Englands EPS and Saxons announced

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England Senior Elite Player Squad (33)

Forwards (18)

Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (London Wasps)
Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (15)

Chris Ashton (Saracens)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

England Saxons Elite Player Squad (32)

Forwards (17)

Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby)
Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers)
Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints)
Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
Will Fraser (Saracens)
Joe Gray (Harlequins)
Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers)
Shaun Knight (Gloucester Rugby)
Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors)
Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors)
David Paice (London Irish)
Tom Palmer (London Wasps)
George Robson (Harlequins)
Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)
Billy Vunipola (London Wasps)

Backs (15)

Nick Abendanon (Bath Rugby)
Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Biggs (Bath Rugby)
Elliot Daly (London Wasps)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
George Lowe (Harlequins)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Ugo Monye (Harlequins)
Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby)
Joel Tomkins (Saracens)
Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins)
Christian Wade (London Wasps)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

In terms of continuity settle isn't that bad a pick.He has been around the squad a while,he got injured in SA but is coming into form at the right time.He hasn't had a lot of luck to be honest and doesn't have a great strike rate but does get chances,I have a feeling he will do well this 6 nations.regarding his defence does anyone remember his tip tackle on G.north in the 1st minute at twickers last year.don't write him off yet!

Clarke was found guilty and served his ban.time to move on from this.hopefully will make him a better player and person.

Those are 2 pretty good squads aren't they? Can't really complain there at all.

A saxons back line picked from that squad could be seriously good to watch!

The problem with Strettle is that I still remember him in that Envland vs NZ Maori game. Where between him and Tait, they let in 2-3 trys!

I'm sure he's improved defensively from then - but like others have said above, he doesnt have the greatest strike rate for a wing!

I would like a Saxons back line of -

Simpson
Ford
Wade
Eastmond
Lowe
Sharples
Abendanon

Bench-May, Daly, Tompkins

Tantalising backline prospect PDL!

propdavid_london wrote:I would like a Saxons back line of -

Simpson
Ford
Wade
Eastmond
Lowe
Sharples
Abendanon

Bench-May, Daly, Tompkins

You wouldn't want to play an inside centre?

Little side note, on the BBC rugby homepage (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/), there's a collage of 3 players over-pinning the EPS and Saxons squad announcements. There are pictures of Twelvetrees, Croft, and one Saints player I can only assume is meant to be Clarke. Anyone know who he is?

It's a small issue, but I honestly can't believe some people get paid to write so poorly about a sport people love.

propdavid_london wrote:The problem with Strettle is that I still remember him in that Envland vs NZ Maori game. Where between him and Tait, they let in 2-3 trys!

I'm sure he's improved defensively from then - but like others have said above, he doesnt have the greatest strike rate for a wing!

His tackling was his strong point when he played last winter.

Its the other aspects of his game ( ie the ones wings are generally picked for) he struggles with.

nathan wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

nathan wrote:

Jimpy wrote:I am not pleased Clarke is selected, regardless of form, he deliberately broke another player's arm and got a 32 week ban. He should not be considered on that basis alone.

Let it go will you, I understand there will always be a bit of hatred towards him but he did the time that was given to him. So long as he keeps his head down and works on his rugby I have no issues with him being the EPS.

Plenty agree with me.

And?

You chose to single my response out is what.

So how about this for the Saxons v Scotland up in Newcastle on Friday 1st Feb.

1 Mullan (Catt off the bench)
2 Gray
3 Doran Jones (Knight off the Bench)
4 Deacon
5 Kitchener
6 Slater
7 Kvesic (Fraser off the bench)
8 Vunipola

9 Wigglesworth
10 Ford
11 Wade
12 Turner Hall
13 Daly / Lowe
14 Eastmond / May
15 Abendanon

That would be a great team to watch I think Geordie, would like so see Tomkins get some game time too. Presumably that will be also be similar team for the England summer tour, I want to see most of that team really pushing for the full XV come next years AIs.

Can Daly or Lowe play 12? Those two in the centre could be a lovely combination. I really rate Lowe as a player- shame he got injured midweek in SA.

Daly can play 12 I think

Thanks CJ. Wouldn't mind seeing those two pairing up. Daly with his quick step, and Lowe off his shoulder. Could be good viewing.

Whoever makes the Saxons team, I hope they turn up against Scotland. That was embarrassing last year.

I am very happy with the EPS squad, glad to see Twelve trees and Billy V get a chance. Not so sure on Croft to be honest with him not being fully fit for the 6ns.

I think the team for the Scotland game will be the same team that played V the All Blacks. will be interesting too see who gets the 9-10 shirt for that game. You would say it should be Youngs and Farrell. But personaly would like to see Care and Burns start.

Regards Varndell not being in the squad i feel he may have had his chance and blown it.

Cannot comment on the Clarke issue not seen him play, so will wait and see on that.

Overall a squad with potential going forward on to 2015 rugby world cup.

Jimpy wrote:

nathan wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

nathan wrote:

Jimpy wrote:I am not pleased Clarke is selected, regardless of form, he deliberately broke another player's arm and got a 32 week ban. He should not be considered on that basis alone.

Let it go will you, I understand there will always be a bit of hatred towards him but he did the time that was given to him. So long as he keeps his head down and works on his rugby I have no issues with him being the EPS.

Plenty agree with me.

And?

You chose to single my response out is what.

yours was pretty much the first going along those lines, it's aimed at anyone who is still holding a grudge.

majesticimperialman wrote:I am very happy with the EPS squad, glad to see Twelve trees and Billy V get a chance. Not so sure on Croft to be honest with him not being fully fit for the 6ns.

I think the team for the Scotland game will be the same team that played V the All Blacks. will be interesting too see who gets the 9-10 shirt for that game. You would say it should be Youngs and Farrell. But personaly would like to see Care and Burns start.

Regards Varndell not being in the squad i feel he may have had his chance and blown it.

Cannot comment on the Clarke issue not seen him play, so will wait and see on that.

Overall a squad with potential going forward on to 2015 rugby world cup.

I'd imagine we'd see Burns come on as a sub, if they go well I think he'll get a start. I doubt Lancaster will promote him to a starting place after 20 minutes of play for England.

Burns' place will depend on how Flood goes in the next two weeks. I cant believe he wont start Farrell after the NZ game unless he has an absolute stinker in the HC games.
Its also pretty likely that he will want one attacking and one defensive option in the matchday squad. Which means Farrell and Flood or Burns.
Whilst I think Flood has to put in a decent display to get in the matchday squad I wouldnt be mazed to see burns miss out.


England are remarkably short of injuries at the minute. This is as much as a full strength EPS as I can ever remember England being able to call on.

majesticimperialman wrote:I am very happy with the EPS squad, glad to see Twelve trees and Billy V get a chance. Not so sure on Croft to be honest with him not being fully fit for the 6ns.

Ah well as Croft is recuperating from injury, Lancaster can keep him in the squad in cased by March he is flying but also call up someone else as an injury joker.

Apparently for the first training sessions Croft will stay at ~Leicester and be replaced by Billy Vunipola.

Keeping Croft in the EPS means that England retain control over his rehabilitation and when he plays. So if they deem him fit, and need him, they can call him up. Or force Tigers to rest him. And decide if he requires surgery, rest or the Argentina games over the summer
They can also name an injury replacement for him at any time should they need another utility flanker. He's obviously a player they still see has a long term future with England, hardly surprising.

Calum Clark????

In terms of sides from the two squads, for the Scotland game I'd like to see;

1.Corbs 2.Youngs 3.Cole 4.Launchberry 5.Parling 6.Wood 7.Robshaw 8.Morgan 9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.Foden 12.Twelvetrees 13.Tuilagi 14.Strettle 15.Brown
16.Hartley 17.Marler 18.Wilson 19.Lawes 20.Haskell 21.Care 22.Burns 23.Joseph

And for the Saxons;

1.Catt 2.Gray 3.PDJ 4.Kitchener 5.Deacon 6.Slater 7.Kvesic 8.Vunipola 9.Wigglesworth 10.Ford 11.Wade 12.Allen 13.Lowe 14.Monye 15.Abendanon
16.Paice 17.Mullan 18.Knight 19.Robson 20.Fraser 21.Simpson 22.Eastmond 23.Sharples

king_carlos wrote:In terms of sides from the two squads, for the Scotland game I'd like to see;

1.Corbs 2.Youngs 3.Cole 4.Launchberry 5.Parling 6.Wood 7.Robshaw 8.Morgan 9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.Foden 12.Twelvetrees 13.Tuilagi 14.Strettle 15.Brown
16.Hartley 17.Marler 18.Wilson 19.Lawes 20.Haskell 21.Care 22.Burns 23.Joseph

Spot on - perhaps apart from Strettle. But I can't see Barritt and Ashton being dropped. Try scorers against the All Blacks .

See i have picked Turner Hall at 12 for the Saxons for i still like one of my centres to have a bit of grunt about them...so we can go a bit route one when required...

So the EPS is as expected, bar the inclusion of Clarke. Bit uneasy with that one in truth. Roll on Scotland!

Alex_Germany wrote:

king_carlos wrote:In terms of sides from the two squads, for the Scotland game I'd like to see;

1.Corbs 2.Youngs 3.Cole 4.Launchberry 5.Parling 6.Wood 7.Robshaw 8.Morgan 9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.Foden 12.Twelvetrees 13.Tuilagi 14.Strettle 15.Brown
16.Hartley 17.Marler 18.Wilson 19.Lawes 20.Haskell 21.Care 22.Burns 23.Joseph

Spot on - perhaps apart from Strettle. But I can't see Barritt and Ashton being dropped. Try scorers against the All Blacks .

Good side Carlos, but I agree with Alex, I cant see Ashton going - shame though, not a fan of his.

I would have liked to see Wade, Kvesic and Garvey in there, ahead of Strettle, one of Waldrom or Johnson and Clark. None of them would make my matchday 23, but I feel it would be a good kicking off point for three players who should have a big part to play in England's future.

Overall it's a good EPS, good Saxons too.

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:

Alex_Germany wrote:

king_carlos wrote:In terms of sides from the two squads, for the Scotland game I'd like to see;

1.Corbs 2.Youngs 3.Cole 4.Launchberry 5.Parling 6.Wood 7.Robshaw 8.Morgan 9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.Foden 12.Twelvetrees 13.Tuilagi 14.Strettle 15.Brown
16.Hartley 17.Marler 18.Wilson 19.Lawes 20.Haskell 21.Care 22.Burns 23.Joseph

Spot on - perhaps apart from Strettle. But I can't see Barritt and Ashton being dropped. Try scorers against the All Blacks .

Good side Carlos, but I agree with Alex, I cant see Ashton going - shame though, not a fan of his.

Strettle has been brought in for the left Wing though I hope & expect Brown to retain his position there along with the rest of the team that played against the ABs.

SL stated Wade is pushing Ashton for the right wing position.

GeordieFalcon wrote:See i have picked Turner Hall at 12 for the Saxons for i still like one of my centres to have a bit of grunt about them...so we can go a bit route one when required...

I think 36 and Manu can both do that, and Brown is surprisingly powerful. Agree though that we need a mix of threats in the backs, Twelvetrees brings a kicking game and bit more attacking fluidity to the backline (hopefully).

I hope Brown stays, I like him and that niggly attitude. Good going forward & like yappy says surprising powerful.

Some exciting players across the squad, I can't wait to see who gets the shirts.

nathan wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

nathan wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

nathan wrote:

Jimpy wrote:I am not pleased Clarke is selected, regardless of form, he deliberately broke another player's arm and got a 32 week ban. He should not be considered on that basis alone.

Let it go will you, I understand there will always be a bit of hatred towards him but he did the time that was given to him. So long as he keeps his head down and works on his rugby I have no issues with him being the EPS.

Plenty agree with me.

And?

You chose to single my response out is what.

yours was pretty much the first going along those lines, it's aimed at anyone who is still holding a grudge.

You can't seriously be endorsing the inclusion of a thug like Clarke?

I'm not keen on Clark being in there, same as I'm uneasy about some of the non-English born qualifiers, but them's the rules. He served a lengthy ban, if he's in on merit then fair enough...8've not seen him enough to say.

You wouldn't want to play an inside centre?[/quote]

I thought that Eastmond had been playing 12 recently and Banahan 13! Oh have I got them reversed.

yappysnap wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:See i have picked Turner Hall at 12 for the Saxons for i still like one of my centres to have a bit of grunt about them...so we can go a bit route one when required...

I think 36 and Manu can both do that, and Brown is surprisingly powerful. Agree though that we need a mix of threats in the backs, Twelvetrees brings a kicking game and bit more attacking fluidity to the backline (hopefully).

Yappy, they're the 1st team...i was talking about the Saxons

GeordieFalcon wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:See i have picked Turner Hall at 12 for the Saxons for i still like one of my centres to have a bit of grunt about them...so we can go a bit route one when required...

I think 36 and Manu can both do that, and Brown is surprisingly powerful. Agree though that we need a mix of threats in the backs, Twelvetrees brings a kicking game and bit more attacking fluidity to the backline (hopefully).

Yappy, they're the 1st team...i was talking about the Saxons

I can see the justification of wanting another route one centre Geordie but I think the problem there at 12 or 13 is that other than Tuilagi none of our big centres are really viewed as Int class. As the Saxons is viewed as a springboard to the EPS I think the side there will always be determined by players the senior management think could challenge the top squad.

In terms of route one centres; at 12 Barrit, Twelvetrees and Allen are all much better players than JTH now IMO and at 13 if we've lost Tuilagi I think we'd have to play with a view to a bit more guile considering Joseph, Lowe and Daly are (rightly IMO) viewed as the next in line. We don't have that many good crash ball centres succeeding in the Jeff if we're honest - JTH is very solid at Quins, Banahan seems to be getting plaudits at Bath....

In terms of the Saxons I really like the look of a 12.Allen 13.Lowe partnership! Give them some decent front foot ball and 11.Monye/Sharples 14.Wade 15.Abendanon I think they could be lethal myself. It will also be a good chance to see Ford's play making ability with a back line like that and what should be a very strong pack.

Carlos

Tuilagi and Twelvetrees can certainly to the business physically. But what im calling for doesnt have to be a route one specialist...i just like to see a guy who has that bit more physcial presence to force it up the middle should it be required....if we cant break the defence down with skill.

A potential first team combo of Twelvetrees & Tuilagi could have the lot...especially with Burns pulling the strings.

The Saxons seem to be missing a little physicality with their centres such as Daly, Lowe, Allen etc...or am i doing them a little disservice??Are they actually more than capable of making some hard yards when required?

I think Lowe is actually quite physcial, despite his slight size in the modern game. He's certainly tenacious, but also has the speed.

Twelvewtrees is just blessed with a lot of attributes. He got the height and weight of a bruiser so can bust it up the middle and make the hard yards, but he's also got the added skills of deft touches and a lovely pass off both hands. I just really hope he kicks on this 6N.

Do the Saxons actually have any fixtures? They only have one fly half.

Lancaster has been talking about it being more of an integrated squad of 64/5 now as it was originally conceived, unlike under Ashton and Johnson where there was little direct contact between the two squads

Two games i believe Peter...one definately here in Newcastle 1st February v Scotland..not sure who the other is...maybe Ireland?

Yes i agree about the merged squads.

Many saying we only have 3 Second Rows in the Seniors...yes but there are Palmer Botha, Robson, Kitchener, Slater etc in the Saxons who will just move straight up if required....

I remeber reading that they do have fixtures but can't for the life of me find them. THink they play Scotland A on like, the 25th? Pretty sure someone on here has tickets.....Geordie??

I thought there was but can't find anything listed on the rfu site or elsewhere

If there are games they will surely need someone like Buns or36 in the side to cover ford

It will be interesting to see...unless they have earmarked giving Eastmond, Allen, FH understudy roles?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I thought there was but can't find anything listed on the rfu site or elsewhere

If there are games they will surely need someone like Buns or36 in the side to cover ford

The RFU website is terrible for listing the fixtures!

I suppose only one fly half was picked in the Saxons because who would be next?

Lamb and Myler - never shown themselves to be good enough

Cipriani - defensively fragile,inconsistent

Clegg and Botica - 2nd fiddle to Evans, limited opportunities

Heathcote - would have been picked in all likelihood but decided to follow his lifelong dream of playing for Scotland.

Any other contenders I missed?

bluestonevedder wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I thought there was but can't find anything listed on the rfu site or elsewhere

If there are games they will surely need someone like Buns or36 in the side to cover ford

The RFU website is terrible!

Fixed that for you bsv

Beshocked...

Feel free to try out a young FH for us Falcons called Joel Hodgson...

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I thought there was but can't find anything listed on the rfu site or elsewhere

If there are games they will surely need someone like Buns or36 in the side to cover ford

The RFU website is terrible!

Fixed that for you bsv

HA, appreciate it- cheers!

Why have the Sarries players been congratulating George Kruis on his call up? Is he an injury replacement for the saxons? Have been trawling the interwebs but can't find anything on him being called up???????