Greatest title reign

First topic message reminder :

Pure and simple question really, which boxer has had the greatest title reign in any division setting aside anything that went before or after.

For me it would have to be Carlos Monzon, not the most eye catching fighter but he always found a way to win convincingly against a wide range of different styles. He often chose to beat opponents at their own game whether they be boxer, slugger or brawler. I digress anyway, during his reign he defended the middleweight title for a then record 14 times, 13 of those opponents were ranked in the top ten by the ring magazine with the other being the undisputed welterweight champion in Jose Napoles. Has any boxer ever had a reign that comes close to competing against Monzons?

Thanks for the replies lads. I appreciate it.

Nobody bothered to answer the crucial Lycra hot pants question mackem. Lycra was developed by DuPont sometime after the 2nd world war.

Doesn't answer the question but it moves it on a little... we can rule out lycra.

Tommy was Canadian, so my guess is knitted beaver hair.

Re the OP. Not quite good enough to trouble the very best, but on the captains top 50 thread, i saw Chris brought up Jose napoles. He ruled the welters for nigh on 7 years, and 20 odd defences... with just a 6 month gap due to a loss on cuts that was avenged emphatically. Other than griffiths, not enough names to take this title but worth an honourable mention.

I would argue Milky that Griffiths is a better win than anything during Monzons title reign but that loss albeit on a cut and avenged is enough alone to give the edge to the argentine.

Would put Hopkins forward for consideration as well, in Joppy, Holmes, Trinidad, De La Hoya, Simon and Eastman it's quite justifiable to say he beat everyone there was to beat during his reign. Has the odd soft defence in there but on the whole it was a very fine reign if not an entertaining one.

Simon? brown? Yeh hopkins is up there on reigns. Thing against hoppy, his best wins on paper were against guys moving up, for whom middle was a bridge too far. That said, think Trinidad started as favourite... Not in my book I hasten to add. Think stopping the unbeaten glen johnson was one of his better wins in hindsight.

milkyboy wrote: Lycra was developed by DuPont sometime after the 2nd world war

or was it....... ....dundun-derrrn!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R7IMsOiftE



Anyway, back to the OP,

I'm not putting forward as the greatest title reign ever but what about Chris John?

48-0

Champion for 8 years (and still going...)

17 defenses (with one of those being against JMM).

Chris John tends to get overlooked a lot, and this is purely as a result of our own knowledge gaps. Whats more, is we are intelligent enough to be aware of our knowledge limitations, therefore we are loath to criticize (or praise) him with any sort of conviction.

In fact, when it comes to this sort of conversation, it's easier to ignore him.

We might not include, in any kind of list, a boxer who we don't know too much about......a massive injustice!! Or we may place them low.....a massive injustice!! Or we place them in an uncontroversial position (as dictated by the popular opinion of those more knowledgeable).....a massive injustice, not only to the boxer, but also his contemporaries and ourselves.

Basically most lists are flawed, especially ones that include Chris John. Damned if you do (include him) damned if you don't. It's very difficult to place the unknown known fighters with unknown oppo's, I don't think there is any sure fire way to do it?

wasn't the JMM result a screw job? and wasn't john the one that refused to leave his own backyard therefore never actually defending against the top fighters in his division?

The reasons I have for not including Chris John aren't as a result of any lack of knowledge but rather his reign is lacking in any real quality aside from Marquez and possibly Juarez. He gets an unfair amount of criticism for the Marquez fight I had him winning albeit closer than the judges with the points deductions being quite harsh but a deserved win it is.

His lack of ambition to test himself against the best makes his 17 defences quite redundant, for instance at the moment he has Gamboa, Salido, Lopez and Caballero operating in his division but rest assured he wont be going near any of them. I also think his compatriot Daud Yordan is the only fighter currently ranked by the ring magazine whom he has fought.

TopHat24/7 wrote:wasn't the JMM result a screw job? and wasn't john the one that refused to leave his own backyard therefore never actually defending against the top fighters in his division?

I hear what you are saying Tophat, but equally to blame are those fighters without the ambition to travel to Johns backyard to rip the title away from him.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

His lack of ambition to test himself against the best makes his 17 defences quite redundant, for instance at the moment he has Gamboa, Salido, Lopez and Caballero operating in his division but rest assured he wont be going near any of them. I also think his compatriot Daud Yordan is the only fighter currently ranked by the ring magazine whom he has fought.

Again I hear what you are saying Ghosty but, equally, it's up to the other champs to call him out, really apply the pressure Haye style.

They should try to unify the title and whether that means traveling then so be it.

TheMackemMawler wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:wasn't the JMM result a screw job? and wasn't john the one that refused to leave his own backyard therefore never actually defending against the top fighters in his division?

I hear what you are saying Tophat, but equally to blame are those fighters without the ambition to travel to Johns backyard to rip the title away from him.

having seen JMM get screwed, why would they want to?

Ward doesn't travel... but we don't give him a hard time.

Is it because he's fought the best and Chris John hasn't? If that is so then we need take into consideration where Ward is from (and where John and Calzaghe are not); the boxing capital of the world!

Everyone would like home advantage (not that Ward needs it).

If you are US based then you are fortunate in that every boxer would like to fight on the biggest stage....which lucky for you is your back yard; America.

If you are based in America then its very easy to accumulate a who's who of boxing on your record, if you choose to do so.

If you are not based in America but are champion and truly believe you are the best then your Ego will dictate that other fighters should come to your back yard for the opportunity to fight you.

The problem with multiple belt holders, all believing they are the best, is that sometimes an "Ego Stalemate" occurs, whereby, they all believe the other champ should travel to THEIR back yard and not the other way round.

Unfortunately a lot of fights don't get made this REASON, at other times, saying your best and that contenders should come to you is sometimes only an EXCUSE not to fight the best.

I really don't mean you any offense Toppy, so please don't take any in me saying this....

If Ghosty says John won then I am inclined to believe him.

However, whether John was fortunate or not, it was one result. He is not the next coming of Ottke and their is no reason to believe you would get screwed if you traveled to fight him.

Ghosty's scoring of fights sometimes differ from the norm mackem . However, he's right. John v JMM was a desperately boring affair where marquez had to make the running - something he wasn't too successful in doing. I too thought John did enough though a lot of the rounds were hard to score.

I think with John, they decided to bring him to the states to build his name up. He fought Juarez to a draw.. then won the return, both of these were on big bills, and when juarez was still decent currency after his barrera fights.

I don't know the backdrop but i suspect the fact that he isnt the most exciting fighter was enough for the money men to pack his bags back to indonesia.

TheMackemMawler wrote:I really don't mean you any offense Toppy, so please don't take any in me saying this....

If Ghosty says John won then I am inclined to believe him.

However, whether John was fortunate or not, it was one result. He is not the next coming of Ottke and their is no reason to believe you would get screwed if you traveled to fight him.

Tbh, haven't even seen the fight, just what I picked up reading the forums over the years and I thought, if true, it would make a pretty reasonable explanation as to why top fighters weren't willing to go there. Certainly more reasonable than why John refused to leave. Note your point about it being helpful to be based in the US but the simple fact is, if you're not and want a legacy it is for you to chase the big matches. John didn't seem to want any of it.

Sugar Ray. No one rained as beautifully as Ray.

Which one?

Robinson baby. Oh, and my reign on these boards has been special.

His brief Welterweight reign or his up and down middleweight one?

He is the greatest boxer of AT. Respect the man.

He is the greatest boxer of AT. Respect the man.

Anything constructive to say?

I once saw Sugar Ray knock an opponent with a left uppercut as he was moving backwards towards the ropes. A pretty unbelievable sight.

davidemore wrote:Robinson baby. Oh, and my reign on these boards has been special.

Special needs.