Tigers confirm Ford to depart

Now confirmed that he's leaving, probably to Bath (so much for the earlier denials)
Time will tell if he's made the right decision but as a young lad I feel his advisers have let him down.

If he want's more game time it will be interesting to see what Heathcote does if Bath is his destination. Doesn't make much sense.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/George-Ford-leave-Leicester-Tigers-summer/story-17928917-detail/story.html

Very disappointed. He was coming on well, looked set to wrack up more than 20 appearences for Tigers this season and had progressed to the Saxons.

I doubt he has the reliability from the boot to maintain a starting berth elsewhere so he's probably trading one backup role for another. I can only assume he's been ill advised.

Not the best move from his perspective in my opinion. Expect him, Garvey, Joseph and Watson to all end up at Bath. Not sure it is the best move for any of those four players to be honest.

If both Ford and Heathcoat realise their full potential Bath could be missing two 10's for the AI's and the 6N's. I wonder what Heathcote who is at a similar level in his development will make of thisa his rival for the shirt being the Coaches son. Come on Tigers, let's have a word with Heathcoat
when his contract's up!

I dismissed all the rumors i have to say - would have though he'd stay at Tigers.

Interesting times, not sure what they stratey behind the move is though, basically trading one back up role for another back up role.

As a 19 year old perhaps he prefers to be back up where his Dad could be of influence. We all know of lots of instances where working with your parents can prove tricky though.

Just not sure what kind of message Bath are sending to the equally young and talented Scottish qualified lad.

Continues the new trend of Tigers' players moving to Bath.

Who will be Ford's replacement at Tigers?

I think Bath will sign Garvey and Joseph but miss out on Anthony Watson.

Would make sense for both players in my opinion.

IMO Leicester badly need a long term solution to Murphy, Anthony Watson could fit the bill.

Predictable, with Tobias at the helm. Guessed it ages ago and was lambasted, thought he'd end up at Saints though.

I am trying to not let my natural anti-Bath bias take over, but I do get fed up with their transfer PR machine. Toby Booth said a few weeks ago that categorically Ford would not be joining them, stating his father as the source. What a load of codswallop that's proved to be! There was no need to issue such a denial, he could have just ignored the question. Unless of course I am doing him a disservice and Ford is going elsewhere...

If Bath is his destination he will get a lot more game time there than at Tigers. He will play behind a weaker pack than at Tigers too, so all in all this could be very good for his development. I can understand why Tigers' fans would be disappointed, but that is now 2 up and coming creative players that have moved on as they weren't getting the opportunity at Tigers (36 being the other). Is this something that needs to be addressed?

HK, why will he get more game time when they have the excellent Heathcoat as the current incumbent?

If he was in his 30's at the end of a career it would make sense but two young International 10's who both want game time?

International 10s? I think you exaggerate there a bit tigerleghorn.

In the AP I would rate the following above the both of them:Evans,Hodgson,Farrell,Burns, Flood and S.Jones.

Probably Myler,Lamb,Mieres,Gordon Ross,Robinson and Andy Goode too.

Still at least they are above Cipriani and Donald.

tigerleghorn wrote:HK, why will he get more game time when they have the excellent Heathcoat as the current incumbent?

If he was in his 30's at the end of a career it would make sense but two young International 10's who both want game time?

I do rate Heathcote, but I haven't seen anything to suggest he is a better player than Ford. Added to that I'm pretty sure Heathcote can play 12, so that combination may be of mutual benefit to all parties. Without offending my Celtic cousins you do have to ask why Heathcote chose to represent Scotland. The cynic in me is that he felt his way into the England set up was barred due to the various young talented 10s in England at present, with Ford being one of the front runners.

I think Bath will have their work cut out to keep Heathcoat. When's his contract up Bath fans?

I should have said that they are both probable future International 10's

Big shame for Tigers, and Ford. Hopefully it doesn't prove to be a huge mistake.

Heathcote is already an international, Leghorn.

I think that's a poor decision from Ford. The whiff of nepotism is going to follow him around the Bath squad now, whether that's fair or based in reality or not. If I was Heathcote, I would see which way the wind was blowing in the off-season and if there's talk about 'rotations' between him and George (rather than being told that the shirt is his to lose), then I would scarper.

What's more annoying is that Edinburgh have just signed Francis as a 10, whereas clearly Heathcote would have been the better option for them for a number of reasons.

George Carlin wrote:Heathcote is already an international, Leghorn.

I think that's a poor decision from Ford. The whiff of nepotism is going to follow him around the Bath squad now, whether that's fair or based in reality or not. If I was Heathcote, I would see which way the wind was blowing in the off-season and if there's talk about 'rotations' between him and George (rather than being told that the shirt is his to lose), then I would scarper.

What's more annoying is that Edinburgh have just signed Francis as a 10, whereas clearly Heathcote would have been the better option for them for a number of reasons.

Nepotism? I don't think so. Farrell Jr gets accused of that but do you think he cares? Why Would Ford care?

Lost a lot of respect for Heathcote for taking the far easier route to international rugby. What is it about the no 10 Scotland jumper that makes youngsters from other countries want to wear it?

beshocked wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Heathcote is already an international, Leghorn.

I think that's a poor decision from Ford. The whiff of nepotism is going to follow him around the Bath squad now, whether that's fair or based in reality or not. If I was Heathcote, I would see which way the wind was blowing in the off-season and if there's talk about 'rotations' between him and George (rather than being told that the shirt is his to lose), then I would scarper.

What's more annoying is that Edinburgh have just signed Francis as a 10, whereas clearly Heathcote would have been the better option for them for a number of reasons.

Nepotism? I don't think so. Farrell Jr gets accused of that but do you think he cares? Why Would Ford care?

Lost a lot of respect for Heathcote for taking the far easier route to international rugby. What is it about the no 10 Scotland jumper that makes youngsters from other countries want to wear it?

Apart from the historical prestige, the thought of the legends who have worn it before and on whose shoulders you are now standing and the privilege of playing international rugby for a proud nation, I really can't think of anything.

Quote Beshocked: "Lost a lot of respect for Heathcote for taking the far easier route to international rugby."

I don't think you can blame him for that. Is it a tenuous connection he has to Scotland?

What kind of respect do you have for Barritt?

Heathcote is signed up for next season too so the 2 20 year olds will be fighting it out for the shirt. Heathcote hasn't played that well since coming back from injury actually, the idea of him playing as a 12 with Ford is an interesting one, I may be wrong but didnt that happen for the u20's at one point?

Gold has shown more desire for a big 12 so far, but I see no reason why Heathcote can't develop into an Barkley style 12/10.

tigerleghorn wrote:Quote Beshocked: "Lost a lot of respect for Heathcote for taking the far easier route to international rugby."

I don't think you can blame him for that. Is it a tenuous connection he has to Scotland?

What kind of respect do you have for Barritt?

Heathcote is qualified due to the rather 'direct' route of having been born in Inverness.

Beshocked - to answer your question, yes, it would bother me if there was the slightest chance that my team mates thought I was getting selected on anything other than merit. But what the hey, that's just me.

Is Fords lack of Physical presence playing a part in this? ie Does Cockerill think hes not big enough etc?

tigerleghorn wrote:Quote Beshocked: "Lost a lot of respect for Heathcote for taking the far easier route to international rugby."

I don't think you can blame him for that. Is it a tenuous connection he has to Scotland?

What kind of respect do you have for Barritt?

I don't think Brad Barritt necessarily took the easier route. He was at the time a young prospect at the Sharks and very successful I believe. If he stayed in SA he could have pushed for a spot in the SA squad.

Instead he came to England to a Saracens side at the time was not doing very well. Took quite a while before getting a Saxons call up and England call up so not easy at all.

Heathcote is different scenario because he's playing at an English club, he's played all his rugby at England age level. He simply doesn't think he's good enough to get in the England squad.

Ford was offered a two year contract with a substantial pay rise. He asked for guaranteed starting berth and was told he'd have to earn it but would be given sufficient game time to stake a claim. That wasn't enough so he's off. If he'd waited two years (he'd be 21) then Flood would probably heading to France anyway. Clearly he wants it all now and isn't prepared to work for it.

Its like De ja Vu Sam...Gray, Clegg, Brookes, Miller...etc etc

formerly known as Sam wrote:Ford was offered a two year contract with a substantial pay rise. He asked for guaranteed starting berth and was told he'd have to earn it but would be given sufficient game time to stake a claim. That wasn't enough so he's off. If he'd waited two years (he'd be 21) then Flood would probably heading to France anyway. Clearly he wants it all now and isn't prepared to work for it.

That's an incredibly good offer from Tigers, and I think he's been naive to turn it down. You have to be expected to work for a starting spot.

Sadly Eddie... the kids today seem to disagree...resulting in many potentially great careers going down the swanny....

HongKongCherry wrote:I am trying to not let my natural anti-Bath bias take over, but I do get fed up with their transfer PR machine. Toby Booth said a few weeks ago that categorically Ford would not be joining them, stating his father as the source. What a load of codswallop that's proved to be! There was no need to issue such a denial, he could have just ignored the question. Unless of course I am doing him a disservice and Ford is going elsewhere...

If Bath is his destination he will get a lot more game time there than at Tigers. He will play behind a weaker pack than at Tigers too, so all in all this could be very good for his development. I can understand why Tigers' fans would be disappointed, but that is now 2 up and coming creative players that have moved on as they weren't getting the opportunity at Tigers (36 being the other). Is this something that needs to be addressed?

Nothing needs to be addressed, players have to earn the shirt. They play better than the man who has the current shirt then they will start. It's pretty simple really. Ford has had game time this year, his form has been worse than floods. So I can't see why he would start ahead of flood.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Its like De ja Vu Sam...Gray, Clegg, Brookes, Miller...etc etc

Is it de ja vu or karma Geordie?

nathan wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:I am trying to not let my natural anti-Bath bias take over, but I do get fed up with their transfer PR machine. Toby Booth said a few weeks ago that categorically Ford would not be joining them, stating his father as the source. What a load of codswallop that's proved to be! There was no need to issue such a denial, he could have just ignored the question. Unless of course I am doing him a disservice and Ford is going elsewhere...

If Bath is his destination he will get a lot more game time there than at Tigers. He will play behind a weaker pack than at Tigers too, so all in all this could be very good for his development. I can understand why Tigers' fans would be disappointed, but that is now 2 up and coming creative players that have moved on as they weren't getting the opportunity at Tigers (36 being the other). Is this something that needs to be addressed?

Nothing needs to be addressed, players have to earn the shirt. They play better than the man who has the current shirt then they will start. It's pretty simple really. Ford has had game time this year, his form has been worse than floods. So I can't see why he would start ahead of flood.

I agree that both Flood and Allen were playing better than Ford and 36 respectively; but both are young developing players with arguably more potential than the incumbents, yet the felt the need to move to continue their development. Is it as simple and black and white as saying the others players are better and they get the start, or does there need to be an element of them being given a run of games and guaranteed game time to ensure they reach their potential, regardless if they are not playing as well as their oppo?

Tigers have been brilliant in how they have developed Dan Cole. He has become a truly world class player and has benefited from competing with another world class player in Castro. He has had to warm the bench more often than not, until this season where he seems to well and truly be the better player. But in this case, you knew Cole would always get game time from the bench due to the physical nature of TH fresh legs will always be needed. Whereas tactically replacing the FH is not often the right thing to do; but did Tigers need to do this more often to give Ford the confidence his future was there? I am largely playing Devil's advocate here, but I don't think losing such a talented youngster should be so blase

Has it been confirmed that it IS Bath where he's going to?

In the Leicester Jercury it said that his "probable" destination was Bath.

They did deny signing him a couple of weeks back.....perhaps it's Saints

HongKongCherry wrote:

nathan wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:I am trying to not let my natural anti-Bath bias take over, but I do get fed up with their transfer PR machine. Toby Booth said a few weeks ago that categorically Ford would not be joining them, stating his father as the source. What a load of codswallop that's proved to be! There was no need to issue such a denial, he could have just ignored the question. Unless of course I am doing him a disservice and Ford is going elsewhere...

If Bath is his destination he will get a lot more game time there than at Tigers. He will play behind a weaker pack than at Tigers too, so all in all this could be very good for his development. I can understand why Tigers' fans would be disappointed, but that is now 2 up and coming creative players that have moved on as they weren't getting the opportunity at Tigers (36 being the other). Is this something that needs to be addressed?

Nothing needs to be addressed, players have to earn the shirt. They play better than the man who has the current shirt then they will start. It's pretty simple really. Ford has had game time this year, his form has been worse than floods. So I can't see why he would start ahead of flood.

I agree that both Flood and Allen were playing better than Ford and 36 respectively; but both are young developing players with arguably more potential than the incumbents, yet the felt the need to move to continue their development. Is it as simple and black and white as saying the others players are better and they get the start, or does there need to be an element of them being given a run of games and guaranteed game time to ensure they reach their potential, regardless if they are not playing as well as their oppo?

Tigers have been brilliant in how they have developed Dan Cole. He has become a truly world class player and has benefited from competing with another world class player in Castro. He has had to warm the bench more often than not, until this season where he seems to well and truly be the better player. But in this case, you knew Cole would always get game time from the bench due to the physical nature of TH fresh legs will always be needed. Whereas tactically replacing the FH is not often the right thing to do; but did Tigers need to do this more often to give Ford the confidence his future was there? I am largely playing Devil's advocate here, but I don't think losing such a talented youngster should be so blase

He's already played more games this year than last with a run of them when flood was injured or away with England. As you say it's probably not as black and white as I made out but you have to expect to earn the shirt. We've had many players come into the squad as unknowns and then go on to play for England. There development wouldn't of been any different to what they we're expecting from ford.

HKC,

It is not as though the players who 36 and Ford had to oust are old though. Allen is 26 and was in the EPS last year. In all honestly 36 left due to money - and he cannot be blamed for that - as much as "guaranteed" time at 12. Glaws have used him at 10 this season for as many matches as tigers did. I wish he had stayed - but he did not. It is perhaps true that due to Allen's defense, 36 did not get a fair crack.

Ford going. hmmm. Again flood is not exactly old, and until missing the NZ game with injury was Lancaster's first choice at 10. Ford has been given plenty of game time this season - and at the same age has had a lot more games at 10 vs Burns. He has played at 10 more than Farrell this season - but lets face it his form has not been great. I really thought he would have replaced Flood as Tigers first choice by the end of the season but he has really struggled for consistency - especially in goal kicking.

Perhaps tigers could have done more to keep 36, but probably at the expense of weakening the squad overall. Not sure we could do any more to have kept Ford happy.

I hope he goes on to fulfill his potential - but am convinced going somewhere else, right now is the wrong move.

36 left at 23/24 because he was the second best 12 and was offered a much better financial package at a club with much less competition. That was very hard to turn down.

Ford is only 19. Tigers have met his contractual demands other than offering a guarantee on a first team place.

Asked for a guaranteed starting berth? Seems to me that maybe young Mr Ford (or his advisers) have started to believe his own media hype a bit too much if they are actually making demands like that. For me he hasn't pushed on this season as much as I expected him to (in the games I've seen anyway) and think he would have been much better suited to staying at Tigers. Internationals and injuries mean that he would have still seen plenty of game time for someone his age still learning their trade in arguably the position with the most for a player to learn.

If he does go to Bath and they plan to play him and Heathcote at 10 & 12 then they better get ready for some big backrow forwards running at their channel on a regular basis.

As a Saints fan I would be very surprised if he ends up at the Gardens after what happened to his brother but I guess stranger things have happened.

Will Tigers bother replacing him or will they just use Bowden as their main 10 back up and strengthen the squad in another area? (I'm guessing that unless a deal is already done then Kvesic's wage demands will be rising with his inclusion into the main EPS as injury cover - more so if he actually plays a part in this years 6N).

Can't see why he would want to go to Bath but then again we don't know all the facts.

Only time will tell if it was the right decision, if not he's young enough to go back to Tigers and carry on after learning from his mistakes.

Maybe he just didn't like the Tigers environment? What's great for some can be poopie for others.

Maybe Yappy, then again he's been at the club from about 15. He made his debut for the first team at 16. If he wasn't happy with the culture he's had offers before but chosen to stay. Obviously he thinks he can establish himself elsewhere now he's bulked up and had both AP and HEC experience.

Will Tigers bother replacing him or will they just use Bowden as their main 10 back up and strengthen the squad in another area? (I'm guessing that unless a deal is already done then Kvesic's wage demands will be rising with his inclusion into the main EPS as injury cover - more so if he actually plays a part in this years 6N).

We're linked with three sevens Kvesic, Poff and Gibson. We will probably want a full back and maybe a hooker as well (depending how Stevens is progressing). Might need an additional prop as well if Castro is going.


We have Flood, Bowden and Cornwall (the new Vesty) who can all play 10. Bowden has been a bit average at 12 so I'd like to see us bring in an experienced 12 who can help bring some organisation to the back line in the same way as Allen but also marshall the attacking threat like Mauger did the last time we were a real force. Signing Myler would be a dull short term measure.

Is this just Bath wanting to be seen abiding by the rules?

http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/Bath-Rugby-deny-deal-sign-Leicester-Tigers-George/story-17930428-detail/story.html

Or is not Bath after all?

formerly known as Sam wrote:36 left at 23/24 because he was the second best 12 and was offered a much better financial package at a club with much less competition. That was very hard to turn down.

Ford is only 19. Tigers have met his contractual demands other than offering a guarantee on a first team place.

Twelvetrees became the first choice Saxons IC (ahead of Allen) and then as I recall didn't play for Tigers for about 2 months. He should have moved on at that point, instead he stayed and found himself covering whichever of 10, 12 and 13 Tigers were short the following season. Of course he was going to a side with a reputation for expansive back play where he'd be first choice 12. His reward is getting into the EPS 4 months after the move. It wouldn't have happened if he'd stayed at Leicester.

Twelvetrees and Ford are two of the biggest creative talents in English rugby. To lose both within 12 months really should raise questions.

Allen showed his class in the summer for the saxons. He was a star of the mid week team. Lancaster won't select him for the EPS short of an injury crisis. Twelvetrees filled holes when required at Tigers but has played 10 when Glaws needed him too as well. Don't see the difference other than Glaws only have the one specialist 12.

For me Allen is a decent club player, Twelvetrees potentially world class. Lancaster prefers to work with Billy and I think that is fair enough.

Twelvetrees has played 10 on occasion for Gloucester, but there's no doubt Davies sees his best position as 12 and there's no doubt he is first choice IC. At Tigers he was just a utility back, destined for the bench as soon as whicever of Flood, Allen or Tuilagi was missing was ready to return.

I think it's a good move for him. GF should be aiming to compete for FH for England at the WC.

He is behind Flood, Burns & Farrell at the moment & this will hopefully give him more first team action & pit him regularly against his FH contenders.

Hopefully good all round move. Always tough on fans of a club losing a young academy product. Tell me about it with Billy V!

I thought Billy V was silly not to stay at Wasps for a couple more years. They are on the up and he'd be an integral part of the team as opposed to a member of the Sarries rotation squad.

Dave, Twelvetrees had pushed Allen to the bench and was starting at 12 when he announced he was off. After that he was dropped from the squad entirely. I doubt Ford will get many games from now on either. You don't want to compete for your shirt? Then Cockers has no time for you.

DaveM wrote:For me Allen is a decent club player, Twelvetrees potentially world class. Lancaster prefers to work with Billy and I think that is fair enough.

Twelvetrees has played 10 on occasion for Gloucester, but there's no doubt Davies sees his best position as 12 and there's no doubt he is first choice IC. At Tigers he was just a utility back, destined for the bench as soon as whicever of Flood, Allen or Tuilagi was missing was ready to return.

Completely agree with this. And also look at the way he is played at the club, you can see at Gloucester he has a lot of freedom with his style of play and looks comfy at 12 alongside Burns. At Leicester he was dropped for a single missed kick or rotated straight out for Allan if there were any issues.

We're linked with three sevens Kvesic, Poff and Gibson.

Which one would you want Sam...

GF should be aiming to compete for FH for England at the WC.

Cheers Big Trev...ill do my best mate..

How's your kicking coming along GF, last we heard it was a bit wayward...

Kicking....no kicking in my mentality...Run it from everywhere!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Kicking....no kicking in my mentality...Run it from everywhere!

Even the conversions? This isn't American Football!!

Bring on Farrell for the kicks then ship him off again...abuse the blood replacement rule...

formerly known as Sam wrote:I thought Billy V was silly not to stay at Wasps for a couple more years. They are on the up and he'd be an integral part of the team as opposed to a member of the Sarries rotation squad.

Surely that logic can then be applied to Ford? Rather than stay at Tigers where he will not get as much game time (not due to rotation, but competition) he's going to Bath to be an integral part of their team and with their financial back are on the up too.

I do wonder how much 36 leaving has affected Ford's decision to go. Ford has seen how 36 has gone from being a back up to the form player in his position and promoted to the EPS in the space of a few months. I do rate Cockers, but he is very pragmatic and maybe Ford feels that his style of play, like 36, may be better suited with another team.

HongKongCherry wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I thought Billy V was silly not to stay at Wasps for a couple more years. They are on the up and he'd be an integral part of the team as opposed to a member of the Sarries rotation squad.

Surely that logic can then be applied to Ford? Rather than stay at Tigers where he will not get as much game time (not due to rotation, but competition) he's going to Bath to be an integral part of their team and with their financial back are on the up too.

I do wonder how much 36 leaving has affected Ford's decision to go. Ford has seen how 36 has gone from being a back up to the form player in his position and promoted to the EPS in the space of a few months. I do rate Cockers, but he is very pragmatic and maybe Ford feels that his style of play, like 36, may be better suited with another team.

Style of play? Tigers have moved on from those days (well there having a few issues at the moment) so that view is about 2 to 3 seasons out of date. How do you know he wouldn't get as much game time? If he is in better form than flood, he'll start.