Nonito Donaire v Guillermo Rigondeaux

This fight is apparently in the process of negotiations at the moment.

How does everyone see it going?

I think it could be a bit of a stinker to be honest. After Rigondeaux feels Donaires power I think he'll do a bit of a runner and stink the place out. As long as Donaire doesn't get careless chasing after him he should be able to win a cagey fight with Rigondeaux, if Rigo chooses to be more open I can only see him being knocked out like anyone else who chooses to engage Donaire.

I don't want to start my "Donaire looks best against aggressive midgets debate".

So all i will say is the smart money would be on Donaire. Power and experience being the deciding factors if it goes his way..

However...

I'm hoping Rigo picks a spot, and T's off on Donnaires fleshy midriff; has him rolling around the floor in agony. I hope he can prove he is the BEST! It's a shame Rigo turned pro so late; he would need at least another 10 fights to make this fair, unfortunately time isn't on his side.

I hope he can pull this off, and if he doesn't...he's still better than donaire anyway

Unfortunately I don't think Rigondeaux could take Donaires power so an early knockout is on the cards.

Donaire absolutely batters Rigondeaux into submission and wins by KO.

Interestingly Donaire is looking to move up and face Chris John

I presume that Donaire's featherweight intentions are for a post-Rigondeaux and Mares world, Gerry?

A fight with John is intriguing and would make sense from a couple of angles, the first being the pan-Asian one that could make the contest a surprisingly large money-spinner. The other, of course, is that John has sat on a belt, defending every so often in Jakarta, for quite long enough. Possession of the WBA belt would make Donaire-Salido or Donaire-Garcia quite a big fight further down the track and give Nonito the chance to cement his claims to greatness.

Are they potentially talking about the end of 2013 for Donaire-John, do you happen to know, Gerry?

Interesting matchup as they each play to each other's weaknesses. Donaire loves a guy who comes at him and swarms, so Mares would be an assassination. Rigo looks best when he can time that left to the body. As his #1 fan pointed out, he'll be looking to drill that left to Donaire's midriff all night long and could make things uncomfortable.

The Marroquin fight makes me doubt Rigo's ability to survive this though. He was caught and shaken noticeably at least a couple of times, and although his survival instincts were excellent, if it was Donaire's sledgehammer of a left he'd still be unconscious. Agree with Mackem in that it's a shame he turned pro so late, but nobody forced him to rush into things, calling out Donaire when he only had 10 fights under his belt.

captain carrantuohil wrote:I presume that Donaire's featherweight intentions are for a post-Rigondeaux and Mares world, Gerry?

A fight with John is intriguing and would make sense from a couple of angles, the first being the pan-Asian one that could make the contest a surprisingly large money-spinner. The other, of course, is that John has sat on a belt, defending every so often in Jakarta, for quite long enough. Possession of the WBA belt would make Donaire-Salido or Donaire-Garcia quite a big fight further down the track and give Nonito the chance to cement his claims to greatness.

Are they potentially talking about the end of 2013 for Donaire-John, do you happen to know, Gerry?

CC yes Donaire has said he intends to fight 3 times in 2013. Would've been 4 but Mrs Donaire is expecting their first child.

Donaire says after the Rigondeaux fight, presuming he wins. He wants a rematch Darchinyan then move up to featherweight and fight John.

Unfortunately there won't be a fight with Mares. This stupid TR and GBP row is blocking the fight.

Why rematch Darchinyan??

Thanks, Gerry. Great shame about the Mares deadlock, but as JBW sugests, would confidently expect Donaire to finish Abner well inside schedule if they ever were to meet. Darchinyan, eh? Hasn't aged well, Vic, so it's all about the Rigo fight, isn't it? Think the Cuban might make Nonito work for a few rounds, but, and with all due apologies to TMM, I think that Donaire is the superior boxer and undoubtedly the harder hitter of the two. Late stoppage or reasonably comfortable decision for Nonito, I reckon.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Why rematch Darchinyan??

Beats me JBW, but Darchinyan has got himself back in the mix by beating Del Valle. I guess there's no one else really left at 122, Mares aside.

Rather generous there captain - If Rigo makes it out of the first round i'd be surprised.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Thanks, Gerry. Great shame about the Mares deadlock, but as JBW sugests, would confidently expect Donaire to finish Abner well inside schedule if they ever were to meet. Darchinyan, eh? Hasn't aged well, Vic, so it's all about the Rigo fight, isn't it? Think the Cuban might make Nonito work for a few rounds, but, and with all due apologies to TMM, I think that Donaire is the superior boxer and undoubtedly the harder hitter of the two. Late stoppage or reasonably comfortable decision for Nonito, I reckon.

I personally think GBP don't want Mares to face Donaire. GBP love an undefeated fighter.

You that confident, Shah? Rigo can box a bit, but he's just a greenhorn by comparison with Nonito. I think that Donaire is likely to take him into the deeper waters of the later rounds and drown him there.

Rigondeux is a good fighter but Donaire is on a different level and if Marroquin (cordoba got to him a couple times as well) can shake him and catch him as many times as he did then Donaire would lay him out

Donaire constant movement will make it hard for Rigondeux to set up his left hand to the body which is his money shot or get himself set enough to throw it with any power behind it. Donaire will have height ,reach, speed, power and stamina advantages of Rigondeux so I doubt rigo has the skills to make up for te disadvantages he will have on the fight

Shows Donaire's ambition to prove that he wants to be the greatest by fighting little known Rigondeux who is a really good fighter and John who is dangerous as he's always fighting in his backyard

Anyone else get the feeling Donaire's ambition and confidence may well be his undoing? Thankfully, he lost his 0 early and isn't bothered about protecting it. I can very much imagine him relentlessly setting new challenges until he eventually hits a wall.

I think hes too free with the right hand, that donaire will be exploiting the distance between rigos left and his body and that If rigo as expected lets the heavy artillery go early - and he probably will- he'll be waking up thinking hes got a hangover from his last friday night before his training camp started.

True JBW but Donaire might already be a great and anything above that is a bonus.

Donaire will probably KO him, its not like Rigo is going to avoid getting hit clean by a left hook and once it lands, its all over.

It could be his undoing eventually JBW but he's achieved enough already to be assured of greatness, all he's doing now is sprinkling the final touches on a fantastic career. There's no one in the super bantamweight or featherweight who I think beats him so it may be a case of stepping up to super featherweight and potentially running in to Gamboa.

It's possible, JBW, but how marvellous that we have someone prepared to test his limits so rigorously in the modern era. What's more, we can be sure that this is being done through skill and hard work, not something more sinister, because of Donaire's insistence on being tested at random intervals throughout the year.

Personally, I see featherweight and junior lightweight as tough, but achievable, assignments for Nonito. There are good fighters in both divisions at the moment, but no-one who really looks like a wrecking machine. Even if 126 or 130 prove a bridge too far, Donaire is already unquestionably a great to my mind, an all-time Top 50 pound for pound merchant. If he can make himself the man at 126, he is into territory explored by very few. I'm not sure that anyone in boxing history has ever been able to call himself the clear number one at 112, 118 and 126 during their careers, let alone also have cleaned out a division as strong as 122 and enjoyed a short, but entirely successful sojourn at 115. Three classic divisions and two juniors - that's the land of the immortals, I would say.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Anyone else get the feeling Donaire's ambition and confidence may well be his undoing? Thankfully, he lost his 0 early and isn't bothered about protecting it. I can very much imagine him relentlessly setting new challenges until he eventually hits a wall.

Can't see how there's anything wrong with that, challenging himself to be the best should be celebrated given how some go for the easy money. If he losses, so what, too much is made of losses. A loss to Salcido/John/Gamboa etc wont be too big a black mark considering he started at flyweight

Rigo is open to the left hook (jabs from the waist) which is Donaire's best punch so while he might avoid Donaire for a while it will land and Rigo will be hurt

He's already going down as one of the very best to fight below featherweight and could just go one to be the best

True, he'll definitely go down as a great, but Pacquiao's fall from grace over the past couple of years highlights recentism in my eyes.

Just how far his stock has fallen and how quickly his once landmark achievements are written off make me wonder how abruptly the same could happen to Nonito if he eventually gets himself steam rolled by, say, Gamboa. Suddenly the detractors would forget the fact he came from 112 to do it!

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Anyone else get the feeling Donaire's ambition and confidence may well be his undoing? Thankfully, he lost his 0 early and isn't bothered about protecting it. I can very much imagine him relentlessly setting new challenges until he eventually hits a wall.

Can't see how there's anything wrong with that, challenging himself to be the best should be celebrated given how some go for the easy money. If he losses, so what, too much is made of losses. A loss to Salcido/John/Gamboa etc wont be too big a black mark considering he started at flyweight

Rigo is open to the left hook (jabs from the waist) which is Donaire's best punch so while he might avoid Donaire for a while it will land and Rigo will be hurt

He's already going down as one of the very best to fight below featherweight and could just go one to be the best

Oh I agree there's nothing wrong with it. Infact it's utterly fantastic, but it'd be a shame for such a great fighter to end things in defeat to guys who are maybe simply too big for a former super flyweight to dent.

Everything Donaire does seems to be done with the intention of distancing himself from Pacquiao and he seems a far more intelligent man who hopefully would know when to stop. He doesn't crave the adulation of his country to the same degree.

If it happens to be someone like Garcia or Salido then you may have a point but if it was to be Gamboa then it would be a fight he has no right winning in the first place.

A couple of things with Pac to highlight, JBW - first is the fact that earlier in his title-collecting days, Manny didn't often stay long enough at any weight to establish his claim to be clearly the best in it. Exceptions at 122 and 130, but it was paradoxically only when he got above lightweight that he started to seem a dominant monster at various weights.

This of course leads us to the inescapable black cloud that separates Manny from Donaire and, for various reasons, is top of mind again today. How credible is it that a guy who was very good at 122, but by no means a legend, could develop to such an extent that he becomes a power-punching behemoth at 147? Nonito is simply repeating what he has accomplished at every weight, an apparently smooth and seamless progression that we know to be entirely on the level. Manny's progression has been literally incredible, at times, and anything other than orthodox. Questions will persist, however unfairly, and understandably so.

With Nonito, I simply marvel at what he has already achieved and, more particularly, how he has gone about it. I must uncomfortably acknowledge that I watch Pac with a little "yes, but" ringing in my head.

Their careers are totally different. Donaire does things with a certain aura that Manny never had, as he's always been a bit of an overachiever, but I can see a hypothetical future backlash should Donaire's success continue, and bring more popularity with it, when suddenly he's proven to be mortal against someone he - as Ghosty put it - has no right beating in the first place.

captain carrantuohil wrote:A couple of things with Pac to highlight, JBW - first is the fact that earlier in his title-collecting days, Manny didn't often stay long enough at any weight to establish his claim to be clearly the best in it. Exceptions at 122 and 130, but it was paradoxically only when he got above lightweight that he started to seem a dominant monster at various weights.

This of course leads us to the inescapable black cloud that separates Manny from Donaire and, for various reasons, is top of mind again today. How credible is it that a guy who was very good at 122, but by no means a legend, could develop to such an extent that he becomes a power-punching behemoth at 147? Nonito is simply repeating what he has accomplished at every weight, an apparently smooth and seamless progression that we know to be entirely on the level. Manny's progression has been literally incredible, at times, and anything other than orthodox. Questions will persist, however unfairly, and understandably so.

With Nonito, I simply marvel at what he has already achieved and, more particularly, how he has gone about it. I must uncomfortably acknowledge that I watch Pac with a little "yes, but" ringing in my head.

Lightweight and above though, he only really established himself as the best at light welter, and that was only 1 fight he had at the weight.

Given the number of weight classes now and the multi belt politics I dont really like punishing fighters for not dominating divisions if they are taking on better challengers in other divisions. Id have to say that Pacquiaos collections of wins below 135lb would suggest he was the best overall fighter at the time below lightweight. Some might state a case for JMM who was a quality fighter himself but I still think Pacquiaos acheivements even below lightweight better JMM.

If you were to look at it mainly from the aspect of cleaning up divisions then its maybe only 125 and 140 (even then a stretch considering it was 1 fight) that Pacquiao could say he ranked as the top guy. But taking his wins as a collection across all the weights I think paints a better picture regardless of what belts he did/didnt hold etc. He basically beat most of the top fighters across many weight classes.

I dont know about that JBW - Donaire seems to be without reproach in everything - no catchweights, gets tested allyear round and just goes about knocking people out without fuss or conditions. What Pacquaio achieved was incredible but there is so much to question. How many were shot by the time pac fought em? ODLH, Mosely, Margarito - the good wins in that run were Diaz, Hatton, Cotto and Clottey (Mr peek but wont say boo to a ghost) thats a good run but there is much to ask. Even Roach was saying before some of the fights - no he wont win hes past it.

Your right about Donaire maybe pushing himself to hard coming back to bite him. The guy was a massive puncher at Bantamweight and as far as I'm aware didn't struggle making weight but after smashing Montiel to pieces decided to move on up as there was nothing left for him there. Once he's done with Super Bantam he'll move on up again and give up more physical advantages, you can only do that so many times before you run into someone you just can't damage. Really hope he doesn't go above Featherweight as I think that will be too big for him and there are many good fights for him at Super Bantam and Featherweight. Donaire easily my favourite boxer of this generation.

ShahenshahG wrote:I dont know about that JBW - Donaire seems to be without reproach in everything - no catchweights, gets tested allyear round and just goes about knocking people out without fuss or conditions. What Pacquaio achieved was incredible but there is so much to question. How many were shot by the time pac fought em? ODLH, Mosely, Margarito - the good wins in that run were Diaz, Hatton, Cotto and Clottey (Mr peek but wont say boo to a ghost) thats a good run but there is much to ask. Even Roach was saying before some of the fights - no he wont win hes past it.

I don't want to turn this into another revisit to Manny's victories thread but in short
ODLH - Shot, but it was he who offered Pac the fight at 142 was it not? Seen as a mismatch in favour of Oscar before hand.
Mosely - Yep, washed up but there were actually very few fights at 147 more worthwhile. It was seen as more challenging than JMM at the time.
Maragrito - Shot, but that wasn't meant to be a walk over. That youtube dude, dwyer, was predicting Margarito WTKO6.

Roach said JMM would be knocked down 5 times in the third fight. He was wrong.

Anyway as I said, their careers are different, but all this skepticism towards Pacquiao's career was an alternative view when he was undisputed P4P#1 and bookies favourite over Mayweather. The public turn around has been massive since he looked more vulnerable in the ring. If people want to find holes in anyone's record they could, and although I can't see any in Donaire's, you can bet if he starts losing - no matter how much the odds are stacked against him - revisionist historians will find holes, and if they can't be found they will be created.

Mine too, bellchees - I really do like the methodical way in which Donaire sets himself targets and then sets about meeting them.

Manos, I think that may be the problem with my slightly OCD mind - I really like this orderly advance of Nonito's. Establish yourself as the best in the division, then move on. Donaire has done that for every division bar 115, and I love the fact that there are no loose ends. His progress at bantam and super bantam have been especially copybook. At 118, he couldn't get the last fight that he needed, so he moved on to the next challenge. At 122, he's overcoming every credible challenger one after another.

Appreciate your comments re Pac, but I still prefer Donaire's CV to his as far as 122 and below is concerned. Doubtful that he will even approach what Manny has achieved at 130 and beyond, but as I say, I do have slight misgivings there.

I would agree that 122 and below Donaire has better wins and more dominance. But Pacquiaos legacy is mainly built above those divisions and I think he has a much stronger cv there. I think there are way too many weights lower down and numerous titles so I just emphasise wins alot more than divisional acheivements. Although Donaire is accumulating both. But when you consider when Pacquiao beat MAB who and Hatton they held no meaningful alphabet title but were ranked as the best in the division (think MAB might have been ranked 2 or 3 p4p in the world) then it highlights the difficulty.

My view with the whole PEDS thing is basically I wouldnt be surprised either way and that applies to pretty much any boxer.

Too many divisions lower down the scale - absolutely agree there. This is why I feel that 126 is the division that will really underline Donaire's claim to be one of the all-time elite. To have been the true capo at fly, bantam and feather has been the holy grail of the smaller fighters, one that the great Harada almost managed, but no-one else. If Donaire can duplicate at 126 what he has done at 122 (no sure thing for a great super-bantam, as Gomez proved), then I shall be happy to regard Donaire as one of the two greatest ever to have operated in the lower weights and a top 20 all-time man.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:I dont know about that JBW - Donaire seems to be without reproach in everything - no catchweights, gets tested allyear round and just goes about knocking people out without fuss or conditions. What Pacquaio achieved was incredible but there is so much to question. How many were shot by the time pac fought em? ODLH, Mosely, Margarito - the good wins in that run were Diaz, Hatton, Cotto and Clottey (Mr peek but wont say boo to a ghost) thats a good run but there is much to ask. Even Roach was saying before some of the fights - no he wont win hes past it.

I don't want to turn this into another revisit to Manny's victories thread but in short
ODLH - Shot, but it was he who offered Pac the fight at 142 was it not? Seen as a mismatch in favour of Oscar before hand.
Mosely - Yep, washed up but there were actually very few fights at 147 more worthwhile. It was seen as more challenging than JMM at the time.
Maragrito - Shot, but that wasn't meant to be a walk over. That youtube dude, dwyer, was predicting Margarito WTKO6.

Roach said JMM would be knocked down 5 times in the third fight. He was wrong.

Anyway as I said, their careers are different, but all this skepticism towards Pacquiao's career was an alternative view when he was undisputed P4P#1 and bookies favourite over Mayweather. The public turn around has been massive since he looked more vulnerable in the ring. If people want to find holes in anyone's record they could, and although I can't see any in Donaire's, you can bet if he starts losing - no matter how much the odds are stacked against him - revisionist historians will find holes, and if they can't be found they will be created.

With regards to that - I'm not questioning his courage or saying that he sought out the easy fights - yes he took what was seen as a huge risk and was predicted to get battered badly but with hidsight what does it mean? Practically nothing because Oscar was weight drained, Shot and should really have been force fed. Its the same with Lewis Golota - Lewis took on a tough tough fight and I thought he'd struggle but he blew him over like he wasnt even there. Then it was revealed that Golota had a fit in the dressing room and had been injected (and fined post fight when results came in positive) with an injection of which the side affects are nausea, dizziness and blurry vision. That Lewis took him on is not an issue - its just not a great win same with DLH. What people say before the fight has little bearing afterwards unless they are questioning his mettle or ambition. I'm not.

I think Pacquiao jumping through the divisions so often has watered down the quality on his resume; Morales, Barrera, Marquez, Hatton and Cotto stand out with the rest being a bit of a disappointment in comparison, he's a great fighter with a great record but too much is made of his weight hopping.

Agree that if Donaire takes 126 by the scruff of the neck he will be an all time top 20, which is amazing to think a few years ago he was just the guy who upset Darchinyan and noone knew much about him. Anything at 130 is a bonus, say beating Gamboa (Which is a too much in my view) would jump him into a top 10 or at least 15 spot no problem.

RE: Rigo, I think Nonito takes him out in real style, if somebody is open to a left hook Donaire will find it, mind you, Rigo may end up really watching out for it taking that punch away. Even so I don't Rigo is active enough to win a decision.

This is worth a watch....

Highlights of Donaire, with some dude dissing him...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBv4zogS6vA

In that video Donaire's shot selection from 2:50 till 3:20 is idiotic. And some of the shots Donaire was caught with?? They were telegraphed a mile off but still got through.

Straws. Clutching. At.

But you do defend your favourite with zeal, I must say.

Most desperately pathetic thing ive seen yet.

What a load of tosh, i'd rather judge him on this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfZCCU5hwC4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-OKHDsHjGg

ShahenshahG wrote:Most desperately pathetic thing ive seen yet.

hahaha!!

Said by an amateur after being overlooked for a pro contract with anyone of note

Imperial Ghosty wrote:What a load of tosh, i'd rather judge him on this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfZCCU5hwC4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-OKHDsHjGg

I not denying Donaires power. It is awsome. He also does well against little game fighters. both videos prove this.

6 times world champion
3 lineal world titles
2 knockout of the year awards
Fighter of the year Award

All done across 4 weights, yes he's a right amateur.

Come on Ghosty do you really want to go down the achievement route? Bad move when discussing Rigo.

I don't really care for amateur titles Mackem especially when we're considering a pro fighter, in the pro ranks Rigondeaux hasn't done a lot.

What are pathetic video, the bias agaisnt Donaire is laughable

Throughout the entire fight he finds about 30 seconds of footage where he gets caught in a fight where he injured his hand early

What's with the amateur footage of Rigondeux, can't they find any half decent showings of Rigo since he made the move to the pro ranks 4 year ago. When te only decent footage is against Teon Kennedy it show's how out if depth Rigo is

Why doesn't he show Marroquin rocking him too his boots or Cordoba almost beating him

Take away the head guards and 12 round fights then it don't matter this good you are as an amateur