Scotland squad for the 6 Nations

by bsando Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

Scotland squad for training camp in Glasgow (January 20-23) ahead of RBS 6 Nations Championship:

Backs: Peter Murchie*, Stuart Hogg, Sean Maitland*, Tommy Seymour*, Sean Lamont (all Glasgow Warriors), Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby), Max Evans (Castres), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Dunbar* Peter Horne*, Duncan Weir, Ruaridh Jackson (all Glasgow Warriors), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Henry Pyrgos, Sean Kennedy* (both Glasgow Warriors) and Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby).

Forwards: Alasdair Dickinson (Sale Sharks), Ryan Grant, Dougie Hall, Pat MacArthur* (all Glasgow Warriors), Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors), Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby), Moray Low, Alastair Kellock (both Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Sale Sharks), Jim Hamilton (Gloucester), Grant Gilchrist* (Edinburgh Rugby), Kelly Brown (Saracens), Robert Harley, Ryan Wilson* (both Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby), Richie Vernon (Sale Sharks), Chris Fusaro* (Glasgow Warriors).

* = Uncapped.

Invited to be with the squad as they recover from injury: Chris Cusiter, John Barclay and Jon Welsh (all Glasgow Warriors) Nick De Luca and Ross Rennie (both Edinburgh Rugby) and Scott Lawson (London Irish).

Note to editors: Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) will miss the camp for family reasons as his wife is expecting their second child.

by **RDW** Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:49 pm

I heard that Mark Bennett wasn't born of natural means, but came to life when Optimus Prime headbutted Chuck Norris...

by GLove39 Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:50 pm

9th page. Great effort guys Yahoo

by **George Carlin** Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:51 pm

Totally. Practically, well, 'Irish' levels of chat. Leprechaun

by bsando Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:58 pm

With the selected squad..

1.Grant 2.MacArthur 3.Murray
4.Gray 5.Hamilton
6.Brown 7.Denton (It'll work) 8.Beattie
9. Pyrgos 10. Heathcote 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Dunbar 14.Maitland 15.Hogg (sigh)

16.Low 17.Ford 18.Dickinson 19.Kellock 20.Fusaro 21.Laidlaw 22.Jackson 23.Seymour

Seymour can cover wing and Maitland can slip to 15 if Hogg gets injured.

But I would be willing to bet a full pint of beer that Johnson will pick this team vs England...

1.Grant 2.Ford 3.Murray
4.Gray 5.Hamilton
6.Brown 7.Fusaro 8.Denton
9.Laidlaw (shudder) 10.Jackson 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.S Lamont 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

16.Dickinson 17.Hall 18.Low 19.Kellock 20.Beattie 21.Heathcote 22.Pyrgos 23.Evans

Its isn't an awful team, our backsline is much better but I've highlighted positions and players I think will be of concern.

by **RDW** Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:00 pm

I'm still to be convinced that Denton at 7 is better than Brown at 7 and Denton at 6...

by bsando Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:02 pm

GLove39 wrote:9th page. Great effort guys

next target? 20 pages? By then it may be entitled "Team for Grand Slam" Whistle

by TJ1 Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:03 pm

Bsando - I know if they are old enough they are good enough but is your prefered half back combo not just a tad inexperienced?

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:07 pm

Laidlaw will do fine at 9 IMO.

He'll certainly have a pack that can create a stable platform for him.

by bsando Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:07 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm still to be convinced that Denton at 7 is better than Brown at 7 and Denton at 6...

I don't really care which player is at 7 or 6, just think it would be bloody awesome to have 3 world class back rowers on at the same time. But Johnson will pick Fusaro and I reckon Beattie will be on the bench.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:07 pm

George Carlin wrote:The jury is still out. Which will give us lots of potential to use up any foetus, deity or umbilical cord jokes not already splashed onto these threads. Which can't be many, really.

You've got to feel sorry for that poor jury. That's two seasons the poor sods have been stuck in some travel tavern off the side of the nearest motorway to the court house, with no sign of the trial coming to an end.......

by funnyExiledScot Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:12 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm still to be convinced that Denton at 7 is better than Brown at 7 and Denton at 6...

I thought I was arguing that a back row of Brown - Fusaro - Beattie (my back row) is better than Denton - Brown - Beattie (your back row).

If I had to play your back row, I do think I'd use Brown at 6 and Denton at 7, but I concede that is an unorthodox view and I can immediately see the problems. I just hate the thought of Kelly Brown following up such a strong performance at 6 with an average struggle at 7 for Scotland. I'd rather concede the fact that we don't have an available openside and try to plug the gap as best we can, rather than shift two people to positions where I don't think either thrive.

by **George Carlin** Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:13 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:The jury is still out. Which will give us lots of potential to use up any foetus, deity or umbilical cord jokes not already splashed onto these threads. Which can't be many, really.

You've got to feel sorry for that poor jury. That's two seasons the poor sods have been stuck in some travel tavern off the side of the nearest motorway to the court house, with no sign of the trial coming to an end.......

Can we at least give the lad the chance to disappoint you? Shocked

by **RDW** Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:14 pm

I just can’t help but think that Fusaro will be like a fly bouncing off a window against that English pack…

by bsando Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:14 pm

TJ wrote:Bsando - I know if they are old enough they are good enough but is your prefered half back combo not just a tad inexperienced?

Oh yeah totally, there is no way in hell Johnson will go for it but they're the form players in my opinion. We have experience elsewhere in the team and its a good opportunity to try young players out rather than being too conservative and just going with what has been done in the past. Having Laidlaw and Jackson on the bench would mean any disaster situation could be altered hopefully. But as I said I fully expect Laidlaw and Jackson to start.

by MacKnocked-on Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:15 pm

I wouldn't be so sure Evans will be selected, certainly hoping not. I think he'll struggle to outshine the likes of Seymour in training.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:17 pm

George Carlin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:The jury is still out. Which will give us lots of potential to use up any foetus, deity or umbilical cord jokes not already splashed onto these threads. Which can't be many, really.

You've got to feel sorry for that poor jury. That's two seasons the poor sods have been stuck in some travel tavern off the side of the nearest motorway to the court house, with no sign of the trial coming to an end.......
Can we at least give the lad the chance to disappoint you?

It's not me you should be appealing to! It's all the coaches that have seen him play and train and won't pick him!!

When he is selected, believe me, there will be no fan as interested as I am in the outcome. Hell, if he's any good I'll have to leave the forum.... Run

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:22 pm

As for the 7 slot our hand is kind of forced here, Barclay and Rennie both injured means that we either give a new cap to either Fusaro or Wilson at Twickenham or play Denton in a 7.5 role and pass over the breakdown work to Brown...

I don't have an issue with Denton and Brown playing the way Bonnaire and Dusatoire do for France with noone being an openside or blindside, rather one playing on the right and one playing on the left. I think their abilities could just about manage that against England.

Our saving grace is they don't really have a specialist fetcher at 7 either in the shape of Robshaw.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:28 pm

Agreed with Radge on this. I think most of us on here are purists that like a specialist openside in the pack, but failing having a half decent one to hand, I'd rather take a chance with Denton, or having left and right as Radge suggests, than ruining Brown in a specialist openside position.

I've never seen Brown play well at 7, but he was absolutely outstanding at 6 against Racing. Outstanding.

by **George Carlin** Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:30 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I just can’t help but think that Fusaro will be like a fly bouncing off a window against that English pack…

There have been some great images this afternoon.

Thanks to FES, for the past hour I have been imagining our inside centre being a one-legged chimp sitting on a broken chair in the outfield and eating from a foil Chinese takeaway tray. Odds on, he would still make fewer mistakes than De Luca and move quicker than Morrison.

by R!skysports Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:30 pm

TJ wrote:Bsando - I know if they are old enough they are good enough but is your prefered half back combo not just a tad inexperienced?

Is it not

If you are good enough you are old enough.

Your way could mean bringing on the grand dads

by **RDW** Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:31 pm

Right and left flankers mean hee haw - it is just the side of the scrum the push on! OK you could argue that if there is a scrum close to the touchline it means the openside will be the firs to get to the ruck, but generally there's not much point in calling them left and right flankers if all it denotes is what side of the scrum it pushes on!

Who does the tight work and defencive nastiness? Who hangs back in the rucks waiting to make a nuisance of themselves, instead of piling straight in there?

by Captain_Sensible Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:36 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I just can’t help but think that Fusaro will be like a fly bouncing off a window against that English pack…

He doesn’t get mashed around in the Rabo or the HC, and he’ll hardly be used as a primary ball carrier when we have Grant, Gray, Beattie, Denton and Brown in the team, so I’m not too worried.

Fusaro makes the best use of his size, and runs around like a dervish all game. He’s really hard to shift once he’s over the ball and is a good tackler.

by TJ1 Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:37 pm

Riskysports wrote:
TJ wrote:Bsando - I know if they are old enough they are good enough but is your prefered half back combo not just a tad inexperienced?

Is it not

If you are good enough you are old enough.

Your way could mean bringing on the grand dads

You know what I mean

by TJ1 Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:39 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Right and left flankers mean hee haw - it is just the side of the scrum the push on! OK you could argue that if there is a scrum close to the touchline it means the openside will be the firs to get to the ruck, but generally there's not much point in calling them left and right flankers if all it denotes is what side of the scrum it pushes on!

Who does the tight work and defencive nastiness?

the first on the scene

Who hangs back in the rucks waiting to make a nuisance of themselves, instead of piling straight in there?

the second on the scene
??????

by R!skysports Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:43 pm

TJ wrote:
Riskysports wrote:
TJ wrote:Bsando - I know if they are old enough they are good enough but is your prefered half back combo not just a tad inexperienced?

Is it not

If you are good enough you are old enough.

Your way could mean bringing on the grand dads

You know what I mean

I know, but it was worth pointing out as it brings 3 extra posts on our quest to 20 pages

by funnyExiledScot Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:47 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Right and left flankers mean hee haw - it is just the side of the scrum the push on! OK you could argue that if there is a scrum close to the touchline it means the openside will be the firs to get to the ruck, but generally there's not much point in calling them left and right flankers if all it denotes is what side of the scrum it pushes on!

Who does the tight work and defencive nastiness? Who hangs back in the rucks waiting to make a nuisance of themselves, instead of piling straight in there?

To me it means that the flankers will stick to the right and left of the scrum, regardless of whether the right is the open side (i.e. the side with the most space on it) or the blindside (the side with less space on it).

A classic openside will play there because he's small and quick, and can either get to the opposition fly half or reach the first breakdown quicker. These days it matters less I agree, because most scrums don't actually complete, and you have to go back a few years to remember a decent try scored from first phase. In open play things get fragmented, and frankly it doesn't really matter so much. Chunk often used to think he was a centre for example.....

If you agree that 6 and 7 don't matter, then I don't see your objection to me slapping the 7 jersey on Denton and the 6 jersey on Brown. Whatever the outcome, I'd want Brown to be doing exactly the same thing he does for Sarries, because he does it really well!

by TJ1 Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:48 pm

Riskysports wrote:
TJ wrote:
Riskysports wrote:
TJ wrote:Bsando - I know if they are old enough they are good enough but is your prefered half back combo not just a tad inexperienced?

Is it not

If you are good enough you are old enough.

Your way could mean bringing on the grand dads

You know what I mean

I know, but it was worth pointing out as it brings 3 extra posts on our quest to 20 pages

I know that you know that he knows that she know that I know that.......................

by R!skysports Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:52 pm

TJ wrote:
Riskysports wrote:
TJ wrote:
Riskysports wrote:
TJ wrote:Bsando - I know if they are old enough they are good enough but is your prefered half back combo not just a tad inexperienced?

Is it not

If you are good enough you are old enough.

Your way could mean bringing on the grand dads

You know what I mean

I know, but it was worth pointing out as it brings 3 extra posts on our quest to 20 pages
I know that you know that he knows that she know that I know that.......................

But what I do know, is Brown has to be 6 - the rest is just a shot of 18 year old black bush - sweet, burning and really not achievable as often as we would like

by **RDW** Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:57 pm

Riskysports wrote:[ the rest is just a shot of 18 year old black bush - sweet, burning and really not achievable as often as we would like

I am assuming that is a drink?? If not you've just broken pretty much every house rule in existence! censored

by TJ1 Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:57 pm

Anyone got any links to clips of heathcote? I have not seen him play

by funnyExiledScot Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:07 pm

Few and far between this season TJ. I remember him against Glasgow last season, and he was metronomic with his kicking, and his distribution skills were not bad at all.

I'm very glad we poached him (thank you RAF Lossiemouth), but I think he needs to be playing more to be picked (as Johnson stated in the Sunday Times this weekend).

by Imperialbigdave Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:07 pm

Pretty good squad, Dickinson and Evans aside.

Ill echo the previous sentiments that Grove, Tonks, Swinson and Ryder can feel hard done by, especially after Tonks and Murchies respective performances this weekend.

I wanted to see Roddy grant in there so badly, but I cant argue with his non inclusion. When barclay got injured against Castres, that shouldve put a firecracker up his erse, but it didnt. He hasnt been bad, he just hasnt raised his game as someone with an opportunity like his shouldve (although it cant be easy playing for edinburgh).

Gordy Reid needs to establish himself as at least second choice if he wants to break into the team, and unfortunately I just cant see that happening at Glasgow with Grant and Welsh there unless Welsh makes his foray into the tighthead shirt a bit more permanent.

Kennedy's inclusion does highlight how short of resources we are at nine, but the phrase scraping the barrell is one I would reserve for bad players being selected. In Kennedy's case, its more that he can count his pro experience in minutes rather than games. Still, he inherits the mantle of a player who's scotland career started in similar circumstances, if I recall correctly, Blair was ridiculously inexperienced yet talented when he got capped, and look how he turned out.

I think Lamonts time on the wing is over, he just hasnt got the pace or finishing instincts compared to the other options and his strike rate speaks for itself. Hopefully some of glasgows defensive nous has rubbed off on him and hell do a job in the centre.

so yeah, fairly happy. Hopefully the edinburgh guys will look at the proportions of representation and get a kick up the erse.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:13 pm

Kennedy's inclusion makes CP's piece about our "strength and depth at 9" look rather silly, when you look at the 9's in other 6 Nations squads.

As you say, very often younger players can surprise. I was very pleasantly surprised by Pyrgos at 9 in a Scotland jersey in the AIs. He wasn't phased by the South Africans at all.

by R!skysports Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:16 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Riskysports wrote:[ the rest is just a shot of 18 year old black bush - sweet, burning and really not achievable as often as we would like

I am assuming that is a drink?? If not you've just broken pretty much every house rule in existence!

It is a drink - so few

Although..... Laugh

by bsando Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:22 pm

Wow I only created this thread 3 weeks ago and there is already more posts and views than the lions thread! Must mean a Scottish GS is on the cards Wink

I'll have to check my tea leaves tomorrow morning.

by 123456789 Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:33 pm

Closer to the England game can we rename this England vs Scotland team news? Then we can get the upper hand by intimidating them with our intelligent debate, then a couple of days after rename it: Scotland vs Italy and then after that Scotland vs Ireland etc.

by 123456789 Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:35 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I just can’t help but think that Fusaro will be like a fly bouncing off a window against that English pack…

Like Denton against Glasgow Whistle

by funnyExiledScot Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:35 pm

I'd suggest something stronger than tea leaves if you want to contemplate a Scottish GS!!

I'd take two wins personally. In fact, were I offered two wins by a single point right now, I'd grab that with both hands!!

by funnyExiledScot Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:36 pm

123456789 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I just can’t help but think that Fusaro will be like a fly bouncing off a window against that English pack…
Like Denton against Glasgow

That's irrelevant. The Glasgow pack is far superior to the softies that England turn out!

by jimbopip Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:47 pm

Just a couple of points; 9 uncapped Warriors in the squad and 7 MFL in total, Tonks -Swinson-Ryder must know how the Birmingham 7 felt, and only four second rows.
Grant- McArthur-Rev
Gray-Big Jim
Kelly B-Jonny B- Ritchie V ( Ithink his pace and athleticism will be seen as an effective counter to the "super athletes in their much vaunted back row)
Henry- Ruaridh, ( Laidlaw to cover both, he is a warrior and leader BUT the MFL are keech and not following gameplans apparently- go figure!)
McVisser-??-?? Maitland- Hogg ( probably Horne-Schlong at 12/13 but it is a real conundrum)
Dickinson- Ford-Low (I feel it will be a fast, harem scarem game, god bless Bill McL, and a fast, mobile set of replacements could rip into them in the last quarter)
Big Al
Denton
Laidlaw
Heathcote Seymour

by **George Carlin** Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:49 pm

Tomorrow I'm going to post comments about BOD being overrated, Lydiate being a bedwetter, Wilkinson being a bit of a girl, Gareth Edwards probably taking steroids and Stephen Jones being the misunderstood Nostradamus of the written word.

Then we'll see the replies ratchet up. Whistle

by 123456789 Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:55 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
123456789 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I just can’t help but think that Fusaro will be like a fly bouncing off a window against that English pack…
Like Denton against Glasgow

That's irrelevant. The Glasgow pack is far superior to the softies that England turn out!

Don't make them angry, compliment them and their massive egos will result in a complacent attitude meaning our team, who will hopefully be psyched up after their dreadful Tonga performance, will destroy them.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:00 pm

Anyone know how Joe Ansbro's recovery is coming along? We will really miss him this 6Ns

by TJ1 Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:04 pm

Am I the only one who thinks Ansbro is not the real deal?

by 123456789 Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:13 pm

TJ wrote:Am I the only one who thinks Ansbro is not the real deal?

I'm with you to an extent but I'd have him above De Luca, on a different note we're currently 23 posts off doubling the English!

by Scot Abroad Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:42 pm

123456789 wrote:
TJ wrote:Am I the only one who thinks Ansbro is not the real deal?
I'm with you to an extent but I'd have him above De Luca, on a different note we're currently 23 posts off doubling the English!

Better get cracking then!

by Solid8 Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:46 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Right and left flankers mean hee haw - it is just the side of the scrum the push on! OK you could argue that if there is a scrum close to the touchline it means the openside will be the firs to get to the ruck, but generally there's not much point in calling them left and right flankers if all it denotes is what side of the scrum it pushes on!

If McCaw and Pocock weren't the beasts that they are I think that the notion of a dedicated fetcher would have died out some time ago. Certainly there is no one in the 6N who poses the same threat that they do playing from the openside.

I would much rather see the back row figure out a way of working together and committing to running themselves ragged knowing that they can call on decent experienced replacements in the second half than try to nominate a player to play in a position that they are not practised at. In this instance I would say that whoever is playing 7/8 should be working together to close down the oppo and leave the blindside to the rest of the pack. Its a tough ask but not impossible. The back row is one of the few areas where we have a decent strength in depth we should be taking advantage of this and be willing to use the bench, not stressing about the lack of a dedicated fetcher.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Who does the tight work and defencive nastiness? Who hangs back in the rucks waiting to make a nuisance of themselves, instead of piling straight in there?

This should be up to the players who are arriving at the ruck to decide, they are pros and should be able to think as such. Rarely will a player's role at the breakdown be determined by the number of their shirt in this day and age.

by GLove39 Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:56 pm

123456789 wrote:Closer to the England game can we rename this England vs Scotland team news? Then we can get the upper hand by intimidating them with our intelligent debate, then a couple of days after rename it: Scotland vs Italy and then after that Scotland vs Ireland etc.

Sounds like a plan Braveheart

by gboycottnut Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:58 pm

Are Scotland going to pick a light and mobile forward pack consisting of 2 number 8's in the second row just as they famously did with good success in the 1987 Five Nations Championship where Derek White partnered Iain Paxton in the second row, which allowed for a very impressive Scottish backrow to be fielded consisting of John Jeffrey at 6, Finlay Calder at 7 and John Beattie at 8.

by TJ1 Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:17 pm

gboycottnut wrote:Are Scotland going to pick a light and mobile forward pack consisting of 2 number 8's in the second row just as they famously did with good success in the 1987 Five Nations Championship where Derek White partnered Iain Paxton in the second row, which allowed for a very impressive Scottish backrow to be fielded consisting of John Jeffrey at 6, Finlay Calder at 7 and John Beattie at 8.

No need - Gray is mobile and fast as is Ford. It would be a mistake as they could get mullered in the scrums

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