Scotland squad for the 6 Nations

First topic message reminder :

Scotland squad for training camp in Glasgow (January 20-23) ahead of RBS 6 Nations Championship:

Backs: Peter Murchie*, Stuart Hogg, Sean Maitland*, Tommy Seymour*, Sean Lamont (all Glasgow Warriors), Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby), Max Evans (Castres), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Dunbar* Peter Horne*, Duncan Weir, Ruaridh Jackson (all Glasgow Warriors), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Henry Pyrgos, Sean Kennedy* (both Glasgow Warriors) and Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby).

Forwards: Alasdair Dickinson (Sale Sharks), Ryan Grant, Dougie Hall, Pat MacArthur* (all Glasgow Warriors), Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors), Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby), Moray Low, Alastair Kellock (both Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Sale Sharks), Jim Hamilton (Gloucester), Grant Gilchrist* (Edinburgh Rugby), Kelly Brown (Saracens), Robert Harley, Ryan Wilson* (both Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby), Richie Vernon (Sale Sharks), Chris Fusaro* (Glasgow Warriors).

* = Uncapped.

Invited to be with the squad as they recover from injury: Chris Cusiter, John Barclay and Jon Welsh (all Glasgow Warriors) Nick De Luca and Ross Rennie (both Edinburgh Rugby) and Scott Lawson (London Irish).

Note to editors: Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) will miss the camp for family reasons as his wife is expecting their second child.

What about Ally Hogg and Shiels down the road at your border cousins Newcastle?

Might have a battle for Scott Wilson though...

to be honest on current form Beattie is my number 1 choice 8, purely because he's playing for a decent French side and making a huge impression in France. Think back to the impact Hines had coming from France!

I'd put Wilson second and Hogg/Denton about on a par at the moment, although Denton has the advantage he's playing premiership rugby, albeit in a terrible Edinburgh side!

NeilyBroon wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:Here’s my stab at a team

1. Grant
2. MacArthur
3. Rev
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Brown (c)
7. Beattie
8. Barclay/Fusaro
9. Laidlaw
10. Heathcote
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Grove
14. Maitland
15. Hogg/Tonks

Bench – Low, Welsh/Reid, MacArthur, Kellock, Denton, Pyrgos, Weir, S Lamont

I’d tell them to go out and play aggressive, committed, heads up rugby. Take points when they are on offer and do the simple things right.

Interesting choice of Beattie at 7, I always would have Beattie down as an 8 myself but the rest of the team looks pretty good, just switch Pyrgos for Laidlaw and that'd be pretty much what I'd expect from a sensible coach. However, having seen what Scott Johnson did with Wales my concern runs deep. Fingers crossed though! I'd also be tempted to give Kellock another run as captain, thoughts?

Oops, should be Beattie at 8. Silly me.

I like that team apart from MacArthur being his own bench replacement. Having said that; pre-planned substitutions on or around the 60 min mark drive me nuts so if you can only be replaced by yourself then that would often be fine.

Will Heathcliffe not disappear back to Barf with Robinson ?

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Will Heathcliffe not disappear back to Barf with Robinson ?

I don't think he's going to give up on international rugby just because the guy who talked him into playing for Scotland has left. It wasn't a rushed decision. He made the choice and I'd think it would possibly make him more determined to prove to everyone that it wasn't a mistake.

Hope I'm wrong but Jackson getting picked for Glasgow instead of Weir yet again and Laidlaw playing 9 for Edinburgh tomorrow seems to suggest they're in line to be the halfbacks against England. Just can't see Jackson cutting it somehow.

I despair at the thought of Jackson playing 10 at Twickenham

Personally think we should be going with Heathcote and Weir as our two 10s in the 6N.

Agreed, MacKnocked-on. Jackson's just too flaky for my liking, even with Laidlaw taking the place kicks.

Any time I watch him he just seems to run around and fling out random passes without first trying to commit the opposition defenders. And the less said about his kicking game...

I think the team will look something like this:

1. Grant
2. Ford (Hall)
3. Low
4. Kellock
5. Hamilton
6. Brown (c)
7. Rennie (Grant)
8. Denton
9. Pygos
10. Jackson
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. S Lamont / Grove
14. Hogg
15. Tonks

Bench – MacArthur, Welsh (Cross), Murray, Gray, Beattie, Laidlaw, S Lamont, Maitland / Evans

It looks like we've got a few injuries so I've included alternatives in brackets. I'd like to see Alex Grove get the 13 shirt too, but Schlong will probably get it instead

Harley may get the 7 shirt instead of Grant. And while I'd prefer a natural 7, like Grant, Robot could handle Robshaw

nickj wrote:I think the team will look something like this:

1. Grant
2. Ford (Hall)
3. Low
4. Kellock
5. Hamilton
6. Brown (c)
7. Rennie (Grant)
8. Denton
9. Pygos
10. Jackson
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. S Lamont / Grove
14. Hogg
15. Tonks

Bench – MacArthur, Welsh (Cross), Murray, Gray, Beattie, Laidlaw, S Lamont, Maitland / Evans

It looks like we've got a few injuries so I've included alternatives in brackets. I'd like to see Alex Grove get the 13 shirt too, but Schlong will probably get it instead

There's nobody in that team that can be relied upon to kick goals, something we will surely need if we are to stand any chance.

I had Jackson down as kicker but you're right he's not reliable enough is he.

I would say Laidlaw's in at 9 then, even though Pygos had the edge in the 1872.

Can Tonks kick? He can do everything else.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I despair at the thought of Jackson playing 10 at Twickenham

Wouldn't be the first time though. Think back to 2011 and he did pretty well against an English team on the cusp of a Grand Slam. Slotted a nice drop goal & don't remember him doing anything disastrous. Although sadly he seems to have regressed since then.

There's an interview with Mark Dodson in today's Scotsman where he alludes to everybody, players included, deciding that it was time for Robinson to go which I think is quite incredible and a bit alarming really. By the same token can we let Dodson know that we, the fans, have decided that some of the players should go? I know the success levels are somewhat different but I can't see Alex Ferguson leaving Man Utd because the players decided it was time for him to do so. Sounds to me as if egos could be a problem in the Scotland squad.

My team:

1.Grant 2.MacArthur 3.Murray 4.Gray 5.Swinson 6.Brown (c) 7.Harley 8.Beattie 9.Pyrgos 10.Laidlaw 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Lamont 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

16.Reid 17.Ford 18.Low 19.Hamilton 20.Denton 21.Jackson 22.Grove 23.Tonks

Some points:

- MacArthur is a better thrower than Ford and is busier in the tackle and around the ruck. Ford needs to sort himself out, and can prove himself from the bench, where he, Low, Hamilton and Denton can give us some impact.

- Swinson is one tough cookie and works his socks off, plus he's a very competent technical player.

- whilst I hate not having a natural openside, we don't have a fit one, and Harley was every bit as good as Grant against Edinburgh, plus brings a huge workrate in the loose. Similar player to Robshaw.

- Laidlaw didn't manage the game well from 9, and was far more effective at 10. It's almost as if he's only played 1.5 games at 9 in two years....

- Jackson would be my 10 if he could prove himself with the boot.

- I'm no fan of Lamont's limited distribution skills from the centre, but against a very physical England backline we can't rely on Tim "don't touch my hair" Visser to punch holes where space can't be found.

I read that too MacKnocked-on. I'll withhold judgement until I see how we do in the Spring, but alarm bells started ringing when Dodson mentioned that the players had a hand in Robinson going. Yes players should be consulted on coaching appointments but coups should not be tolerated.

For me it all sounds a wee bit like Ruddock's demise with Wales and the common factor is obviously Johnson.

On another slightly different note I've often wondered how having 2 pro teams in Scotland affects player egos. Do some of our boys get a 2/ 3 year contract and think they've made it?

The comments that worried me about Johnson coming in is that a common thread in every article was that he's "popular with the players".

This makes me shudder.

Was Jim Telfer "popular with the players" I wonder, particularly the tight five? How about Warren Gatland and Shaun Edwards? Graham Henry was hardly a people person was he?

Whilst the results meant that Robinson had to go, there are certainly one or two players that can count themselves very lucky to have the number of caps they do (and in that regard they owed him a huge amount for sticking by them).

It's difficult to ascertain the facts here, but whether a coach is "popular with the players" or not doesn't really matter to me. I realise that with regard to coaching and motivating players there are many ways to skin a cat, but the players liking the coach is not a must have by any means to a successful side.

Hopefully we're reading more into it than actually occured but still can't see this happening back in the Jim Telfer days can you? Even considering the calibre of player we had then; Hastings, Jeffrey, Calder, Milne and so on.

My selection, who I think is on form - note killer bs back and ready to snap

1. Grant -
2. Me - I can throw straight if not then Ford
3. Murray -
4. Gray -
5. Hamilton -
6. Brown-
7. Barclay -
8. Beattie -
9. Pygros-
10. Weir-
11. Visser -
12. Scott -
13. Dunbar -
14. Maitland -
15. Tonks - .

I wonder if the prospect of the Killer Bs reuniting would breathe new life into Barclay. It’d be great to see Brown chopping, Barclay stealing and Beattie smashing through Barrett and Tuilagi. That would be the stuff of dreams!

Edinburgh playing Laidlaw to 9 looks like a decision from above, with the intent on him coming into the 6N squad as a 9 and having Jackson, Weir and Heathcote as the 10 options. That’s fine with me but why is Bradley playing Scott at 13? If he’s going to be Scotland’s 12 going forward then he needs to be played at 12. I didn’t even know he was on the field during the game at the weekend until he caught Laidlaw’s chip. For me he’s first choice at 12 but not 13.

Scot Abroad wrote:I wonder if the prospect of the Killer Bs reuniting would breathe new life into Barclay. It’d be great to see Brown chopping, Barclay stealing and Beattie smashing through Barrett and Tuilagi. That would be the stuff of dreams!

Edinburgh playing Laidlaw to 9 looks like a decision from above, with the intent on him coming into the 6N squad as a 9 and having Jackson, Weir and Heathcote as the 10 options. That’s fine with me but why is Bradley playing Scott at 13? If he’s going to be Scotland’s 12 going forward then he needs to be played at 12. I didn’t even know he was on the field during the game at the weekend until he caught Laidlaw’s chip. For me he’s first choice at 12 but not 13.

Here's hoping it's not so Morrison will be playing 12...

Morrison - De Luca combo

Well De Lucas been ruled out for 6 weeks due to an eye injury meaning he'll miss the England & Italy games http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/rugby-scotland-may-lose-nick-de-luca-for-rbs-six-nations-1-2716688

This better not mean SJ decides to opt for Max I'm a winger / centre yet only make 4m going forward with the ball in hand Evans as a replacement

GLove39 wrote:This better not mean SJ decides to opt for Max I'm a winger / centre yet only make 4m going forward with the ball in hand Evans as a replacement

You're having a laugh, there's no way he makes 4m. Evans is surplus to requirements and shouldn't even be in the training squad. Visser, Maitland, Seymour and SLamont are the wingers. I'd bring Walker back before having Evans in the squad again.

Losing De Luca is a blow IMO. He's been a key component of our back line, both offensively and defensively.

We look short of comparable alternatives. Lamont and Grove look like the most obvious picks? Unless Hogg moves forward?

I'm not convinced by Evans at 13 or 14 but are there any alternatives playing regularly?

nickj wrote:Losing De Luca is a blow IMO. He's been a key component of our back line, both offensively and defensively.

We look short of comparable alternatives. Lamont and Grove look like the most obvious picks? Unless Hogg moves forward?

I'm not convinced by Evans at 13 or 14 but are there any alternatives playing regularly?

Evans doesn't play regularly anyway. 13 options would be Grove, Dunbar, SLamont, Hogg (at a push because he was rubbish against Munster), Ansbro when fit, Cairns when fit, De Luca when fit.

Max Evans is atrocious, and has not deserved the Scotland shirt this year at all. God knows why he was picked over the likes of Seymour on wing let alone anyone half decent in the centres.

Grove first for me, Lamont is second choice, he did quite well at 13 for Llanelli so I'll reserve judgement on the international stage, although I wouldn't hold my breath!

On player power - yes the players should not pick the coach and yes the co0ach should not be pals with the players but it would appear to me that the players had totally lost faith in Robinson - not believing the gameplan he wanted them to play was right and look at the ludicrous selectons he made.

Lest face reality -= Robinson made some major howlers that would cause anyone to loose faith in him. He should have gone a year earlier.

Once a coach loses the respect of the dressing room he has to go - and no one can have had any respect for Robinson after the utter shambles of the 6N which was his fault ahnd his alone as it was his selections that cost us.

MacKnocked-on wrote:

nickj wrote:I think the team will look something like this:

1. Grant
2. Ford (Hall)
3. Low
4. Kellock
5. Hamilton
6. Brown (c)
7. Rennie (Grant)
8. Denton
9. Pygos
10. Jackson
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. S Lamont / Grove
14. Hogg
15. Tonks

Bench – MacArthur, Welsh (Cross), Murray, Gray, Beattie, Laidlaw, S Lamont, Maitland / Evans

It looks like we've got a few injuries so I've included alternatives in brackets. I'd like to see Alex Grove get the 13 shirt too, but Schlong will probably get it instead

There's nobody in that team that can be relied upon to kick goals, something we will surely need if we are to stand any chance.

According to today's Herald Henry Pygos has been taking part in kicking training for Glasgow. Jacko looks like he'll be first choice kicker against Treviso but Pygos is pushing him close.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/glasgow-v-treviso-gregor-townsend-guarding-against-complacency-1-2717570

I really hope Johnson simply picks the best players we have in each position and then creates a game plan to suit these players. This does not include playing wings in the centre and muddling up the back row.

Simply organise things to get the best out of the guys we have and tell them to get on with it. No square pegs in round holes please

I feel like following Scottish Rugby is like watching alice in wonderland or the wizard of oz, constantly left in a state of bewilderment and WTF?!

Dean Ryan joins Scotland's backroom staff as Forwards Coach

I'm pleased about the Dean Ryan appointment. He's a sensible bloke and I've always been impressed with his analysis for Sky. His record as head coach at Glaws, whilst unsuccessful in terms of trophies, was pretty successful in terms of result (i.e. they often topped the table only to lose to form sides in the play-offs).

In truth I'd rather Dean Ryan were in charge than Scott Johnson.

Is that Dean Ryan who looks suspiciously like the sandman in Spiderman 3?

I'm pleased about Dean Ryan being appointed simply because he had a reputation as a tough guy and will hopefully give the forwards the kick up the backside they need. As for the Steve Scott appointment I think that may be just to get a Scottish voice in there and officially he is a "skills coach", an ex-hooker being a skills coach does not sound promising but I expect it may mean that he's Ross Ford's lineout coach.

Can't remember much about Steve Scott as a player to be honest but hopefully he's a decent coach, as people have said he's probably the token Scottish voice. Here's hoping Dean Ryan is a better ex-England-international-turned-forwards-coach than Neil Back currently seems to be ( although perhaps nobody could make anything of the Edinburgh forwards currently).

I think Dean Ryan will be good for Scotland, at least in our current state. I hope he's been keeping an eye on the Heineken as a pundit, because Johnnie Beattie needs to be in the squad on his performances and I really think he could galvanise the team, I think he could even improve Barclay's current form.

I remember Steve Scott - an average hooker that rotated with Robbie Russell as Gordon Bulloch's understudy if I recall correctly.

I think you're right, this role is to get Ross Ford to throw properly. Good luck to him I say!

NeilyBroon wrote:I think Dean Ryan will be good for Scotland, at least in our current state. I hope he's been keeping an eye on the Heineken as a pundit, because Johnnie Beattie needs to be in the squad on his performances and I really think he could galvanise the team, I think he could even improve Barclay's current form.

That's a good point. Hopefully working for Sky he's seen plenty of Beattie, also Alex Grove as well.

Well, well, well. I must say I'm impressed with this news. I've often wondered why Ryan never established himself in the Premiership. Scott's appointment looks like a sop. How the hell is he going to teach Laidlaw or Scott any skills?

NeilyBroon wrote:I think Dean Ryan will be good for Scotland, at least in our current state. I hope he's been keeping an eye on the Heineken as a pundit, because Johnnie Beattie needs to be in the squad on his performances and I really think he could galvanise the team, I think he could even improve Barclay's current form.

I think you're onto something here Beattie could captain the team, think how psyched up he'd be returning to the side as captain against England, it might also prompt Denton to really up his game. At the moment I think we should start with:
1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Harley
7. Fusaro
8. Beattie
9. Pyrgos
10. Weir
11. Visser
12. Dunbar
13. Scott
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Welsh
17. MacArthur
18. Low
19. Denton
20. Barclay
21. Brown
22. Laidlaw
23. Tonks


Harley could cover second-row and so could Denton at a push, Laidlaw could cover nine and ten and Tonks can also cover fly-half. If a centre gets injured then Hogg can replace them and Tonks can cover at full-back.
We have two strong back rows to combat the much vaunted English back row so we can give them a kicking in the last qaurter.

I think Fusaro, Welsh and Barclay are currently injured.

Weir hasn't started a game for a while. He needs to start for Glasgow before he can start for Scotland.

Dunbar hasn't played at 12 at all this season, and hasn't played particularly well at 13. He's also only just coming back from an injury, so not sure he's either ready or good enough for Barritt and Tuilagi.

You have 5 forward subs and not a single lock. Hamilton isn't an 80 minute player for me, particularly against the busy and youthful locks that England possess. You say Harley "covers" second row, but that's very different from being an international second row. He's currently at openside!

My team:

1.Grant 2.MacArthur 3.Murray 4.Gray 5.Swinson 6.Brown (c) 7.Harley 8.Beattie 9.Pyrgos 10.Laidlaw 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Lamont 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

16.Reid 17.Ford 18.Low 19.Hamilton 20.Denton 21.Jackson 22.Grove 23.Tonks

Ryan's a pretty good appointment in my opinion. I wonder if he will still have an advisory role with the Dragons too (albeit he only has his consultancy role once a week)? Also if he does, will we see Scots like Steve Shingler making their way to Dave Parade?

Steve Shingler's not allowed to be Scottish remember?

Dean Ryan could be a very good appointment, however hes been out of coaching for about 3 or 4 seasons now, so who knows.

I cant help but feel dissapointed that George Graham isnt in any of the new coaching systems announced today. As much as Peter Wright is a loudmouth erse, hes right in saying that theres a glass ceiling for coaches in this country. Grahams dragged Gala straight from 2nd divisioners to prem1 title contenders, scottish cup winners, and pretty much the only scottish team to be giving a good account of themselves in the B&I cup. He gets a team playing greater than the sum of its parts, is well known for not suffering fools in his squad, and doesnt stand for egos.

Apparently Scotland A will only have one match during the 6N which is very disappointing, not very good for player development.

Bradley will hopefully be 'asked to leave' or leave this season giving the SRU a good opportunity to give Graham his chance I vote Graham with Chalmers as backs coach.

No good cops here! But in all seriousness I do think they could make a good pairing like Gatland and Shaun Edwards (not so much anymore) but when they were at Wasps and the beginning of their tenure of Wales.