Haye reapplies for British licence.

Subject to medical checks the board are expected to accept his application, but could this mean a deal with Vitali is close?

Haye has constantly said he would only fight Vitali or retire, and mentioned they've been in talks for a while during his gyms open day. Haye vs Vitali this summer anyone?

Poor old David...I thought he'd have at least one Oscar nomination by now!!

Maybe the toe is stopping him getting his words out on cue???

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Poor old David...I thought he'd have at least one Oscar nomination by now!!

Maybe the toe is stopping him getting his words out on cue???

I thought you were a fan Truss? I remember you calling him an "asthetic joy to the heavyweight division". Why the change in heart?

let me down.............in the Wlad fight...lacked bottle.

I think Chisora is re-applying also isnt he? I imagine they will get licences which means the BBBC have pretty much accepted they got undermined and know they are powerless.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:let me down.............in the Wlad fight...lacked bottle.

Fair point,

I just think he realised just how good Wlad actually is, looked gun-shy because of the risk of the jab (which he so massively criticised). Wlad looked like a different boxer that night compared to the usual fat-old-ex-champs he is so used to fighting.

Whether Haye will be any better against Vitali is another matter. Is Vitali really easier to hit than Wlad? He uses a little more head movement and even if Haye does get through with a big punch, is he able to even wobble Vitali?

You're British...you are supposed to buy into to the toe theory!!

You may be on to something, Truss; I've spoken to a fella who, no word of a lie, says that the toe is the only reason that Haye didn't smash Wladimir in to oblivion and, better still, he actually scored their fight a draw in any case. Kid you not!

And no, it wasn't Dave before anyone asks!

I've also heard that Clint Eastwood saw a David Haye screen test... and retired in shame that very day!

If know drug cheats can be re-licenced, what difference does it make it two men who behaved violently at a press conference get their licence back. Similarly, if two brothers hold versions of the HW title but are strangely never made the other's mandatory fighter and never stripped of titles, then I fail to see how many aspects of boxing can be seen as acceptable.

Think the Wlad fight was a combination of unwillingness to engage and a realisation that he opponent was that bit better than he'd believed. They could still be fighting now and neither of them would look likely to hit the deck.

Still, given Haye is re-applying for his licence, one would hope that a fight with Vitali is on the cards or maybe Haye is going to fight someone else in the top ten and earn a shot at the titles.

You never know, maybe he's be called out by Tyson Fury

"I've also heard that Clint Eastwood saw a David Haye screen test... and retired in shame that very day!"
---------------------
If only it was true...I think it's more likely Clint rewatched his speech from the Presidential campaign and decided to call it a day.

Saw Haye on Soccer AM at the weekend, don’t know what is worst, the level of delusion of the bloke or the fact that there are still people who buy into his drivel. Pretty much said he wanted Vitali as Vitali needed a defining fight by which people would remember him by before he retired. Whilst this may be the case the idea that a former cruiserweight with an ordinary record at heavy who has already been chased out of the ring by his brother is such a fight is unbelievable. Really wish he would retire, to think he was once seen as the brave new dawn of the division. He fights with all the regularity that I do and refuses to even consider the possibility anyone outside of the brothers is worthy to share the ring with him, until they offer him a lot of money of course.

The sad fact is that there genuinely isn't a viable alternative to Haye with regards to a "defining fight"

Chances are that it WOULD be a defining fight for Vitali...namely, it defines him a fighter who, after that loss, never fought anyone remotely as good as Lennox Lewis again and we never got to see the full extent of his potential.

Vitali may go down as one of the leading lights in the HW "If only" club

More to do with how easily the BBBC are rolling over. Haye and Chisora didnt even serve out a punishment really. They just gave the BBBC the finger, did their own thing and are now reapplying. It would be complete surrender for the BBBC to cave on. Not actually all that fussed because I dont hold the BBBC in all that much esteem but they have been made look extremelly weak and are now probably going to oblige the very people made them look like that.

The problem is Manos the minute the Haye Chisora fight took place the BBBC were pretty much completely undermined. If they now refuse either a licence they just give Warren carte blanche to go down the Luxenbourg rote again, apparently Chisora has been attending anger management classes so he even has the argument he complied with their previous instructions. I agree that granting them a licence makes them look weak but my own view is they will do so grudgingly, they probably realise they have been outflanked by Frank and will probably want to draw a line under the whole incident and move on, unpalatable as it may be granting the licences is probably the quickest route to achieving this.

One would hope the whole debacle has served as an important lesson to the BBBC who would react differently should a similar incident take place. However, chances are they wouldn't as someone (probably Warren) will complain about the unfairness of it all and how the previous culprits weren't dealt with as harshly etc etc etc etc

Rowley wrote:The problem is Manos the minute the Haye Chisora fight took place the BBBC were pretty much completely undermined. If they now refuse either a licence they just give Warren carte blanche to go down the Luxenbourg rote again, apparently Chisora has been attending anger management classes so he even has the argument he complied with their previous instructions. I agree that granting them a licence makes them look weak but my own view is they will do so grudgingly, they probably realise they have been outflanked by Frank and will probably want to draw a line under the whole incident and move on, unpalatable as it may be granting the licences is probably the quickest route to achieving this.

I agree yes, there just isnt much they can do about it in reality. I dont even think their initial punishment was designed as anything more than a token gesture. Im pretty sure they always intended on queitly giving the pair their licences back low key when the hubbub had died down a bit and they wanted to be seen to act in the face of public outcry.

Privatley I think their concern was how undermined they were and exposed as being powerless. I cant stand that guy Robert Smith (I think?) that represents them.

Rowley wrote:Saw Haye on Soccer AM at the weekend, don’t know what is worst, the level of delusion of the bloke or the fact that there are still people who buy into his drivel. Pretty much said he wanted Vitali as Vitali needed a defining fight by which people would remember him by before he retired. Whilst this may be the case the idea that a former cruiserweight with an ordinary record at heavy who has already been chased out of the ring by his brother is such a fight is unbelievable. Really wish he would retire, to think he was once seen as the brave new dawn of the division. He fights with all the regularity that I do and refuses to even consider the possibility anyone outside of the brothers is worthy to share the ring with him, until they offer him a lot of money of course.

He's just bigging himself up, whcih is pretty normal, he's not really THAT delusional.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Rowley wrote:Saw Haye on Soccer AM at the weekend, don’t know what is worst, the level of delusion of the bloke or the fact that there are still people who buy into his drivel. Pretty much said he wanted Vitali as Vitali needed a defining fight by which people would remember him by before he retired. Whilst this may be the case the idea that a former cruiserweight with an ordinary record at heavy who has already been chased out of the ring by his brother is such a fight is unbelievable. Really wish he would retire, to think he was once seen as the brave new dawn of the division. He fights with all the regularity that I do and refuses to even consider the possibility anyone outside of the brothers is worthy to share the ring with him, until they offer him a lot of money of course.

He's just bigging himself up, whcih is pretty normal, he's not really THAT delusional.

Yeah I think he just says things like that to get the general public interested in it. He's on a show that is great exposure and if he can get the average football fan backing him he would have loads of people tuning in for the fight. Get it in the UK and he'd have a huge crowd as well.

Yeah I dont think Haye is delusional. Hes a smart salesman and hes trying to sell and promote himself. Its the people that continually take what he says as gospel and buy what hes selling that I would consider closer to delusional. Admittadly when he first moved up from cruiserweight I did believe him but it became increasingly obvious to me as his heavyweight campaign went on what he was all about. Genuinely cant understand how he attracts such loyalty from his hardcore followers. If he was delivering great excitement or putting himself on the line for the fans I could understand but he just hasnt really delivered even remotely on any of his claims or boasts.

DAVE667 wrote:The sad fact is that there genuinely isn't a viable alternative to Haye with regards to a "defining fight"

Chances are that it WOULD be a defining fight for Vitali...namely, it defines him a fighter who, after that loss, never fought anyone remotely as good as Lennox Lewis again and we never got to see the full extent of his potential.

Vitali may go down as one of the leading lights in the HW "If only" club

No not quite. VK will go down as a number 1 heavyweight of that time just after LL retired and cemented his place when he beat Sanders. I think his comeback has been very important because before that he was defined only for Sanders and more so for a losing effort to Lewis. However, he's mainly a very good titleist in a poor era so it's not really an If only.

I think Rowley's growing dislike for Haye is blinding him to the now de rigeur pre-fight hype that many fighters seem to engage in. Haye can be accused of exaggerating how poor the K's are and selling them short but in essence, he's right that neither of them have been fortunate to exist in an era when they could consistently test themselves again some of the sports finest HW.

It's unfair to beat them about the head too severely with that stick because in a roundabout way, Haye is also saying that he's part of a group of pretty mediocre HW who lack either the ability or personality to capture the public's imagination. These guys could fight each other on a weekly basis and hardly anyone outside their immediate family would care. With such a large group of also-rans to contend with in the HW division, Haye is doing what he considers best to get himself noticed.

Many years ago, Mayweather struggling to endear himself to the public at large irrespective of his ability. I'm not sure whether he was always an obnoxious little man or if he just dialled it right up and perhaps it's simply a sad endictment on society but these days, it appears that the bad boys garner more interest than anyone else.

I cant see Haye being considered a defining fight because he just hasnt done enough to set himself apart from the other contenders in this era.

Super D Boon wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:The sad fact is that there genuinely isn't a viable alternative to Haye with regards to a "defining fight"

Chances are that it WOULD be a defining fight for Vitali...namely, it defines him a fighter who, after that loss, never fought anyone remotely as good as Lennox Lewis again and we never got to see the full extent of his potential.

Vitali may go down as one of the leading lights in the HW "If only" club

No not quite. VK will go down as a number 1 heavyweight of that time just after LL retired and cemented his place when he beat Sanders. I think his comeback has been very important because before that he was defined only for Sanders and more so for a losing effort to Lewis. However, he's mainly a very good titleist in a poor era so it's not really an If only.

VK retired relatively quickly after the Sanders fight due to injury and didn't really establish himself as "the man". In the period before his return, his brother re-emerged but given his previous wobbles, he wasn't regarded as a dominant force and, like it or not, both their subsequent in-ring performances could be described as "solid but unspectacular"

If VK is "a very good titlist in a poor era" then of course he's an "if only" man (as in "if only he'd had a better calibre of fighters to try and extend him".) He's made pretty easy going of most of his defences and I've lost count of the number of times people have asked how he'd do against the likes of Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson etc. If only they'd had been around, we might not be so critical of his record which is littered with a "who's he?" of HW boxing

manos de piedra wrote:I cant see Haye being considered a defining fight because he just hasnt done enough to set himself apart from the other contenders in this era.

Couldn't agree more but Haye's banking on the vast majority of people he appealing to not appreciating that aspect. I'd suggest that those who warmed to him after his stint on "Celebrity" aren't going to be overly concerned that he hasn't regular bested the other HW contenders to make himself "the only fight out there". They'll think, "Oh it's that fella from the jungle, I know who he is and I'll watch this fight."

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:let me down.............in the Wlad fight...lacked bottle.

he didnt lack a bottle after the vitali/chisora fight

You'll have to bear in mind Eddy that the Haye naysayers will say that Chisora was sh.t anyway whilst conveniently forgetting that many of them praised his previous effort against Vitali. Funny that.......

DAVE667 wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:I cant see Haye being considered a defining fight because he just hasnt done enough to set himself apart from the other contenders in this era.

Couldn't agree more but Haye's banking on the vast majority of people he appealing to not appreciating that aspect. I'd suggest that those who warmed to him after his stint on "Celebrity" aren't going to be overly concerned that he hasn't regular bested the other HW contenders to make himself "the only fight out there". They'll think, "Oh it's that fella from the jungle, I know who he is and I'll watch this fight."

Probably, he has proven to be a good self promoter. But in a decade or two I cant see him leaping out of the Kbors resume as a stand out name. He will just be another contender they beat (if Vitali beats him).

DAVE667 wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:The sad fact is that there genuinely isn't a viable alternative to Haye with regards to a "defining fight"

Chances are that it WOULD be a defining fight for Vitali...namely, it defines him a fighter who, after that loss, never fought anyone remotely as good as Lennox Lewis again and we never got to see the full extent of his potential.

Vitali may go down as one of the leading lights in the HW "If only" club

No not quite. VK will go down as a number 1 heavyweight of that time just after LL retired and cemented his place when he beat Sanders. I think his comeback has been very important because before that he was defined only for Sanders and more so for a losing effort to Lewis. However, he's mainly a very good titleist in a poor era so it's not really an If only.

VK retired relatively quickly after the Sanders fight due to injury and didn't really establish himself as "the man". In the period before his return, his brother re-emerged but given his previous wobbles, he wasn't regarded as a dominant force and, like it or not, both their subsequent in-ring performances could be described as "solid but unspectacular"

If VK is "a very good titlist in a poor era" then of course he's an "if only" man (as in "if only he'd had a better calibre of fighters to try and extend him".) He's made pretty easy going of most of his defences and I've lost count of the number of times people have asked how he'd do against the likes of Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson etc. If only they'd had been around, we might not be so critical of his record which is littered with a "who's he?" of HW boxing

No. VK was the man at heavyweight when he beat Sanders - Sanders beat WK and Vitali beat (I dunno) but both top 3 fighters slugging it out VK was the man so not an "If Only". He then retired abruptly but his latest stint has ensured that as well as being the man for a ridiculously short time he has also accumulated a respectable reign as a titleist since coming back. I struggle to fins any "if onlys" in all that!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:let me down.............in the Wlad fight...lacked bottle.

lacked bottle? I think he done well, to beat then you got to not get hit and counter their jabs, he was doing well but its not easy hitting those guys.. The longer you are in the ring with WK the better your chance of catching him, which Haye did in the 11th or 12..

neither brother pushes for big fights, id say there at least 6-7 hard fights there for the brothers, but they prefer the likes of charr, mormeck and chisora.

Super D Boon wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:The sad fact is that there genuinely isn't a viable alternative to Haye with regards to a "defining fight"

Chances are that it WOULD be a defining fight for Vitali...namely, it defines him a fighter who, after that loss, never fought anyone remotely as good as Lennox Lewis again and we never got to see the full extent of his potential.

Vitali may go down as one of the leading lights in the HW "If only" club

No not quite. VK will go down as a number 1 heavyweight of that time just after LL retired and cemented his place when he beat Sanders. I think his comeback has been very important because before that he was defined only for Sanders and more so for a losing effort to Lewis. However, he's mainly a very good titleist in a poor era so it's not really an If only.

VK retired relatively quickly after the Sanders fight due to injury and didn't really establish himself as "the man". In the period before his return, his brother re-emerged but given his previous wobbles, he wasn't regarded as a dominant force and, like it or not, both their subsequent in-ring performances could be described as "solid but unspectacular"

If VK is "a very good titlist in a poor era" then of course he's an "if only" man (as in "if only he'd had a better calibre of fighters to try and extend him".) He's made pretty easy going of most of his defences and I've lost count of the number of times people have asked how he'd do against the likes of Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson etc. If only they'd had been around, we might not be so critical of his record which is littered with a "who's he?" of HW boxing

No. VK was the man at heavyweight when he beat Sanders - Sanders beat WK and Vitali beat (I dunno) but both top 3 fighters slugging it out VK was the man so not an "If Only". He then retired abruptly but his latest stint has ensured that as well as being the man for a ridiculously short time he has also accumulated a respectable reign as a titleist since coming back. I struggle to fins any "if onlys" in all that!

Boon, Vitali is an "If only" because irrespective of the fact he's beaten these #1 contenders, the vast majority of them would struggle to find work as sparring partners in bygone days. I'm saying it's too bad he didn't have a better quality of fighter to test himself against and in that respect he's an "if only" (If only he'd been able to face someone like Ali, Frazier, Foreman etc)

I'm not saying he's a bad fighter for existing in this era, I'm saying we may never know how good he may have really been as he never really got pushed by a better calibre of opponent.

"I think he done well"....

Haye has converted someone already...

DAVE667 wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:The sad fact is that there genuinely isn't a viable alternative to Haye with regards to a "defining fight"

Chances are that it WOULD be a defining fight for Vitali...namely, it defines him a fighter who, after that loss, never fought anyone remotely as good as Lennox Lewis again and we never got to see the full extent of his potential.

Vitali may go down as one of the leading lights in the HW "If only" club

No not quite. VK will go down as a number 1 heavyweight of that time just after LL retired and cemented his place when he beat Sanders. I think his comeback has been very important because before that he was defined only for Sanders and more so for a losing effort to Lewis. However, he's mainly a very good titleist in a poor era so it's not really an If only.

VK retired relatively quickly after the Sanders fight due to injury and didn't really establish himself as "the man". In the period before his return, his brother re-emerged but given his previous wobbles, he wasn't regarded as a dominant force and, like it or not, both their subsequent in-ring performances could be described as "solid but unspectacular"

If VK is "a very good titlist in a poor era" then of course he's an "if only" man (as in "if only he'd had a better calibre of fighters to try and extend him".) He's made pretty easy going of most of his defences and I've lost count of the number of times people have asked how he'd do against the likes of Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson etc. If only they'd had been around, we might not be so critical of his record which is littered with a "who's he?" of HW boxing

No. VK was the man at heavyweight when he beat Sanders - Sanders beat WK and Vitali beat (I dunno) but both top 3 fighters slugging it out VK was the man so not an "If Only". He then retired abruptly but his latest stint has ensured that as well as being the man for a ridiculously short time he has also accumulated a respectable reign as a titleist since coming back. I struggle to fins any "if onlys" in all that!

Boon, Vitali is an "If only" because irrespective of the fact he's beaten these #1 contenders, the vast majority of them would struggle to find work as sparring partners in bygone days. I'm saying it's too bad he didn't have a better quality of fighter to test himself against and in that respect he's an "if only" (If only he'd been able to face someone like Ali, Frazier, Foreman etc)

I'm not saying he's a bad fighter for existing in this era, I'm saying we may never know how good he may have really been as he never really got pushed by a better calibre of opponent.

I donl;t think though that that makes Vitali an "If Only". If we were making that out then Jack Johnson would have been an "if only" he'd have fought fellow black opposition "if only" Dempsey was not operating in the colour bar era, "If only" Lewis had fought Bowe etc.

Despite the poor op VK isn't fighting cherry picked bums. Despite the "who them?" names fighters like Arreola, Charr and Solis were unbeaten before they faced him so he's taking out the best available in his era plus, has been the main champ plus a respectable title reign. I would use an "if only" for someone like Audley Harrison or Kirkland Laing or someone but not Vitali.

Not fighting cherry picked bums....

Chisora got his shot by losing to Fury and Helenius before becoming a Klit-punchbag!!

"If only" rings true because If only half the guys from the 80's were around now then the Heavyweight division wouldn't be a laughing stock because the greatest prize in sports is being shared by a FAMILY!!!!!

Have I entered a alternate universe where TRUSS and I share the same (or at least similar) opinion on something.

Boon, to put it is some sort of perspective, Solis, Arreola and, dare I say, Sam Peter are some of the better names on his record. If that doesn't make you weep with frustration at what could have been, I don't know what will.

Sam Peter......Imagine If that slob had fought WITHERSPOON, PAGE or TUBBS!!

WBC champion as well!!

Brings back fond memories of Quick Tillis and Mitch Green.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Sam Peter......Imagine If that slob had fought WITHERSPOON, PAGE or TUBBS!!

WBC champion as well!!

Brings back fond memories of Quick Tillis and Mitch Green.

The Klits would have battered those fat slobs. I can't think of any of that trio of lard beating either bro apart from perhaps Witherspoon if he bothered to train. Apart from that Page et all would have been sent to the big McDonalds in the sky!

I'd pick Witherspoon to beat Vitali anyday......As a novice he was too good for prime Larry...

Tubbs and Page way too quick over 12....If both come in at 230...

The Buster that beat Tyson and Mccall jabs him silly...

I'd pick Bruno to do the job he did on Eklund against him!! Once he tasted a Bruno right he wouldn't come in aimlessly as he is prone to do..

I watched these guys you didn't...

A 38 year old over-weight Lewis beat him....Never..never..never ever forget that!!

How you can love Witherspoon Truss I never understand, lazy so and so, but give Chisora all the stick in the world for not being toally dedicated also.

Love Witherspoon......Nope..

But he had a decent record......Smith, Bruno, Tubbs, Page and an underserved split against Holmes!!

All better fighters than Sanders, Chisora and Hide.....

Vitali has not beaten anybody..

Bruno!!

Look Bruno was a clown and a robot with a decent dig so long as he fought my nan's postman or a slew of sewer attendants. He fought many such calibre of oppo and lost to anyone half decent apart from a McCall who was on funny tobacco at the time. Still Bruno couldn't finish him. If Lewis' right can't KO VK then Bruno's is not moving him. VK was undercooked for Lewis and Lewis being just 6lbs heavier (just a medium-sized poop for a big man) than the monster that slain Tyson.

Besides the era of Larry and the Fatties was not good either.

Larry and the Fatties...........(sounds like a good name for a band)

Outboxed a young Lewis early!! unlike some that struggled with an ancient version..

Bruno went into puppet mode when tagged, Vitali got a laceup. I know which perfromance I rate higher. Lewis was a bit green against Bruno but only partially on the wane against Vitali. As "old" as Lewis was he got out at the perfect time. He was still around his peak when he finished, just like Calzaghe was. It's only the Americans that seem to go on for 15 years after becoming shot!

Larry was garbage as was the rest of the 80's.......

You've convinced me......I've got Vitali number 3 now just in front of Johnson and foreman...

More garbage..

Say what you like about Frank but he only ever lost to Champions or those who went on to be Champions. Personally I think Frank takes Wlad to the cleaners but would struggle with Vitali who possesses enough of a good chin make it an interesting contest

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Love Witherspoon......Nope..

But he had a decent record......Smith, Bruno, Tubbs, Page and an underserved split against Holmes!!

All better fighters than Sanders, Chisora and Hide.....

Vitali has not beaten anybody..

Never shut up about him.

adamek was more of a defining fight for vitali than haye would be. adamek has a better record at heavy and at cruiser if that is supposed to count. adamek was also better supported by his home nation, so much so that vitali was able to go to poland and cash in on adameks fanbase, meaning he could fight again in germany as soon as he wanted without fear of over selling himself there. the only people that think haye is a massive fight for vitali live in england, read nuts magazine and watch sky sports news as their favourite past time.

DAVE667 wrote: Personally I think Frank takes Wlad to the cleaners

DAVE667 wrote: There's no way Bruno lives with the speed and reflexes of Haye

I know styles make fights but c'mon Dave.

Lance wrote:adamek was more of a defining fight for vitali than haye would be. adamek has a better record at heavy and at cruiser if that is supposed to count. adamek was also better supported by his home nation, so much so that vitali was able to go to poland and cash in on adameks fanbase, meaning he could fight again in germany as soon as he wanted without fear of over selling himself there. the only people that think haye is a massive fight for vitali live in england, read nuts magazine and watch sky sports news as their favourite past time.

Spot on. Haye is a fraud.

Frank on the front foot with that big jab takes away Wlad's main weapon. Wlad simply cannot fight going backwards and Frank is heavy handed enough to have Wlad back pedalling at the first sign of trouble thus negating any offense. Wlad is highly unlikely to go on the front foot in that match as he'd be wary of Frank's power so I'd suggest Bruno has the advantage.

As for Haye, he may or may not engage Frank but there's not way Frank can counter Haye. Bruno simply wasn't a counter puncher. Haye is unlikely to stand in front of him and let's not suggest Frank was a master at cutting off the ring. When tagged, Haye has enough smarts to get on his bike, Bruno doesn't. Frank wouldn't be scared but he'd certain be wary. Certainly if he watched the way Haye dispatched the Chisora (who took everything Vitali had and more).

Don't get me wrong, if he catches Haye flush, then there's going to be trouble but when you consider Bruno's weakness was that when hit on the chin, his brain shut down and the fight ended fairly soon afterwards, Haye certainly hits hard enough to get the job done