Lions - Telfer on the 7 shirt

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Interesting views from Telfer (from ESPNScrum.com):

Former Lions No.8 and coach Jim Telfer has called on current head coach Warren Gatland to not overlook the claims of either Justin Tipuric or Ross Rennie as open-side flanker on the Tour of Australia.

Wales captain Sam Warburton is the leading candidate to wear the number seven jersey when the Lions begin their Test campaign against Australia in Brisbane on June 22, though England captain Chris Robshaw has recently forced his way into the reckoning following England's victory over New Zealand in December.

"I think that Warren Gatland has a few players that fall between the six and seven role, Chris Robshaw is one and Sam Warburton another," Telfer told The Rugby Paper. "If you look at Robshaw he started life at six and only moved across in the last couple of years and I don't think Warburton really falls into the role of seven either.

"Justin Tipuric is as good as you can get at a genuine seven in Britain and I'd say Ross Rennie, although a little injury-prone, is the other player in that mould.

Telfer was forwards' coach on the victorious 1997 tour to South Africa when he made the surprise selection of Paul Wallace and Tom Smith as Test props over the more-established Jason Leonard and Graham Rowntree. He also chose Richard Hill as his open-side for the first two Tests, then replaced him with Neil Back for the third and Telfer would like to see someone in a similar mould to the former England flankers given the chance to nullify Australia's David Pocock.

"I would liken them (Tipuric and Rennie) to the All Blacks flanker from the Seventies Graham Mourie, in that they provide that link between forwards and backs," he said. "Warburton and Robshaw don't really provide that linking ability and that's why I don't think they really fit in with what you need. They don't really offload like you would want them to. Tipuric and Rennie maybe don't have the strength of a Richie McCaw, but I would like to see them given the chance."

For what it's worth, I completely agree although this is bound to set hares running.

The interesting thing about this is that whilst you can disagree with Big Jim, absolutely nobody can make the accusation that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Incidentally, in which piece of granite is it written that "Sam Warburton is the leading candidate to wear the number seven jersey"? The press keep babbling this like it's scripture, yet I have seen absolutely no indication on current form that this should be the case.

Beshocked - this is why I was glad Irvine & Co chose Gatland, whom I believe should be reasonably impartial as a selector.

Other than the issues of (a) form, (b) the extent to which you wish to add or subtract marks from an individual based on the status of their team and (c) whether you place priority on international or club performances (Hines and Armitage can't/won't get any international time in the 6N but their respective packs are tearing up the opposition in T14), there's then the whole issue of which combinations work best. This is especially pointy when you consider front row and lock combinations. At the time, the combination of Dai Young, Brian Moore and David Sole was a real shotgun marriage of international rivals but that kevlar front row was the keystone of the last Lions series win in Aussie. It's all about the combinations.

I think that Ian Evans and Richie Gray would be a barnburning combination of enforcer and lineout expert but Launchbury is a definite bolter and the usual suspects of IW Jones, Cullen et all could all go.

Oh the decisions...

Warburton will take the no 7 shirt then for the Lions evidently based on what you say.

As long as he limits them thar spear tackles to one per season.

beshocked wrote:Warburton will take the no 7 shirt then for the Lions evidently based on what you say.

But should he?

the combination of Dai Young, Brian Moore and David Sole was a real shotgun marriage of international rivals but that kevlar front row was the keystone of the last Lions series win in Aussie

The third test is on youtube in full. I posted it on some thread here a couple of weeks back, I can only find the clip below now. If you can find it, have a watch. Dai Young has an absolute hiding in the scrums. It was the English players from 4-8 together with Calder that smashed the Aussies off the ball time after time in ruck and maul which won that match. The rules were different then (no stupid back foot law) and it shows.

As an aside there is also a corker of Brian Moore peeling round a line out and dropping a dolly catch. I can just imagine his commentary on current players doing the same! Also a gruff old Aussie commentator named Gary Pierce accused Campese of Micky Mouse Rugby unbefitting of the Wallaby Gold and Green.



https://youtu.be/qOCN4dkyvp4

Damn - they were fine in the first test (the one I saw recently)...
Will definitely have a look.

Really miss Calder. Harder than stale nail pie.

Found it. It's also striking how clipped the commentators are. Very professional ad journalistic, even if everything which goes wrong for the Aussies is the Ref's fault!

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=yyhc_nugarE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dyyhc_nugarE&gl=GB

beshocked wrote:


Still waiting for someone to answer my question about Tipuric - why all the hype?

Without wanting to sound flippant or rude, if you have to ask, you'll never know.

I should probably qualify that. He has all the attributes you want from a 7.
He is a turnover specialist with great ball carrying ability, consistently high tackle count, and I've even seen him chip over the head of a ??Glasgow winger, collect, and score under the posts. He's not the second coming, but he's a very good 7, no hype particularly.

Feckless Rogue wrote:I would have assumed that Henry won't be starting for Ireland now that O'Brien is back. SOB isn't considered a natural 7 but is a player with X factor and can be brilliant in all three back row positions. Which actually might make him a great impact sub for the Lions.

I'll stick with Tipuric for now. But it's quite competitive. And 6 is even more difficult to predict. We have a pretty formidable array of 6's. It'll have to come down to who hits form on the tour.

I'd have O'Brien in there regardless for Ireland

6. O'Brien
7. Henry
8. Heaslip

20. O'Mahoney

Somehow I don't see it happening but that back row would be freaking tasty... And O'Mahoney for pure aggression off the bench!

With Rennie being injured at the moment, Tipuric would get my vote at 7. I marked him down as being one to watch a couple of seasons ago during an impressive display for the Ospreys in a (then Magners) league game.

He has gone on and become a terrific player, and is ahead of Warburton on recent form.

Chris Henry is another who could yet stake a claim for a touring place. Even if he is not picked for Ireland, if Ulster continue their current form, then Henry will be hard to ignore.

Robshaw is still not a 7 for me, but will probably tour.

O'Mahony is the MOST over rated player in Europe.

Anyone else think the no.8 shirt is completely up for grabs?

No-one really impressing of late.

theslosty wrote:Anyone else think the no.8 shirt is completely up for grabs?

No-one really impressing of late.

Agreed. Any of Heaslip, Denton, Beattie, Morgan, Falateu and Ryan Jones could realistically make it, and I wouldn't rule out someone like Nick Easter making a late charge.

The back row is generally very hard to call this time round. Form will play a huge role in selection (I hope).

Heaslip appears to be the fans' favourite but he hasn't performed in an Irish jersey for a couple of years now.

Given his experience with the Lions previously, his experience with both Leinster and Ireland plus his all round abilities as a player, I can understand why Heaslip is the front runner, but he's by no means safe in my view. He does have a tendency to drift in and out of games, and every now and then he's conspicuously quiet. But he does have the game at the highest level and he knows all about touring with the Lions.

I find it hard to imagine he won't make the squad, but a lot can happen between now and then.

Easter's impressing at Club level but then he never quite played as well for England (though his faults were overemphasised IMO) as his does for Quins

*sigh... stats in the 6N's that Easter played in generally showed him at or near the top of anything that might be relevant for no.8 play. Offloads, carries (even steals from the line out). Nobody could match the yardage made by Parisse (for lots of reasons) but Easter did a lot of work in an England shirt.

His captaincy (for reasons of luck or otherwise) was always poor though

Glas a du wrote:Found it. It's also striking how clipped the commentators are. Very professional ad journalistic, even if everything which goes wrong for the Aussies is the Ref's fault!

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=yyhc_nugarE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dyyhc_nugarE&gl=GB

I`m not quite there yet, but, after four years, I`m getting closer to being ready to watch the Lions Second Test in South Africa again. Perhaps this year if we manage a series win.

I preferred the old style game. The Lions pack was a joy to behold in that match, without the breakdown dominating everything.