Graeme Smith the record-breaking captain

A few months back, he broke Allan Border's record for most games as skipper. Currently on 46 victories, he is two wins away from matching Ricky Ponting as the `Winningest` captain in history. There has always been a view in SAfrica that he could have done more with this side. But, his record immediately after the 05/06 Aus series was P37 W13 L13 D11. To have now won 46 out of 97 shows that he has a case for being the greatest captain in SA history, escpecially if you consider his Series victories in Pakistan, England X2, and Australia x2. Not to mention the two drawn series in India. I dont put a high premium on ODI's, but the fact that he hadnt lost a home bilateral series until 2009 is very impressive. Great opener, better skipper. I am a massive Clarke fan, but Smith is THE best skipper going around

You cant knock what hes acheived or argue that SA are the best side around at the moment. he has to take credit for keeping them focussed and achieving too, in all formats.

However Id look at the way misbah has transformed the attitude and fortunes of his team in extraordinarily difficult circumstances. Given the history of Pakistan cricket and the deep division, political infighting, and straight up corruption he inherited its pretty remarkable whats been achieved both on and off the field. Hes done a lot to repair the image of Pakistan cricket.

top player, top captain..


But yes i can argue that england are slightly better PSW

A border type, lead from the front, gritty type captain as well.

A ODI trophy would be the icing on the cake.

Always think a captain is defined by his team's results too much.

Ponting for example was a great leader of men, a great player as well, but was he a great cricketing captain? Personally I'd have Vaughan above him in terms of being tactically astute, likewise Stephen Fleming in that era.

Smith again is a good leader and makes the most of his comparably limited ability. As a tactician I feel he has always been too overly negative to be called a great. SA have drawn too many matches in his tenure given the fact that most times they outgunned the opposition.

I too rate Fleming very highly, perhaps the most intellectual? As for the too many draws, well its TEST cricket, and he has a better % than Clive Lloyd, who has never been criticized for not being attacking enough. Considering the fact that Smith was been the most disliked guy in the SA cricket fraternity since 2003 till two years ago for a variety of reasons (he was a pretty arrogant kid, bad early record, Private school Soutie, had a model Girl Friend, then a pretty messy break up, Pretty much kicked Lace Klusenar out of the team, the whole Brave Cricket era, to him frequenting clubs with Boucher) for him to still be standing is a feat in `if you ignore them long enough they will go away

Yes, a mate played with him in the early days. I know he didn't rate him as a player or a person at that time. He has however very much changed his opinion on him now although I still don't see him as a great captain.

Personally I only judge captains on win/loss records.. This is probally not fair. Because it clearly is also about the squad. But its the only quantifable thing to measure them on...

Any captain that has got to no.1 in the world is great in my opinion.

Graeme Smith is not a good lookin bats man. He doesn't come out as the nacest person walking the planet either.
Yet he has been one of the top openers of his era, a very effective batsman, has polished his interpersonal skills, has given his all leading his side, and always stood up as batsman when his side absolutely needed him to do so, particularly when leading the side to some spectacular test wins.
He became captain at a very young age after SA exited first round itself, from their own world cup. The betrayals of 3 years of ago were still fresh and hurting. The likes of Donald were getting done and it was an era of transformation. Smith led SA through all that, got together a fine outfit, backed his players and scored his runs when needed.
Now he has a fine record as captain, and achieved big things at the test level.
Overall, a very fine captain indeed.
Vaughan and Fleming for me were better in terms of tactics and out of the box thinking, but Smith as a captain, in overall analysis, matches up to the best of them.

sean- I remember watching Smith scoring a FC ton at the Wanderers in 2001. There was about 3 people there! I was about 7, at the time. Were you there that day?

But yeah, Graeme by all accounts has grown up. I remember him leaving Gauteng due to his fight with Ray Jennings. Although Jennings has fought with almost every second junior I know, including Quinton de Kock

kingraf wrote:sean- I remember watching Smith scoring a FC ton at the Wanderers in 2001. There was about 3 people there! I was about 7, at the time. Were you there that day?

No, I went on a cricket tour there in 1997 but that is the only time I've been.

Whilst I am busy looking at captaincy records I found the list of test players with most man of the match performances in test.

A little while ago we were talking about Kallis and many were of the opinion that he isn't rated as high as his contemporaries due to him not making enough impact in tests.

Lo and behold, he leads the list for most man of the match performances with 23

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283704.html

Does tell me something about percpetions we have, doesn't it?

seanmichaels wrote:Smith again is a good leader and makes the most of his comparably limited ability. As a tactician I feel he has always been too overly negative to be called a great. SA have drawn too many matches in his tenure given the fact that most times they outgunned the opposition.

I wonder if you are not simply anti Smith,

He captained 98 test with 26 draws, that measn he draws about 26.25% of his tests
Fleming drew 25/80 tests
Alan border drew 38/93 tests
Clive Loyd drew26/74 tests and that in the golden era of West Indies cricket.

mith has a win percentage of 46.93
Clive Loyd in the wonder era had a win percentage of 48,64.

Smith rates as one of the top captains of time.

I have already said I don't particularly rate him as a batsman but I do respect the fact that what he lacks in technique he more than makes up for in application and determination. As a captain I think he has done well with a very very good side but I don't think he's a great captain and I genuinely believe that not many people do think he's great.

I see a likeness in the way Alistair Cook goes about things. He is not the prettiest batsmen in the world either but has a stealy determination. I think Cook will be a good leader but he's not going to wow anyone with inspirational tactics or field positionings.

" I think Cook will be a good leader but he's not going to wow anyone with inspirational tactics or field positionings"

I thinik cook has alot more to him than that sean.. I have allready noticed some attacking stuff from him in his short spell..

Yeah, Smith is a pretty average batsman.

he is good enough though. many captains have average averages. its not what defines them

mystiroakey wrote:" I think Cook will be a good leader but he's not going to wow anyone with inspirational tactics or field positionings"

I thinik cook has alot more to him than that sean.. I have allready noticed some attacking stuff from him in his short spell..

I'd be happy to be wrong on that one, it is just a feeling I get. He has shown an ability at every stage of his career so far to learn and improve so although I'm sceptical that he'll become a captain with genius qualities, it wouldn't surprise me if he became one.

by the way just checked his average and its very good!!!

so no he isnt average is he!!

cook just allways looks so switched on.. never sweets. So fit. Intellegent. And as you say is a learner.

As long as he maintains that the sky is the limit. He is never ever afraid of getting better and improving- model pro!

Biltong wrote:Yeah, Smith is a pretty average batsman.

4th on the list of most runs as opening batsman
3rd on the list for most centureis for opening batsman
by memory heholds the record with two batsmen (McKensie and Gibbs for 4 triple century opening partnerships.

oh right you were being sarchy!!!!!

mystiroakey wrote:oh right you were being sarchy!!!!!

mystiroakey wrote:cook just allways looks so switched on.. never sweets. So fit. Intellegent. And as you say is a learner.

As long as he maintains that the sky is the limit. He is never ever afraid of getting better and improving- model pro!

He reminds me of Fleming in many ways (albeit with a much better conversion rate of 50s to 100s ).

Fleming's one great failing later in his captaincy career was ceding a lot of tactical control to John Bracewell - Braces was such a control freak he managed to stomp on a lot of Fleming's creativity. Though at least Flem's own coaching career seems to be pretty good so far

If Cook can avoid that loss of control ...

Fleming's other great failing (in hindsight) was putting G. Smith through the leadership wringer on the latter's 1st tour to NZ. Boy did that one come back to bite us

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Fleming's other great failing (in hindsight) was putting G. Smith through the leadership wringer on the latter's 1st tour to NZ. Boy did that one come back to bite us

More info please Pete, I am not sure what happened, too long ago?

What Smith has achieved in the last few years is very impressive let alone how he coped with the captaincy when taking it on very early. To those who criticise his tactical work in the field, captaining a side that lacks a real quality spinner (though Paul Harris was better than some make out) to balance the attack takes a good cricketing brain.

I'd agree from the last few years Fleming and Vaughan were two very good captains. They were two guys who always seemed to have another idea up their sleeve - sometimes they'd work, sometimes they wouldn't but they usually tried them at clever times which is the real skill in listening to a hunch.

Biltong wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Fleming's other great failing (in hindsight) was putting G. Smith through the leadership wringer on the latter's 1st tour to NZ. Boy did that one come back to bite us

More info please Pete, I am not sure what happened, too long ago?

When SA toured NZ in 2004 SA had a much better side (as they demonstrated in the tests). But in the ODIs Fleming gave Smith a captaincy lesson (including some well-judged on-field observations* that pushed Smith into some wrong options), and NZ won 5-1


*Not all of them were "sledges" per se. A fair few were though.

Ah, OK. So he learnt some valuable lessons.

As I said I respect Smith's batting, I just don't like it. Seen him on his arse too much after being planted in front of middle.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't think Ponting was a great captain. Shane Warne (the intended heir to SW) would have been great. When it comes to a 50-50 series where there's little difference between the sides, a captain shows his worth. Like Vaughan in the 2005 ashes. Ponting crumbled in that series and it will always be held against him.

Although the focus is rightly on test captaincy it will be very interesting to see how Smith gets on in captaining Surrey in the upcoming season. If, after the recent troubles and tragedy at the club, he turns Surrey into an effective team capable of challenging for trophies, that will help to demonstrate his added value as captain and that his test stats are not simply benefiting from having some of the best players in the world....

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Although the focus is rightly on test captaincy it will be very interesting to see how Smith gets on in captaining Surrey in the upcoming season. If, after the recent troubles and tragedy at the club, he turns Surrey into an effective team capable of challenging for trophies, that will help to demonstrate his added value as captain and that his test stats are not simply benefiting from having some of the best players in the world....

+1 We can only hope for the best Corporal!

Also we'll hopefully see how much Smith and to an extent KP have grown up since their early squabbles if they have to occasionally share a changing room for Surrey games.

king_carlos wrote:

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Although the focus is rightly on test captaincy it will be very interesting to see how Smith gets on in captaining Surrey in the upcoming season. If, after the recent troubles and tragedy at the club, he turns Surrey into an effective team capable of challenging for trophies, that will help to demonstrate his added value as captain and that his test stats are not simply benefiting from having some of the best players in the world....

+1 We can only hope for the best Corporal!

Also we'll hopefully see how much Smith and to an extent KP have grown up since their early squabbles if they have to occasionally share a changing room for Surrey games.

I would think their issues can be sorted out quickly, all smith has to do is show KP the way, and all will be sorted.

Feel a bit sorry for the guy in red - gets hit on the head a million times a day.....

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Feel a bit sorry for the guy in red - gets hit on the head a million times a day.....

they swop around when you aren't looking.