Scotland squad for the 6 Nations

First topic message reminder :

Scotland squad for training camp in Glasgow (January 20-23) ahead of RBS 6 Nations Championship:

Backs: Peter Murchie*, Stuart Hogg, Sean Maitland*, Tommy Seymour*, Sean Lamont (all Glasgow Warriors), Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby), Max Evans (Castres), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Dunbar* Peter Horne*, Duncan Weir, Ruaridh Jackson (all Glasgow Warriors), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Henry Pyrgos, Sean Kennedy* (both Glasgow Warriors) and Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby).

Forwards: Alasdair Dickinson (Sale Sharks), Ryan Grant, Dougie Hall, Pat MacArthur* (all Glasgow Warriors), Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors), Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby), Moray Low, Alastair Kellock (both Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Sale Sharks), Jim Hamilton (Gloucester), Grant Gilchrist* (Edinburgh Rugby), Kelly Brown (Saracens), Robert Harley, Ryan Wilson* (both Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby), Richie Vernon (Sale Sharks), Chris Fusaro* (Glasgow Warriors).

* = Uncapped.

Invited to be with the squad as they recover from injury: Chris Cusiter, John Barclay and Jon Welsh (all Glasgow Warriors) Nick De Luca and Ross Rennie (both Edinburgh Rugby) and Scott Lawson (London Irish).

Note to editors: Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) will miss the camp for family reasons as his wife is expecting their second child.

Get S Holley to help.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Why are people still fawning over Weir? Jackson was excellent in his last appearances. He would start in my team no doubt.

because he appear to be a very good player with a calm head at a young age. He masterminded the demolition of a England Saxons side containing many internationals by a Scottish A side containing almost none. And it was a stuffing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KoIJOkOGK4

Because a "great kick" for Jackson is a kick Weir can do in his sleep, apart from passing Weir is far superior in all aspects of the game despite Jackson's one last performance.

Just watched the Scotland A game again on Youtube, great stuff from the likes of Hogg and I noticed with interest that Scott and Grove was the centre partnership in that game. Got to be worth a shot in the Calcutta Cup I would say.
All interestingly I noticed that Bradley was the coach that game, funny how fortunes can change in rugby so quickly, he should go back to whatever approach he had a year ago.

TJ wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Why are people still fawning over Weir? Jackson was excellent in his last appearances. He would start in my team no doubt.

because he appear to be a very good player with a calm head at a young age. He masterminded the demolition of a England Saxons side containing many internationals by a Scottish A side containing almost none. And it was a stuffing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KoIJOkOGK4

Watching that and seeing the size of Scott and Hogg a year ago, is it any wonder both seem to have lost a few yards of pace?

My team:

1. Grant (picks himself)
2. MacArthur (Coming back nicely, and Ford really does need dropped to give him a kick up the bum!)
3. Murray, or Low. Haven't seen Murray playing lately so depends on form.
4. Gray (Still a top class player)
5. Hamilton (Gives grunt, particularly at scrum time. What I'd give to bring Hines out of retirement...)
6. Brown (Is a 6, plays at 6)
7. Grant (Short of options, Harley also considered but I'd prefer a specialist 7)
8. Denton if on form. If not, Beattie starts and Wilson to bench.
9. Pyrgos (Looks the sharpest of our scrummies, gives a bit of zip).
10. Heathcote (Looks good for Bath, defends well, kicks well).
11. Seymour (Good player, I feel he is underrated by some. Keeping Viss on the bench should give him something to think about. Both players playing for their place.)
12. Scott (Our best 12, give him licence to pass and run angles.)
13. Dunbar if fit and on form. Grove otherwise. (Solid defensively, and Dunbar could form a good partnership with Scott. Grove would be a solid alternative.)
14. Maitland (Class. Need I say any more.)
15. Hogg (In my mind, he's a fullback, not a 13. Again, tell him and Tonks to play for their place.)

16. Ford (strong in the loose, but MUST sort his throwing out.)
17. Who else is out there? Is Welsh still crocked?
18.Low/Murray
19. Kellock/Swinson/Gilchrist
20. Beattie (would love to see him come off the bench and scatter the English like skittles!)
21. Laidlaw (Covers 9 and 10)
22. Visser (Option for adding penetration and fresh pace as the game opens up)
23. Tonks (Very strong, unlucky not to be starting. Hogg is the incumbent at 15 and gets to start, but must be under no illusions - this guy is breathing right down his neck.)

Wow, a very inexperienced team perhaps, particularly in the backs. Not thought too much about captaincy, I guess it'd be Brown or Hamilton. For leadership amongst the backs we hit difficulties, with Hogg and Scott being amongst the experienced, having been in the senior team less than a year. But then if you're good enough, you're old enough. Plenty of firepower on the bench too, I just feel that some of the Edinburgh players need to start from the bench to give them a kick up the bum. Plus, if they can only be bothered playing from 60mins then let them start then

Would like to have Harley in the back row but couldn't bring myself to have him at 6, with Grant at 7. Way too much ginger! And with Harley at 7 we'd have three blindsides in the back row...

I know my team has plenty of limitations, but go easy, it's my first attempt!

As an aside, anyone know how Mackenzie is doing at Sale?

Nice looking team HighlandScot! In fact I think its exactly the same as mine apart from 15. & 11. like your logic behind decisions, hopefully Johnson will make the right decision and field a team like yours!

Posted this elsewhere, but here's my team for the England game, would probably make some changes for the other matches. Oh and HighlandScot, I like the look of your team and would be happy to see it at somepoint in the tournament.

1. Grant - Honestly think he could be an outside bet for the lions tour if he continues in the form he's in. (very outside at the moment granted)
2. Ford - Picked more in hope that he finds his form than anything else. Wouldn't be upset if MacArtur got a shout though
3. Murray - Still in my view the best option.
4. Gray
5. Hamilton - Kellock is putting a real case for selection though. As is Gilchrist for that matter, but might be the wrong game for him to start.
6. Brown - Wouldn't have him as captain though
7. Grant - with our two first choice 7's out, I guess it's between Grant, Harley (did well enough against Edinburgh) and Fusuro (apologies for the spelling). I went with Grant because he's probably the most experienced out of the lot of them.
8. Denton/Beattie - Can't decide at the moment. Beattie's playing well and Denton's so so at club level but seems to step up come international time. Would be happy with either.
9. Laidlaw - He's been moved to scrum half for a reason, I can only imagine its to play this role for Scotland
10. Jackson - Deserves to be picked on merit, which makes a nice change from being picked because he's not Parks. Lets see him play when he's in form.
11. Visser - I don't know on this one. I think he should play on the basis he can score tries and is dangerous with ball in hand, however, he's terrible in defence.
12. Scott - If used correctly (i.e. not a crash ball player) then I think he's very good, if used to crash into the opposition (as Robbo was getting him to do) then he's not great.
13. Grove - Been doing well recently, could be worth a shot. Failing that S.Lamont for his physicality.
14. Maitland - Worth a shot
15. Hogg/Tonks - Hogg is in posession of the jersey so give him a chance, but Tonks has been putting his hat in the ring with his performances. Wouldn't be upset with either.

I wouldn't be averse to playing Laidlaw at 9, he just hasn't set the heather alight playing there just yet. I'm sure it'll come, because he does have good vision and a nice pass on him, but it'll take a wee bit of time I imagine.

At 10 I'd like to see more of Jackson too, but he is too inconsistent with the boot. Playing him then ties Johnson's hands with regards to needing Laidlaw from the start to kick. Can Hogg do place kicking? If I recall correctly, Southwell used to take long penalties too, didn't he?

I wish Weir could get some more game time; he has the game and needs to be developed. That means playing at the top level week in, week out. Not sure how that's going to happen though.

If the Messiah gets any game-time this century, I'd like to see him turn out for Scotland A. Then again, if he's not getting any pro game time for Glasgow then I'd like him to bugger off back to France and play under 23, try and break into the Clermont team.

If Gray has a get out clause from Sale then I'd like to see him at an Irish club or in France. I hear Leinster may be in the market for a lock, and a stint in France could really be the making of him.

Oh, and got to add that I'd tell the team I want them to play their natural game. Scott is not a crash ball player. If I want crash ball in the centres I'd have Morrison and Lamont... Heads up rugby all round please, get the lads together beforehand and get hem properly bonded as a team, 100% trust in one another so that all players play and enjoy it, and play for the whole team. The fun of rugby is finding gaps in the opposition defence, gettin through them, running in open field and scoring tries. Let's see some of that. Of course that's not to say that kicking penalties would be a no-no, better 3 points in the hand that 7 points in the bush, so to speak. We need to play with some intelligence and realise when to take a 3 pointer and when to push on for a try. Asking a bit much now?

I like your team apart from I'm not sure about Lamont, Spoons. Visser and Maitland are very good finishers, no doubt about it, but they are not the best at creating chances and need good ball from the centres, which won't happen if Schlong is bashing up the centre with little regard for passing. Mind you (thinking aloud here), his defence is solid which we'll need against Tuilagi and co. In attack he is pretty good at getting up with breaks (nothing on Visser but hey), so when Maitland jinks his way through Lamont could get up to take the ball and dive over the line. When Visser and Maitland come off the wing looking for work, Lamont would be a good option to temporarily slot into the wing position. In normal play he can give the England defence something to think about by using him as a dummy runner who can also be givent he ball, so can't completely be ignored. Could work, especially with Beattie playing as he plays almost like an extra back. Hmm, decisions.

The Messiah is in the Scotland under 20s squad.

It is a decent squad actually - a lot of last years players are still in it but a year older and wiser (and bigger!)

On the 9 debate, there's a dreadful piece from Chris Paterson on the Beeb website.

Apparently there's a "depth of talent in that position" according to CP.

Laidlaw is playing 9 consistently and well. As is Pyrgos, and apparently Sean Kennedy (and other "young players") is nipping at his heels.

Now, I have a great respect for CP as a player, and up until I read that articles, as a pundit. I had hoped that he could rid us of Andy Nicol. However, this piece is really poor journalism.

We have NO depth at 9 whatsoever. Laidlaw has played 2/3 games at 9 in 2/3 years, and to say he's played well is a real stretch. After Laidlaw at 9 there are no other credible options qualified to play for Scotland in the Edinburgh squad, which is a dreadful situation.

At Glasgow we have Cusiter (always injured) and Pyrgos. Pyrgos to me is our best bet, but he is very raw, relatively unproven and his passing is inconsistent to say the least. Kennedy is a child and entirely unproven. He is not an option at all in terms of international rugby. Not sure who else he may be referring to when he talks about young players (other than Kennedy) nipping at Pyrgos' heels. McConnell?? Has barely played pro rugby, and of what I've seen, needs a lot more work. In any case, Matawalu is clearly ahead of all these guys who are supposedly "nipping" at Pyrgos' heels. In fact, I personally think Matawalu is Glasgow's best scrum half.

That leaves Rory Lawson playing in D2, and MacMillan who isn't really playing at all. And Colin Gregor, exiled as a 7's specialist.

I completely disagree with CP. England have Youngs, Care, Simpson, Wigglesworth and Dickson. That is a depth of talent. CP must not fall into the Andy Nicol trap of feeling that he must defend his mates, and tell the world how great Scottish players are. We do have good players, and real depth in certain positions (e.g. openside and number 8), but scrum half is not one, and trying to pretend otherwise merely serves to undermine him as a journalist.

I agree FES. England have strength in depth at 9, France have strength at 9 - Scotland don't!

Options are someone who has played 4 games at 9 having spent the last 18 months playing 10, and someone only breaking into international rugby....then lots of injured and retired people!

RDW_Scotland wrote:The Messiah is in the Scotland under 20s squad.

Perhaps he should try his hand at scrum half, just to get some proper rugby.....

...and to think, quite a few on here genuinely thought he should have toured with Scotland last summer

Agree FES & RDW.

it's not looking great. if either Laidlaw or Prygos get injured what then? I think Lawson would have to be the only option due to experience. Perhaps one of the young fellas should play vs Italy to see how they cope?

Is Hidalgo Clyne not a Scrummy?

According to the website he is. There’s a funny article on the Edinbrugh website with picture of SH-C and some young prop – SH-C is as metrosexual as you can get and the prop is a total grunter who looks like is maw would be ashamed of him!

Samuel Hidalgo-Clyne (born 4 August 1993, Granada, Spain) is a Scottish rugby union player who is contracted to Edinburgh Rugby in the RaboDirect Pro12, as well as the Scotland 7s team. He can play either half-back position, but is recognized firstly as a fly-half. He is also a model and is currently in the running to be Scotland on Sunday's most eligible bachelor. - wiki

Explains why he doesn't tackle then - 'don't touch my face!!'

The whole weir thing is frustrating

So many say he is so much better that Jacko but isn't getting the gme time!!!

Why? Is it because he is not better (or not seen as being better) by the coaches???

In my humble opinion, Edinburgh have signed a non Scottish Qualified 10 who is also (in my opinion) keek! Surely the SRU can decide that in the interests of Scottish rugby, Wier should go over to edinburgh to gat game time at 10 and Jacko can stay at the Weedge.

Or is that common sense?

RDW_Scotland wrote:According to the website he is. There’s a funny article on the Edinbrugh website with picture of SH-C and some young prop – SH-C is as metrosexual as you can get and the prop is a total grunter who looks like is maw would be ashamed of him!

I actually sprayed coffee out of my mouth like a whale sprays water out of its blow hole reading that!

See for yourself!

http://edinburghrugby.org/news/edinburgh-news/4613-cringle-a-hidalgo-clyne-get-u20s-call

There's Alex Black at Edinburgh isn't there? Seems to have been totally forgotten about, not even sure if he plays any club rugby. It's old hat but very worrying nonetheless, he and the other srumhalf Kennedy at Glasgow not getting game time and standoffs Leonard and Hunter being ignored at Edinburgh. At least four Scottish halfbacks who won't develop in the current system. I watched Kennedy play really well for Glasgow in a Rabo game a few months ago, real pity.

highland_scot wrote:I like your team apart from I'm not sure about Lamont, Spoons. Visser and Maitland are very good finishers, no doubt about it, but they are not the best at creating chances and need good ball from the centres, which won't happen if Schlong is bashing up the centre with little regard for passing. Mind you (thinking aloud here), his defence is solid which we'll need against Tuilagi and co. In attack he is pretty good at getting up with breaks (nothing on Visser but hey), so when Maitland jinks his way through Lamont could get up to take the ball and dive over the line. When Visser and Maitland come off the wing looking for work, Lamont would be a good option to temporarily slot into the wing position. In normal play he can give the England defence something to think about by using him as a dummy runner who can also be givent he ball, so can't completely be ignored. Could work, especially with Beattie playing as he plays almost like an extra back. Hmm, decisions.

Don't get me wrong Lamont isn't my first choice for 13 (Grove being my first choice), I was just struggling to think of anyone else fit and in form who could play there. Plus as you rightly call out his physicality could be useful against England.

In terms of other options for 13:
De Luca -injured,
Ansbro - injured,
Dunbar - isn't in form (playing out of position?),
Bennett - hasn't played,
Evans -gash and doesn't play,
Fife - massively inexperienced and only played a handful of pro games.
Hogg - Hasn't really worked that well for him at 13 so far, might come good but isn't ready for International level at 13 yet.
Lamont has been playing and has done reasonably well (aside from continuing his love of not passing) so figure he could offer something. But I'd like to see Grove given a chance, as he's been doing well and he's healthy.

That said Scott has been playing at 13 for Edinburgh in recent weeks so he could yet rock up at 13 for Scotland.

MacKnocked-on wrote:There's Alex Black at Edinburgh isn't there? Seems to have been totally forgotten about, not even sure if he plays any club rugby. It's old hat but very worrying nonetheless, he and the other srumhalf Kennedy at Glasgow not getting game time and standoffs Leonard and Hunter being ignored at Edinburgh. At least four Scottish halfbacks who won't develop in the current system. I watched Kennedy play really well for Glasgow in a Rabo game a few months ago, real pity.

There’s a reason you’ve not seen much of Alex Black – he’s totally pish. Whever he has played for Edinburgh he has been monumentally awful. Kennedy is worth persuing – not Black.

Does anyone know when the initial squad Is announced? Is it St Andrews they normally have their camp at?

RDW_Scotland wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:There's Alex Black at Edinburgh isn't there? Seems to have been totally forgotten about, not even sure if he plays any club rugby. It's old hat but very worrying nonetheless, he and the other srumhalf Kennedy at Glasgow not getting game time and standoffs Leonard and Hunter being ignored at Edinburgh. At least four Scottish halfbacks who won't develop in the current system. I watched Kennedy play really well for Glasgow in a Rabo game a few months ago, real pity.

There’s a reason you’ve not seen much of Alex Black – he’s totally pish. Whever he has played for Edinburgh he has been monumentally awful. Kennedy is worth persuing – not Black.

That's ok then if that's the case but it's still a shame about Kennedy, Leonard and Hunter.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Explains why he doesn't tackle then - 'don't touch my face!!'

Sounds like Hidalgo-Clyne and Tim Visser will both be appearing in the next Zoolander movie.

RDW_Scotland wrote:See for yourself!

http://edinburghrugby.org/news/edinburgh-news/4613-cringle-a-hidalgo-clyne-get-u20s-call

Jeez - that's a funny picture. I wonder which one plays in the front row....

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Explains why he doesn't tackle then - 'don't touch my face!!'

Sounds like Hidalgo-Clyne and Tim Visser will both be appearing in the next Zoolander movie.

Orange Mocha Frappaccino's!!!



Jitter bug! *click* *click* Jitter Bug! *click* *click*

You put the boom-boom into my heart, You send my soul sky high when your lovin starts!

Jackson or Weir

Without going into any stats over the past 2 years Weir beats Jackson, but maybe close this year as Jacko is getting more chances after his miserable contributions at times. Also Jacko is nearly 3 years older.

Weir was given the place because he was better. I think though he try's to hard at times and this is his downfall, but he is still learning.

There is no doubt Weir should be part of the 6N but that does leave Glasgow vulnerable so what?

bsando wrote:Samuel Hidalgo-Clyne (born 4 August 1993, Granada, Spain) is a Scottish rugby union player who is contracted to Edinburgh Rugby in the RaboDirect Pro12, as well as the Scotland 7s team. He can play either half-back position, but is recognized firstly as a fly-half. He is also a model and is currently in the running to be Scotland on Sunday's most eligible bachelor. - wiki

With a bio like that, I'll be really disappointed if he doesn't interview, play and fight like Señor Inigo Montoya.

bsando wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Explains why he doesn't tackle then - 'don't touch my face!!'

Sounds like Hidalgo-Clyne and Tim Visser will both be appearing in the next Zoolander movie.

Orange Mocha Frappaccino's!!!



Jitter bug! *click* *click* Jitter Bug! *click* *click*

You put the boom-boom into my heart, You send my soul sky high when your lovin starts!

Id rather we dont lose any players to petrol station explosions, were thin on the ground as it is...

I certainly wouldn't trust Ross Ford at the petrol pump. There'd be fuel everywhere except in the fuel tank!

Even if Ford got some fuel in the tank, the tank itself would either spring a leak and spill fuel out of the car or just spit it back out.

You in a bad mood again FES?? It's all doom and gloom with you again today!

I have a cold. I think it may be terminal (I don't suffer illness well).

I have though just written a crackingly eloquent piece on Tim Swinson, although as my nose started to block, I decided to lay into the Ruck Inspector.

FES should have got the interim mnagers job imo

I second that. May as well tattoo 13 to Mark Bennett's narrow shoulders.

oh yeah. forgot you fancy him

Yer not getting the job now!

where is RDW..............

Yes?

grab yer coat

yer hired!

Are you Mark Dodson in disguise like??

My first decision will be to start myself at 13, and radge at tighthead. That can only go well!

To be fair there was a time I might have fancied my chances but we are doing ok in the thighthead department these days...

Outside centre is all yours tho RD

It's only Tuilagi - how hard can it be!

One player that we seem to have forgotten about is Strokosh. I've never really been a fan of his for Scotland because he talks the talk a lot better than we walks the walk. I'd pick Harley over him, and would rather Denton at 6 over him as well.

RDW_Scotland wrote:One player that we seem to have forgotten about is Strokosh. I've never really been a fan of his for Scotland because he talks the talk a lot better than we walks the walk. I'd pick Harley over him, and would rather Denton at 6 over him as well.

ditto. I can only really recall 2 games where Strokosch was a menace. Australia in the summer and Canada at pittodrie a few years ago.

Agreed. A self-styled tough guy that misses a few too many tackles for my liking. I like his attitute, but his performances haven't lived up to his billing (and certainly haven't justified playing Brown out of position).

On a different theme, I noticed that the Saxons squad was announced yesterday. A very strong group. Our result and performance against them last season was hugely encouraging, but I must say we're right up against it this season.

Assuming Scott Johnson does the right thing and picks the Scotland 1st XV exactly as I suggest, the Scotland A squad will look something like this:

1.Shiells 2.Hall 3.Cross 4.Gilchrist 5.Kellock (c) 6.Strokosch 7.Grant 8.Wilson 9.Lawson 10.Weir 11.Fife 12.Horne 13.Dunbar 14.Seymour 15.R Lamont

16.Dickinson 17.Lawrie 18.Hislop 19.Ryder 20.McInally 21.Kennedy 22.Heathcote 23.Brown

My guess (a wild stab at this stage) at the Saxons is as follows:

1.Mullan 2.Paice 3.Doran-Jones 4.Slater 5.Robson 6.Clark 7.Kvesic 8.Vulipola 9.Simpson 10.Flood 11.Wade 12.Turner-Hall 13.Lowe 14.Sharples 15.Abendannon

16.Thomas 17.Gray 18.Fraser 19.Botha 20.Dowson 21.Dickson 22.Ford 23.Biggs

Any grounds for optimism this time round??

There wasn't last time round and a masterful half back combination and centre partnership produced a fine display.

I think just about every Englishman I met at the 6N 1st XV game the day after said that they would have feared our A side more than the 1st XV.

Anyone else like to see Grove at 13 for the 6N ?

I have Grove on the bench for the 1st XV, and went with Sean Lamont at 13. Could easily be persuaded to switch them though. Grove is such a solid performer and although not as powerful as Lamont, he's a very direct player and does all the basics to a high standard. He's the sort of player who makes others around him look good, which in truth may be exactly what we need given our back three.

It really was a remarkable performance last year. Sadly it looks like being a one off, as I haven't seen Weir or Scott play as well since.