It didn't take long...

Roger hinted it may be over and out for the one of the Regions. Can all 4 survive?

Here's what I wrote when the PRGB was set up:
Everybody talks about common purposes, but give it a few weeks and the old cracks will appear.

Sadly, it's wasn't the most controversial prophesy or the most surprisingly bourn out.

Mr Lewis chose the festive season to drop his "three Regions minimum" bombshell. Just before the four region structure saw two sell out crowds for the derby matches. It also came just weeks after the fanfare of the establishment of the PRGB. All talk of working together sits uncomfortably with this public statement.

The radical plan of course would be the establishment of a Valleys region, the merger of Newport and Cardiff as East Wales and the Scarlets and Ospreys as West Wales. RGC1404 in the North would be a development region and tasked with pushing for a place in the Pro11.

The cataclysmic events required for that to end up the plan have not and will not happen. It would be risky (resistance will be huge) expensive (the WRU could probably not afford to set up a Valleys region without a serious change of priorities) and far too sensible in the long term.

What of my own team, the Scarlets? Does Parc Y Scarlets ensure that they can not be allowed to fail? After watching their ineffective pack being mauled alive by the ferocious Ospreys on St Stephen's day, I'm not so sure.

Two points arise for me. The Second place in the Rabo flatters the Scarlets, who have been woeful in Europe since half time in Clermont. And, as much as I hate to say it, the existence of the Scarlets merely holds the jewel in the Regional Crown, the Ospreys, back.

The Ospreys beat Toulouse and demolished the Scarlets. They have shown precious little of that form since the RDS last season.

It's as if beating the Scarlets in the Liberty on Boxing Day is actually their top priority. When Paul James left his fondest moment was not captaining the Ospreys to a defeat of Bath and then Australia within a week when half his team were away with Wales, but playing when they smashed the Scarlets 60-17. Take the Scarlets away and the Ospreys may actually concentrate on Europe.

That leads to the more obvious point, the drain on the Ospreys from having a stubborn little club like Llanelli on their doorstep. The better Scarlets players would disperse to the other Regions and the Ospreys would be at the front of the cue.

Scarlets fans would boycott any merged team, of course they would. But then Leicester would come to town for a Heineken Cup crunch match:

"But Dai mun, I thought you were not ever going to support the West Wales Scarlet Ospreys, ever, ever, Amen"

"I'm going to support Leicester..."

What the Scarlets have done with the resources they have is commendable and they are starting to turn the corner. We should not read too much into one result, but I fear the future if the WRU take a hit in revenue (Wales Ireland 6 Nation tickets are in plentiful supply) and the Scarlets fail to make real strides, they may be the ones for the chop.

But what of the Dragons, how can they survive? Well, they could box clever and reach out to the rest of Gwent and the Valleys. Make themselves indispensable, as Cardiff seem reluctant to do so. It seems the Blues are happy to rely on their Capital City team status to ward off any threat. The depressing thing is that they are probably right.

The Dragons have much more chance of attracting the Valleys fans than the Scarlets. Would they be flexible enough to do so, or would 'Newport' cast too much shadow?

So, as this is a public statement by Mr Lewis, the only sensible conclusion is that the WRU and Regions are not pulling together even after the setting up of the PRGB. It has been deemed appropriate to "put about a bit of stick" in public; but where's the carrot?

What's Roger said now? Maybe he's been at the Xmas sherry. Although he doesn't make any sense when sober either.

He said that two regions was too few, that three was the minimum.

Forget your radical plan for a moment Glas, because that's all it is, just a radical!

Good old Rog hinted at reducing the Regions to three, with one as a development, and to give some Regions more funding than the others. The WRU were meant to have a hand in running half of the Dragons (the team likely to get axed should it come to this) and they've done porthcawl with it. He must be the dumbest guy in Wales to even consider this. It's a big step backwards IMO. We need to keep four and push for a fifth (RGC).

Glas a du wrote:He said that two regions was too few, that three was the minimum.

But he said that four is ideal.

The way I am seeing it, at the moment the Dragons (most likely to be demoted to developement) currently have two players in the Welsh Squad. Seeing as Lydiate has said that he is leaving at the end of the season, and Faletau has been linked with a move elsewhere, it is possible that they will have no welsh squad members at the start of next season. So it would be easy for the WRU to ship some of their better players else where, if needed, and to bring in some of the fringe players from the other regions to build up a 'developement' squad. Then the funding to the Dragons can be cut, as most of their players will be on developement contracts, and a proportion of that can be handed to the other regions in part of a new agreement which gives the WRU more control over them.

That way Roger Lewis can say that he has managed to ensure that nobody loses their region, he can say he has increased funding to the regins for their HEC squads, and also he can tell the WRU that they have more control over the regions and are spending less money.

That's ideal Morg, but it's becoming obvious that the money is unlikely to go around given the pathetic Pro12.

Four is ideal if one is a development region. In other words if the three top regions want more money they have to persuade the fourth to take a cut.

We really need to maintain at least 4 regions. Money isn’t that tight at the WRU, maybe the speed that we're paying off the stadium debt is too quick. We need four regions and need to be looking at professionalising RGC within 10/12 years. I still believe that this regional set up can work.

They've 'run their half' for years and not helped us bring in any players so I can't see them doing it. By development he means let the Dragons bring through some good players and allow them to be nicked by other teams. Pretty much what has been happening for years. If the WRU did their job they could have brought some Welsh players back to Wales to strengthen the Dragons. They should do it for all four teams.

And btw SS, the Dragons have had more internationals than that. They also have some more capable players now but there has always been a great reluctance to pick players from the most hated area of Wales.

as an outsider i think wales can't disband any of the four and they are all growing.

the only ones i worry about are the blues as the CAP was the magic pill but i don't think its helped. Also dargons don't have any fair weather fans due to results but Blue mights and see their attendances drop.

Is there any underage competitions for the regions including North wales.
So say an un14 competition between the five regions that people can support with their kids.

Brendan wrote:Is there any underage competitions for the regions including North wales.
So say an un14 competition between the five regions that people can support with their kids.

The 5 regions have development sides that start from U-16's. (RCG being the 5th). The Blues have two squads, North and South. So it’s a 6 team league until Under 18's where the Blues have a unified team. Under that age group I’m pretty sure that it’s all clubs and schools.

Does Cardiff have north and south just becasue they have so many good players or is it really cardiff and "valley/ponty" team

They do it because of the player numbers and it allows them to selects from a larger player base that has played regional rugby at U-16 level. It has typically worked as we have had the strongest regional U-16's and U18's teams. It's just a lot of our players don't seem to make that step up to the professional team. Go figure.

Yeah and do the math!





I'll get my coat...

Glas an interesting topic, did you see the Andrew Hore interview at HT, in our match the other day, he more or less told the Dodger to keep his mouth shut about what is going on in the WRU/Regional meetings, there has been at least one already, the Dodger also said in his Sunday Times interview that these were his own personal opinions, the general feeling on our forum (Ospreys) is that the Dodger is not getting his own way in those meetings, and he is trying to preempt any findings that he doesn't agree with.
I said on another topic on here, that as far as the WRU are concerned the Dodger is doing a good job in fetching in the money, it is Dai Pickering as the Rugby man is useless as he is allowing the Dodger to spend the money as well, it should be spent more effectively.
To me Regional Rugby is improving year on year with the Gogledd area slowly coming through, instead of wasting money on floodlights, exhorbitant amounts given to junior clubs to PAY players in Division 3,4 and 5 it would be better spent getting all these clubs to put in proper accounts for Travel money for mainly under age Rugby, and give more money to the Regions, so they can play on a more level playing field with their French and English adversaries.

Which is all true and very sensible. Hence, will never happen.

Well my pont of view may not be the popular one, but professional sport starts and finishes with money and there simply is not enough in Wales to spread between 4 regions. Talk of expanding to five is absurd. We don't have the fan base to support 4 regions spread across less than 100 miles of geography.

We should reduce to three pro regions with a development region and a stronger premiership. I have been a season ticket holder at the dragons for years but I recognise that we simply don't generate the money to compete at the highest level. The pro game needs restructuring and the WRU should be leading it, unfortunately they seem to lack the courage to drive any long term change.

If we want to have a pro game in Wales that can compete in Europe then we have to scale according to the money and talent available. We have it wrong at the moment which should be obvious to anyone watching. The season has served up the worst quality regional and national rugby since the game went professional.

Surely the answer is to make the regions you have more profitable.... increase gates, sell more merchandise, sell more season tickets, improve the Pro12 etc.

Yes it is. It really is.

Notch wrote:Surely the answer is to make the regions you have more profitable.... increase gates, sell more merchandise, sell more season tickets, improve the Pro12 etc.

I wish I thought that was possible, I'm just not convinced that it is achievable. We are no longer a rugby first Nation. I hope I'm proved wrong.

Irish fans will attend the opening of an envelope. Welsh fans are very fickle. That's a fact of life. The Pro12 doesn't cut the mustard for us.

Glas a du wrote:Irish fans will attend the opening of an envelope. Welsh fans are very fickle. That's a fact of life. The Pro12 doesn't cut the mustard for us.

The HEC doesn't either.

Success brings with it fans. You'll always have your core supporters who'll turn up no matter what. When your region begins to have success or play an exiting brand of rugby, it brings with it people further afield.

Blues have had big crowds at the MS in the HEC due to their success on the field. Many probably hadn't attended a game all season, but a big game and the success on the field brought in new 'fans'.

Similar to the O's at the back end of the season, bringing in in 10,000 crowds due to their form on the pitch and the way they played with running rugby and of course, Shane's swansong.

One thing pulls the crowds more than anything else, the fear of missing out.

Glas a du wrote:One thing pulls the crowds more than anything else, the fear of missing out.

Glas, I wouldn't mind the English and French winning the HC money battle, as long as the team splits are something along the lines of 8,5,5 or 8,6,6 and then possibly we get into bed with Sky for Rabo games and have less games televised for more money, I live in the Eastern extremities of Ospreylia and the pathetic excuses people come out with not to attend Rabo games and the final point is always, well we can always watch it on the box, if the right deal can be wrought from Sky, something like they already have with the ERFU of only televising a couple of games a week and a highlights programme can only benefit the Regional Teams

The fact of the matter is the Dragons have been rubbish for most/all of the the 10 years and produced so little for the Wales team. Dispite this, I still believe there should be a minimun of 5 teams even if two teams get less funding than the other three. Just look at Pontypridd, with next to no funding their team is probably as good if not better than the Dragons. Money does not produce results but it does help.

I believe the four so called regions should lose their premier clubs i.e., Swansea, Llanelli,Cardiff and Newport and the money saved should go towards a N Wales team and get teams like Pontypool back in a 12 team premiership. The players from the disbanded clubs could join the new regions/existing premier teams to raise the standard in that league.

Another advantage of getting shot of Newport and Cardiff the Blues and the Dragons may have a better playing surface. The East Wales grounds are a disgrace, I keep hearing from my Dragons friends no other grounds in Gwent are suitable to play rugby, they can't be worse than the Parade the ground is not flat and the drainage is poor i.e., no better than other playing surfaces.

I hope nobody discusses your post, as you lose all credibility with your Pontypridd part and then add to it by saying bring Pontypool back in your next paragraph. You just show yourself to be barking mad there.

Glas a du wrote:Irish fans will attend the opening of an envelope. Welsh fans are very fickle. That's a fact of life. The Pro12 doesn't cut the mustard for us.

Of course it's ridiculously short-sighted. Those 5000 fans at Rodney Parade every week aren't going to be at Cardiff the season after the Dragons cease to exist. Getting rid of one or two sides isn't going to make the others viable in the long run. You're just going to narrow the support base of regional rugby as a whole. Less people invested in the regions, less financial support for them, less Welsh rugby fans who give a shoite about professional rugby outside the Six Nations.

It's quite amusing to see this plan proposed after two rounds of Welsh derbies. I'm guessing they much better attendance and atmosphere than usual. I'm guessing those were the games that people who don't normally go regional games went to i.e. the single biggest marketing opportunities the regions are going to get. Less regional teams, less derbies. Less fixtures Welsh fans care about and less opportunity to make them care about the rest of them.

Maybe you need the English- but they sure as hell don't need you! Not one bit.

Long term I just feel the way the regions are being run is increasing the dependence of Regional rugby on the national side not decreasing it. From the outside it's like watching a slow motion car crash. It just baffles me how the short-sightedness seems to run down every level. From the CEO right down to the clubs and grassroots.

Notch, what 'CEO short sightedness' do you see from the outside? Or are you guessing? How do you know about the sightedness of the CEOs, unless you have inside information?

Just to add; sorry Notch, didn't mean to sound like I was having a go! Just that I thought it was a sweeping statement about inside knowledge of the regions' business plans and CEO intentions, plus an inside knowledge of all grass roots rugby in Wales??? Just wondered how you could have so many contacts!

I don't have contacts, but you see what you see from the outside.

What I'm saying is you've got Roger Lewis who seems to have no idea how to make regional rugby profitable or viable, the WRU who undermine the regions at every turn for the cash cow of the national side, regions that actually refused central contracts I believe (!?) meaning they can't hold on to their international players (i.e. largest marketing assets), superclub regions who are only now doing too little too late to disassociate themselves from their previous club identity and move towards being genuine regional sides and semi-pro club sides who refuse to work with their region over old grievances about how regionalisation was handled.

The amount of parochial infighting you've got over there actually makes the Irish system look professional in comparison, which is nuts because we certainly have our own problems!

You would think the WRU would realise that if they could keep their best players in the regional system they could market the sides more effectively but an agreement can't be reached with the regions for compensation whilst they are on international duty meaning offers from overseas can't be matched.

You would think the regions would realise that doing whatever it takes improve relations with all club sides within their region would eventually get more bums on seats and the already existing infrastructure of clubs is perfect for their purposes; if you can get busloads of guys leaving from clubhouses for a night out at the regional rugby at a healthy discount as a club member... instead you have certain clubhouses which seem to be full of rugby fans who wouldn't spit on their local region if it was on fire.

It just seems like nobody thinks. Everybody has a grudge against somebody and nothing gets done.

Notch

Although your pretty accurate you underestimate Lewis, he has no grudes, he has no agenda but to do what he was brought in to do... make money! And if that means ultimately sacrificing the club game then hey ho, he's still done his jobs.

PS the regions didn't refuse central contracts, they declined the offer put to them, central contracts if they give up their guarentee'd funding, which equated to them getting less money and giving up any control they had to their international players!

Regarding downgrading a region, of course Lewis wants to, he'll save 90% of that funding cut, because the extra funding to the other regbions will be minimal!!

This is just another step toward the death of the club game in Wales.

He's a business man. If everyone I see commentating here went to watch their region every week without fail he'd have no real cause to pull the plug. But he lacks vision. His thinking is short term bean counting on top of years and years of it. What he's doing is damage limitation. Strong regional rugby in Wales will make your national team stronger and more financially viable.

Similar practice in the SRU has brought them to the brink as well- the IRFU has plenty of problems but at least we have switched on, intelligent CEOs at provincial level now the era of Mike Reid at Ulster is long over, and thankfully so. Our problem is we need Scotland, Italy and Wales to be strong as we can't stand alone. The Pro12 needs more than the Irish. Unfortunately things are looking grim.

This kind of shoite also undermines our negotiating position at the ERC summits. You would have thought the WRU would at least have had the wit to come out with this latest bombshell after the new format was decided.

Sorry notch but your about 26.2 miles off there mate!!

Firstly I beleive that the huge majority here are all involved within their clubs/regions, sadly a number are not represented by any professional outfit so there money goes to local clubs, junior sections etc, I think a lot of people in south wales think that the WRU is the game of rugby union in Wales, and that it demands support of the people, whereas the people are the reason the WRU exist and it is them who must be supported.

The WRU has created this mess because of the money men, now the money men are attempting to restructure to support their agenda's/reputations etc and each and everytime this happens there is one loser, the rugby loving public!!

To compare Irish rugby and Welsh rugby is comparing apples and Oranges (except for the fact Lewis is trying to imitate the Irish infrastructure in Wales amazingly unsuccesfully) The Irish provinces have hundreds of years of history, bred and nurtured by other sports, and rivalries. A focus is clearly on the club game in the hope that the int team will becomes succesfull because of this, whereas the WRU have clearly focus'd on the int team in the hope the club game can get along on a shoe string and thrive from the success of the MS.

Claiming the Irish are holding are superior because of a better funded and more succesfull club game is very petty, when they can perform and win 6N titles and compete in a world cup regularly we can talk superiority, but as of yet our int success has far outperformed yours in recent years! Irish p[erformances in the HC are of little factor in negotiations which will inevitably come down to sponsorship, TV deals and potential viewing figures!

Lewis is certainly not short sighted either, he knows exactly what he's doing to secure an extension of his contract and beyond!!!

See, thats the thing. I agree with 99% of what you say and am hugely sympathetic. You've gone defensive and logic is gone out the window. You're saying things like I'm claiming the Irish are superior (?!) and getting emotive. If I respond to that a mature conversation will become impossible which is why the better posters are leaving the site in droves. Needless to say I have no interest in points scoring and only want to debate the issue out of my own interest.

But to clarify I'm not saying we're better than you at international level and I'm not saying we're better than you at provincial level and I'm saying its because of our system. The reason I say we need the Scottish, Italians and Welsh to be strong is for the Pro12. None of these nations can afford the Pro12 to fail and we all need to club together to ensure we get a fair deal in the ERC negotiations as well. This is a hugely critical period for the future of mid-tier rugby in Europe.

Our provinces are certainly run a lot better though. and I have to be honest and say I can't see the strategy adopted by Scotland, Wales and Italy of making the regional sides entirely subservient to the national side working long term. Ultimately you're just going to end up seeing more and more players based overseas and rugby outside international windows withering on the vine. Unless you can get rugby fans engaged with professional rugby week to week there's always going to be a glass ceiling to how much the game can develop in your country.

I'd also have to say you're not accurate in what you say about the focus being on the Irish provinces at the expense of the national side- just look at the teams the provinces have been allowed to name for our derbeis. Dublin very tightly control what the provinces can and can't do and thats because the national team is subsidising the provinces! Just like Italy, Scotland and Wales the national side is the cash cow. But our provinces are better run businesses and contribute a lot more to their own upkeep. The key difference in the relationship of the provinces to the national team is there is a degree of give and take. The way our calendar is structured there will always be friction between what the provinces need and what the national team needs and we have a lot of politics and tension. Compared to Wales though, it's happy families. We have players being paid by Ireland directly for the time they spend there. We have agreed rest times etc.

You're also correct in saying Wales is not a direct analogue to Ireland, Wales has its own very specific problems but I would say; where is a closer model to Wales in world rugby than Ireland? We are similar sized nations with a similar resources and a similar sized fan and player base entering regional and international sides into the same tournaments each year.

Of course things get emotive when you claim welsh posters on here should essentially put up or shut up...

If everyone I see commentating here went to watch their region every week without fail he'd have no real cause to pull the plug.

Then claiming Italy, Scotland and Wales aren't as strong as Ireland...

Our problem is we need Scotland, Italy and Wales to be strong as we can't stand alone.

Also the Rabo nations aren't allied, we are just 4 very small nations clambering to stay competitive with England and France, the more we band together the more trouble we'll all be in when one of us decides it's in their best interest to take an offer that will inevitably come their way!

The Irish provinces are allowed far more freedom than the Welsh regions, sign far superior NIQ players and in key positions, look at Ulsers revival and tell me it doesn't revolve around the likes of Afoa, Pienaar and Payne!

Irish provinces are far better run business's, mainly because they have a product that is wanted. I am willing to bet if the IRFU pulled the funding on Ulster for some reason and told half the fans to follow Leinster the other half Connacht then things would start to unravell.

Or more appropriately I'd love to see the kind of product the GAA would have if they affiliated Dublin and Kerry?! Thats similar to how welsh rugby was 'restructured'. So you can understand that despite being a multiple season ticket holder I woul get aggitated when a dispondant and trodden welsh public get a hard time for not bothering with the club game!

They get a hard time, and I'm being unfair to them but it's a hard world and it's unfair on them. The regions will disappear if people don't support them financially. It's not like your wrong in what you're saying but the point still stands however much you or I may dislike it.

I wish professional sport- and the world in general- was different but it's not. The culpability is not with the fans. The WRU fecked up and they continue to feck up their feck up. It's their responsibility to provide a product worth selling. But what do you expect to happen if the majority of rugby fans don't row in behind whats there?

Brings me back to my original point; this latest move is pure foolishness. It can only disenfranchise even more regional fans and put another nail in the regions coffin.

Notch

Thats what a large number of people want, the regions gone!

I sometimes get the impression that people would far prefer an amateur welsh prem, with potential stars being poached by the English and French clubs than have to endure more of the last 10 seasons or so!!!

Of course the WRU would love this, they could cash in young players as their property, allow other clubs to invest in them and then convince the players to create int window clauses. Big cash cow saved without all that pesky club game garbage!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Notch

Thats what a large number of people want, the regions gone!

I sometimes get the impression that people would far prefer an amateur welsh prem, with potential stars being poached by the English and French clubs than have to endure more of the last 10 seasons or so!!!

Of course the WRU would love this, they could cash in young players as their property, allow other clubs to invest in them and then convince the players to create int window clauses. Big cash cow saved without all that pesky club game garbage!

Except you're gonna find that model doesn't work so well for the Fijis and Samoas of this world, even the Argentinas! It's a dangerous road to go down. It can work but you risk losing everything. I hope it doesn't happen because the Six Nations and the World Cup need a strong Wales team and moreover we need the competition at provincial level.

Mate, for a massive amount of people in Wales there is no risk because they have nothing to lose. Their club has been taken away and replaced with generic name imagined region that won't involve them, and lives 30 miles plus into the nearest city and play games they can't get too!

The MS cash cow isn't interested in the clubman anymore, INT rugby is taylor'd toward the corporate and bloated.

Football participation and support is thriving with record success, following and junior participation, the generation the WRU weren't interested in has somehow managed to deter the target generation.

The game is as low as it's ever been for a typical rugby supporter. But on the plus side interest and following for div 2/3/4/5 and lower club sides is going quite well, and adult participation at the bottom level is up.

Bluesman and Notch as interesting as this debate is, I mentioned in my OP that this is Roger Lewis personal opinion as he stated in his Sunday Times interview, it has nothing to do with the WRU,as I also said the general feeling on our website is that Rodger the Dodger had to come out with something as the negotiations were not going as he wanted between the 4 man regions, 4 man WRU and the independant chairman, that is why Andrew Hore gave his interview at half time on S4C in the Ospreys Scarlets match, why have this commitee to sort out these problems in secret only for this clown come out with his own personal views, can I say apart from the last 2 seasons when illness prevented me going, I was a ST holder since the Ospreys went to the Liberty Stadium and I'm now back and thoroughly enjoying myself especially the last 2 games.

Risca Rev wrote:I hope nobody discusses your post, as you lose all credibility with your Pontypridd part and then add to it by saying bring Pontypool back in your next paragraph. You just show yourself to be barking mad there.

Hi Risca:

What do you suggest, keep funding a dead duck in the Dragons, they do play on a pond from time to time, interesting to see if the Ospreys game will be on?

What funding? The money that barely covers the bills... The stadium itself is becoming self sustainable. Perhaps they can one day improve the pitch. As for the Dragons, well the WRU never did a decent job of administrating their half, from the grass roots up. One day I hope the WRU runs all four (maybe five) Wales teams centrally. But now I think they can't because they're so incompetent and do not focus enough on the rugby.

I agree with that

Here here morg

Notch wrote:He's a business man. If everyone I see commentating here went to watch their region every week without fail he'd have no real cause to pull the plug. But he lacks vision. His thinking is short term bean counting on top of years and years of it. What he's doing is damage limitation. Strong regional rugby in Wales will make your national team stronger and more financially viable.

Similar practice in the SRU has brought them to the brink as well- the IRFU has plenty of problems but at least we have switched on, intelligent CEOs at provincial level now the era of Mike Reid at Ulster is long over, and thankfully so. Our problem is we need Scotland, Italy and Wales to be strong as we can't stand alone. The Pro12 needs more than the Irish. Unfortunately things are looking grim.

This kind of shoite also undermines our negotiating position at the ERC summits. You would have thought the WRU would at least have had the wit to come out with this latest bombshell after the new format was decided.

Actually, he's a musician by training. He made a career as a corporate administrator/penpusher. I'm sure he's good at both.

As a 'leader' of a rugby union he's wholly inadequate. He employed Gatland a few years back and he boasts that keeping Barclays happy at the expense of domestic rugby is a good thing. Other than that, he's done nothing but drain £300k+ a year in salary away from the game in Wales.

glamorganalun - where do you get this notion about the pitch at RP? - it has one of the best surfaces of any in wales - i suspect you base your bias on the Cardiff debacle last season when a downpour of biblical proportions took place in the hours building up to kick off deeming the pitch unplayable - Your view of the Dragons is way out dated,restructured off field by excellent new CEO Chris Brown will show a small profit at year end - You may just have to eat your "dead duck" words shortly!

The only times we've had problems with our pitch was due to snow and/or frozen pitch, which affects loads of sports clubs all over the UK. Not that many people have underground heating. The other time was when we had a flooded pitch, but that was due to a downpour of biblical proportions. Local houses had to be evacuated that day. That was a freak occurrence which had never happened before. We've never had a waterlogged pitch before or since. (hope I don't have to eat my words to tomorrow!).

Are biblical proportions 12"x6"x4"?

dragon999 wrote:glamorganalun - where do you get this notion about the pitch at RP? - it has one of the best surfaces of any in wales - i suspect you base your bias on the Cardiff debacle last season when a downpour of biblical proportions took place in the hours building up to kick off deeming the pitch unplayable - Your view of the Dragons is way out dated,restructured off field by excellent new CEO Chris Brown will show a small profit at year end - You may just have to eat your "dead duck" words shortly!

Bonymaen RFC have started showing a small profit. Doesn't mean they should have 'regional' status.

Only of they re-release 'Brown girl in the ring'