Standard coaching practice – does it work?

This is a topic I have been thinking about for a while now – things that rugby teams do at training, and whether they are actually any good or not. I know there are a few rugby coaches on 606V2, but here are my thoughts on some things at rugby training that I think aren’t overly useful as they do not simulate game play overly well. I will also bring up some things I think are good.

Stretching

I have heard so many differing opinions on stretching before a game / training that I literally have no idea what is best. Personally I find that stretching does not do a massive amount for me to get me warmed up for a game / training, and indeed makes me take the field feeling stiff and not overly loose. My club has used dynamic warm ups for a while now, with very little static stretching – which I think works very well for me. Things like everyone jogging around in a big square, changing direction repeatedly, and every time you pass the ball you need to do a squat first – that kind of thing. You can then move it on to when the whistle blows you have to bridge over the ball on the ground, and the next person in has to pull/push you off to get the ball – good to warm up the core and shoulders.

So as I said I personally like warm ups that are very dynamic, and only involve stretching if things are feeling tight. What are people’s opinions on static stretching as a warmup?


Tackle bags

A big foam shaped cylinder that stands still – very realistic for tackling isn’t it?? Yes I suppose it teaches good discipline for getting down low and getting yourself back up quickly, but for me tackling an inanimate foam object is completely different from tackling someone running at you.


Rucking shields

Used in pretty much every training session that involves rucking. To me these are pointless in simulating a real life ruck scenario – yes they protect the players at training but you wipe out someone holding a rucking shield in a completely different way to how you wipe someone out in real life. Again as per tackle bags it does teach good body positions etc but I’d say at least 9 out of 10 rucks are a complete dog fight, whereas there is only the odd one where the person is standing upright and you just need to run into them with your shoulder and drive them out the way (as you do when clearing out a rucking shield!)

I appreciate that the only way to really train at good rucking practice is live opposition – which causes injuries – but I just think your technique to clear someone holding a rucking shield is significantly different to real life game situations. Or is it just me?


Unopposed run-throughs

This is my real bug-bear. Forwards drive a lineout 30m, give it to the backs on a clean plate who execute a double scissor behind the back miss one loop move that results in the blind side winger scorching through a gap and making another 30m. Forwards then pick and go 5 times making a further 10m then the try is scored when it is fed out to the 10 who passes it back inside to the number 8 who gallops through a gap to score.

All against no one.

So what happens in reality in a game situation? Forwards sort of win the lineout, they then form a maul and go forwards 2m, followed by going backwards 4m. They then decide it isn’t going anywhere and ship it out to the backs. The standoff has called a ‘double scissor behind the back miss one loop move that results in the blind side winger scorching through a gap’ but ends up just hitting it up himself because the forwards gave the backs the ball on the back foot and the opposition is about to smash him. The forwards do a pick and go and eventually give it back to the backs, who decide to hoof it down field.

My point? Unopposed is completely different from real game play situations. And it is not just us amateurs – if you watch the pro teams warm up you will see the forwards drive a scrum 10m, the backs do some fancy move, they go through a couple of phases then score under the posts.

Yes unopposed is good for forwards to practice their lineouts without any pressure, backs to practice the backs moves under no pressure, and everyone runs about having fun and all look like Dan Carter, but that is nothing like how games go.

Again the only solution is to practice team plays against live opposition – but once again that leads to injuries.


Touch rugby

This one I like – good for fitness, good for skills, helps practice overlaps and 2 on 1s. Touch rugby can stay for pre-season fitness and a warm up before training. It is also good backs only as the fatty forwards aren’t slowing everything down and the backs can work on their alignment and passing without a prop standing at number 10 and ruining everything.


Conclusion

So these are my views on training practice – what I like and what I don’t. I suspect there will be some comments along the lines of ‘you’re not doing it right – tacklebags / rucking shields are actually useful if you use them in the following way….’ etc and all I say to that is fantastic – I might even suggest it next training session.

So am I un-educated in the ways of rugby training? Am I undervaluing the benefits achieved from these common practices? Or am I simply a revolutionary that has noticed a fatal flaw and will make millions from selling my good rugby training guide?

I’ll let 606V2 decide.

Want to start by saying great thread mate Probably one of the best I have read for a long time and I sincerely hope we get a lot of coaches pitching in so we can all learn a little something. My favourite quote ever...

'The difference between an amateur and a professional is that the amateur thinks the professional knows it all, the professional knows that nobody can know it all'

If only more pro coaches would take that on board!!

Now to the thread...

STRETCHING[i][u]
All the theory states that stretching statically before exercise is useless. Typically (and I'll save all the physiology because I bore myself) the muscle stretches then returns to it's normal length almost instantly, this is useless as a warm up. Increasing blood flow etc is the best way to get ready followed by actions you are about to undertake ( I also like to add exhagerated actions also) When the muscles are prepped for the increased oxygen by utilisation of more Mithocondria and Capillary you can then add certain dynamic stretches that will aid elasticity.

I personally like to warm up using my own routine which involves a quick energiser, then leads to a quick pulse raiser before utilising actions from within the game, then on to seperation work. Depending if it's training or pre match I like to do a lot of prehab work, and work on flexibility by using Ballistic stretching.
I find static stretching an excellent tool however, as a large part of the warm up is getting the mind switched on I find a lot of older players especially like to focus on certain muscle groups. You know if you've been injured (hammy) you like to give it a bit of attention before exercise to ensure itis ready, this gives the participant confidence in the muscle group.
I call this me time, where the players receive 2 mins to drink and stretch off any part they need to, it is essentially them taking responsibility for their own bodies, assesing their personal needs!

I also like to do a lot of fundamental movement work in my warm ups, a lot of people do not know how to move correctly IMHO and that can be partly helped during a warm up.

I know this sounds like a lot but a warm up will encorporate a lot of things but you'd never know as a participant.

I was once told by a very high regarded SnC coach from the NFL that

'The warm up is like breakfast, the most important meal on the training menu'

Sorry for the long winded response, I will respond individually so anyone who wants to avoid my long ramblings can just do so.

Tackle bags

As a training tool for senior the tackle bag is over used and under utilised IMHO!!!

It can be used massively for conditioning from shuttle runs/tackles to bag throws and even races with the bags on the shoulders.

But from a technical POV it is difficult to assess.

Firstly I have to say that I am 100% against anything that involves a straight line run to a bag then smashing of the bag followed by a slow get up and jog to the back of a queue (THERE IS NO PLACE FOR QUEUEING IN RUGBY)
If I were using a bag as a technical tool, it would be for the most basic elements or the most extreme only, maybe using video equipment to highlight foot position, knee/hip flexion/extension, head placement etc

On the flip side smashing a bag for a while can be a great confidence boost for poor defenders or juniors, not that you would use the bag solely but as a starting point.

Ruck Shields

I LOVE RUCK SHIELDS!!!!
First off I should highlight that I rarely use them for rucking practice, and if I do I generally use them in 2 ways...

1/ For entrance work. A lot of drills can encorporate a number of factors and disciplines of the game. For example entering a ruck is never as simple as hitting up from 5 yards and smashing someone back 10. You generally have to come from one side or the other, get your feet behind an imaginary gate then enter, so the use of cones placed either side of the ruck makes the players go left or right first. Sometimes the starting position is in front of the ruck and you have to retreat behind the ball to hit someone, I like to use a 6 point 6 entry ruck situation where players have to start and touch coloured cones, and with all that footwork it's noce to follow through and smash something!!

2/ Defender/Attacker simulation. The ruck pad doesn't just have to be held at hip height, the shield can be held down over the ball as if a fetcher is trying to steal, in which case the player has to hit down and roll the shield. The pad can be held extremely low so the player has a specific target to hit between pad and bag/ball I like to make it so low that players have to have hands on the floor and drive up. Or the pad can be held high as to mimic a player trying to work his way to the wrong side in which the pad gets it's head taken off and thrown to the ground!

Now to the fun part, the pad can be used in so many ways. I like to use the pad when coaching to either represent a gap (Standing in the defencive line and when an attacker spots and runs at me I step aside) or a dummy runner whos entered the line (I stand behind the defence and step into the line and obstruct defenders trying to make a tackle) You can use pads in a gauntlet style (Like gladiators) where 4/6/8 pad men try to stop runners making it to the end, the pad can be used by opposing players who portray defenders in bad positions (the maul is quite good, 6/7 man maul 3 pad men trying their hardest to stop it) You can use pads to oppose ;lineouts (opposing players hold pads up high at 2 and 4 and try to knock the ball down without letting go) or my personal favourite, pads can be used to form a ring in which the whole team starts and the man within the ring last wins/1 on 1 wrestle tournys!!!!

There is a million ways to use a pad, the normal ones are just the most useless!!

Unnopposed run throughs

I couldn't agree more! There is a place for them, where either a coach or players aren't aware of a certain play or system, and to get to grips you run it through a few times, however once everyone is familiar with the play there is no need to run it unnopposed again in that session (you can start every session with a reminder unnopposed run though)

I like to encorporate worst case scenarios into my runs in training, pass to the 10 has to bounce, I represent imaginary ruck (ball in my hands as if I'm the 8/hooker) and I decide if mauls going forward or back (God help any back who doesn't retreat faster than the maul) Tell strike runner/receiver not to make a move (see how backline reacts) etc etc there are literally a thousand things I and my assistants can do.

I also don't beleive in semi opposed, this in senior rugby is an insult. No opposition team will semi defend against you, if I have spares in the lineout they challenge (without knowing the call or not) if there are pad men smash the maul, defend against the backline.

For me if a defender isn't trying his hardest to disrupt then the matchday isn't simulated. Of course I reduce numbers to favour one side, and ad pads to cushion blows but aside from that it's go hard or go home!!!

Touch rugby

Touch rugby is a difficult issue, it can be a great tool used correctly or hamper a team massively!!

I once was told by a youth player that he was sick of it because all they had done in pre season was play a 40 minute game of touch twice a week for 8 weeks!!!

I also saw a junsior side where the coach thought touch would be a great way of a warm up to a match, until at the first contact the player tried to roll the ball between his legs as on autopilot!!!

For me the conventional touch can be very detrimental, loads of teams still roll the balll league style, this discourages any sort of offload game!!!

Plus coaches tend to play touch in a 22 or slightly wider, meaning the big boys drift out to the wings to rest, or they get too agressive and end up as first receiver 5 phases in a row!!

And for some reason there is this universal saying while playing touch 'take it up' as soon as theres no pass on players on either side stand with their hands on hips screaming at the ball carrier to take the ball up unsupported!! With no threat of turnover theres no need to follow him right?!

I use touch, but I follow every rule of the game except no contact, no stealing at the ruck (although if noone makes a ruck a kick is allowed) slowing the ball down is allowed (driving a ruck player behind his own ball)
Defenders must hit the deck before making another action.

I find all these extra rules take the players around 8 minutes to master (they are just game rules) and what is incredible is that you find that the teams start to dictate to each other what they should be doing.
I have seen 9's explain to props that if they follow the ball carrier in and ruck they will produce faster ball because they are stronger, you see backs scream at forwards to get out of the 10 spot, you see boys unwilling to take the touch (as they normally are because of no pressure to lose ball) and offload more and most importantly there is a structure dictated by the actual game they play instead of this new game where your safe if you tuck the ball under your arm.

I generally play uneven sides too, mix players up in game and I make very poor calls as the ref, generally to get the players into a state of mind where if they answer back it's push up time and turnover time!!
I have done this with senior and junior sides for years until last season a 12 yr old worked me out, he asked if he could have a huddle and I overheard him telling his players I was doing it on purpose!!!

Conclusion

Any person who tells you that you'r doing something wrong (unless dangerous) is pretty clueless and wants to impress on you what he believes is knowledge you don't posess!!!

There are a million coaches who like to show off extravagent techniques to highlight how good he is, it's the ones that say little and answer only what you ask directly you have to watch for, they are the guys with abilities you want, they generally have answers that they don't need to shout to the world!

IMHO coaching is all about the team, if they enjoy and are happy then your succesfull, results on the pitch are a byproduct of how succesfull you are with your team. People forget that training takes up on average 70% or so of a players playing career (amateur) the match is but a small part, if you don't enjoy training your going to hate 70% of your time!!!

Again sorry for the essays, skip over them as you wish (I would)

For my uni side we use touch every session (touch as in holding on but not full contact) but different types of touch games, we do the conventional, fijian where if you're tagged once you can keep running but can't score the try. It emphasises the importance of support runners and allows players still to break. 2 pitch touch, pitch A is playing from touchline to touchline (5-22/10) and pitch B is playing try line to try line full width up to the half way line, this is so players are able to re align themselves quickly and easily and mixes up the gameplay of pitch size.

Overall I enjoy touch because of all the variety to it

Great thread.

On the warmup - Static stretching is not only pretty useless in terms of performance - lengthening the muscles, ligaments and tendons also weakens them and increases the risk of injury if done prior to intense exercise.

General pulse raiser followed by some light dynamic stretches and a sport specific warm up, with a gradual increasing of intensity is the the current UK sport advice I think.....

Sorry no source for that of the top of my head....

Always liked touch (2 hands) or grab as a player because it encourages players to look for space rather than contact and for the defensive team to work on positioning.....

Tackle bags and Ruck pads? not sure I suppose it depends what you use them for...

Thanks for the input so far guys.

Bluesmancometh – I knew you would have a lot to say on the matter! It’s interesting what you say about static stretching having its uses for the more ‘senior’ players – i.e. psychologically it makes them think their body will be OK because they have given their old hammy a bit of a stretch.

On the topic of unopposed and semi-opposed – I suppose the thing to remember is it is very much down to facilities available. For example at my club we haven’t got great floodlight facilities so you end up training on the same area of the pitch, which gets pretty chewed up meaning that quite often we have to train on Astroturf instead. Obviously you can’t really do full contact on astro a couple of days before a game! That’s where a lot of semi-opposed comes into play, although forwards being forwards it still gets pretty physical! I remember once someone had the bright idea of bringing our local rivals along to training for some semi-opposed run throughs. It pretty much ended up being full contact most of the time – on astro!

We do a lot of variants on touch rugby – things like give a bib to one person on each team. That person only counts as half a tackle – so you need to have another defender near them to make a 2nd touch on the player. It helps the defence organise to plug weak points (the person with the bib) and it get’s attackers to spot weaknesses in the line (the guy with the bib representing a big gap in the line or a prop standing in too much space or something like that). Obviously the tactic is to target the bib person and have players either side to jump on any half breaks the ball carrier makes because the defence have acted too slowly to get a 2nd person to touch them.

Other things include say 7 attackers on 5, and the coach tells one of the defenders to hold back or rush up on his own, or leave too big a gap – the attackers have got to read the defence in front of them and spot where the gap is. You can make it more difficult by getting the attackers to turn their backs, and when the coach blows the whistle it is instantly live game play so they need to react quickly to the defencive line coming towards them – where the weaknesses are.



I’m very much giving my thoughts from a players perspective – would be good to hear what some other players think of their training methods too!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Touch rugby

This one I like – good for fitness, good for skills, helps practice overlaps and 2 on 1s. Touch rugby can stay for pre-season fitness and a warm up before training. It is also good backs only as the fatty forwards aren’t slowing everything down and the backs can work on their alignment and passing without a prop standing at number 10 and ruining everything.

Excuse me?

Some of us props had deft hands, a wicked side step, vision, flare and gas to burn!

I agree with what you said, especially in terms of the unopposed run throughs. When I played I kind of questioned what's the point in this? It never ever pans out like that in a game.

Just like Murphy's laws of combat, "no plan can survive 2 minutes with the enemy". Some set moves work brilliantly, case and point Pyrgos try vs. South Africa in the AI as a notable Scottish example.

However I feel an extra 15 minutes on the Scrum machine or another 15 minutes playing ruck ball is better, especially for forwards.

One of my favourite training sessions was a game called ruck ball.

Ruck ball was a great game to get you used to trying to tackle and strip opposing players of the ball. The game was played in a box between the 5 meter line, the 22 , the touch line and a row of cones 10 meters from the touch line. So very close quarters

Normally at any given training session we had betwen 14-18 forwards including the 1st XV and the 2nd XV so you could play 7 or 9 aside in a very small playing area.

Same rules as rugby league but with 1 exception. For 3 seconds after the tackle was made (counted out loudly by the coach) the player who made the tackle could get back up to their feet and try to strip the ball. It was a great game for practicing tackling and the skill of getting up to your feet to try and either force the turnover or penalty. It was also a great game to get you used to short pick and drives that become critical inside the "red zone" in the big games at the weekend.

Once the 3 seconds is gone either the player who made the tackle has stripped the ball (turnover) or the defending player has to release and the attackers have 1 less tackle to attack with.

I'm currently looking to go through my UKCC qualification to get coaching and lend a hand down at KRFC.

Good debate though.

HA HA HA

What can I say, if someone mentions coaching practice in the pub I could rant for hours!!

Regarding Semi opposed, my point wasn't full contact, but full effort. Have you ever tried to smash someone off their feet with a shield? It's very difficult unless you catch them unaware.

It's very easy to run a drill when there are only 3 defenders to your backline and they are jogging around loosely, when they are going hell for leather trying to hit you or the ball however it puts much needed intensity into the drill.

Regarding the touch and others touch is a great tool as long as it's done correctly and the coach keeps changing the stipulations, and varies it to more realistic game situations.

Your drills regarding attackers turning their backs and differing numbers of defenders attacking differing players is great, I tend to do that a lot but after some analysis I found a fe problems.

Firstly most teams only ever run 1 phase, then they reset for another attempt. I find it much better to run multiple phases with multiple layers of defence, and differing defence patterns. You'll find that the defence will automatically realign certain ways no matter what they should do.
Also giving the defence control works brilliantly, if for example you run a backmove with the defence of 5 players blitzing, the backline can only attack when the defence has reset (last man gets into the line) and you play full pitch first to touch the try line wins. Each break can be no more than 10 yards, defence get ground when they grab the ball tackler etc etc. Multiple phasess, competitive edge, bias to one side, realistic game scenario (Att has to go forward and back while waiting for ball) etc etc.

Also the problem I have found with turning the attackers backs is that it's unnecesary, doesn't happen in the game, 10 gets to scan constantly and make his mind up before ball gets to him. Therefore I prefer to let the set backline see where the defenders are, but have the defenders attack different people instead of just the guy opposite, 10 gets to see the defence but has to react to changes!

In case you hadn't notice I like to break a lot of drills down into the fundamental parts and assess how usefull it can be to what a player needs during the game. Not many people do so and just look at a drill and decide if they like it or not!

Rugger

I LOVE RUCK BALL, I do exactly the same all the time, have the forwards picking and going in a 15meter channel, but don't do it league style, just play live game play. After 4 minutes your lungs are burning and people are dropping like flies!!! Great way to build a pick and go game and develop strength endurance in your pack!!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Some of us props had deft hands, a wicked side step, vision, flare and gas to burn!

That literally made me LOL.

You may have guessed I'm generally quite cheeky towards my tightheads, although it quite often ends badly - we were doing wrestling one training session and I ended up against our tighthead. Think it's fair to say he pretty much ate my alive, chewed me up and spat me out again, but first making sure my face spent a lot of time in his sweatty pits.

We have done ‘ruck ball’ or whatever you call it as well.

I remember when I was taking part Edinburgh under 16s training in the summer once, on a rock solid Musselburgh pitch, where we played it from 22 to 10m line, touchline to touchline length. It was absolutely brutal and removed most of the skin from our legs and arms!

Bluesman – do you have any good kicking/catching drills? One criticism I have of my club is that we barely do them, and they wonder why our back 3 players sometimes drop the ball or slice the kicks into touch!

In pre season we sometimes play ‘kick back’ or ‘knock back’ for some banter, but it is also good for kicking and catching. It is full pitch, as many people as you want on each team. It’s kind of like dodge ball in a way – you kick it to the opposition and if they catch it clean off the catcher gets to move 10 steps forwards. If the ball bounces you’ve got to take it from where the ball stops, or where you eventually stop it. If however you try to catch it and drop it the kicker gets to re-start from where you drop it! You get points be getting drop goals.

Have to say the forwards probably like this more than the backs – they finally get a chance to kick the ball!

It’s maybe not good for practicing kicking to touch, but it at least makes you look for space and practice kicking into it. It also gives lots of catching practice.

Ye there are millions of drills for both kicking and catching...

Quick warm ups include netball (Use whatever you find as a net, hockey posts, someones bag, whatever) either stipulate that you have to pass the ball to your players or kick it. Never play this drill more than 10 mins because of all the bad habits picked up, but as a warm up and get the players switched on it is brilliant!!

Then theres golf, pick a target and each player has to get there in the least number of kicks!

Crossbar challenge. Post challenge etc

Murder the FB, every player plays a bomb at the same time and FB or 2 has to catch as many as he can, if your caught you switch places with him.

Theyre all great fun games to play that will help, but they all get seriously addictive so try not to play for too long!

Regarding drills there are tons, but wouldn'nt know where to start, I always start sessions with a simple handling drill, 4 lines of 2 men on side 2 the other, ball starts one side and ends the other. Sounds basic but done regularly and at pace with the key elements drilled into them over and over really slicks up handling skills very well. And doesn't have to be just a few metres a part, I once had the 4 players throwing 15 metre passes to each other at full tilt, with each of my key criteria met...

Taking the ball early so not to double man sausage, one fluid movement from catch to release.

Taking the ball at pace, so not over running the ball carrier, staying patient and deep.

Ball to be played flat, no matter where the receiver is so he has to move to the ball, not play the ball to him.

Once the ball is received 3 yard explosion to either bust the line or give the next receiver some more depth.

Doesn't sound like anything speical I know, just good solid passing abilities from all involved, but at full tilt those 15 metre passes looked very impressive coming from 15 yr olds (and may I see 9 of my boys went on to play for the Dragons junior academy) It took months of practice, certain boys had to practice hand placement and spin at home too.

If your back 3 are struggling for hands the problem probably doesn't lie in their hands, from what Ive seen back 3 players can get very cold out wide, and when your not involved in the game for long periods it's hard to stay switched on and focus'd. I bet the same players don't make the same mistakes in training! I would definately use the back 3 more during narrower attacks, give them more to do and keep them focus'd, then when the poor pass dribbles to them 5 metres out they are more likely to score than fumble. A lot of teams just put the smaller guys out wide, almost hide them from the team, the better players play centre etc, these guys need more involvement IMHO.

A winger needs to realise his needs or abilities aren't the same as everyone elses, he doesn't need to be roaming tackling everything that moves, he doesn't have to catch and pass like other backs, his role is about patience, timing and explosion. He must spend his time conastantly thinking about what he'll do if the ball comes to him now, keep head up and see whats happening, he has to relish the ball, and when wingers start wanting it more they start going looking for it.

Ive seen sessions where wingers just stand there on the blind side doing nothing while the backline runs phases, an inside run on the 10, a loop into the backline, a crash from the blind, Wingers can make a hundred different dummy runs and at any given time during a match they are clean open, yet never get the ball.

On handling, it amazes me how bad some pro teams handling is – especially in Scotland. More often than not you see players passing at head or knee height, the pass fired too hard so it either bounces off the other guy or he fumbles it first before passing it on etc. I think a lot of that comes down to passing drills. They spend all day passing to each other with a powerful spin pass whether required or not, and often accuracy goes out the window. Indeed I’m a fan of only spinning it if you have to, and I think in some instances not spinning it is beneficial.

As you say though bluesman these passing drills are good as long as you demand high standards. If they are passing 3m away and fire a hard spin pass then get them told. Especially at youth level where kids like to show off that they can do a fancy spin pass – they need to know that their pass isn’t automatically good if it has a spin on it, and can often be detrimental. There’s a time and a place for spinning, and a time and a place for the old fashioned way!

Does your half backs practice box kicks and differing kicks under pressure?

I generally use the 4/5/6 halfbacks and a bag as a fake ruck/gameline.

Set the 9 and 10 as you would and everybody else (bar 1 who will retreive balls) as pad men behind a bag on the floor. Run a live play and the 9 has to box/play the 10 and they have to kick for a purpose (clear dead, play corner, play long up and under etc) whistle and pad men try to charge down ball, either holding the pad on their hip or above their head. If the pads by their hip they can get to the kicker far quicker (after hurdling the bag) but unless they catch man and ball they have a difficult time stopping the kick, if they hold pad above their head they are slower to reach kicker but have far greater height to stop the ball once kicked.

You can adjust it making the game line closer (never further) tailooring how the defenders holde the bag (if you have a kicker who kicks shallow padmen holding the pad high will teach him to retreat a touch and allow for more early height (alternatively if your 10 kicks too high from the boot and stands flatter smash him with hip pad men who start a yard closer))

Live pressured kicking is one of the skills least trained, so if possible I like to have an assistant go with the forwards, one with the backs and I'll take small unit skills, or assistant takes the team through a drill and small units come and go throughout!

Exactly mate, I have always adopted the philosiphy of why spin unless you have to!!

The rule of thumb is if you don't spin and you pop, if the ball gets to the player flat without a looping arc then it is fa better to popp the ball, if the ball arcs then it is waisting valuable time the player could be using with the ball already in his hands so a spin is the better option.

A lot of the pro's issues IMHO is that when they train they don't train with the same fear/excitement/nervousness that they do come gametime. Putting passers under excess pressure in training is usefull to combating this however there is no way to replicate a live game day. Thats why I never train semi opposed, I will put stipulations on the defence for an attacking bias but after that it is go hard or go home time!!

PS I dislike this new wave of 15 metre pop loop passes a lot of 10's are adopting, IMHO it's a safe option and gives the receiver far more time to take, I can see a use for it if your passing to a forward unmarked 5 metres out, but popping the ball to a pod, or to a centre is just plain stupid, the defence gets out much faster. Also just the body language of the pop passer, holding the ball by his groin, looking and the reciever, there is no mystery in this pass and is very readable, it's lazy to do so and when you see then next one I will bet my mortgage on the pop passer doing it off his left... LAZY get who doesn't trust his left.

Also there is a huge difference between a pop, spin and a bullet, a spin can be softly put into a pair of hands.

As you start watching games now, with a training, coaching, drills, movement, and body language mindset on you will start to see a thousand subtle little differences, lazy techniqques, poor quality where one player will be blamed (normally the reciever) where it is mostly someone elses fault!

What levels do you coach bluesman?

I'm only 25 so happy to keep playing, but would like to get involved with coaching, or maybe even reffing (shock horror!) in a few years time when the body says no.

I had a fairly severe head injury back in March playing rugby and only got back into it again in August, but have been injured since September with a dodgy knee so I have time to think about these things and life outside playing rugby!

Injuries are sometimes the best ways to put things into perspective.

I read somewhere that Ferguson started to consider coaching when injured and was bored so shadowed the boss!!

Right now I am not coaching at all mate, have coached some junior, elite and academy teams in last few seasons elite and academy teams were a huge comitment so had to knock it in the head after I graduated ends of last season as I was starting up a business. Coached some youth teams and a few adult teams, done a bit of consulting/helping guys out over the last few months, but seriously missing the coaching, prob why I'm on here so much this season compared to last, so will be looking to find some coaching soon.

I am UKCC lvl2 but havn't and won't bother with 3, IMHO lvl 2 was poor enough, and there are some very poor teaching standards in there. I am planning on checking out the Irish and French equivilants, and while down in Aus for the lions tour will try to find a course to be nosy.

IMHO coaching is about the passion not the certification.

For our youth team Warm up we line up in 4's along the touch line call " set set up" and go through, high knees, heel flicks, squats, lunges, high kicks and then 3/4 sprints, followed by our own stretches, personally I find this good for me as I tend to pull up quite easily yet with this warm up I never do, it also allows people to get the defence timing together.

Both before matches and at the beginning of training we play touch, which I find very useful as it allows the team just to warm up the hands and legs, we also make sure we put our shoulders in to get a bit of warm up for contact.

We then do variants of Touch such as offload (which in my opinion doesn't work that well as it is too fast to allow defence to align) we also do it so the tackler has to run back to the tryline and then back to the defensive line which allows for space for the attacking team while helping with fitness.

as a youth team we don't tend to use tackle bags that often, however we use ruck shields to act as defenders at rucks or in the defensive line.

Unopposed runs for me are a pet hate as a forward. While it useful for the backs to do moves off the scrum or lineout, the speed is much to quick and isint at all realistic for the forwards as rucks are much to quick.

One of my personal favourite drills is kick chase, where you have the ball kicked to say 6 attackers who try to score against the defence of 10. This has two purposes as it allows the attackers to have free reign to try different things, the main purpose however is to help the defensive line and have the 9 sweep

overall I think our sessions are pretty good, however I think not enough emphasis on the forwards handling is placed and neither is enough tactical kicking for the backs.

Also have to agree with Bluesman about how injuries do have a positive, since being on the sideline through injury and being quite an intelligent player (even if I say so myself!) it has allowed me to make observations of the teams weaknesses and the positives which I would not get to usually get to see.