Jim Telfer describes English as too arrogant and Welsh too lazy

This quote is from a BBC R5 sports news headline broadcast just now.
To be frank, I can't find a written report for the Welsh slight but the English comment is reported in http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/story/176203.html and so it comes as the expected

Dear Jim,
Don't you mean "Irish too arrogant and the Scots too lazy"?

Nothing like a bit of harmony between the Home Nations before B&I Lions selections.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2269860/Jim-Telfer-England-arrogant-pretentious-condescending.html

The actual article. At what point do comments like this become just the rantings of an old man?

"England are not as good as they think they are," Telfer told the Daily Mail. "

yes.... the daily Fail. A stalwart of Rugby Journalism.

As I said on another thread, Telfer is a passionat scot who wears his heart on his sleeve. He'll have his opinions, as do we all.

However an article in the daily fail, a newspaper renowned for twisting quotes and using them out of context is pretty feeble.

Think of the Daily Fail like a 606v2 poster who only comes along once a year during the 6N trying to wind up other posters and get a bite. It would seem that this article has gotten a lot of bites, with ESPN Scrum, the Torygraph and the beeb all latching onto the story like a pack of bloodthirsty leeches.

Lets be honest.... he does kind of have a point.

Ok you beat the All Blacks (Kudos for that great performance), but the week before you did kind of get manshamed by the Ozzie front row. The very same front row that paid out penalties like a broken bandit to Scotland and France

Jim Telfer is a bit like the Chuck Norris of Rugby. He is about the only person who can make statements like that and we, the nation accused, say "yeah, far enough Jim, your pretty spot on"...!

I wouldn't want Jim to be misquoted - apparently, the English are not just arrogant, but "arrogant, pretentious and condescending". The Welsh do indeed have to make do with being called "lazy".

Glass of warm milk, tartan rug and a lie-down for Mr Telfer, please, nurse!

Telfer is a dinosaur and should be put out to pasture (mixed metaphors anyone?).

Given the 97 lions say that Telfers training sessions were the worst ever encountered I think its fair to say that from his perspective he has a point... and given his record in the game, he's earnt his right to his point of view.

Sorry, his record in the game entitles him to a view on the characteristics of a nation? Nonsense. It entitles him to an opinion on whether a forward is hitting a scrum too high or not; it gives him the right to talk about the angle you should take when hitting a ruck. Nothing else.

I have visions of him dribbling away to his carers, shouting "Bannockburn, Stirling Bridge, Prestonpans, F**k", at the top of his lungs, adding something incomprehensible about the Welsh and then being led away, heavily sedated, to his darkened room.

Awa' Jim and bile yer heid.

Awww. Poor little Jim Telfer sees England as condescending.

Saracens were boring when they smashed Edinburgh scoring 10 tries to 1 in the two matches. Weren't they? 85-7 aggregate score.

Boring Northampton didn't score many tries against Glasgow either.

Only 7 in two games. That's rubbish!

Nobody puts Big Jim in a corner.

Although he does deserve ten minutes on the Naughty Step for this rather jingoistic squadron of braindroppings.

Can you imagine what Brian Moore is going to be like at the same age???

What did he describe Scotland as ? Too rubbish?

George Carlin wrote:Nobody puts Big Jim in a corner.

Although he does deserve ten minutes on the Naughty Step for this rather jingoistic squadron of braindroppings.

These guys are invariably set up by Journalists. Big Jim is one of the most respected players and coaches in the NH. THe Daily Mail who wrote the story are not.

maestegmafia wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Nobody puts Big Jim in a corner.

Although he does deserve ten minutes on the Naughty Step for this rather jingoistic squadron of braindroppings.

These guys are invariably set up by Journalists. Big Jim is one of the most respected players and coaches in the NH. THe Daily Mail who wrote the story are not.

True but whilst the Daily Mail are the masters of subtle racism Jim Telfer clearly is not

For God's sake, the guy is 72. What do you mean, set up? Poor old greenhorn, who has never had any exposure to the Press before, is that it?

What a lot of toss. People just have to take responsibility for what they say and do - "I was misquoted" or "quoted out of context" is the refuge of people with a tendency to stick their feet in their mouths and to speak before thinking. Sure, the Mail is full of insects, but I very much doubt that they tricked Telfer into saying something he didn't mean to.

"Big" Jim may be a rugby icon, and that may be well deserved. Off the pitch, he's a gaffe-prone, socially inept gallus, to be kind to him.

Ahh, the perennial dark horse. Never has the label been so regularly and irresponsibly abused.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Ahh, the perennial dark horse. Never has the label been so regularly and irresponsibly abused.

Black Beauty?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Nobody puts Big Jim in a corner.

Although he does deserve ten minutes on the Naughty Step for this rather jingoistic squadron of braindroppings.

These guys are invariably set up by Journalists. Big Jim is one of the most respected players and coaches in the NH. THe Daily Mail who wrote the story are not.

True but whilst the Daily Mail are the masters of subtle racism Jim Telfer clearly is not

I don't think the word subtle and the Daily Mail can be used in the same sentence!

I don't doubt that he said what he's quoted as saying; but it wouldn't surprise me if he said it outside the 'official' interview.

Bathman_in_London wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2269860/Jim-Telfer-England-arrogant-pretentious-condescending.html

The actual article. At what point do comments like this become just the rantings of an old man?

10 years ago

Seems fair enough. The mans entitled to his opinion!

Actually funnily enough John Beatty here paraphrases Jim Telfers words on the Scotts:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21195701

...it was actually pretty easy to play for Scotland. It's not a big pool of talent. History.... is littered with incompetent and soft Scottish teams that had lost with disgrace. Winning is the hard bit. There has always been a resigned shrug of the shoulders at some Scottish performances. Scottish players get too much, too early in their careers.

So there you go, the Scotts are soft and incompetent and have it too easy.

Alls equal now.

To be fair - it's nothing compared to what the English and Welsh say about each other on here!

Seriously though, you take the one controversial sentence out of that interview and he's mainly bang on the money. He talks a lot of sense. He obviously still knows his rugby. And as PSW points out he's as scathing about Scotland as he is about any other rugby nation he mentions.

He'll never make the Diplomatic Corps but he knows rugby and what he says rings true.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Ok you beat the All Blacks (Kudos for that great performance), but the week before you did kind of get manshamed by the Ozzie front row. The very same front row that paid out penalties like a broken bandit to Scotland and France

as I said earlier, he has a point.

Is Jim Telfer the poor man's Gatling Gob ?
Typical pre-match psyche up games amplified through that bastion of good taste & reporting The Daily Wail. Hope Jim took some English gold from the Wail for his trouble.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Ok you beat the All Blacks (Kudos for that great performance), but the week before you did kind of get manshamed by the Ozzie front row. The very same front row that paid out penalties like a broken bandit to Scotland and France

as I said earlier, he has a point.

Apart from the different prop ...

Marler was manshamed by Alexander though.

AlastairW wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Ok you beat the All Blacks (Kudos for that great performance), but the week before you did kind of get manshamed by the Ozzie front row. The very same front row that paid out penalties like a broken bandit to Scotland and France

as I said earlier, he has a point.

Apart from the different prop ...

Marler was manshamed by Alexander though.

He was out for 5 weeks with a knee injury following that game - perhaps that affected his performance?

beshocked wrote:Awww. Poor little Jim Telfer sees England as condescending.

Saracens were boring when they smashed Edinburgh scoring 10 tries to 1 in the two matches. Weren't they? 85-7 aggregate score.

Boring Northampton didn't score many tries against Glasgow either.

Only 7 in two games. That's rubbish!

I don't suppose you see as ironic the fact that your post is arrogant, pretentious and condescending?

Jimpy wrote:

beshocked wrote:Awww. Poor little Jim Telfer sees England as condescending.

Saracens were boring when they smashed Edinburgh scoring 10 tries to 1 in the two matches. Weren't they? 85-7 aggregate score.

Boring Northampton didn't score many tries against Glasgow either.

Only 7 in two games. That's rubbish!

I don't suppose you see as ironic the fact that your post is arrogant, pretentious and condescending?

Who are you imposter? and what have you done with the real jimpy?

nobbled wrote:

AlastairW wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Ok you beat the All Blacks (Kudos for that great performance), but the week before you did kind of get manshamed by the Ozzie front row. The very same front row that paid out penalties like a broken bandit to Scotland and France

as I said earlier, he has a point.

Apart from the different prop ...

Marler was manshamed by Alexander though.

He was out for 5 weeks with a knee injury following that game - perhaps that affected his performance?

Yeah, maybe so. Since Corbs has a bit of a long lay off i do hope Marler grabs this opportunity with both hands though. Always good to see your club players step up.

I think that it is standard pre 6N wind up but given that most of his home nations player experience probably comes from 1997 it is pretty out of date.

At that time I'd been living in Wales for a few years and I always got the feeling that the top players were lazy in the way he described - Talent gets them to the top but then they thought that they had arrived and stopped pushing. They were always less fit than nations like England and I don't really think that there is any excuse for a pro rugby player to not be as fit as others. Remember why Rob Howley left Cardiff for Wasps?

I don't think that they are like that now. Now when I figure out why they go from boom to bust in the space of a season....

Why does Andy Farrell keep biting at all these jabs...

Shut up man...just shrug your shoulders and say "your probably right"...

cuz he's arrogant

And the Scots are tightwads and the French are cowards.

And the Irish do a terrible job fixing your roof and then steal your ladder.

And sell you dodgy Tarmac...

look i dont know about this "arrogant" label that we get tarred with. i think any side of young lads who have had there fair share of success will pick up that tag. maybe its true of some young players. but the older ones have the heads screwed on right and that shows in bouncing back from some bad decisions that cost the games against south africa and australia and to beat the all blacks in some style. we all know that england are at a certain level and scotland at another and its not arrogance to talk about it. if england win the 6n and get a grandslam nobody will be looking sideways. if scotland win it will be a major upset for the tournament and a great thing for them. i would say wales lack a bit of maturity and composure recently rather than being lazy. tell lazy to leigh halfpenny who fought the ais almost single handed. very courageous lad he is to.

'Every time ref'.

Every 6N anyway. Last time it was Fezzer of Ireland banging on before the game about the 'arrogant' English, who responded in the only suitable way: quietly tore apart his pack on the Twickenham turf.

So yeah, shut up Farrell and let the boys' rugby do the talking.

Bathman_in_London wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2269860/Jim-Telfer-England-arrogant-pretentious-condescending.html

The actual article. At what point do comments like this become just the rantings of an old man?

When he is disproved, if Scotland win on Saturday then it will be for two reasons: Either they are a better team or England weren't in the right state of mind. The chances are he's trying to ruffle England up and make them angry, which from Andy Farrell's reaction I think he's succeeded, as one of the England players from the nineties said ( I can't remember who I think it was Dean Richards) England do better in these games when they are emotionless and clinical because then they can expose the gaps left overenthusiastic players looking for a big hit or a match winning try.

Farrell didn't exactly rise to the bait really, he just dismissed it as what it is, a load of nonsense.

The first choice Aussie front row is really not bad at all, Alexander came in for that game against a 2nd choice rusty english prop in Marler. The quins scrum has been very good this year with Marler at the forefront of most of it. Scrums will be pretty even, think the England front row is slightly better but the Scottish 2nd rows bring A LOT of power. England have the better replacements though.

I would have just said "We're English and we have a right to be arrogant."

Faz should have responded "Jim who?"...

to be honest, Jim Telfer slates every team at some point. You should see some of the stuff he writes about Scotland. He's quite often on the money with a lot of it, but I disagree about the English being arrogant (with the exception of Danny Care, who radiates arrogant toerag). Unfortunately the media doesn't help England's case a lot of the time, over-inflating every success.

This said, I think it was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek jibe from him to be honest, Farrell was probably asked what he thought and gave his opinion to the media, probably twisted as per to raise the excitement pre 6Ns.

Well what stupid timing, i bet Scotland and Ireland don't like Telfer to much right now, they are about to feel the wrath of England and Wales.

Surely it's a scrum half's job to radiate arrogant toerag on the pitch?

Alex Cuthbert has responded: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21250809

Duty281 wrote:I would have just said "We're English and we have a right to be arrogant."

Fair one. I thought arrogance table was:
1. South Africa
2. Wales
3. Australia
4. England
5. Ivory Coast
The rest.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

"England are not as good as they think they are," Telfer told the Daily Mail. "

yes.... the daily Fail. A stalwart of Rugby Journalism.

As I said on another thread, Telfer is a passionat scot who wears his heart on his sleeve. He'll have his opinions, as do we all.

However an article in the daily fail, a newspaper renowned for twisting quotes and using them out of context is pretty feeble.

Think of the Daily Fail like a 606v2 poster who only comes along once a year during the 6N trying to wind up other posters and get a bite. It would seem that this article has gotten a lot of bites, with ESPN Scrum, the Torygraph and the beeb all latching onto the story like a pack of bloodthirsty leeches.

Lets be honest.... he does kind of have a point.

Ok you beat the All Blacks (Kudos for that great performance), but the week before you did kind of get manshamed by the Ozzie front row. The very same front row that paid out penalties like a broken bandit to Scotland and France

Actually it was a different front row. The first choices returned from injury.

Shock Horror - Old man speaks the truth that none shall speaketh

He is an old man. Saying what you think without critisism is the perk of living so long. Leave him alone, or by way of balance ask Prince Phillip what he thinks of the Scotish and Welsh and he'll make Jim sound like Nick Clegg on his way out of church

dragonbreath wrote:Shock Horror - Old man speaks the truth that none shall speaketh

He is an old man. Saying what you think without critisism is the perk of living so long. Leave him alone, or by way of balance ask Prince Phillip what he thinks of the Scotish and Welsh and he'll make Jim sound like Nick Clegg on his way out of church

That's also true, Dragon.

Accusing Telfer of being inflammatory is a lot like criticising the cast of Jersey Shore for having a weak knowledge of particle physics.

Yes there are lots if thick people in St Hellier.