Scotland squad for the 6 Nations

First topic message reminder :

Scotland squad for training camp in Glasgow (January 20-23) ahead of RBS 6 Nations Championship:

Backs: Peter Murchie*, Stuart Hogg, Sean Maitland*, Tommy Seymour*, Sean Lamont (all Glasgow Warriors), Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby), Max Evans (Castres), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Dunbar* Peter Horne*, Duncan Weir, Ruaridh Jackson (all Glasgow Warriors), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Henry Pyrgos, Sean Kennedy* (both Glasgow Warriors) and Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby).

Forwards: Alasdair Dickinson (Sale Sharks), Ryan Grant, Dougie Hall, Pat MacArthur* (all Glasgow Warriors), Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors), Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby), Moray Low, Alastair Kellock (both Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Sale Sharks), Jim Hamilton (Gloucester), Grant Gilchrist* (Edinburgh Rugby), Kelly Brown (Saracens), Robert Harley, Ryan Wilson* (both Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby), Richie Vernon (Sale Sharks), Chris Fusaro* (Glasgow Warriors).

* = Uncapped.

Invited to be with the squad as they recover from injury: Chris Cusiter, John Barclay and Jon Welsh (all Glasgow Warriors) Nick De Luca and Ross Rennie (both Edinburgh Rugby) and Scott Lawson (London Irish).

Note to editors: Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) will miss the camp for family reasons as his wife is expecting their second child.

Is Horn the new messiah?

jimbopip wrote:Is Horn the new messiah?

nah, its the Vernonator. He can play 10 dont you know.

Imperialbigdave wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Is Horn the new messiah?

nah, its the Vernonator. He can play 10 dont you know.

Johnnie Beattie's got quite a boot, so he's already better than Jackson or Laidlaw.

And as for Bradley his contract's up at the end of this year so I doubt that'll be renewed. They've surely got to employ a Scot like Chalmers or Graham, they've not got much to lose.

17? fantastic display chaps - at least some scots can play a good game

TJ wrote:17? fantastic display chaps - at least some scots can play a good game

It's nearly 400 more than any other six nations team, it bodes well for the tournament, as does the Glasgow performance. Out of interest did any of the Edinburgh players come out with any credit?

123456789 wrote:

TJ wrote:17? fantastic display chaps - at least some scots can play a good game

It's nearly 400 more than any other six nations team, it bodes well for the tournament, as does the Glasgow performance. Out of interest did any of the Edinburgh players come out with any credit?

Bar Greig Tonks who was again confident under the high ball in horrible conditions, and Cairns/Scott in midfield at points, a resounding no...

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:

123456789 wrote:

TJ wrote:17? fantastic display chaps - at least some scots can play a good game

It's nearly 400 more than any other six nations team, it bodes well for the tournament, as does the Glasgow performance. Out of interest did any of the Edinburgh players come out with any credit?

Bar Greig Tonks who was again confident under the high ball in horrible conditions, and Cairns/Scott in midfield at points, a resounding no...

From a Scotland perspective, how did Visser, Scott, Laidlaw, Gilchrist etc. do?

Visser was quiet. Didn't see much ball but then again no wingers did. Ashton had 2 touches 2 tries...

Scott had a decent game. Tried to be his usual self and straighten the line, but little support and a lot of kicks meant he wasn't as involved as he usually is.

Laidlaw was good with his little chips but too often kicked away possession and his forwards were always on the back foot so had little platform to build an attack.

Gilchrist was quiet, decent effort in the loose but poor lineouts...

No one else really to comment on, bar Tonks looking good, McInally was quiet and Cross came on with 20 to go and looked alright in the scrums.

Tonks really should get called up.

MacKnocked-on wrote:Tonks really should get called up.

I'm starting to wonder if he wants to be picked for Scotland, perhaps given his form Mr Lancaster's been on the phone and told him he's in with a shout but I doubt it given Goode, Brown and Foden are already ahead of him.

[quote="123456789"]

MacKnocked-on wrote:Tonks really should get called up.

I'm starting to wonder if he wants to be picked for Scotland,

The same question could be asked of most of the Edinburgh squad at present......

Visser did make a tackle from what I remeber

Visser was anonymous, and for the 3rd game running Dougie Fife has been the better winger in an Edinburgh jersey.

Visser needs to harden up, protect his wing and increase his workrate by about 80%. What was he doing for those Ashton scores? Compare that to Fife's heroic effort in denying Brad Barritt.

Loved Lee Jones' cameo. That guy just can't do anything right this season, he's having a stinker. Needs to rebuild his confidence somewhere else. That would be a good use of the 7's in my view.

I think visser needs to be dropped to the bench for seymour if I'm honest, we talk about the need to score tries, and yes when Visser is on song no-one can touch him but at least Seymour can defend. It's concerning if Visser can't tackle one of the surely firm favourites for England wing. If we want to win this our main option is to grind it out and if Visser is leaking tries he needs to sort his defence out before he can rejoin Scotland starting XV imo.

Visser has made a few good tackles recently to be fair and I mean both trys by Ashton were not really his fault, just crafty play by Saracens. He needs ball to do anything useful and it aint gonna happen the way Edinburgh are playing this season. I'm confident he'll do much better in 6N which is why i think he should start. But if he doesn't show up against England then perhaps a short bench warming session would do him some good.

Right I wasn’t able to sleep last night so had a good long think about the England game, and have decided to make some changes to my initial preferred XV. I know you will all of course be excited to read my thoughts anyway, but this also gives us a new chance to work towards 1000 posts and debate everything over and over again! Hell it’s Monday – they aren’t productive work days anyway.

So I think this pretty much needs to be the team:

1 Grant
2 McArthur
3 Reverend
4 Gray
5 Kellock
6 Brown (C)
7 Beattie
8 Denton
9 Laidlaw (k)
10 Jackson
11 Visser
12 Horne/Scott
13 Scott/Horne
14 Maitland
15 Hogg

Bench: Dickinson (no one else really), Ford, Low, Hamilton, Harley/Strokosh, Pyrgos, Dunbar, Lamont

And here is my reasoning:

Forwards

Ford hasn’t played in weeks, McArthur is fit and in form – he has to start. I’d still have Ford on the bench though. With McArthur starting I think we need big Al in there for some set piece familiarity and to take the pressure off McArthur. McAurthur’s debut will be helped greatly by having 6 current/former Glasgow players looking at him when he’s throwing in. Plus in Ryan Grant we have a decent scrummager so hopefully won’t miss the extra bulk Hamilton gives. The final point in big Al is that I think we need him in the trenches against England. The man is such an icon for the Glasgow team and think he can do the same for Scotland – taking no crap, dishing out ‘advice’ to the England players (as per Hartley at the weekend), taking pressure off the young guys etc. – I think we need that from him.

Back row wise well I am coming round to the idea of playing Brown, Denton and Beattie, but have gone for Beattie at 7 instead of Denton purely because he has played a few games there for Montpellier recently. It is not ideal but that back row would be a sight to behold if we can get them on the front foot. Slightly worried that we’d have 2 show ponies in Denton and Beattie and they spend too much time standing in the backline looking for a big carry, but hopefully Ryan can point out to them that we need them hitting rucks as well.

So I think that is a tough pack – good set piece, ball carriers a plenty (the stand off will be loving having Gray, Denton and Beattie to chose who to pass to!!) and some tough nuts in there to take it to the English.

Backs

I know there’s doubts over whether his all-round game is up to scratch for International level, but that try has swayed it for me – I think we’ve got to start Horne. His confidence will be sky high after that and he is a good hard worker and I’m sure could cope at this level. Yes he’s on the small side but so are D’Arcy and BoD and they do pretty good at this level. I’d pair him with Jackson to keep that Glasgow link. It’s not ideal having two 12’s in the centres but I’m not overly fussed who takes which shirt. With Jackson starting I think we need Laidlaw at 9. Mainly for his goal kicking, but also for his leadership, drive and determination which we will need against the English. Let’s just hope his scrum half basics will be up to scratch.

Subs

If fit I think Ford should be there – he is still our best hooker, but is lacking gametime and confidence. Dropping him will show him he’s not undroppable and he’ll hopefully come on and go all Sean Lamont on us – have a stormer because he was so angry at being dropped. I’ve chosen Harley/Strokosh because I don’t know who will be fit/available. Whoever is should be on the bench for some extra grunt for the last 20. Backs wise I’ve not gone for a 10 on the bench as I’ll have Laidlaw covering. Lamont will hopefully be fit and raring to go when he comes on, and I think Dunbar should be introduced and given his chance – he’s not been a regular this season granted but looked good when he came on for Glasgow at the weekend. He’s a big, hard running centre and I think he could do well for us.


So there we go – a team full of leaders in Brown, Kellock and Laidlaw, a mix of youth and experience and most importantly – players playing on form and full of confidence (well, most of them!).

RDW, the only thing I would possibly change is Kellock for Hamilton and I would be keen to Nail Scott on at 12 and Horne at 13.

Otherwise I agree 100%.

It’s a tough one choosing between Kellock and Hamilton but I just think we need leaders in there – and big Al is so iconic for Glasgow and has never let Scotland down – particularly against the English.

Yes Hamilton is Gloucester captain but he gives away too many penalties for my liking and think he is more likely to lamp someone and get carded than Kellock is.

Plus Kellock will be riling Hartley up all game after the weekend!

I wouldn’t be disappointed with Hamilton, but personal preference would be Kellock to give McArthur familiarity and give him some help, in what will be a bloody difficult lineout battle.

My feeling is Visser should play,despite not being the best defensive option, as a serious try scoring threat he will attract the opposition defenders and therefore open up opportunities for others. The question is who should play centre, Scott and Horne are both 12s (and former 10s) and I'm not sure Scott has the real pace required for 13 but maybe I'm wrong. Still think that Lamont will play 13 against England and the younger players will come in later during the 6N.

I don’t think we should rush to shoehorn Horne into the side. Yes, it was a great try, but I don’t want to move Scott to accommodate him, and Horne hasn’t played at 13 this season.

I’d like to see him on the bench if Slamont isn’t fit and Dunbar starts at 13.

The rest of that team looks good, RDW. I really do worry about Dickinson on the bench though. Why can’t they call up Gordon Reid?

RDW - I like your team, but I agree with others who have posted since that I don't think Horne should start. Great try from him at the weekend and I think we should have him on the bench to try something similar. He came on around the hour mark and against tired legs made an incredible break. I'd start Scott and if fit Lamont/Dunbar (I can't bring myself to have Evans here) then around the hour either take one of them off and move Scott over or take Matt off and bring horne on.

This obviously all depends on how the game is going and not made because it was preplanned. I hate that.

Captain_Sensible wrote:I don’t think we should rush to shoehorn Horne into the side. Yes, it was a great try, but I don’t want to move Scott to accommodate him, and Horne hasn’t played at 13 this season.

I’d like to see him on the bench if Slamont isn’t fit and Dunbar starts at 13.

The rest of that team looks good, RDW. I really do worry about Dickinson on the bench though. Why can’t they call up Gordon Reid?

Gordy's scrummaging has not been the best this season (although it's been adequate). I agree that I constantly feel we must be able to do better than Dickinson. However, I'd rather have an internationally experienced poor scrummager than an inexperienced one.

Can we honestly say that Dunbar has been playing well enough to elbow Schlong out of the way? You can say what you want about Lamont (and I've said plenty) but he does give us 'go forward', has tenacious defensive and really wants to win. His failings are obvious but similarly he probably has scored more tries for us than any other member of the back division and there's a reason for that.

George Carlin wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:I don’t think we should rush to shoehorn Horne into the side. Yes, it was a great try, but I don’t want to move Scott to accommodate him, and Horne hasn’t played at 13 this season.

I’d like to see him on the bench if Slamont isn’t fit and Dunbar starts at 13.

The rest of that team looks good, RDW. I really do worry about Dickinson on the bench though. Why can’t they call up Gordon Reid?

Gordy's scrummaging has not been the best this season (although it's been adequate). I agree that I constantly feel we must be able to do better than Dickinson. However, I'd rather have an internationally experienced poor scrummager than an inexperienced one.

Can we honestly say that Dunbar has been playing well enough to elbow Schlong out of the way? You can say what you want about Lamont (and I've said plenty) but he does give us 'go forward', has tenacious defensive and really wants to win. His failings are obvious but similarly he probably has scored more tries for us than any other member of the back division and there's a reason for that.

Will Slamont be fit for the Twickers match? I thought he had a rib niggle - he certainly hasn't played for quite a while, so even if he's fit he might not be on form. Of the other choices in the squad, I'd have Dunbar at 13 in a heartbeat.

On a side note, I've created an article (more like War and Peace) on the topic of turning around losing teams, with a focus on Edinburgh.

https://www.606v2.com/t39682-how-do-you-turn-around-a-losing-team-edinburgh-example#1799048

It is fairly depressing reading but any input would be welcome.

Anyone know if we have any new injury worries after the weekend's matches? I know Jackson went off with a rib knock but any others?

RDW - surely you can't possibly advocate Scott being shifted to 13? You've seen as much as I have that he isn't effective in that role. He doesn't have the pace required nor the instinct to pick the lines. He's a far better creator than finisher. Players should be playing off him and not the other way around.

As for Horne, it really was a fine try, but after an entire season of mediocrity from Horne at 12, I'm not ready (a) to move Scott to 13 to accommodate him, or (b) play him at 13 where he's barely played this season (he's almost exclusively been at 12 this season for Glasgow).

For me the options at 13 from the squad are:

1. Evans - although he's really a winger and has never impressed me at 13 in an international jersey, so no thanks.

2. Dunbar - is he fit? Question mark over fitness.

3. Lamont - is he fit? Question mark over fitness.

My preference is Lamont, followed by Dunbar.

Personally I'd have had Grove in the squad and he would now be my first choice starter, but I'm not as wise and astute a selector as Scott Johnson.

The other possibility is Hogg at 13, and Maitland (or Tonks were he selected) at 15, but you run the risk of ruining a form player by doing that, so my preference is to use Hogg at 15, and just go with Lamont or Dunbar at 13.

No huge issues with Kellock over Hamilton, although I dispute the phrase "he has never let Scotland down". Yes, he has. His performances over the years have invariably been mediocre, with only the odd piece of skill to the contrary. On form though, he deserves to be in contention, and he's been playing some of his best stuff this season. I also think he'll start because Dean Ryan rates him.

Well I think Maitland has a bruised ankle having tripped over his own feet, and all of the Edinburgh pack are sporting sore backsides having had their arses handed to them by the Sarries pack so Cross and Gilchrist might be needing some recovery time.

Wrong thread I think....

Responding to Pat's question..

Fair enough......

Didn't notice any injuries in the Edinburgh game.

Was also meant to be a joke - evidently not a very good one!

I'm sorry.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well I think Maitland has a bruised ankle having tripped over his own feet, and all of the Edinburgh pack are sporting sore backsides having had their arses handed to them by the Sarries pack so Cross and Gilchrist might be needing some recovery time.

Surely that's a worthy junction point for page 18?

Here's a curve ball - Maitland at 13!

Seems to posses enough awareness (for a Scottish player) to play in the position.

cp10 wrote:Here's a curve ball - Maitland at 13!

Seems to posses enough awareness (for a Scottish player) to play in the position.

Or Jackson with Weir at ten,

Ah good - we're getting back into the crazy talk stage!

Crazy talk means we get closer to the magic 1000

Ha fair enough - the crazy talk is the most entertaining kind of talk anyway!

I think Maitland has played 13 before, but I wouldn't have him starting there against England in his first cap.
Moving Jackson to either 12 or 13 has been talked about for a while, but as far as I can see he's the form 10 at the moment (unless this injury keeps him out for a bit) so we should keep him there. He's played at 10 for Scotland when he's not been playing well, enough times, lets give him a chance when he is.

I'd go with Jackson at 10, Scott at 12, and either Lamont or Dunbar at 13.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ah good - we're getting back into the crazy talk stage!

In fairness Maitland at 13 isn't the craziest thing we've covered on this thread!
Also speaking of playing players out of position anyone remember Mallet playing Bergamasco at scrum half?

GLove39 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ah good - we're getting back into the crazy talk stage!

In fairness Maitland at 13 isn't the craziest thing we've covered on this thread!
Also speaking of playing players out of position anyone remember Mallet playing Bergamasco at scrum half?

I remember that failed experiment. What was he thinking with that selection?

I think Maitland at 13 would be a mistake. We need someone who's able to take Tuilagi on straight away and make an impression. Let him know that he'll not get it his own way. A Lamont crunching tackle as soon as he got the ball in hand would do the trick. I'd stick with Lamont starting if fit, Dunbar if not.

9 Laidlaw
10 Jackson
11 Visser
12 Scott
13 Lamont
14 Maitland
15 Hogg

21 Pyrgos
22 Heathcote
23 Dunbar

We could nearly have a crazy talk Scotland XV, although Vernon would occupy a few positions

Why not play a flank forward such as Kelly Brown at number 12 or 13 to give physical presence to a Scottish backline which lacks muscle.

gboycottnut wrote:Why not play a flank forward such as Kelly Brown at number 12 or 13 to give physical presence to a Scottish backline which lacks muscle.

Oh Lord…

gboycottnut wrote:Why not play a flank forward such as Kelly Brown at number 12 or 13 to give physical presence to a Scottish backline which lacks muscle.

To be fair, if England can play a prop at 13 then anything is possible!

123456789 wrote:We could nearly have a crazy talk Scotland XV, although Vernon would occupy a few positions

And I suspect Brendan Laney and Rob Dewey would crop up quite frequently.

gboycottnut wrote:Why not play a flank forward such as Kelly Brown at number 12 or 13 to give physical presence to a Scottish backline which lacks muscle.

Cue reference to how this was done by England in 1987...

Pat MacArthur went off on Saturday with a sore looking rib injury and Ryan Wislon was hirpling about before he went off .

Pat was a foot injury. Was hopping around with ice over his foot. But he looked pretty happy, didn't complain too much to me! Although he did tell a bit of a porkie last time he hurt his foot. Hence why he was out for 2 months and Toonie refuses to let him go see the consultant orthopod by himself again...

Ryan not sure about but he didn't look in too much pain to be fair so will probably be fine!

Thanks UiG. Wee Pat was bloody excellent (again!) on Saturday