrgos
10. Jackson

11. Seymour
12. Scott
13. Grove
14. Maitland
15. Tonks/Hogg

Bench
16. McArthur/Hall
17. Reid
18. Murray
19. Hamilton/Kellock
20. Wilson
21. Laidlaw
22. Visser
23. Tonks/Hogg

Its not the paciest side in the world but I think to stand a chance of winning any of the 6Ns games we have to play to our strengths. Roddy Grant and Brown should cause sufficient trouble at the breakdown, especially at their best. Our breakdown may not be the fastest with this side but we can sure as hell cause them problems.

I don't think I'd start Visser just now (never thought I'd say that!!) but his defence just isn't good enough and he needs a shock to get him to work on it. Plus having Maitland now means we're not as reliant on Visser anymore.

I'd go for Lamont with Maitland - don't want 2 wingers making their debut at Twickenham.

I think Denton deserves his spot - he was everywhere tonight and was very strong defencivley off the back of the scrum. Showed great pace on several occasions to scrag a Leinster player who had broken through.

Denton is an X-factor player and has hopefully learned to not get complacent again. I think he will be a stand out player for Scotland.

Not sure where the negative comments about Tonks has come from - he had another stand out performance tonight and, a knock on into touch aside, was solid as a rock and put in some great kicks.

I think Wilson currently has the better all round game compared to Denton, and in effect acts like a third flanker at the breakdown too. Denton was improved today but I don't think he'd make my 23 purely because Beattie and Wilson are currently on better form. To be honest I think Denton would benefit from moving clubs like Beattie did.

The problem is that a lot of these glasgow guys are uncapped - there's no way he can have loads of uncapped players going to the lions den that is Twickenham.

To that end there isn't much to chose between Denton, Beattie and Wilson form wise so I'd probably go for Denton because of his recent experience in the 6N and AIs.

Similarly on the wings we can't have Seymour and Maitland both making their debuts at the same time at twickers.

Tonks was pretty steady tonight and will surely be in the mix for the 6N, Hogg also seems to be returning to form so a good selection choice. Visser looked terrible tonight, his defence simply has to improve (but I'm sure it can be).
I thought Denton was very good in defence but didn't look so impressive going forward.
Laidlaw wasn't great at scrumhalf tonight, Reddan bossed him a bit at scrum time.
Nel looks to be a good 'project player' in the making, despite posts to the contrary I thought he made Healy look pretty ordinary as the game went on tonight (what odds on Ryan Grant becoming Lions test No1?).
I've also watched the Worcester/Leicester game tonight and Euan Murray looked busy and Alex Grove looks a very good support player who would combine with Maitland very well.
Oh, and we shouldn't really fear Toby Flood and Ben Youngs in the Calcutta Cup from what I've seen of them tonight.

fair point!

I tend to get carried away with excitement by good potential, but that's the Scottish fan's way I guess! If I were a coach I'd probably have ended up capping every possible Scottish player, the Caledonian Lievremont :P

It's not always a bad approach, did you know Jason Robinson's mum was from Dundee (true), we could have done with him and apparently even the English hero that is Will Carling was Scottish qualified?

Final point on Denton is that we need to remember he was a stand out player in last 6n, had a stormer against nz (running over McCaw) and was solid against SA - he's not done much to warrant him losing his spot based on what he does for Scotland.

I agree Denton has been great for Scotland so far but I think he should be considered at 6 instead of 8 currently in a straight choice between him and Kelly Brown. At present the No8 choices should be Beattie and Wilson. If we have all four involved either in the starting 15 or on the bench we are in pretty good shape, and that's not including whoever plays at 7 ( Harley, Rennie?).

Totally agree Macknocked-on! Safe option would probably be to bring Beattie on at 8 vs Italy and go with 6.Brown 7. ? 8. Denton vs England. But If I were coach I would have him starting at 8 vs England.

I am nearly 100% convinced that Laidlaw should not be scrum half for Scotland. His last two performances have been really dire. Prygos and Blair should be two scrum halves. Saying that he may be an option at 10 along with Heathcote or Weir (didn't see Glasgow game, did Jackson play well?).

I would still have Visser at 11 despite his awful defence tonight, I just think he needs to get some decent ball which has been lacking at Edinburgh lately. He got ball a couple of times vs Glasgow and looked very dangerous. He needs to sort his defence out though.

Tonks looked very good once again, definite starter at 15 if you ask me. He has very good hands too.

But how is Visser going to sort his defence out between now and the start of the 6N's? There are two H Cup games coming up, one of which is away to Sarries. Is he going to see any quality ball to show his attacking prowess? Doubtful. Is he is going to start defending solidly? He hasnt looked interested for most of the season, so why start now?

I think if he starts at Twickers his poor defence will be brutally exposed by an England team who are well led and coached and have a decent ability to put width on the ball.

Also looks like he was concussed when he left the field against Leinster. If so then he will have a mandatory rest for 3 or is it 4 weeks.

If he misses the next few games then selection for Twickenham would be a massive gamble.

Concussion isn't a mandatory 3 weeks any more - doctors do tests and decide if they are fit to play - usually a couple of weeks at most

h didn't look that bad anyway

Jacko had a man of the match performance in terms of passing and from the tee! Made all his conversions and penalties and was the heart of the Warriors attack, even with G-dog outside him! Henry Pyrgos has to be in pole position to start against England, once again he was brilliant last night. Big worry with Moray Low going off with an ankle injury and I did see him in the tunnel with it well iced up! Ryan Grant had another sterling performance as did Rob Harley and I van assure you that when Josh Strauss is Scotland qualified he will be the first name on the sheet. Unbeatable last night!

I'm starting to feel optimistic about Scotland in this six nations therefore I've come up with a list of things that will have to happen if we're to have a chance:

Our scrum holds
Richie Gray doesn't get injured and Hamilton doesn't attack anyone
Johnson picks the three on form back rows in the right position
Johnson picks Heathcote or Weir / Jackson learns to goalkick again
Johnson picks real centres who can pass
Visser learns to defend and Hogg gets his form back

All of which isn't impossible and the chances are that across the whole tournament each will happen but being Scotland none of it will happen at once consistently.

TJ wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:Dean Ryan could be a very good appointment, however hes been out of coaching for about 3 or 4 seasons now, so who knows.

I cant help but feel dissapointed that George Graham isnt in any of the new coaching systems announced today. As much as Peter Wright is a loudmouth erse, hes right in saying that theres a glass ceiling for coaches in this country. Grahams dragged Gala straight from 2nd divisioners to prem1 title contenders, scottish cup winners, and pretty much the only scottish team to be giving a good account of themselves in the B&I cup. He gets a team playing greater than the sum of its parts, is well known for not suffering fools in his squad, and doesnt stand for egos.

The problem is he is not ready for a top job yet as he is unproven / inexperienced at the pro level. If he is serious about getting a top job in Scotland he needs pro rugby experience and needs to go and get it. Or he can stay in his comfort zone in the amateur game

Chalmers is in the same position

Firstly, Graham does have pro experience, hes just been out of the loop for a wee while.

But even so, its the classic case of you need a job to get experience and experience to get a job. I really dont read too much into the supposed lack of experience, as look how many coaches with years of pro experience are utter guff *cough* Bradley, Back. Id rather a coach who is known to be a good senior coach, regardless of his professional experience than a coach with a ton of professional experience who has a CV of failure.

For them to get the Scotland job would mean jumping a two levels tho. I would like to see them coach a pro team first - at least as assistant. This might mean going to England or elsewhere.

,

regardless of his professional experience than a coach with a ton of professional experience who has a CV of failure

.

I agree - but I would rather have someone with experience and with success. there are some out there - but no scots ( bar Dixon? )

RDW_Scotland wrote:The problem is that a lot of these glasgow guys are uncapped - there's no way he can have loads of uncapped players going to the lions den that is Twickenham.

.

If they are good enough? last year for the calcutta cup Robinson bottled playing the young guys who were in form and we lost a game we could have an dshould have won with te right selection. if you are good enough you are old enough and experienced enough even with zero caps

123456789 wrote:I'm starting to feel optimistic about Scotland in this six nations therefore I've come up with a list of things that will have to happen if we're to have a chance:

Our scrum holds
Richie Gray doesn't get injured and Hamilton doesn't attack anyone
Johnson picks the three on form back rows in the right position
Johnson picks Heathcote or Weir / Jackson learns to goalkick again
Johnson picks real centres who can pass
Visser learns to defend and Hogg gets his form back

All of which isn't impossible and the chances are that across the whole tournament each will happen but being Scotland none of it will happen at once consistently.

Hogg and Jackson were excellent on Friday - Hogg now needs to learn when to pass outside him though !

TJ wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:The problem is that a lot of these glasgow guys are uncapped - there's no way he can have loads of uncapped players going to the lions den that is Twickenham.

.

If they are good enough? last year for the calcutta cup Robinson bottled playing the young guys who were in form and we lost a game we could have an dshould have won with te right selection. if you are good enough you are old enough and experienced enough even with zero caps

Spot on TJ - this is exactly why Robinson was binned (iykwim) - by not picking on form regardless of the opposition. We will not win at Twickenham but we should be able to compete across the field.

When is the squad announced?

Anyone see the BoD interview where he said de Luca should be in the running as a Scottish lion? Said he was one of the trickiest centres he's played against! Couldn't get much more of an endorsement!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Anyone see the BoD interview where he said de Luca should be in the running as a Scottish lion? Said he was one of the trickiest centres he's played against! Couldn't get much more of an endorsement!

Concussion can take a long time to recover from.

MacKnocked-on wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Anyone see the BoD interview where he said de Luca should be in the running as a Scottish lion? Said he was one of the trickiest centres he's played against! Couldn't get much more of an endorsement!

Concussion can take a long time to recover from.

Well based on the christmas period fixtures my Scotland team that Johnson should pick :

1. Grant
2. MacArthur / Ford (don't really mind good impact sub either way)
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Gilchrist
6. Brown
7. Grant (bit of a problem area here. Any word on Rennie's injury?)
8. Beattie / Denton (don't really mind good impact sub either way)

9. Laidlaw
10. Jackson
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Hogg
14. Maitland
15. Tonks

16. Ford / MacArthur
17. Low
18. Still struggling for an alternative loosie
19. Hamilton
20. Beattie / Denton
21. Blair
22. S. Lamont
23. Struggling to think Fife? Horne? Dunbar?

I think the 1872 matches showed everyone that Glasgow are the main team in Scotland now. Jackson was superb in both games and deserves the 10 shirt back for Scotland. I would shift Laidlaw to 9 since it seems he is more comfortable there.

What strikes me is that we have a powerful 15 but I think we'll struggle for a replacement loosie and full back.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Well based on the christmas period fixtures my Scotland team that Johnson should pick :

1. Grant
2. MacArthur / Ford (don't really mind good impact sub either way)
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Gilchrist
6. Brown
7. Grant (bit of a problem area here. Any word on Rennie's injury?)
8. Beattie / Denton (don't really mind good impact sub either way)

9. Laidlaw
10. Jackson
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Hogg
14. Maitland
15. Tonks

16. Ford / MacArthur
17. Low
18. Still struggling for an alternative loosie
19. Hamilton
20. Beattie / Denton
21. Blair
22. S. Lamont
23. Struggling to think Fife? Horne? Dunbar?

I think the 1872 matches showed everyone that Glasgow are the main team in Scotland now. Jackson was superb in both games and deserves the 10 shirt back for Scotland. I would shift Laidlaw to 9 since it seems he is more comfortable there.

What strikes me is that we have a powerful 15 but I think we'll struggle for a replacement loosie and full back.

Not sure Laidlaw has done enough to start at 10 and at 9 he looked poor (not played there enough recently) - so should be dropped

Sorry to jump in on the thread, but if any Scottish lads want to champion (ie write up a blurb) on Gavin Hastings he's being voted on in the Greatest of all time thread https://www.606v2.com/t39114-v2-goat-round-1-group-1.

PM MtotheC if you fancy the job

Fair enough risky... but for who? Pyrgos played pretty well against South Africa but his passing can be a bit hit or miss... litteraly.

We don't really have the depth of talent at 9 as we used to and I think Laidlaw is the best option.

We can criticise his performance recently at 9 but bear in mind his set pieces were mullered by the Weagies and Leinster.

I really don't think we can go into the 6N with Jackson as our goal kicker - he has been better recently but definitely isn't top class like Laidlaw. We're not going to win games by scoring loads of tries so need an accurate goal kicker.

Mike Blair has retired from international rugby

http://www.scotlandrugbyteam.org/content/view/3255/2/

not wholly relevant but interesting nonetheless http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/rugby-craig-chalmers-may-leave-scotland-for-pro-chance-1-2721081

I'm sticking with my team from before the weekend:

1.Grant 2.MacArthur 3.Murray 4.Gray 5.Swinson 6.Brown (c) 7.Harley 8.Beattie 9.Pyrgos 10.Laidlaw 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Lamont 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

16.Reid 17.Ford 18.Low 19.Hamilton 20.Denton 21.Jackson 22.Grove 23.Tonks

I'm very tempted to switch Jackson and Laidlaw, but I've actually liked what I've seen of Laidlaw at 10 in the last 15 minutes of the last couple of games, and I prefer his play at 10 to his play at 9. His goal kicking is more reliable than Jackson's, which is very important at international level. Farrell (or Burns) won't miss much.

Pyrgos is performing the best at 9 at present, and therefore we need to give him a chance. He also showed against SA in the AIs that he doesn't fear the big stage. It's too soon for Cusiter.

Everyone's of the opinion that Hogg and Tonks will be the fullback options in the 6N but I've just been reading the Wasps posts and a lot of people there seem to think that Southwell is worth a recall, what does anyone think about that? The thinking is that he's pretty solid in defence so could compensate for Visser. I'd prefer Hogg or somebody with more attacking threat (Maitland?) at 15 myself but he actually has a better try per game ratio for Scotland than Lamont surprisingly.

OP: pick Dean Ryan to help.

I think Tonks should be 15 but would not be upset If southwell were to have a game at fullback. I just think Tonks is phenomenal under high balls which will come in very handy against teams like Wales where they like to keep the ball in touch when kicking down field.

Shame about Blair retiring but fair play to him, he was a fantastic player and will go down as one of Scotland's finest scrum halves.

Well I am very happy to hear Jackson had a good game. Hopefully he can keep this good form going.

So to me it appears as though pyrgos and Jackson will be starting with probably heathcote and Laidlaw on bench? Not bad if you ask me although I really hope Laidlaw can play better at 9 if he is to be positioned there. How is Lawson playing at moment?

Why are people still fawning over Weir? Jackson was excellent in his last appearances. He would start in my team no doubt.

123456789 wrote:I'm starting to feel optimistic about Scotland in this six nations therefore I've come up with a list of things that will have to happen if we're to have a chance:

Our scrum holds
Richie Gray doesn't get injured and Hamilton doesn't attack anyone
Johnson picks the three on form back rows in the right position
Johnson picks Heathcote or Weir / Jackson learns to goalkick again
Johnson picks real centres who can pass
Visser learns to defend and Hogg gets his form back

All of which isn't impossible and the chances are that across the whole tournament each will happen but being Scotland none of it will happen at once consistently.

I highly doubt Hamilton will not attack anyone. I can picture him scrapping with Hartley already
Good points though, hope Johnson has taken them into consideration.

radge - i quite like Jackson when on form, especially his passing. just wish he could be more consistent. Perhaps he'll take his recent good form for glasgow into 6 nations, cranking it up a notch?

MacKnocked-on wrote:Everyone's of the opinion that Hogg and Tonks will be the fullback options in the 6N but I've just been reading the Wasps posts and a lot of people there seem to think that Southwell is worth a recall, what does anyone think about that? The thinking is that he's pretty solid in defence so could compensate for Visser. I'd prefer Hogg or somebody with more attacking threat (Maitland?) at 15 myself but he actually has a better try per game ratio for Scotland than Lamont surprisingly.

Not Shug, please no!

As much as Southwell is playing well we really don't need to be bringing in a 32 year old fullback at this point when we have younger guys playing well.

As for Jackson, I know he's being playing well but I'm yet to be convinced - I just think he's lacking something and, although has done well at Rabbo level, may be a disaster for Scotland.

Happy to be proved wrong though!

I think Weir is the best Scottish fly-half for a very long time, yet for some reason he does not get picked by Glasgow or Scotland, he can pass, tackle and run as well as being a better kicker than most first choice international fly halves.
Not that I have much against Jackson, he's not a bad player but he's not great either he's just very very average, in all honesty I think he was picked because at the time Dan Parks was off form and unpopular and Robinson picked Jackson because he wasn't Dan Parks. Laidlaw is a very good player but his lack of size makes him a defensive liability and although his tackling isn't that bad, playing as a centre outside a short fly-half there is always a question in the back of your mind as to whether you should cover the fly-half thus leaving gaps out wide. As a scrum-half his rugby brain could still be utilised. I know very little about Tom Heathcote therefore I cannot comment however I think he should be included because after his disastrous start which was 99% not his fault it could be detrimental to his confidence to drop him.

As for Southwell, I see no advantage in dropping a 20 year old in Hogg who can kick as well as Southwell and is miles better in attack for Southwell who offers no threat and won't make the next world cup. Tonks has played well for Edinburgh and deserves his chance. Whilst I don't like saying a player shouldn't ever be picked I do think he should far down the pecking order as should the other players from his generation who offered glimpses but never truly delivered; that includes De Luca, Morrison, Hall, Walker, and maybe the likes of Sean Lamont, Al Kellock and Rory Lamont who never gave less than 100% and put their bodies on the line.

Out of interest when are Barclay and Rennie be back? If they are out at the start of the six nations Fusaro should be a definite starter.

Southwell is and has been playing very well for Wasps indeed, and I'm very much for selecting players on form regardless of age, however both Hogg and Tonks are on pretty decent form, and accordingly I'd go with the younger options.

Southwell's form with Stade and Wasps has shown the player he could have been for Scotland (to be fair, he wasn't all bad). For some odd reason he now runs with the ball in hand, shows decent pace and doesn't hoof the ball away all the time. Just goes to show that Scotland's game plan in his day was hopeless at bringing the best out of the players available.

Southwell - dear god nooooooooooooooooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

123456789 wrote:I think Weir is the best Scottish fly-half for a very long time, yet for some reason he does not get picked by Glasgow or Scotland, he can pass, tackle and run as well as being a better kicker than most first choice international fly halves.
Not that I have much against Jackson, he's not a bad player but he's not great either he's just very very average, in all honesty I think he was picked because at the time Dan Parks was off form and unpopular and Robinson picked Jackson because he wasn't Dan Parks. Laidlaw is a very good player but his lack of size makes him a defensive liability and although his tackling isn't that bad, playing as a centre outside a short fly-half there is always a question in the back of your mind as to whether you should cover the fly-half thus leaving gaps out wide. As a scrum-half his rugby brain could still be utilised. I know very little about Tom Heathcote therefore I cannot comment however I think he should be included because after his disastrous start which was 99% not his fault it could be detrimental to his confidence to drop him.

As for Southwell, I see no advantage in dropping a 20 year old in Hogg who can kick as well as Southwell and is miles better in attack for Southwell who offers no threat and won't make the next world cup. Tonks has played well for Edinburgh and deserves his chance. Whilst I don't like saying a player shouldn't ever be picked I do think he should far down the pecking order as should the other players from his generation who offered glimpses but never truly delivered; that includes De Luca, Morrison, Hall,

Walker, and maybe the likes of Sean Lamont, Al Kellock and Rory Lamont who never gave less than 100% and put their bodies on the line.

Out of interest when are Barclay and Rennie be back? If they are out at the start of the six nations Fusaro should be a definite starter.

Because Weir has been injured for the last wee while !

Heathcote played the second half for Bath yesterday, he couldn't do much in an attacking sense as the Bath pack were getting dominated by Wasps by that point but he certainly puts himself about in defence.