Scotland squad for the 6 Nations

First topic message reminder :

Scotland squad for training camp in Glasgow (January 20-23) ahead of RBS 6 Nations Championship:

Backs: Peter Murchie*, Stuart Hogg, Sean Maitland*, Tommy Seymour*, Sean Lamont (all Glasgow Warriors), Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby), Max Evans (Castres), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Dunbar* Peter Horne*, Duncan Weir, Ruaridh Jackson (all Glasgow Warriors), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Henry Pyrgos, Sean Kennedy* (both Glasgow Warriors) and Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby).

Forwards: Alasdair Dickinson (Sale Sharks), Ryan Grant, Dougie Hall, Pat MacArthur* (all Glasgow Warriors), Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors), Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby), Moray Low, Alastair Kellock (both Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Sale Sharks), Jim Hamilton (Gloucester), Grant Gilchrist* (Edinburgh Rugby), Kelly Brown (Saracens), Robert Harley, Ryan Wilson* (both Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby), Richie Vernon (Sale Sharks), Chris Fusaro* (Glasgow Warriors).

* = Uncapped.

Invited to be with the squad as they recover from injury: Chris Cusiter, John Barclay and Jon Welsh (all Glasgow Warriors) Nick De Luca and Ross Rennie (both Edinburgh Rugby) and Scott Lawson (London Irish).

Note to editors: Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) will miss the camp for family reasons as his wife is expecting their second child.

Had the size to play the modern game. Consequently, I was standing trackside near him and Scott on sunday, and the "Big Gav" nickname is still relevant. Perhaps even more so than 20 years ago.

Edit: Id just like to say what an honour it is for my post to have pushed us over the 12 pages mark. Id like to thank my parents, my teachers at school, my coach, my lecturers at Uni, my neighbours, my cat... listen to me blub! Anyhoo, im incredibly gratefull to be given this opportunity, I must of course thank all of you, who helped push us so close to the 12 page point. hugs and kisses!

funnyExiledScot wrote:Well if he's able to walk his dog he should certainly be capable of beating Robshaw to every breakdown

That's harsh on Danielli. I'd say he's a quicker player than James McLaren, Andy Henderson and Roland Reid. All players who have graced the Scotland back three in the last decade.

Is John Barclay's dog Scots qualified?

John Barclay's dog is a she !

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:John Barclay's dog is a she !

Max Evans still gets a game. So did Parks....

I don't know about everyone else, but the normal pre tournament/match optimism is creeping back. All logic indicates that we are going to get our a*se handed to us on a plate, but with a new coach, a squad that looks pretty reasonable, a cast of thousands to coach the players....I think we've got a chance of doing not too badly this year.

Obviously deep down I know this isn't going to be the case, as every year we’re cast as the ‘Dark Horses’ and generally fail to do anything other than collapse at the first hurdle, but I can't help feeling that.....well you know.....we might not get the wooden spoon this year.

I dont care anymore

someone get the pints in. I've brought crisps

Don't say it Spoons!

This year, I am physically stopping myself from being anything other than Corporal Jones about all of this. I just can't take it otherwise. The only way I can watch the tournament is on the working presumption that we are doooooomed against every team.

Any inches above the usual swimming pool of poo that we are able to climb will therefore be a bonus.

I cannot take the trauma of another Wales v Scotland 2010. As Jiffy said at the time "Scotland never ceases to find new ways to disappoint its fans".

Johnson has said all the right things. As has been stated earlier in the thread he isn't (in public anyway) making outlandish targets and or claims.

He is being pretty coy about his squad and I hope is sending out the message, go out, play your rugby and enjoy. We have the talent in the squad that the Scoreboard should take care of itself.

By that I mean Visser 3x Pro12 top try scorer, Maitland who was a sensational winger for the Crusaders, a pack of very powerful and mobile forwards, a threatening front row, decent kicking options, the bones of what could be a strong backline. We have more reason to be optimistic this year than most years.

However I'm being careful with my optimism, I have been burned with my optimisim for the last 10 years with Scottish Rugby.

Last year after watching Edinburgh demolish London Irish in the HC with the majestic partnership of Laidlaw and Blair running riot, all of a sudden we saw Cusiter and Parks starting against England and the Scotland A team destroying the Saxons.

I'm going to try and be a little spartan with my predictions and optimism this time round.

Why do we keep doing this??

I’m pretty sure we had similar, if not greater, optimising last year and we all know how that turned out.

Radge brings up a good point that brings back bad memories – that Parks selection really was the final nail in the coffin for Robinson as far as I was concerned.

Not getting the wooden spoon has to be the bare minimum – anything better than that is a bonus.

I envy you both (GC & Radge), I can’t help but feeling optimistic about it. It’s the same every year and it’s the same crushing blow when reality hits home. Still the hope is nice whilst it lasts.

Rowan shepherd.... i have a memory of him scoring an interception try against italy from our own half... he was seriously treading water at the end, plus the look on his face when he realised he had to stand up and then take the conversion... priceless! (as i recall a serious shank)

I still liked him as a player, pretty much in a lose lose situation following on from Big Gav.

We have a good chance of winning two this year, and a chance of perhaps one upset. I think if we at least win 2 then we can start rebuilding. I don't think we should be expecting a Wales type resurgence but after autumn it definitely can't get worse. We finally have a solid core in Glasgow players which I think has been missing. Sorry to Edinburgh fans but the team definitely reflects how poor they've been this season, hopefully Bradley will leave at the end of this season, it seems they've all but lost complete direction.

My prediction is we lose against England but by no more than 7 (I think our defence will be tightened after the last tests). Win against Italy by no more than 7, and sneak in a win against Ireland. Upset would perhaps be Wales, although if their form is like the Autumn it wouldn't be much of an upset. France will be too strong and beat us by 10.

I'd definitely class beating the current Ireland team as more of an upset than beating the current Welsh team Neily!

Loved that the training camp was supposed to be in Perth but Johnson just moved it to Glasgow to save five sixths of the squad having to travel.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'd definitely class beating the current Ireland team as more of an upset than beating the current Welsh team Neily!

haha fair shout, I'm not overly impressed with either but I guess Ireland would be the upset!

Italy is a must win without a doubt.

Wales are definitely there for the taking considering their ever more depleting squad (although a couple more backs out would help our cause) but keeping it tight at the front and starving the Welsh backs of any ball should see us through.

I'm massively fearful of the game against England. This could be a near record defeat....after which could completely destroy all hope for the rest of the tournament.

We'll lose to Ireland and France.

So 4 points is an improvement but still gash in the grand scheme of things.

We play Wales in the 2nd last game so I can either see them having their confidence completely shot or them riding high.

As far as I am aware they play Ireland at home, France away then Italy away so if they lose to Ireland first up I can see them struggling. If they however beat Ireland first up I can see them getting their confidence up and coming into our game on a high.

As ever the first game is so important!

Am I the only one that thinks the England game is one of our best chances at a win?

Last time we played the only differance was a Dan Parks charge down. The time before that in the RWC there was nothing between the 2 teams and the time before that same again and the time before that a draw.

England's tails are up, and rightly so. They cuffed the All Blacks and have no doubt earned a massive confidence boost.

However that could also be their downfall as they underestimate Scotland's capabilities under the new boss. Johnson did coach the Baa Baas to Victory at twickenham so knows how to do it.

I would actually fancy us to win this more than Beating Wales or Ireland at Murrayfield.

We'll be in our favoured postition of Underdogs and our cousins south of the border will be going in as favourites... like they did against Australia in the Autumn. I reckon we'll have parity up front, and for the 1st time that I can remember a credible attacking threat in the backs if Maitland, Visser and Hogg get the call.

Radge has definitely been on the happy pipe!

I'd like to agree with you Radge, but it is an awfully long time since we won at Twickenham, it is not that long since we beat Wales and Ireland at home.

Don't mistake my comment for over confidence. We could beat England and more than easily succumb to Italy next week.

Just sayin' it's an interesting set of circumstances that we are going into the 6N. Normally we have a reasonable Autumn series and hence earn our "dark horse" title.

The Autumn has been woeful for us this year. We also have a new coach who for the most part has picked the best players showing the greatest form.

It's almost like the twighlight zone.

I'd love to agree with you Radge, but history is not in our favour on this one.

Granted England could be over confident coming into this match, but at the same time they probably have every reason to be. Also its not like they're not confident most of the time of beating us, and look how that generally pans out at Twickenham.

I think with a new coach and a loss to Tonga in their last game as a point of reference, Scotland are slipping under the radar and could prove to be a banana skin for the leading contenders.

Yes, that's right. Scotland are the dark horses for the 2013 6N.

What Scotland have to do, as Johnson has alluded to, is improve greatly on their defence. He won't expect miracles on attack but if Scotland can move up quickly on defence and smother England, they will give themselves a much better chance. If they stand off and let England come at them like they allowed NZ to do last autumn, the English players will find confidence and will wreak havoc. Particularly if Tuilagi gets his head up.

So they must go for a battle of attrition and snuff out any English attack. Close down their space and place pressure on the line. That's when players like Visser can pounce on opportunities on the counter-attack. The players should simulate in training being in the twilight zone between being drunk and hungover and think of the English players as kebabs and set upon them as if their livers depended on it.

England's last game, they hammered NZ at home. Scotland lost to Tonga in their last match at home.

Just can't see past a loss against England. They have a good pack and their backline is far superior to ours. It'll be the same old story against them. Our pack either matches or betters theirs yet our backs can't do squat with the ball.

Our best bet is a close defeat whilst playing well which will keep confidence levels up for the Italy match.

Hammered? That's a bit strong isn't it? Personally, I'm convinced we'll beat the bl**dy English by 3 again. Jackson to slot an impossible pen from wide right on the half way line...

I hope they don't pull you into the dressing room Tattie Scones just before the game. Look at before the England NZ game. Not many gave England much of a chance. NZ side looked better on paper and had been undefeated all year.

I'm all for realism but reading Scotland's best bet is a close defeat and all fight taken out of you and it makes my Gregor clan blood boil inside! The English have Scotland outclassed. But are you going to let them know that when Scotland go into battle? Where's your spirit man?! Hopelessly outclassed. Small chance of success. What are we waiting for?

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I hope they don't pull you into the dressing room Tattie Scones just before the game. Look at before the England NZ game. Not many gave England much of a chance. NZ side looked better on paper and had been undefeated all year.

I'm all for realism but reading Scotland's best bet is a close defeat and all fight taken out of you and it makes my Gregor clan blood boil inside! The English have Scotland outclassed. But are you going to let them know that when Scotland go into battle? Where's your spirit man?! Hopelessly outclassed. Small chance of success. What are we waiting for?

Gimli has convinced me!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I hope they don't pull you into the dressing room Tattie Scones just before the game. Look at before the England NZ game. Not many gave England much of a chance. NZ side looked better on paper and had been undefeated all year.

I'm all for realism but reading Scotland's best bet is a close defeat and all fight taken out of you and it makes my Gregor clan blood boil inside! The English have Scotland outclassed. But are you going to let them know that when Scotland go into battle? Where's your spirit man?! Hopelessly outclassed. Small chance of success. What are we waiting for?

1. A decent coach
2. Decent 10, 12 & 13
3. 5 phases of play withought dropping the ball
4. At least a 30% success rate of scoring a try when getting into the opposition 22
5. Mentally stronger


would help........

I would rather have two wins and four points against Italy and Wales than a once a decade win against England followed by 4 losses.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I hope they don't pull you into the dressing room Tattie Scones just before the game. Look at before the England NZ game. Not many gave England much of a chance. NZ side looked better on paper and had been undefeated all year.

I'm all for realism but reading Scotland's best bet is a close defeat and all fight taken out of you and it makes my Gregor clan blood boil inside! The English have Scotland outclassed. But are you going to let them know that when Scotland go into battle? Where's your spirit man?! Hopelessly outclassed. Small chance of success. What are we waiting for?

1. A decent coach
2. Decent 10, 12 & 13
3. 5 phases of play withought dropping the ball
4. At least a 30% success rate of scoring a try when getting into the opposition 22
5. Mentally stronger


would help........

I would rather have two wins and four points against Italy and Wales than a once a decade win against England followed by 4 losses.

Didn't Frank Haddin deliver rare silverware at the first time of asking for Scottish rugby when they beat England at Murrayfield to win the Calcutta Cup trophy?

Doom and gloom seem to have well and truly taken their hold over you laddy. It's understandable. Your bleak realism may well match your natural surroundings. Unable to see any green shoots of recovery over a deathly pall of white snow. Too numb from the cold to feel the all too infrequent touch of the sun on your cheeks. The long nights endure and the short days offer little respite. Doubt invades your mind. Takes over.

Sleep is the only option. Perchance to dream. Ay, there's the rub...

gboycottnut wrote:

Didn't Frank Haddin deliver rare silverware at the first time of asking for Scottish rugby when they beat England at Murrayfield to win the Calcutta Cup trophy?

He did indeed. We beat both England and France in the 6 Nations - Hadden's first year in charge. We sunk like a guiness inspired turd thereafter under Hadden, but that was indeed a very promising start.

I don't rate our chances at Twickenham at all. The England pack is stronger and more mobile, I can't see us getting through Barritt and Tuilagi, and Farrell won't miss anything.

I think we'll beat Italy at Murrayfield, and I think we'll give Ireland and Wales a stern test, but I don't see us winning away from home.

Last game at Twickers (2011) - England 22 - 16 Scotland
Scotland line up: Paterson, Danielli, Ansbro, Slamont, Evans, Jackson, Lawson, Jacobsen, Ford, Low, Gray, Kellock, Hines, Barclay, Brown.

Last game at Murrayfield (2012) - Scotland 6 - 13 England
Scotland line up: Ramont, Jones, De Luca, Slamont, Evans, Parks, Cusiter, Jacobson, Ford, Murray, Gray, Hamilton, Strokosch, Rennie, Denton

I honestly believe that our current pack is comparable to those above (Grant is better than Chunk, Hamilton is playing better now than he was then, Brown is too) and that our backline is so much more talented.

Do we honestly have any reason to fear a big loss? Hard to tell, it really really is.

I suppose the real issues are that (a) England have improved a lot since then in a number of respects and (b) I would say that our defence was probably better back then with Steadman.

I'm not sure comparing our current squad against prior squads tells us much. More instructive comparing us against the likely England XV:

Marler vs Grant - even

Hartley vs MacArthur or Ford - England

Murray vs Cole - England

Launchbury vs Gray or Hamilton - even

Parling vs Kellock - England

Wood vs Brown - even

Robshaw vs Fusaro or Denton - England

Morgan vs Beattie or Denton - Scotland

Youngs vs Pyrgos or Laidlaw - England

Farrell vs Laidlaw or Jackson - England

Brown or Foden vs Visser - England (due to Visser's defensive frailty)

Barritt vs Scott - even

Tuilagi vs Lamont - England

Ashton vs Mailtland - even

Goode or Brown vs Hogg - England

I make that 9 England, 1 Scotland and 5 even.

I don't think it'll be a heavy loss, but I do think we'll lose, I reckon by roughly 10 points.

That's my head speaking.

My heart predicts a Maitland hat-trick on debut, Jackson's coming of age at 10, Euan Murray's total and utter destruction of Joe Marler and his stupid hair and Danny 'white boots' Care coming on after 60 minutes and throwing the mother of all intercept passes to Richie Gray and the big man, hair flowing in the wind like the God of all things, strides in untouched from his own half - Courtney Lawes trailing helplessly in his wake - for the score that brings up the Scotland half century of points, and their biggest win over England.......

I hope Evans starting both those games doesn't mean anything for this year's match. In my opinion he's not performed for Scotland, well I would say ever but that can't be the case. I'll say I can't remember him ever performing for us.

However, he seems to be picked a lot so I guess maybe I just miss the benefit of having him in the side and others far more knowledgeable than I see it.

FES, If your heart prediction actually happened I would probaby stop watching rugby, as nothing could compare and everything after would be a disappointment.

I'd be so happy I'd even agree to kiss Alex Salmond if that happened FES!

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'd be so happy I'd even agree to kiss Alex Salmond if that happened FES!

In which case I take it back!!

WEll my usual reaction is to want to kick him in the nuts so would have to take something special to change that - and Richie Gray running in from 50m on the way to a 50 point win would definitely hit the spot!

EWT Spoons wrote:FES, If your heart prediction actually happened I would probaby stop watching rugby, as nothing could compare and everything after would be a disappointment.

You've have heard what my heart says will happen to the Welsh when they visit Murrayfield.

Sneak preview: it involves Jiffy getting electrocuted as his tears run into his microphone....

Totally off topic but was watching QI last night and they were discussing irony – apparently there was a guy that was downgraded from death by electrocution to life imprisonment, but died soon after as he was electrocuted while sitting on a metal toilet! Apparently he was biting through a TV cable to try to fix it!

Anyway, back to rugby...

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'm not sure comparing our current squad against prior squads tells us much. More instructive comparing us against the likely England XV:

Marler vs Grant - even

Hartley vs MacArthur or Ford - England

Murray vs Cole - England

Launchbury vs Gray or Hamilton - even

Parling vs Kellock - England

Wood vs Brown - even

Robshaw vs Fusaro or Denton - England

Morgan vs Beattie or Denton - Scotland

Youngs vs Pyrgos or Laidlaw - England

Farrell vs Laidlaw or Jackson - England

Brown or Foden vs Visser - England (due to Visser's defensive frailty)

Barritt vs Scott - even

Tuilagi vs Lamont - England

Ashton vs Mailtland - even

Goode or Brown vs Hogg - England

I make that 9 England, 1 Scotland and 5 even.

I don't think it'll be a heavy loss, but I do think we'll lose, I reckon by roughly 10 points.

That's my head speaking.

So I should just open a vein now?

Seriously though - that's probably about right although you could argue you've given England the benefif of the doubt on a couple of these (the Wood, Brown/Foden, Ashton and Parling scores - the latter on the basis that I think Hamilton will start).

Hey ho. Let's see then. I think it will be England by 10 but that we'll get at least 2 tries. And there will be a punch up.

You heard it here first.

EWT Spoons wrote:I hope Evans starting both those games doesn't mean anything for this year's match. In my opinion he's not performed for Scotland, well I would say ever but that can't be the case. I'll say I can't remember him ever performing for us.

His best performance overall was probably THAT game against Wales and Murrayfield, and he scored a great chip and catch try against England one year.

I agree overall though, he has flattered to deceive. Problem is he has often been the sole threat in a backline including Parks and Morrison, and often the ball has been presented to him a metre above his head whilst he's standing still. He's not a bad broken field runner at all, but he was never physical enough to be a 13, and he more often than not ran away from support. I never felt he was on the same wavelength as his team mates, even at Glasgow. Not a bad individual player, but we never really had the players around him to maximise his talents, and he isn't really a team player.

The Squashed Goblin has scored one try for Castres in 26 outings which is approximately the same as his risible strike rate for Scotland (three tries in about 35 matches). I can't summon the energy for even a token woop.

George Carlin wrote:And there will be a punch up.

You heard it here first.

Will be interesting to see if Big Jim Hamilton can finish the job on Ashton started by Manu. I was always impressed that Ashton stayed on his feet (I'd have folded like a cheap suit), I'd like to see a few others have a crack at the "Ashton Challenge".

funnyExiledScot wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:FES, If your heart prediction actually happened I would probaby stop watching rugby, as nothing could compare and everything after would be a disappointment.

You've have heard what my heart says will happen to the Welsh when they visit Murrayfield.

Sneak preview: it involves Jiffy getting electrocuted as his tears run into his microphone....

I take my hasty comment from earlier back.

George Carlin wrote:And there will be a punch up.

You heard it here first.

Will be interesting to see if Big Jim Hamilton can finish the job on Ashton started by Manu. I was always impressed that Ashton stayed on his feet (I'd have folded like a cheap suit), I'd like to see a few others have a crack at the "Ashton Challenge".

A rampaging Beattie smashing him out the way to score a try would be good viewing.

I hope there is some niggle - god knows Scotland need to harden up. They're way too nice on the pitch and getting the English roughed up would hopefully cause a few mistakes to creep in on their part.

I always find a way to be unrealistically optimistic. This time I've been using an example from recent history.

Last year we went through a series of defeats, ending in one of the worst performances I have ever seen from a Scotland side. Three months later we travelled to play a strong side who we hadn't beaten away from home in 30 years. We came away with an 8-9 win.

It just goes to show how quickly fortunes can change, the Italy defeat didn't stop us beating Australia and the Tonga defeat will have no impact on the England game (nor will England's latest win). The farce that was Tonga unfortunately has overshadowed a lot of good things we did in the autumn (3 tries against NZ, dominating territory and possession against SA and should have won). But there's no reason we can't improve on those performances against England and give them a good game.

In moments of clarity I know none of this means anything. Our performances in the Heineken Cup this year have been sobering to say the least, so I'm not expecting a win and wouldn't be overly upset if we lost by a couple of scores. But I know as the Calcutta Cup match approaches I will keep finding ways to build up my expectations in time for them to be crushed!

I don't rate our chances at Twickenham at all. The England pack is stronger and more mobile, I can't see us getting through Barritt and Tuilagi, and Farrell won't miss anything.

You don't have to go thru them - just round them. Similarly they can't go round players - only thru them ( to oversimplify)

IMo the centres is the weakness in the lack of creativity in the England side. However the right tactics need a thumping tackler to defend against them and a twinkletoed runner to attack agaisnt them. Slamont and Hogg in the Scots centre?

I don't really have anything to add, I just want to be part of this award winning thread.

12 pages??

'Mon the Scots!

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