HC pool stages - how the six countries performed

Just an academic exercise on how the six countries performed in the HC group stages. Draw your own conclusions

England W21 D1 L14 - 59.7% win record
Ireland W16 D0 L8 - 66.6% win record
France W24 D0 L12 - 66.6% win record
Wales W3 D1 L14 - 19.4% win record
Scotland W1 D0 L11 - 8.3% win record
Italy W1 D0 L11 - 8.3% win record

English, Irish and French all performed pretty well, Welsh and Scots pretty abysmal, Italy no worse than you would have expected at the beginning and probably a bit better (at least Treviso won a game)

This point is interesting, last Jan I was asked by a current pro if I thought Ireland would sweep all before them inc Wales first up, the provinces were destroying people for fun, Leinster were walking games and the national players were looking top notch!

My reply was simple, if Ireland go into the first game beleiving that theyre in trouble, they never, and they were the better side but the wind was knocked clean out of them with that 1/2p penalty. IMHO had Ireland won that game they wouldve won the championship, and I think the exact same applies this year.

Ireland need a good performance, to win and win well, against a team struggling for results, lost 5 key players inc all their lock options, and who's clubs are being beaten like they did something wrong.

If Ireland turn up and play the way their clubs can Wales will be hammered and the green truck will well and truly be on it's way to a championship, but lets hope I'm wrong!!!

I agree bluesmancometh. If Ireland beat Wales away in their first game they'll be well on their way because their toughest opposition are at home - France and England.

Similar to Wales last year, except Ireland were slight fav's last year and prob will be this year too.

The HC pool stages has not been a particularly good indicator of what will happen in the 6N. The Welsh grand slam last year, following no Regions quaifying for the HC q/s is evidence of that. Plus a total of 3 slams whilst no Region made a HC final.

Similarly, Ireland's recent dominance of the HC has only yielded one 6N slam.

The only countries where you could use the HC as a 6N indicator are Scotland and Italy, but in a negative way.

Ireland will lose three. They are a confused mess that don't seem to have a coherent style of play from one game to the next. They struggle to score against a blitz defence and they expend huge amounts of energy chasing kicks to nothing and making tackle after tackle because they kick so much possession away. The pack can sometimes raise their game to ferocious levels in one off games but that can't seem to be sustained over 2 games, let alone 5.

We've wasted the last 3 years switching between neanderthal rugby and no discernible plan at all. We should have based our game and most of our personnel around the fabulous Leinster side of the last 4 years. Like Spain did with Barcelona. But we didn't. That Leinster side is passed its peak and the opportunity has been wasted.

We need to start from scratch next year under new management. I have no hope for this year. I've no doubt there'll be some very encouraging individual performances but the system in place is not addressing past failings, let alone evolving. We've been getting steadily worse for years. Provincial form is irrelevant when the style of rugby the test team play bears absolutely no relation to what the players are doing at their provinces.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Ireland will lose three. They are a confused mess that don't seem to have a coherent style of play from one game to the next. They struggle to score against a blitz defence and they expend huge amounts of energy chasing kicks to nothing and making tackle after tackle because they kick so much possession away. The pack can sometimes raise their game to ferocious levels in one off games but that can't seem to be sustained over 2 games, let alone 5.

We've wasted the last 3 years switching between neanderthal rugby and no discernible plan at all. We should have based our game and most of our personnel around the fabulous Leinster side of the last 4 years. Like Spain did with Barcelona. But we didn't. That Leinster side is passed its peak and the opportunity has been wasted.

We need to start from scratch next year under new management. I have no hope for this year. I've no doubt there'll be some very encouraging individual performances but the system in place is not addressing past failings, let alone evolving. We've been getting steadily worse for years. Provincial form is irrelevant when the style of rugby the test team play bears absolutely no relation to what the players are doing at their provinces.

So you don't think they'll do well then?

No I don't. Just to clear that up.

Have to agree Feckless, can't see Ireland doing anything much in this 6N. In some ways I'm not too fussed as it might mean a few less Irish players taken on the punishing Lions tour and hopefully would guarantee the Kidney clock doesn't have to be reset back two years.

Wales have a bigger chance of receiving the wooden spoon than they have of getting into the top two or three if you ask me. The fact that the English and the French can just throw money at our players has disrupted us no end, all our best players are spread across the European leagues and we have no direction of on which way we are going, this will continue to happen until the WRU come up with something that is good for Wales and Welsh rugby not the WRU. We have gone from grand slammers to Autumn whitewash and European humiliation, we need something done sooner rather than later.

LordDowlais wrote:Wales have a bigger chance of receiving the wooden spoon than they have of getting into the top two or three if you ask me. The fact that the English and the French can just throw money at our players has disrupted us no end, all our best players are spread across the European leagues and we have no direction of on which way we are going, this will continue to happen until the WRU come up with something that is good for Wales and Welsh rugby not the WRU. We have gone from grand slammers to Autumn whitewash and European humiliation, we need something done sooner rather than later.

not trying to WUM, but when have the regions ever done well in the HC?

nathan wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Wales have a bigger chance of receiving the wooden spoon than they have of getting into the top two or three if you ask me. The fact that the English and the French can just throw money at our players has disrupted us no end, all our best players are spread across the European leagues and we have no direction of on which way we are going, this will continue to happen until the WRU come up with something that is good for Wales and Welsh rugby not the WRU. We have gone from grand slammers to Autumn whitewash and European humiliation, we need something done sooner rather than later.

not trying to WUM, but when have the regions ever done well in the HC?

Scarlets were unbeaten until the semis in 07 Beating Toulouse home and away. Blues were semi finalists in 09

Lets not forget the Almin win for the Blues and the Ospreys were regulars in the quarters for a bit.

LordDowlais wrote:Lets not forget the Almin win for the Blues and the Ospreys were regulars in the quarters for a bit.

Until the reshuffle prior to last season we were...! But never made the Semi finals.

The re-organisation of regions, less NWQs and more academy talent vs the buying power of the rest of Europe's big spenders has created an uneven playing field...

LordDowlais wrote:All our best players are spread across the European leagues

Most play in the Pro 12.

Not really topical to this thread, but it's one of my highlights of the weekend - the Wayne Barnes "falcon"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=C7a3J59Xrh0

Not topical Pete, but it brightened up my lunch break!

Pity it wasn't Sexton or Steenson doing it to Poite in the Chiefs-Leinster game. God, the main in an awful plank

brennomac wrote:Pity it wasn't Sexton or Steenson doing it to Poite in the Chiefs-Leinster game. God, the main in an awful plank

We English are quite big fans of M. Poite, actually. When he reffed the Munster-Quins Amlin SF a couple of years back, he refused to be intimidated by the Thomond crowd and made a number of very gutsy decisions which on replay were pretty much all spot on.