Nadal out of Australian Open with stomach virus

by harrpau7 Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:30 pm

First topic message reminder :

Just seen it on BBC Sport.

Shame, but something doesn't seem right with Nadal's absence.

by LuvSports! Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:16 pm

I don't think any, bar a few, sports are clean.

The omerta is everywhere! Imagine if the top 4 were dopers how would that affect the viewing public and attendances?!?! If they get the future recommended IOC 4 year ban surely it would tarnish the sport as cycling has been.

Cycling is bad yes but it is because it set out to openly catch dopers much more than any other sport that is why it gets the most criticism. So many other sports are an absolute joke for testing with epitestosterone to testosterone levels being much lower for cycling than tennis or swimming.

I am suspicious of everyone now and I think people should also at least accept doping is a problem and not allow an armstrong case occur in other sports e.g. Phil liggett (what a joke!)

by User 774433 Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:18 pm

LS, did you form that opinion before or after my shocking revelations on Google. Very Happy

by LuvSports! Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:29 pm

haha although i would like to give you some credit bud, I must confess after being so deeply immersed with the sport of cycling for quite a while, it has opened my eyes.

by CaledonianCraig Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:15 pm

Fair enough LuvSports but that does not explain away why this thread is only calling Nadal into question does it?

by LuvSports! Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:25 pm

i wasn't refuting that though was I i was just responding to your comment but we have been through this.

by The Special Juan Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:29 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Fair enough LuvSports but that does not explain away why this thread is only calling Nadal into question does it?

I was deliberating whether or not on posting this but I decided I will:

"This isn't really related to Nadal but whilst we're on the subject of potential "silent bans", nothing has been said about Soderling. Like IMBL, I don't believe any of the top players are doping but surely in the context of Nadal being absent, Soderling's absence also has to be looked at.

As someone made the point of saying, Soderling was a "journeyman" for a lot of seasons before suddenly getting himself right to the top of the game out nowhere almost. Then, after a couple of major finals, he gets struck down by mono and has been out of action for a year or two now. How long was Federer sidelined with mono? Obviously, it could be more serious than Federer's bout and he might be suffering from other injuries; I'm not entirely sure on his current circumstances. Anyway, he's been out for a long time and I bet a few eyebrows were raised when he beat Nadal at the French Open certainly.

Note: A couple of things I want to add to that."

by CaledonianCraig Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:34 pm

But you see that is the problem here. It is seemingly the widescale opinion on this forum that doping tests etc are virtually non-existent in tennis so leaves us back at square one as in any player in the world could be doping and we wouldn't know but this thread directs accusations solely at Nadal. Hardly fair that now is it?

by CaledonianCraig Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:38 pm

Juan if Nadal was on a mythical silent ban then why on earth would he have given dates he hoped to be back for then pulled out of those tournaments. That defies all logic as if it were a silent ban he would know when any ban was up and would know and announce the tournament he would definitely know he would be back for.

by The Special Juan Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:43 pm

It's not fair. He's the one who's name comes up most often. I don't know whether that's got something to do with bitter Fed fans (that isn't directed to anyone on here), people who don't like him or the fact there's just something suspect about him general.

by CaledonianCraig Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:47 pm

Well that is the protestations of people such as myself on this thread is because it is unfair singling out Nadal. Until someone has concrete evidence on the matter then such accusations shouldn't be made against anyone.

by The Special Juan Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:49 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Juan if Nadal was on a mythical silent ban then why on earth would he have given dates he hoped to be back for then pulled out of those tournaments. That defies all logic as if it were a silent ban he would know when any ban was up and would know and announce the tournament he would definitely know he would be back for.

No, I've never heard of a "silent ban" and doubt they exist full-stop.

The only reason I could think of for saying when he'd be back is to make it seem like he hasn't been banned. There's no ban anyway (IMO of course) so he's probably genuinely ill. Poor guy, everyone's trying to guess what's wrong with him when he's probably in bed with the norovirus!!

by Danny_1982 Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:59 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:But you see that is the problem here. It is seemingly the widescale opinion on this forum that doping tests etc are virtually non-existent in tennis so leaves us back at square one as in any player in the world could be doping and we wouldn't know but this thread directs accusations solely at Nadal. Hardly fair that now is it?

I read the other day Craig that in 2011 there were 29 out of season tests in total on the ATP. That's a staggeringly small amount of testing. I would expect every player to be tested once or twice in the off season, but 29 in total for the whole tour? The reasoning is that it's expensive to test all players often. Astonishing when you think of the money the tour must generate each year.

There definitely isn't enough testing based on that statistic, but I fully agree with you that it is ridiculous that Rafa gathers more suspicion than any other players. It's not right.

by User 774433 Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:43 pm

The Special Juan wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Fair enough LuvSports but that does not explain away why this thread is only calling Nadal into question does it?

I was deliberating whether or not on posting this but I decided I will:

"This isn't really related to Nadal but whilst we're on the subject of potential "silent bans", nothing has been said about Soderling. Like IMBL, I don't believe any of the top players are doping but surely in the context of Nadal being absent, Soderling's absence also has to be looked at.

As someone made the point of saying, Soderling was a "journeyman" for a lot of seasons before suddenly getting himself right to the top of the game out nowhere almost. Then, after a couple of major finals, he gets struck down by mono and has been out of action for a year or two now. How long was Federer sidelined with mono? Obviously, it could be more serious than Federer's bout and he might be suffering from other injuries; I'm not entirely sure on his current circumstances. Anyway, he's been out for a long time and I bet a few eyebrows were raised when he beat Nadal at the French Open certainly.

Note: A couple of things I want to add to that."

I think Soderling has mono, but I suspect it may be due to him having EPO, mono is a side effect. We can't k ow for sure though.

by User 774433 Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:49 pm

barrystar wrote:I've had a sniff around the various articles and threads mentioned, and one thing I've seen is an email exchange from the THASP site in which the ITF confirms that Dr. Miller was correctly quoted when he said that during 2008-9 EPO tests were carried out on players whose blood screening indicated possible EPO use and at the top of the list of players tested players for EPO with 4 was Fed - Djoko on 3, Nadal on 2. Fed also reputedly missed a test in 2009.

Fed missed a test in 2009, where's your source for this?

by murrayfan Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:20 pm

It Must Be Love wrote:
barrystar wrote:I've had a sniff around the various articles and threads mentioned, and one thing I've seen is an email exchange from the THASP site in which the ITF confirms that Dr. Miller was correctly quoted when he said that during 2008-9 EPO tests were carried out on players whose blood screening indicated possible EPO use and at the top of the list of players tested players for EPO with 4 was Fed - Djoko on 3, Nadal on 2. Fed also reputedly missed a test in 2009.
Fed missed a test in 2009, where's your source for this?

Check this link out

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/list.html

In 2010, the ITF posted this document http://www.scribd.com/doc/68385025/ITF-2009-OCC-Pages-From-IO-47087-original

The following players were listed with an Out-of-Competition test for which there was a zero in each testing column (urine, blood, EPO):

1. Griffioen, Jiske 21/03/2009
2. Moya, Carlos 16/05/2009
3. Benneteau, Julien 20/05/2009
4. Karlovic, Ivo 31/05/2009
5. Stubbs, Rennae 12/06/2010
6. Nadal, Rafael 14/06/2009
7. Bolelli, Simone 15/06/2009
8. Williams, Serena 16/06/2009
9. Williams, Venus 16/06/2009
10. Acasuso, Jose 17/06/2009
11. Gravellier, Florence 18/06/2009
12. Mauresmo, Amelie 01/07/2009
13. Mathieu, Paul-Henri 07/07/2009
14. Sharapova, Maria 09/07/2009
15. Simon, Gilles 09/07/2009
16. Nestor, Daniel 15/07/2009
17. Vaidisova, Nicole 24/07/2009
18. Roddick, Andy 15/08/2009
19. Walraven, Sharon 18/08/2009
20. Huber, Liezel 24/08/2009
21. Del Potro, Juan Martin 26/08/2009
22. Hantuchova, Daniela 26/08/2009
23. Pous-Tio, Laura 29/08/2009
24. Cirstea, Sorana 14/09/2009
25. Wawrinka, Stanislas 15/09/2009
26. Anderrson, Johan 19/09/2009
27. Ferrer, David 22/09/2009
28. Jankovic, Jelena 22/09/2009
29. Ancic, Mario 23/09/2009
30. Black, Cara 18/10/2009
31. Raymond, Lisa 19/10/2009
32. Federer, Roger 28/10/2009
33. Pironkova, Tszvetana 31/10/2009
34. Wozniak, Aleksandra 01/11/2009
35. Andreev, Igor 11/11/2009
36. Chakvetadze, Anna 12/11/2009
37. Nieminen, Jarkko 14/11/2009
38. Tursunov, Dmitry 14/11/2009
39. Lopez, Feliciano 16/11/2009
40. Peer, Shahar 17/11/2009
41. Bhupathi, Mahesh 21/11/2009
42. Pavlyuchenkova, Anastasia 22/11/2009
43. Wozniacki, Caroline 23/11/2009
44. Fish, Mardy 24/11/2009
45. Querrey, Sam 24/11/2009
46. Bartoli, Marion 01/12/2009
47. Simon, Gilles 08/12/2009
48. Kohlschreiber, Philipp 21/12/2009
49. Koellerer, Daniel 30/12/2009

When asked about the triple zero entries the ITF responded:

"The results you are referring to were missions that resulted, for whatever reason, in no sample being collected."

by invisiblecoolers Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:07 pm

LuvSports! wrote:
invisiblecoolers wrote:Funny how the topic started and how its blown out of proportion with all these drug scandals , lets be very practical had Nadal made AO and lost in 2nd round again [another rise of underdog] it might have dented his confidence real bad.

Haddie , Me and few others discussed this several times that very unlikely Rafa will start with AO, its better and wiser from Rafa's part to start from clay season build his confidence back and take the challanges of grass court and hard courts to follow.

Stomach bug might be the excuse but I don't think its anything to do with Drugs.

I don't believe somebody can play 5-6 hour marathon at high level just taking drugs, the amount of drugs required to play such a level would be one too many and might even result in sudden death if practiced for few years let alone for close to 10 years, I don't think so Rafa or for that reason any top level player be stupid enough to kill themselves for a bit of pride.

I dont agree with your last paragraph. In road cycling (hardest sport of them all) they are riding for that length of time and if they take drugs and are a gc contender or going for the stage win they may inject some sort of drug intravenously or subcutaneously before hand and that would last them fine, some are even injected before the tournament and it lasts for a week or so! So although i am not accusing nadal i disagree that the amount of drugs needed would be high due to much more sophisticated methods and practices in beating the system.

LS my point is simple, Nadal would have needed a lot of drugs if he relied just on drugs for his stamina since ATP world tour is all round the year and he is playing this energy sapping sport for close to 9 years now, so it would have taken a toll on him completely , I guess if those mentioned Cyclist would have taken drugs regularly all round the year for close to 10 years their life should be in serious danger.

I once heard through a documentary that several Russians Olympic athletes died coz they were asked to dope severely in quest of medal [They did win the medal but died under 5 years], so its not that doping leads to no damage, if doping would do no damage to athletes body then would have been declared as positive health supplements and would have been recommended for every athletes than being banned by every organization. thumbsup

by LuvSports! Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:11 am

[/quote] LS my point is simple, Nadal would have needed a lot of drugs if he relied just on drugs for his stamina since ATP world tour is all round the year and he is playing this energy sapping sport for close to 9 years now,

that is a given no? If someone dopes for a long time naturally they are going to need a lot of drugs.

I guess if those mentioned Cyclist would have taken drugs regularly all round the year for close to 10 years their life should be in serious danger.

yes back in the day when it was less sophisticated but nowadays it is a very rare thing indeed and many dope for most of their careers, just look at some implicated in the armstrong case.

so its not that doping leads to no damage, if doping would do no damage to athletes body then would have been declared as positive health supplements and would have been recommended for every athletes than being banned by every organization. [quote]

Obviously PED's are bad for your health, but power hungry athletes who care about winning and nothing else see it as not irrelevant but maybe "nihil ad rem".

I think you underestimate the efforts dr's and those who choose to dope go in terms of technology and science to avoid detection.

It just seems your last post isn't consistent with the previous one.

by invisiblecoolers Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:21 am

@ LS

I see my last point very much synced with my above argument, no idea why you see that as very different to the above view. There is a documentary on how some Russian athlethes was killed in a flight crash fearing a scam expose of supplements.

by barrystar Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:17 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:But you see that is the problem here. It is seemingly the widescale opinion on this forum that doping tests etc are virtually non-existent in tennis so leaves us back at square one as in any player in the world could be doping and we wouldn't know but this thread directs accusations solely at Nadal. Hardly fair that now is it?

My idear of fair is to discuss exactly what I want to in a fair way. You don't have to join in, but I'm jiggered if I'll be guided by your s or anyone else's notion of fairness as to which player I discuss in which context. If nobody else wants to discuss this I'll end up talking to myself on an empty threat - but unsurprisingly this is anything but that.

It's a thread about Nadal for starters. More importantly and more generally, a little while back a French newspaper said that his name was one of those thrown up by Operacion Puerto before being gagged on the basis, as far as I understand, not because the allegation was proven to be untrue, but because the file is to be treated as sealed for the time being. Operacion Puerto has been the biggest thing in European anti-doping since Festina,it is consisently said to involve other sports - and the trial is coming up next month. Spain is a country whose prominence in pretty much all sports has changed dramatically since they got the 1992 Olympics, fairly well supported rumours abound of dodgy doctors, a very high official (a government minister?) has recently accepted that there is a problem with PEDs in spanish sport, or at least a perceptional one.

Given the above, and given that he is one of the best ever, one of the two most popular players over the last 10 years, someone whose public utterances about doping have at times been unwisely ambiguous or, to be charitable, open to misintepretation, he's pretty much the one player I want to concentrate on when this subject comes up.

If you want to add balance by mentioning others, be my guest, but your general position seems to be one of prefering that we don't go near the whole tricky subject without proof of a positive test.

by Guest Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:10 am

Barry youre accusing Nadal of cheating, a player well loved around the world, including on this forum, without any substantial evidence, no positive tests, and only rumor and the odd newspaper article... one which didn't specify any sources, and made other large claims about Barcelona, also without any justification other than "oh we saw it".
Moreover you're thinking is that Nadal's the only one worth talking about not because his case is necessarily more clear, but just because he's more famous, and because you wanna talk about it, and therefore no one else is allowed to talk about anyone else's case.
Honestly did you not think people were gonna call you up for singling him out?
We've discussed Nadals' case to death, and we need more info essentially, please don't take it as an insult if someone tries to bring some balance to the discussion by considering other peoples cases.

by User 774433 Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:16 am

Thew newspaper article never actually said 'we've found the list, this is who it is'
I'm reading now it claimed that it had found out stars from other sports from Spain could have also been included, so just named a list of suspects.
They didn't actually find the list, they just named who they suspected. There's a huge difference, they basically randomly guessed whoever they liked.

by User 774433 Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:45 am

Falzy, I think Barrystar is relatively fair when it comes to this issue, especially compared to many other people.
I think Federer fans in general will like to look at Nadal, when it comes to this sort of stuff, I think it's almost second nature given the amount of times Nadal has beaten Federer in Grand Slams.

by User 774433 Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:47 am

No one will mention a word about Djokovic, who in my eyes if fitter, stamina wise, than Rafael Nadal.
If Djokovic starts beating Federer more often then I think he could get start to be mentioned more, he has to be careful with that one.

by bogbrush Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:03 pm

Lame stuff there Amrit, you do seem desperate to bring Federer into this at every opportunity.

Having failed to dispose of Nadal as a subject by trying to equate Barry's stuff with that crank website, and your self-confessed weak connections, you now want to shrug it all off as the fantasy of Federer fans, despite this one being on record repeatedly as saying I believe a Nadal exposure would be a tragedy for Federer.

by Guest Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:09 pm

falzy21 wrote:Barry youre accusing Nadal of cheating, a player well loved around the world, including on this forum, without any substantial evidence, no positive tests, and only rumor and the odd newspaper article... one which didn't specify any sources, and made other large claims about Barcelona, also without any justification other than "oh we saw it".
Moreover you're thinking is that Nadal's the only one worth talking about not because his case is necessarily more clear, but just because he's more famous, and because you wanna talk about it, and therefore no one else is allowed to talk about anyone else's case.
Honestly did you not think people were gonna call you up for singling him out?
We've discussed Nadals' case to death, and we need more info essentially, please don't take it as an insult if someone tries to bring some balance to the discussion by considering other peoples cases.

Barry hasn't accused Nadal of doping. He made that clear in a post earlier on this thread. As far as cheating, from what I have Barry say is similar to many on here which is to do with the time between points and suspect MTO's. That has been done to death on this forum and the outcome is that not only do the majority feel umpires need to be more stronger on rule enforcement and that also the player has responsibility to abide by the rules too. I will say however he isn't the only offender as Djokovic years ago was an MTO king and has since cleaned his act up on the score and as has Nadal. However they both seem to float the time rule.

by LuvSports! Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:18 pm

hmm im not sure i agree with that 2bh. I know djoko ran more miles in aus 2012 but if you look at the US open 2011, djokovic was much more aggressive (nadal passive in first 2 sets before going for it in the 3rd) and as a result nadal was doing much more of the running.
I know that is only 1 example but generally I feel in their matches nadal tends to do more of the running.

Both in fact suffered cramping in the 4th set, with djoko pulling through due to his more aggressive play and ability to hit winners (US commentators say so several times). But it was clear nadal did a lot more of the running, if djoko did the same nadal had in that match i'm not sure he would be standing.

At times this year on the clay, it seemed novak was unwilling to go into those longer grueling rallies with nadal which was quite a contrast from 2011.

by User 774433 Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:30 pm

I think it may be interesting to look at the Djokovic case as well.
This was my earlier look at Federer:

It Must Be Love wrote:
1. From THASP, I found out the figures for the amount of times EPO testing done between 2008 and 2009.
It was confirmed by the ITF that EPO tests were triggered only if blood screening indicated a player may be using the drug.
And, alarmingly, it was Roger Federer who had been tested the most times in the data, having been tested four times.
Of course none of the players listed were found to violate the code, and this is unsurprising considering it only takes 24-72 hours to flush EPO out of the system, to get caught for EPO use would mean you would have to be very foolish, as well as a doper.
http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/epo-testing-revisited-wrap-up-part-four.html?m=1

2. Roger Federer had mononucleosis in 2008.
EPO and Mononucleosis:
Mononucleosis is a side effect of long term EPO usage, as explained in this article:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Mononucleosis-and-EPO---Is-There-a-Connection?&id=1063041

Funnily enough in cycling when EPO usage was rife, the number of cyclists with mono also increased with Millar, Rasmussen, Ullrich, Rodgers, Rjuano, Reus and Taaramae just some of the names.
Roger Federer suffered from mononucleosis in 2008.

3. http://touch.dailymotion.com/#/video/xk9eyv_roger-federer-and-rafael-nadal-laughing-long-version_sport
Federer sweats more in this encounter than I have seen him sweat in any tennis match. This is a 14 min while sitting down, while tennis is a active sport played for hours...
Quite suspicious.

4. Both his parents have worked in the pharmaceutical industry. His parents would have contacts. Easy accessibility to new products.

5. Incredible stamina- Something that is often overlooked. Rome 2006 and Wimbledon 2009. In Wimby 2007 Nadal became very tired much before Fed did (and Nadal has good stamina).

6. Federer trains at high altitude- shows the intention to increase red blood cell count. With this intention, he could also look to EPO to create a bigger increase on this front. Points number 1 and 2 expand more.

7. Late resurgence in career, at an age where is fellow peers of similar age are losing it. Roddick is similar age, he's not been near his highest level for a few years now and had to retire this year. Federer meanwhile is resurgent, winning Wimbledon this year.

8. Won Australian Open in 2010... The same year of the HGH scandal. Maybe Odesnik was not the only one bringing PEDs to the Australia. Other less important players may have and supplied it to Federer.

9. His right arm is much stronger than his left arm, look at the video provided in point number 3 to see this. Similar issues for Nadal, but other way around. This indicates possible doping, for both Nadal and Federer.

Djokovic is another intriguing case.
Like Federer and Nadal I have no proof whatsoever, and as I believe in innocent until proven guilty, I don't think Djokovic is on steroids.
But taking a look nonetheless, we see a Djokovic in AO 2009 retires due to fatigue in the heat. Three years later he plays two of the longest matches on Australian Open history in a row, and wins them both. It was incredible stuff, the media labelled him 'Superman.'
Superman, or maybe steroid-man?
I personally don't think he's on PED, but there's many who do.
How did Djokovic go from a guy who used to retire from matches due to fatigue more than any other player, to one who could play marathon after marathon, and out-last Nadal with ease.

Djokovic has revealed he has a gluten allergy, and after spotting this, was able to improve his fitness. I believe Djokovic on that, maybe I am naive.
Perhaps it is just a smokescreen, to take PEDs and attribute any dramatic changes in fitness to the gluten allergy, as well as other things such as egg chambers. He also had a sudden meteoric rise in 2011 too...

What do you guys think?
Has he created a smokescreen, so he can take PEDs at will and make himself ultra fit and hence like AO2012 play marathons consecutively?
Or has he improved his fitness after identifying that he had gluten allergy, and avoiding gluten products.
Personally I think it's the latter, but everyone is free to make up their minds.

by Guest Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:38 pm

This is all fair, its fine for him to discuss his suspicions of nadal, though on the same basis i don't feel it's unfair to critique his evidence for suspicion and ask why hes only interested in nadal, and critique that too, (nothing nasty of course)
I guess thinking about it though this isn't a thread about nadal doping, perhaps a separate thread about doping suspicion should be made, perhaps one for each player we want to talk about, that way theres no issue.

by Guest Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:02 pm

You could try that, however all doping threads lead up to same dead end everytime. No evidence. Even if we speculate that gets out of hand due to the wild notions that some may come to.

Getting ahead of one's self tends to lead to disappointment.

by User 774433 Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:09 pm

Legendkiller, on OTF I remember you mentioning there are PEDs which help you recover quickly from injuries.
Which were these?

by Guest Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:15 pm

Cor now your asking!!! Headscratch

I will let you know in 2013 RedWine

by CaledonianCraig Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:51 pm

Going completely off-topic here but it is something I am now wondering. Did Lance Armstrong's cancer developing have anything to do with taking PED's? Sorry if that seems a ridiculous suggestion but am just curious.

by User 774433 Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:06 pm

Not sure CC, but I don't think so.

by LuvSports! Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:13 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Going completely off-topic here but it is something I am now wondering. Did Lance Armstrong's cancer developing have anything to do with taking PED's? Sorry if that seems a ridiculous suggestion but am just curious.

Lance began taking drugs before the cancer and many believe this is what caused it, it deffo isn't a ridiculous suggestion

by User 774433 Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:21 pm

I think Barrystay or Murrayfan mentioned something on this earlier, so I did some research into it.

From THASP, I found out the figures for the amount of times EPO testing done between 2008 and 2009.
It was confirmed by the ITF that EPO tests were triggered only if blood screening indicated a player may be using the drug.
And, alarmingly, it was Roger Federer who had been tested the most times in the data, having been tested four times.
Of course none of the players listed were found to violate the code, and this is unsurprising considering it only takes 24-72 hours to flush EPO out of the system, to get caught for EPO use would mean you would have to be very foolish, as well as a doper.
http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/epo-testing-revisited-wrap-up-part-four.html?m=1

EPO and Mononucleosis:
Mononucleosis is a side effect of long term EPO usage, as explained in this article:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Mononucleosis-and-EPO---Is-There-a-Connection?&id=1063041

Funnily enough in cycling when EPO usage was rife, the number of cyclists with mono also increased with Millar, Rasmussen, Ullrich, Rodgers, Rjuano, Reus and Taaramae just some of the names.
Roger Federer also had mononucleosis in 2008, and Robin Soderling is still out due to mono currently.

by LuvSports! Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:44 pm

Number of things i want to point out there imbl.

you can flush epo out much quicker than that with the help of saline masking it. Armstrong i believe was the first to do so, i mean if it took that long he would have been caught. Also through microdoses many dopers can beat the system with having levels just under the 50 mark (E.g. USPT).
Also you can't completely flush out EPO as it is naturally produced by the kidney and liver.

rujano said he had mono but that his been called into question after he pulled out of the giro.

by super_realist Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:22 am

Apart from his tennis what exactly do people like about Nadal? He seems a pretty repulsive person on the court from what I've seen and downright miserable into the bargain.

I'll be delighted if his knee is shot permanently and we don't have to see the worst celebration in sport ever again.

by Haddie-nuff Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:01 am

super_realist wrote:Apart from his tennis what exactly do people like about Nadal? He seems a pretty repulsive person on the court from what I've seen and downright miserable into the bargain.

I'll be delighted if his knee is shot permanently and we don't have to see the worst celebration in sport ever again.

I sincerely hope you do not have the affrontry to call yourself a fan of tennis.. have you nothing better to do than come on here New Years Day to insult Nadal and his fans. Im sure that Rafa would be gracious enough to wish you a Happy New year.... However I dont. Doh

Oh and speaking of repulsive you probably would know censored

by super_realist Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:07 am

Of course you can be a tennis fan amd dislike a player. I had already said he was a fine player, but he seems like a total git. What's wrong with that assessment?

I just can't see what people like about the guy, like Woods, he's a great player but a complete knob. Same with Nadal as far as I can see.

I must apologise though, I didnt realise you can only comment if you make sure your comments are a love in. Headscratch

by gboycottnut Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:06 pm

Nadal is probably having the stomach viral problem symptoms as he doesn't fancy facing the big hitting swing from the hips shots of his arch nemesis Lukas Rosol on a fast court surface during his comeback Slam Major appearance, which is why he is waiting until the French Open before he makes the long awaited comeback Major appearance. A very well thought out and a cunning idea/plan from Nadal really.

by super_realist Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:14 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:But you see that is the problem here. It is seemingly the widescale opinion on this forum that doping tests etc are virtually non-existent in tennis so leaves us back at square one as in any player in the world could be doping and we wouldn't know but this thread directs accusations solely at Nadal. Hardly fair that now is it?

Probably because Nadal is the one who is absent at the moment. I'm sure any other player (e.g Soderling) would also get the same accusation, basis in fact or not. Also, have you not noticed this is a thread about Nadal, there's a clue there that the topic of conversation might well be him.

It's not a Nadal witch hunt at all, and you'd have to be pretty sad and be wearing a tinfoil hat to see it that way. Let's hope he's not back anytime soon though.

by User 774433 Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:21 pm

Have you nothing better to do than come on here New Years Day to insult Nadal and his fans.

I'm sorry Haddie, I think Im with Super Realist on this one.

I think people should be allowed to voice their opinions, if they so want, irrelevant of whether it is intelligent/ researched/ educated etc.
Before December 21st this year some people who didn't have much intelligence believed that the world would end that day. Do you believe they shouldn't be allowed to voice their opinion just because they are stupid?
That's grossly unfair imo.

As for Super Realist, I think I've seen his handful if posts in this section, and they seem to all be exactly the same post just copied and pasted. That's not necessarily a bad thing though, if you think of something to say you have the freedom to just continuously repeat it every few months, nothing wrong with that.

Anyway HN, apologies for disagreeing with you on this point, but more importantly I hope your husband is recovering well

by Haddie-nuff Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:46 pm

IMBL

Dont apologise especially if you agree with his comment

"I'll be delighted if his knee is shot permanently and we don't have to see the worst celebration in sport ever again..
super_realist

Posts: 7391
Join date: 2011-01-29
Location: St. Andrews

Great if thats what you wish on a player then you call yourself a tennis fan- Doh

Maybe this is a sensitive time for me but do you honestly believe that anyone would dare say that about any else but Nadal- Dreadful absolutely inexcusable sorry

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:52 pm

Spot on Hn. That is not the remark I'd expect to come from any tennis fan. Tennis fans (genuine ones) recognise Nadal's contributions to the sport and fair enough if you dont like him as a player but it crosses the boundary of acceptability to wish a career ending injury on him.

by super_realist Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:54 pm

Of course they would, there are plenty of people who don't like Federer, Djokovic or Murray.

I don't call myself a "fan" of anything, but if you want it in a simpering and ninny fashion then, I'd prefer Nadal not to win any longer. How's that? Suit your namby pampy agenda better than saying I wouldn't care if he was no longer in the game?

Not sure why you put in my post number, location and join date as if it bears some sort of relevance. What's that got to do with anything?

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:58 pm

Of course there are posters out there who don't like Murray, Djokovic, Federer etc etc but they aren't on here wishing them to have a career-ending injury. Heck football supporters are known to be obnoxious but even they dont stoop to low depths like that about opposing teams players.

by Haddie-nuff Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:59 pm

To wish physical harm on someone you do not know and has done no harm whatsover to you says a great deal about you as a person.. if you are not a tennis fan and you dont like those simpering wimpering mamby pamby fans of tennis plahyers you know what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Run

shut the door you your way out We wont miss you

by super_realist Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:06 pm

I think you are taking things a bit seriously, calm down dear.

by Haddie-nuff Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:12 pm

[quote="super_realist"]I think you are taking things a bit seriously, calm down dear.[/quo

You wish injury on a professional sportsman and you expect me to take that as some sort of joke

Oh yeah!! what a cop out.

by super_realist Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:15 pm

Of course, it's only a bloody internet forum. What's the point in getting upset about me making a statement?

Are you that much of a "fan" that you can't bear to have anyone say anything you don't like about your favourite little soldier?

So, yes you are taking things far too seriously.

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