Fisticuffs In The Fourth / What Did Roger Say?

First topic message reminder :

I was unable to watch today's semi between Federer and Murray (although I do have it on record) but reading match reports there is a lot of discussion of this incident in the fourth set when Federer said something to Murray. I'm curious to know what was said and the context. We are always hearing about how all the players are best of buddies but with these two I've never been convinced. Does anyone know what happened?

Here is a video. But it isn't clear what was said and we cannot see the context.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJatAb1IWAs

This is what Federer had to say afterwards about it

Q. You spoke earlier in the week about the good manners that exist between the players. There definitely seemed to be a bit of feeling between the two of you after 6 5 in the fourth. Can you talk about that. Was there an exchange between you?
ROGER FEDERER: I mean, it wasn't a big deal anyway. We just looked at each other one time. That's okay, I think, in a three and a half hour match. We were just checking each other out for bit.
No, I mean, that wasn't a big deal for me. I hope not for him.

http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/news/interviews/2013-01-25/201301251359121946973.html

And what Murray says is even more intriguing

Q. How surprised were you by what he shouted when you were at the net at 6 5 in the fourth? You had a funny look on your face at that point.
ANDY MURRAY: I mean, I wasn't that surprised. I mean, stuff like that happens daily in tennis matches. You know, in sport, the stuff that some people say on football pitches and in basketball and all sorts of sports. I mean, it was very, very mild in comparison to what happens in other sports. It's just one of those things.



Q. Did it rattle you at all?
ANDY MURRAY: No. I think it didn't rattle me. I think he raised his game, you know, and that's what happens. Sometimes guys need to get, you know, emotion into the match.
He definitely raised his level and played in that game I think he hit two balls onto the line and was extremely aggressive after that.



Q. Can you repeat what he said?
ANDY MURRAY: It's not relevant what he said. You know, it doesn't really matter. It's something that happens, like I say, all the time on tennis courts, in sport, all the time.
Especially when it's a one on one sort of individual combat. It's not relevant. There's no hard feelings.



Q. Was it a word that we might struggle to get in our newspapers?
ANDY MURRAY: It's not relevant what was said, you know. I'm sure Roger won't talk about it and I have no interest in discussing it either, because, like I say, it happens all the time.
People will want to make a big deal of it and it isn't really a big deal.

My first thought was that Murray had tried to hit Federer with a ball as he did at Wimbledon. But I was wrong. So what did happen?

Have just found a description of what was going on from Kevin Mitchell from the Guardian

Serving for the match at 6-5 in the fourth, Murray stopped in mid-rally then passed Federer on his backhand side. Federer, irked at what he perceived to be gamesmanship, said something that provoked Murray into an ugly sneer in reply. From there until the end, it was no tea party.

When Federer forced a tie-break and took the match into a fifth set, the feelings did not subside. At 15-0 in the second game, Murray had the simple option of passing down the line with a backhand volley but drilled it at Federer, who celebrated when it went long. He was not so happy when he framed a backhand and again Murray broke, for 2-0. They went punch for punch to the final bell and indulged in the most rudimentary of pleasantries at the net after Federer had sent his final forehand long.

Federer smiled. Murray did not. Nobody present could remember such naked antagonism between them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/25/andy-murray-roger-federer-australian-open

Not nice! Not nice at all... Mitchell sums up by saying It is one they will want to forget and no doubt they will gloss over it but it was real, all right.

Henman Bill wrote:Thanks for telling me where to find the point.

So Federer hits a shot, Murray stops, Federer is upset and questions why he stopped, as that may have distracted him, as if he was going to challenge.

However in reality the stop is so very, very slight that Federer has no cause for complaint. There is certainly no rule that says a player must be continually moving (!), and there was certainly no raise of the hand.

In reality Federer has just got frustrated that he is losing the match, that he is being beaten by the better player, and that he has just been passed. He lets his frustration get the better of him and shouts out at Murray, which is a mistake on his part.

In an ideal world, he probably should have apologised to Murray in the after match press conference, but it's a minor incident, so it doesn't matter.

To Murray's credit for not making an issue of this.

I do think swearing at Murray was very extreme though, I didn't expect this from Roger of all players.

It Must Be Love

Federer has hardly made a habit out of swearing. Why do you think he did so in this instance? It is widely reported that Lendl has encouraged Murray to employ the sort of tactics that he gained a "reputation" from. Murray has excellent PR and will be able to get away with a lot. Federer in contrast is coming under constant attack by the British media. They have completely turned against him...

Yeah not a big deal but, I saw it differently. Murray passed him and kind of gave a half sneer like don't come up behind that garbage, at least that is the way Roger took it, and he pointed at his eye like he was saying that I saw that Andy. It was the look on murray's face when he hit that pass, it looked almost disdainful. But I don't think Murray meant it. The going right at Federer in the next game was kind of interesting and added somme fuel to the fire. Not that big a deal, not compared to some of the tension Rog has had with novak and his entourage on the court.

I've heard the BBC footage, and Federer says "you f****** stopped".

Which fits in with what I said earlier in the post. That's why Murrays face was so surprised.

Well if that were the case then that was twice he swore in the one match as he swore earlier after playing a duff shot something like 'that was bull sh**' and Eurosport commentators picked up on it. I seem to recall an overhead in fourth set (I think) that Roger hit straight at Andy which he tried to play back with his racquet across his body but failed. No big deal though as both players have since both said. Besides I see no massive hoo hah in the press either so a bit of a storm in a teacup me thinks.

From their mouths:

"Both men played down an apparent cross word when Murray first served for the match at 6-5 in the fourth set, the Scot moving to within two points of victory before Federer hit back to break.
"I wasn't that surprised," said Murray. "I mean, stuff like that happens daily in tennis matches, in sport, the stuff that some people say on football pitches and in basketball and all sorts of sports.
"I mean, it was very, very mild in comparison to what happens in other sports. It's just one of those things."
Murray would not reveal exactly what had been said, but added: "People will want to make a big deal of it and it isn't really a big deal. There's no hard feelings."
Continue reading the main story
“
I had difficulties getting into his service games time and time again
”
Roger Federer
Federer agreed, saying: "It wasn't a big deal. We just looked at each other one time. That's OK, I think, in a three-and-a-half hour match. We were just checking each other out for bit. I mean, that wasn't a big deal for me. I hope not for him."

If nothing else it proves that the TMF is human after all lol

hawkeye wrote:It Must Be Love

Federer has hardly made a habit out of swearing. Why do you think he did so in this instance?

He also once swore at an umpire in a Grand Slam final.

It is widely reported that Lendl has encouraged Murray to employ the sort of tactics that he gained a "reputation" from.

Where did you get this from?
Daily Mail? The Sun? Daily Mirror?

Federer in contrast is coming under constant attack by the British media. They have completely turned against him...

That's a load of nonsense. No one's turned against anyone, you're paranoid if you think this is the case.
The only thing that is happening is that while we know Federer is in the wrong here by swearing at his opponent, you are continuously clutching at straws and somehow trying to make Murray the evil villain as you always attempt. It's getting boring now.

" It's getting boring now"

Afraid it's past that stage - embarrassing more like.

sportslover wrote:From their mouths:

"Both men played down an apparent cross word when Murray first served for the match at 6-5 in the fourth set, the Scot moving to within two points of victory before Federer hit back to break.
"I wasn't that surprised," said Murray. "I mean, stuff like that happens daily in tennis matches, in sport, the stuff that some people say on football pitches and in basketball and all sorts of sports.
"I mean, it was very, very mild in comparison to what happens in other sports. It's just one of those things."
Murray would not reveal exactly what had been said, but added: "People will want to make a big deal of it and it isn't really a big deal. There's no hard feelings."
Continue reading the main story
“
I had difficulties getting into his service games time and time again
”
Roger Federer
Federer agreed, saying: "It wasn't a big deal. We just looked at each other one time. That's OK, I think, in a three-and-a-half hour match. We were just checking each other out for bit. I mean, that wasn't a big deal for me. I hope not for him."

If nothing else it proves that the TMF is human after all lol

sportslover. I'm glad that you've been encouraged to do a little research. You have obviously cut and pasted part of the players comments from somewhere. But you should always provide a link so that other posters can see the source and know your not just making things up. But don't worry you have no need to bother in this case as I have posted the full quotes in my main article. They are from the post match press conferences at the Australian Open site. I have also provided a link so that you can check out the full interviews. I have also discussed these comments in the article and also later in the comments as have other posters.

You could make a better argument against what I am saying if you read the full article first. Re-quoting evidence that I've already given just backs up what I've said. Anyway I hope you continue to look around yourself at other sources. You can build a better picture of what's going on if you do so.

It Must Be Love

The British journalists are using every opportunity to have a snipe at Federer. If you don't believe me just have a look around. Most of the sites are free to view. The only one that isn't is the Times. It's the only paper I buy so I do have access to it. It has probably the most extensive tennis coverage of all the British papers but lately more than ever it is doing the Murray hard sell. And to do this it helps to knock Federer. Nadal has already been written off. I reckon that once he returns they will start on him too.

HE Murray's alright...

If that's all Federer said then who cares. I don't think it's that bad at all, it's not like he insulted him.

Is this still going on??

HE, if Murray had said what Federer did the papers would be crucifying him. Federer is getting off extremely lightly in the press. It is a non event anyway, just a minor incident in a high pressure situation. Time to move on, the players certainly have.

carrieg4 wrote:
HE, if Murray had said what Federer did the papers would be crucifying him. Federer is getting off extremely lightly in the press.

How HE is using this as an excuse to spout more anti-Murray propaganda is beyond me.

carrieg4 wrote:Is this still going on??

HE, if Murray had said what Federer did the papers would be crucifying him. Federer is getting off extremely lightly in the press. It is a non event anyway, just a minor incident in a high pressure situation. Time to move on, the players certainly have.

I totally agree carriege ANY other player would have been crucified not just Murray .. but there is always an excuse, reason or alibi ready when in defence of the GOAT. Yes it is time to move it on but as with so many misdemeanours committed by other players lets not forget that he too is not so squeeky clean as some would have us believe.

carrieg4 wrote:

HE, if Murray had said what Federer did the papers would be crucifying him. Federer is getting off extremely lightly in the press. It is a non event anyway, just a minor incident in a high pressure situation. Time to move on, the players certainly have.

Murray did do something or why would Federer have done anything. Murray is however is getting off scott free and Federer is getting a hatchet job from the press. The press certainly haven't moved on as it is receiving a lot of coverage. But they have mostly ignored whatever Murray did to bring out Federer's "annoyance". I did quote the relevant bit's from both players press conferences were they made "noises" about it being unimportant. Federer "moved on" a bit more quickly than Murray. Murray made a much bigger thing about it. Likening Federer's response to "combat" and saying this sort of thing happens all the time (Does it?), and then going on about how he wasn't going to make a big thing about "it" but others would. But Murray did move on quickly when it came to explaining his part of it.

The relevant quotes are all in the main article.

We have read the relevent quotes HE. We have re-watched the incident and HB has provided an excellent summary. End of story.

Stop digging yourself a deeper hole and accept defeat gracefully. Your latest attempt at a hatchet job on Murray has failed. Accept it and move on.

Good grief HE

Right.... Having watched it several times, and heard the BBC audio, I'm fairly confident THIS is what happened:

During a rally a Federer backhand looks long, and for the smallest fraction of a second Murray is static as if expecting an out call. You have to watch closely as you can barely see it, but he definitely doesn't explode off the mark like he usually does.

Federer must have seen this in his peripheral vision and thought he was going to challenge... For which he'd have been wrong, as Murray has no challenges... This is all barely noticeable in real time and the point continues and ends with a Murray winner. Federer then glares at Murray and says: "You f*****g stopped!"

Murray looks a bit baffled by it, if not a bit offended and annoyed. Murray goes on to lose his serve and ultimately the set.

Oh, and there has been little (if any) anti Federer reports today in the British media. The British press love Roger (like everyone does) and that is reflected in almost all the pieces I've seen.

To quote something Roger might say nowadays, Hawkeye is talking: "f*****g BS!"

break_in_the_fifth wrote:HE Murray's alright...

If that's all Federer said then who cares. I don't think it's that bad at all, it's not like he insulted him.

I thought that. If all he said was "you f*cking stopped" I place this miles behind getting angry at the Umpire in 2009. Unless Andy's never heard that naughty word before. That's possible.

Isn't the game poncey enough already without this counting as shocking?

bogbrush wrote:

break_in_the_fifth wrote:HE Murray's alright...

If that's all Federer said then who cares. I don't think it's that bad at all, it's not like he insulted him.

I thought that. If all he said was "you f*cking stopped" I place this miles behind getting angry at the Umpire in 2009. Unless Andy's never heard that naughty word before. That's possible.

Isn't the game poncey enough already without this counting as shocking?

Very true, it is a total non-story.

BB - Exactly. There's barely anything to apologise for. It was hardly insulting.

If I was in Murray's shoes, and Roger had apologised I'd have said it wasn't needed.

It seems only one person is making anything out if this, our beloved troll who wrote the article.

O give it up BB.. had it been anyone else but Federer you would have had your say as you always do.. isn´t the game poncey enough ??? what when you are the one that goes on and on about gamesmanship. When a player cusses on court that has become acceptable yes ??!! (in the good old days it wouldn´t have been) now you find it acceptable to swear at your oponent... so where are you proposing to draw the line... eh ?? when he throws his racket at him. Ive accused you before of duplicity BB and in this case you are again. I would love to see Djoko or Nadal swear at Federer and then lets see what you would have to say. Lets not dare criticise the ALMIGHTY. It must be bliddy cold up there on your high horse.

Not acceptable but easily forgettable and overlooked. Tone of voice makes up a larger percent of the meaning so we don't even know the exact way it came across. I guess we could draw the line at barging your opponent at the changeover...

Really what Nadal did is worse but in reality neither of the incidents is that bad at all or even worth mentioning let alone holding against the players. You're always looking for these imaginary double standards but really things are called pretty fairly.

haddie-nuff wrote:...so where are you proposing to draw the line... eh ?? when he throws his racket at him

Roddick already tried that and what he got in return was smile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5kPu_m6Y5I

Mac and Jimbo did much worse than the current incident.

A mountain of a molehill, IMO.

Will have to look, but a player tried to choke another in a Challenger, IIRC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIYdC4TX_G8

Yes and you do not have to remind me of that either bitf ... BUT did you hear any of his supporters attempt to defend it. ?? but on that note I will say I think Rafa deeply regretted after the event and shook hands with Rosol.

Im not holding anything against Federer ..more his fans for trying to defend what was unpleasant and unacceptable conduct. If we are to "excuse" this sort of behaviour then it will become something that players feel they can do.-. swear at each other on court .. really entertaining tennis don´t you think.
What kind of message does this send out to those young people who wish to follow in their idol´s footsteps. No Federer made a huge error of judgement as did Rafa.. yes lets move on.. but dont let us forget that it should not have happened not put it down to the fact that the game is getting "PONCEY"

A mountain of a molehill, IMO.

Yes LF because it was Federer !!

Danny_1982 wrote:BB - Exactly. There's barely anything to apologise for. It was hardly insulting.

If I was in Murray's shoes, and Roger had apologised I'd have said it wasn't needed.

It seems only one person is making anything out if this, our beloved troll who wrote the article.

I'm sure I'm not the only one unhappy with the unfair and biased treatment that Federer has received from the British Press.

You are deliberately trying to twist things. At the very least we do not know what went on. So why are you saying Federer should apologies to Murray? By doing that you are claiming that Federer swore at Murray for no reason. Sorry but I just don't buy this. Federer is known as one of the most sporting players on the tour. Murray has a coach who has told him to get mean. Murray must have done something to provoke such an unusual reaction from Federer. But he is being portrayed as the "innocent" party and Federer is the bad guy. Federer wouldn't want to tell tales and Murray can pretend to move on but at the same time make subtle or not so subtle digs at Federer.

BitF, BB, H-n... Let us not turn this into the usual Fedal debate. These are all human players, and let us recognise their human frailties.

Ha ha! Talk about divide and rule. It's Federer v Nadal here! Seriously these two players need to meet on a tennis court again soon...

laverfan. You beat me too it!

Haddie-nuff wrote:A mountain of a molehill, IMO.

Yes LF because it was Federer !!

I occasionally watch US NASCAR racing or Baseball and see drivers crashing into each others cars, or emptying the benches (imagine Lendl and Annacone baring fists). In contrast, Tennis is still a gentle-person's sport. These types of articles are incendiary and posters' emotional sides take over, rather than the prefrontal cortex.

It is strange to see this 'Take Him to Wall' mindset, whether it is Nadal, Federer, Murray, Djokovic, or Koubek, or Roddick...

This wasn't turning into a Fedal debate I said Nadal's incident was a non issue too... I'm just pointing out that that there aren't any double standards. It would be better if he didn't swear but he did. So what it's just words, well in this case it definitely was. He basically just said "you stopped" with a bad word in between maybe to express surprise or something else. To take this much offence to it is just PC gone crazy.

mm.. LF I will finish by saying had it been Rafa and not Federer (and I do understand a few Spanish swear words ) I would have had no defence for him whatsoever. For whatever reason he said what he said to whomever he said it.
Its not cricket and truly not what we should expect from those at the top of this game. Ill make no apologies for my reaction to it. But move on..but earnestly hope that its not something that is repeated.

laverfan wrote:

haddie-nuff wrote:...so where are you proposing to draw the line... eh ?? when he throws his racket at him

Roddick already tried that and what he got in return was smile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5kPu_m6Y5I

Mac and Jimbo did much worse than the current incident.

A mountain of a molehill, IMO.

Will have to look, but a player tried to choke another in a Challenger, IIRC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIYdC4TX_G8

lol - But not as big "chokers" as the likes of Gasquet or Berdych!

bitf.

One more thing Im sure you are not deliberately trying to be obtuse.
I am not offended by the fact that FED swore... I am more offended by the fact that his supporters think it is in order for him to swear AT AN OPONENT..
Do you honestly believe I have never heard this type of language that is not the issue here. It is to whom he addressed it and do not tell me that Andy did not take issue with it.. that is not the point either. I really blame the umpire who should have cautioned Fed anyway. Whew........ end of story.

Yes sl. been there done it and got the tee shirt... but it still dont make it right ...

hawkeye wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:BB - Exactly. There's barely anything to apologise for. It was hardly insulting.

If I was in Murray's shoes, and Roger had apologised I'd have said it wasn't needed.

It seems only one person is making anything out if this, our beloved troll who wrote the article.

I'm sure I'm not the only one unhappy with the unfair and biased treatment that Federer has received from the British Press.

You are deliberately trying to twist things. At the very least we do not know what went on. So why are you saying Federer should apologies to Murray? By doing that you are claiming that Federer swore at Murray for no reason. Sorry but I just don't buy this. Federer is known as one of the most sporting players on the tour. Murray has a coach who has told him to get mean. Murray must have done something to provoke such an unusual reaction from Federer. But he is being portrayed as the "innocent" party and Federer is the bad guy. Federer wouldn't want to tell tales and Murray can pretend to move on but at the same time make subtle or not so subtle digs at Federer.

Frankly, I don't really care what you think. There is some debate on here as to whether Roger was out of order (I think not personally) but you are the only person on this discussion suggesting Murray might be to blame in some way.

Nobody is buying it HE.

It really depends on what his tone of voice was when he said it... I'm done with this.

Can anyone recall an incident in the past decade where a player has sworn directly at his opponent during a match?

Haddie-nuff wrote:O give it up BB.. had it been anyone else but Federer you would have had your say as you always do.. isn´t the game poncey enough ??? what when you are the one that goes on and on about gamesmanship. When a player cusses on court that has become acceptable yes ??!! (in the good old days it wouldn´t have been) now you find it acceptable to swear at your oponent... so where are you proposing to draw the line... eh ?? when he throws his racket at him. Ive accused you before of duplicity BB and in this case you are again. I would love to see Djoko or Nadal swear at Federer and then lets see what you would have to say. Lets not dare criticise the ALMIGHTY. It must be bliddy cold up there on your high horse.

Just for the record, he used a swear word addressing him, he didn't swear at him.

"You f*cking stopped"

Is different from

"You f*cker"

hawkeye wrote:I'm sure I'm not the only one unhappy with the unfair and biased treatment that Federer has received from the British Press.

Evidence?

hawkeye wrote:You are deliberately trying to twist things.

Someone certainly is but it's not Danny.

hawkeye wrote:Federer is known as one of the most sporting players on the tour.

He is also an extremely fierce competitor and has previous form for swearing at officials on court.

hawkeye wrote:Murray has a coach who has told him to get mean.

True, he has encouraged a more positive attitude - great to see!

hawkeye wrote:Murray must have done something to provoke such an unusual reaction from Federer.

Highly speculative and contrary to what is visible even on slow mo replay

hawkeye wrote:But he is being portrayed as the "innocent" party and Federer is the bad guy.

There is no bad guy as it is a non issue but no reason to think Murray did anything.

hawkeye wrote:Federer wouldn't want to tell tales and Murray can pretend to move on but at the same time make subtle or not so subtle digs at Federer.

Pure speculation and not based on anything except for your own twisted prejudices.

bogbrush wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:O give it up BB.. had it been anyone else but Federer you would have had your say as you always do.. isn´t the game poncey enough ??? what when you are the one that goes on and on about gamesmanship. When a player cusses on court that has become acceptable yes ??!! (in the good old days it wouldn´t have been) now you find it acceptable to swear at your oponent... so where are you proposing to draw the line... eh ?? when he throws his racket at him. Ive accused you before of duplicity BB and in this case you are again. I would love to see Djoko or Nadal swear at Federer and then lets see what you would have to say. Lets not dare criticise the ALMIGHTY. It must be bliddy cold up there on your high horse.

Just for the record, he used a swear word addressing him, he didn't swear at him.

"You f*cking stopped"

Is different from

"You f*cker"

Or even you Mother f*cker (as used in a lot of the Big Movies!) lol

I cant buy into this - its a big non event turned into an issue by the Press and v2's roving reporter HE

Come along to Old Trafford and see real swearing - at the players, at the Ref and Uncle Tom Cobly and all!

So the long and short of it is that HE is delusional and inventing stuff as usual and Amrit and Decoco are as usual trying to find any little digs they can at Federer.

Digs at Federer? If this was Nadal you would have written an essay on it by now lol Eman. You once got into a strop because lydian said Nadal was a good volleyer.
I do like Roger, I have a lot of respect for him and still do. I was a disappointed by his actions, as I have every right to.
Of course compared to footballers, they do this commonly, probably say things like this every week

As for HE, I don't understand how she's trying to put the blame on Murray.

It Must Be Love wrote:Digs at Federer? If this was Nadal you would have written an essay on it by now lol Eman. You once got into a strop because lydian said Nadal was a good volleyer.
I do like Roger, I have a lot of respect for him and still do. I was a disappointed by his actions, as I have every right to.
Of course compared to footballers, they do this commonly, probably say things like this every week

As for HE, I don't understand how she's trying to put the blame on Murray.

In all the furor about Nadal bumping Rosol I never wrote anything about it.. because I don't care. However, I will always point out his on court delaying tactics, tactical MTO's etc, because I believe they give him an unfair advantage.

As for his volleying then of course I'm going to counter Lydian's ludicrous assertion that he volleys as well as Federer just as I would counter any claims that Karlovic moves as well as Murray.

laverfan wrote:

I occasionally watch US NASCAR racing or Baseball and see drivers crashing into each others cars, or emptying the benches (imagine Lendl and Annacone baring fists). In contrast, Tennis is still a gentle-person's sport. These types of articles are incendiary and posters' emotional sides take over, rather than the prefrontal cortex.

It is strange to see this 'Take Him to Wall' mindset, whether it is Nadal, Federer, Murray, Djokovic, or Koubek, or Roddick...

Tennis at is best IS a gentle-persons sport. Incidents like this that could turn tennis in a different direction. Lendl and Annacone may not bare fists but Lendl was known for his combative (or unpleasant) approach to the sport. Lendl has made no secret of the fact that Murray should introduce a combative (or unpleasant) element to the game. Murray himself often likens tennis to boxing. Boxing to me shouldn't even be described as a "sport". With Federer and Nadal at the top of the game and leading by example there has been little of this sort of thing in recent years. Tennis has been very fortunate having these two wonderful players as ambassadors of the sport.

I certainly don't want things to change as many other sports are not played in such spirit. Sadly not everyone is in agreement and some talk of there being more interest if players used some of the tactics that Lendl was infamous for. They also like the language of boxing. Also sadly if such behavior isn't called out for what it is there is an advantage to be gained from using it. Especially when so few players do.

And laverfan my article is in defence of tennis as a "gentle-persons" sport not an attack on it.

"As for HE, I don't understand how she's trying to put the blame on Murray"

Because HE or she?? is obsessed by Andy and loves wumming the Murray fans.

I am sure they (his fans) would like to take a collection to buy her a ticket (one way) to some remote part of the world that doesn't have internet access, and give her a holiday - the poor woman needs a break judging by the amount of time she spends looking for these "headliner stories"!

Eman, I was disappointed at Roger here, but as I said, footballers do this much more often anyway

hawkeye wrote:

laverfan wrote:

I occasionally watch US NASCAR racing or Baseball and see drivers crashing into each others cars, or emptying the benches (imagine Lendl and Annacone baring fists). In contrast, Tennis is still a gentle-person's sport. These types of articles are incendiary and posters' emotional sides take over, rather than the prefrontal cortex.

It is strange to see this 'Take Him to Wall' mindset, whether it is Nadal, Federer, Murray, Djokovic, or Koubek, or Roddick...

Tennis at is best IS a gentle-persons sport. Incidents like this that could turn tennis in a different direction. Lendl and Annacone may not bare fists but Lendl was known for his combative (or unpleasant) approach to the sport. Lendl has made no secret of the fact that Murray should introduce a combative (or unpleasant) element to the game. Murray himself often likens tennis to boxing. Boxing to me shouldn't even be described as a "sport". With Federer and Nadal at the top of the game and leading by example there has been little of this sort of thing in recent years. Tennis has been very fortunate having these two wonderful players as ambassadors of the sport.

I certainly don't want things to change as many other sports are not played in such spirit. Sadly not everyone is in agreement and some talk of there being more interest if players used some of the tactics that Lendl was infamous for. They also like the language of boxing. Also sadly if such behavior isn't called out for what it is there is an advantage to be gained from using it. Especially when so few players do.

And laverfan my article is in defence of tennis as a "gentle-persons" sport not an attack on it.

Give me strength

Wish I had your rose-tinted glasses Hawkeye. You manage to completely ignore everything that Federer or Nadal do that is less than laudable. Good luck with that. The rest of us will live in the real world where tennis players are mere mortals and none are perfect.

carrieg4.

Be honest you don't really believe Murray is a mere mortal and anything less than perfect. Otherwise you wouldn't be so sure that Federer must have sworn at him for NO reason. If I knew nothing about either player apart from the fact that Federer has never sworn at another player during play I would wonder what caused it. Please don't say he was playing a close match as Federer has played hundreds of them.

HE give up! Nobody is buying it!

Carrie, my advice would be to give up.

As they say, don't feed a troll.

hawkeye wrote:carrieg4.

Be honest you don't really believe Murray is a mere mortal and anything less than perfect. Otherwise you wouldn't be so sure that Federer must have sworn at him for NO reason. If I knew nothing about either player apart from the fact that Federer has never sworn at another player during play I would wonder what caused it. Please don't say he was playing a close match as Federer has played hundreds of them.

Utter nonsense, I have criticised Murray on many occasions.

The difference between you and me is that I look at the actual evidence available and use that to reach a conclusion. You on the other hand appear desperate to absolve Federer from all responsibility and blame Murray despite there being no evidence whatsoever to support this. Come join us in the real world, you might like it

HE says "the fact that Federer has never sworn at another player during play"

SO she has seen every match he has played, can speak four languages and has the ability to lip read.

Really lol

WTF am I keeping this thread going - bye