Scotland Post Match thread

[123456789]

First topic message reminder :

Positives:
We have a back-three that can score from anywhere
Matt Scott showed he's an international class centre (still question marks over his defence)
Laidlaw showed bits of class and will improve throughout the competition
Beattie's back
Ford was very good when he came on
We appear to be more patient in the opposition 22

Negatives:
Jackson wasn't very good
Lamont isn't a 13
Inconsistent scrummaging
Our defence stands off too much meaning teams like England and New Zealand and England make ground with apparent ease

For next week:
Need to be more aggressive
Maybe Cairns or Grove should be promoted
I'd stay with the same team except I'd start Denton, Ford, Weir and Grove

The question is, was it better to see Scotland weaker in defence but have a far greater attacking threat or better to see Scotland strong defensively but blunt in attack?

[123456789]

Besides, it's not as though we are culturally inferior.

I mean, apart from the Renaissance, Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, Visconti, pizza, Venice, Como, Florence, Pompeii, Capri, barolo and a dozen other amazing grape varietals, Sofia Loren, Monica Belluci, classic tailoring, year round sunshine and good coffee, what have they really got to be smug about?

Very little, I think you'll find.

The TV was ours which quite frankly is better than anything of theirs

[Imperialbigdave]

I think it's fair to say Italy have well and truly over taken us as a rugby nation now.

I think that you're massively overreacting, Glasgow are way ahead of Treviso and Zebre and Edinburgh are ahead of Zebre and only one place below Treviso despite being abysmal all season. Our pro teams have greater attendance figures and so does the national team. There were empty seats at the stadium today against their biggest rival, you would never have that at a Scotland game against England. They beat France at home which is an achivement but we beat Australia away, and not too long ago South Africa at home too. We've beaten every tier one team except New Zealand in the last ten years. They've had one very good result against a poor French performance and had they performed the same way at Murrayfield I'm sure we'd have beaten them and probably by a larger margin.
We still have better players than them, our defence is poor but our team is littered with good players; Hogg, Visser, Maitland, Beattie, Brown, Gray and (on form) Ford are all fantastic players. We had a poor result yesterday which could have been a lot closer had Beattie not fumbled five minutes from the end. I think we're being too pessimistic, only one team scored a length of the field try this weekend and that was us. If we can sort our discipline out we will beat Italy by a good margin. In fact I am prepared to bet anyone £10 we will beat them by more than 10 points.

Maybe at the moment, but that will change very soon if the entire mentality in scottish rugby doesnt change. Italy consistantly play as a team. That is far more than can be said of scotland. While Italy still struggle against the big guys, they put away teams that they are supposed to put away. Scotland always sink and occasionaly rise to the level of the opposition. When was the last time we bossed a game and didnt just react to the opposition? Canada 2008. We havent put a single team away in a complete and convincing performance in over 4 years. The team dont assert their style on anyone, and its because of that that we will continue to regress.

Italy 2011 was pretty convinving

I'd disagree. They had us in the first half, and it was only some week tackling that allowed Nikki Walker to score.

[123456789]

Quite simply they were at home so were driven on by the crowd whereas yesterday after half-time a home crowd would have got behind Scotland and they would have reacted.
At home we have beaten England, Australia and South Africa at home recently and that's why we will beat them next week.

[123456789]

I think it's fair to say Italy have well and truly over taken us as a rugby nation now.

I think that you're massively overreacting, Glasgow are way ahead of Treviso and Zebre and Edinburgh are ahead of Zebre and only one place below Treviso despite being abysmal all season. Our pro teams have greater attendance figures and so does the national team. There were empty seats at the stadium today against their biggest rival, you would never have that at a Scotland game against England. They beat France at home which is an achivement but we beat Australia away, and not too long ago South Africa at home too. We've beaten every tier one team except New Zealand in the last ten years. They've had one very good result against a poor French performance and had they performed the same way at Murrayfield I'm sure we'd have beaten them and probably by a larger margin.
We still have better players than them, our defence is poor but our team is littered with good players; Hogg, Visser, Maitland, Beattie, Brown, Gray and (on form) Ford are all fantastic players. We had a poor result yesterday which could have been a lot closer had Beattie not fumbled five minutes from the end. I think we're being too pessimistic, only one team scored a length of the field try this weekend and that was us. If we can sort our discipline out we will beat Italy by a good margin. In fact I am prepared to bet anyone £10 we will beat them by more than 10 points.

Maybe at the moment, but that will change very soon if the entire mentality in scottish rugby doesnt change. Italy consistantly play as a team. That is far more than can be said of scotland. While Italy still struggle against the big guys, they put away teams that they are supposed to put away. Scotland always sink and occasionaly rise to the level of the opposition. When was the last time we bossed a game and didnt just react to the opposition? Canada 2008. We havent put a single team away in a complete and convincing performance in over 4 years. The team dont assert their style on anyone, and its because of that that we will continue to regress.

Italy 2011 was pretty convinving

I'd disagree. They had us in the first half, and it was only some week tackling that allowed Nikki Walker to score.

But in the end we won by 13 points because our players reacted to the crowd. I would say our team is far better now offensively than it was then.
I never thought I'd say this but we are missing De Luca his distribution and defence would be very helpful at the moment. Absence truly does make the heart grow fonder.

[RDW]

Italy have beaten us 4 out of the last 6 times, and are above us in the world rankings. Rabbo form means nothing when it comes to international ability

[Imperialbigdave]

I think it's fair to say Italy have well and truly over taken us as a rugby nation now.

I think that you're massively overreacting, Glasgow are way ahead of Treviso and Zebre and Edinburgh are ahead of Zebre and only one place below Treviso despite being abysmal all season. Our pro teams have greater attendance figures and so does the national team. There were empty seats at the stadium today against their biggest rival, you would never have that at a Scotland game against England. They beat France at home which is an achivement but we beat Australia away, and not too long ago South Africa at home too. We've beaten every tier one team except New Zealand in the last ten years. They've had one very good result against a poor French performance and had they performed the same way at Murrayfield I'm sure we'd have beaten them and probably by a larger margin.
We still have better players than them, our defence is poor but our team is littered with good players; Hogg, Visser, Maitland, Beattie, Brown, Gray and (on form) Ford are all fantastic players. We had a poor result yesterday which could have been a lot closer had Beattie not fumbled five minutes from the end. I think we're being too pessimistic, only one team scored a length of the field try this weekend and that was us. If we can sort our discipline out we will beat Italy by a good margin. In fact I am prepared to bet anyone £10 we will beat them by more than 10 points.

Maybe at the moment, but that will change very soon if the entire mentality in scottish rugby doesnt change. Italy consistantly play as a team. That is far more than can be said of scotland. While Italy still struggle against the big guys, they put away teams that they are supposed to put away. Scotland always sink and occasionaly rise to the level of the opposition. When was the last time we bossed a game and didnt just react to the opposition? Canada 2008. We havent put a single team away in a complete and convincing performance in over 4 years. The team dont assert their style on anyone, and its because of that that we will continue to regress.

Italy 2011 was pretty convinving

I'd disagree. They had us in the first half, and it was only some week tackling that allowed Nikki Walker to score.

But in the end we won by 13 points because our players reacted to the crowd. I would say our team is far better now offensively than it was then.
I never thought I'd say this but we are missing De Luca his distribution and defence would be very helpful at the moment. Absence truly does make the heart grow fonder.

But it wasnt convincing though. We didnt dominate that game, which is the point im trying to make. For the first 40 minutes, it looked like we were going to lose. We havent had a game since canada 08 where we have never looked like losing.

[GLove39]

I think it's fair to say Italy have well and truly over taken us as a rugby nation now.

I think that you're massively overreacting, Glasgow are way ahead of Treviso and Zebre and Edinburgh are ahead of Zebre and only one place below Treviso despite being abysmal all season. Our pro teams have greater attendance figures and so does the national team. There were empty seats at the stadium today against their biggest rival, you would never have that at a Scotland game against England. They beat France at home which is an achivement but we beat Australia away, and not too long ago South Africa at home too. We've beaten every tier one team except New Zealand in the last ten years. They've had one very good result against a poor French performance and had they performed the same way at Murrayfield I'm sure we'd have beaten them and probably by a larger margin.
We still have better players than them, our defence is poor but our team is littered with good players; Hogg, Visser, Maitland, Beattie, Brown, Gray and (on form) Ford are all fantastic players. We had a poor result yesterday which could have been a lot closer had Beattie not fumbled five minutes from the end. I think we're being too pessimistic, only one team scored a length of the field try this weekend and that was us. If we can sort our discipline out we will beat Italy by a good margin. In fact I am prepared to bet anyone £10 we will beat them by more than 10 points.

Maybe at the moment, but that will change very soon if the entire mentality in scottish rugby doesnt change. Italy consistantly play as a team. That is far more than can be said of scotland. While Italy still struggle against the big guys, they put away teams that they are supposed to put away. Scotland always sink and occasionaly rise to the level of the opposition. When was the last time we bossed a game and didnt just react to the opposition? Canada 2008. We havent put a single team away in a complete and convincing performance in over 4 years. The team dont assert their style on anyone, and its because of that that we will continue to regress.

Italy 2011 was pretty convinving

I'd disagree. They had us in the first half, and it was only some week tackling that allowed Nikki Walker to score.

But in the end we won by 13 points because our players reacted to the crowd. I would say our team is far better now offensively than it was then.
I never thought I'd say this but we are missing De Luca his distribution and defence would be very helpful at the moment. Absence truly does make the heart grow fonder.

But it wasnt convincing though. We didnt dominate that game, which is the point im trying to make. For the first 40 minutes, it looked like we were going to lose. We havent had a game since canada 08 where we have never looked like losing.

Very true, in the Italy game if they'd kicked better and Paterson hadn't pulled off another last ditch tackle it would have been a very nervy finish or quite possibly a loss.

And as for dominating a team, ahhh how I hark back to that Canadian game. Maybe we should schedule a match against Finland..?

[123456789]

When was the last time Italy "dominated" a game, they've beaten us four out of the last six times, but crucially only once at Murrayfield but that was the result of a terrible Godman/Cusiter display.
We have better players than they do, but for them we are a big game, they view us as there major chance to win a game whereas we see ourselves above that and so for us and seemingly our players it isn't the most important game which is why they are hungrier than us. Also when we have beaten them over the last few years (it's actually three times because our second sting beat their first in a world cup warm-up) we've beaten them by a decent margin whereas they've scraped past us.
Italy played well today but they were helped by a vocal crowd and the worst French performance that I've ever seen (and I watched them play Tonga). Away from home Italy are a different animal, and at home so are we. Think how poor we were last year against Italy yet they beat us only by four points whilst they played well we are still, for the time being, ahead of them as a rugby nation.

[Imperialbigdave]

Italy put smaller teams away. We dont. Italy dont constantly change their style depending on the opposition and therefore contantly have something new going wrong. We do.

And you think our crowd seriously makes a difference? Not that it makes any difference to the players, but we have the worst crowd around. Travelling fans always make more noise than the prawn sandwich brigade.

they view us as there major chance to win a game whereas we see ourselves above that and so for us and seemingly our players it isn't the most important game which is why they are hungrier than us.

Then we are deluded.

[123456789]

Italy put smaller teams away. We dont. Italy dont constantly change their style depending on the opposition and therefore contantly have something new going wrong. We do.

And you think our crowd seriously makes a difference? Not that it makes any difference to the players, but we have the worst crowd around. Travelling fans always make more noise than the prawn sandwich brigade.

they view us as there major chance to win a game whereas we see ourselves above that and so for us and seemingly our players it isn't the most important game which is why they are hungrier than us.

Then we are deluded.

The fact is that they won't have their fans, we have better players than us and after half-time when France would have pulled away in Paris the Italian fans got behind them and you could tell that the French expected Italy to drop off around the sixty minute mark by their reaction when they didn't. There will be no such crowd reaction. Also, the very fact that the Scotland team will feel a lot more at home at Murrayfield than Italy will make a difference.

[bsando]

Okay, Scotland vs Italy going by this weekends performances...

1. Grant vs Cicero = Grant
2. Hall vs Ghiraldini = Ghiraldini
3. Murray vs Castrogiovanni = Castrogiovanni
4. Gray vs Geldenhuws = Gray
5. Minto vs Hamilton = Minto
6. Denton vs Zanni = tie
7. Brown vs favarro = Brown
8. Beattie vs Parrisse = Parrisse
9. Laidlaw vs Botes = botes
10. Jackson vs orquera = orquera
11. Visser vs Maclean = tie
12. Scott vs sgarbi = tie
13. Lamont vs benvenuti = benvenuti
14. Maitland vs vendetta = Maitland
15. Hogg vs masi = Hogg

So 3 tie, Scotland 5, Italy 7

Obviously England and France are totally different kettle of fish, but Italy looked the best team this weekend after Ireland and England. Very organised and playing with confidence, never doubting they could win. Their win over France 2 years ago was shakey but well fought. Today's victory was clinical and structured. Last time I remember Scotland doing that in 6 nations was away to Wales yet we bottled it n last 5 mins.

[123456789]

Okay, Scotland vs Italy going by this weekends performances...

1. Grant vs Cicero = Grant
2. Hall vs Ghiraldini = Ghiraldini
3. Murray vs Castrogiovanni = Castrogiovanni
4. Gray vs Geldenhuws = Gray
5. Minto vs Hamilton = Minto
6. Denton vs Zanni = tie
7. Brown vs favarro = Brown
8. Beattie vs Parrisse = Parrisse
9. Laidlaw vs Botes = botes
10. Jackson vs orquera = orquera
11. Visser vs Maclean = tie
12. Scott vs sgarbi = tie
13. Lamont vs benvenuti = benvenuti
14. Maitland vs vendetta = Maitland
15. Hogg vs masi = Hogg

So 3 tie, Scotland 5, Italy 7

Obviously England and France are totally different kettle of fish, but Italy looked the best team this weekend after Ireland and England. Very organised and playing with confidence, never doubting they could win. Their win over France 2 years ago was shakey but well fought. Today's victory was clinical and structured. Last time I remember Scotland doing that in 6 nations was away to Wales yet we bottled it n last 5 mins.

Difference is that the French forwards were a pile of crap and so the Italian half-backs could play do what they wanted Laidlaw and Jackson were under constant pressure. Any team in the top 12 of the world rankings would have beaten France today, they were useless and didn't react to going behind until the last two minutes. They either didn't care or were arrogant, but they had no structure. Based on the two performances the Italian players were better but the two teams they played were completely different, every tier one team would have beaten France and no tier one team (except New Zealand) would have beaten England. Scotland will win next week.

We hardly bottled it, half our team was injured, Scott Lawson was a pillock and Phil Godman played out of position and was unlucky that Byrne is a cheating ball of fake tan and unfulfilled potential and dived when he tried to chip it over. Anyway later on in that tournament we played a structured and clinical game away from home against an Ireland team that was far superior to the French performance today.

[bsando]

Hopefully, but Italy's forwards will be tough to breakdown. They're going to make life very difficult for us. All I'm saying is I will not be shocked at all if we have a shocker next weekend and lose by a lot.

[123456789]

Hopefully, but Italy's forwards will be tough to breakdown. They're going to make life very difficult for us. All I'm saying is I will not be shocked at all if we have a shocker next weekend and lose by a lot.

I will not be surprised if we win by a considerable margin

[R!skysports]

I really do not see how we can be positive.

Yes a couple of players played well individually, but every aspect of our game, defence, structured attack, tackling, game plan, all were school kid level.


This IMO was another step backwards for us.

Focusing on how a couple of players did is covering over the cracks.

[123456789]

I really do not see how we can be positive.

Yes a couple of players played well individually, but every aspect of our game, defence, structured attack, tackling, game plan, all were school kid level.


This IMO was another step backwards for us.

Focusing on how a couple of players did is covering over the cracks.

Positives were that we scored two terrific tries and our broken play/ turnover attack looked very dangerous negatives were defensive, but the English were very good and very clinical so I think a true reflection of where we are will come over the next three weeks against Italy, who we should be beating, Wales, who are on a worse run than us, and Ireland, who are better than us but beatable.

[R!skysports]

Two break away tries against the run of play. Great to get them. But Until we can actually create tries we will lose more often than not.

England were good, but we helped them by have a swing door defence and deciding to not get in there way at breakdowns.

It was embarrassing

[123456789]

Two break away tries against the run of play. Great to get them. But Until we can actually create tries we will lose more often than not.

England were good, but we helped them by have a swing door defence and deciding to not get in there way at breakdowns.

It was embarrassing

The best attacking teams in the world (NZ, France, Australia) punish other teams mistakes, if we can start to do that we can build from there. If we can get out defence back to the fantastic level it was at and play off turnover ball, opposition mistakes and broken play then we will get results. Structured attack can't be expected after two weeks with a new coaching team whereas the core of the England team have spent a year with the same coaches working on the same things so were far more structured.7
The defence was embarrassing but that can be worked on bearing in mind the majority of that team are from Glasgow who have a fantastic defence as is the coach whereas I disagree about the attack which I thought showed promise and ambition.

[bsando]

Agreed risky!

Numbers is right though, England played very well and France did have a shocker, so it's difficult to judge how we'll fare. But looking at how both teams played its pretty clear Italy have the better gameplan and/or can implement it better.

Scotland were weak up front, could barely string phases together and as you say we're dropping off tackles playing terrible defence.

Italy were very quick and were offloading extremely well. they looked like the all blacks at times, running up the side of the pitch with 4 players following ready for the offload. Botes and orquera were both fantastic! Botes was quick to get the ball out of rucks and didn't fanny about, leaving big gaps in French defence
At times, always keeping pressure and momentum on. Orquera had an excellent game too.

In contrast, our forwards couldn't secure ball at times so Laidlaw had little chance to distribute it to be fair. but when we did have ball he loves to have a conversation before he passes it, giving England all the time in the world to reform defence. He also kicks ball away when we should be bloody putting it through the hands!!! Neither him or Jackson tried to go for a run, it was all very boring and predictable.

Sh and fh are such important positions. I really think Johnson has shot himself in the foot by saying that he wants Laidlaw at 9. It seems to me he has to start every game now which I think is plain silly when boys like Prygos and Kennedy are playing well.

[123456789]

Agreed risky!

Numbers is right though, England played very well and France did have a shocker, so it's difficult to judge how we'll fare. But looking at how both teams played its pretty clear Italy have the better gameplan and/or can implement it better.

Scotland were weak up front, could barely string phases together and as you say we're dropping off tackles playing terrible defence.

Italy were very quick and were offloading extremely well. they looked like the all blacks at times, running up the side of the pitch with 4 players following ready for the offload. Botes and orquera were both fantastic! Botes was quick to get the ball out of rucks and didn't fanny about, leaving big gaps in French defence
At times, always keeping pressure and momentum on. Orquera had an excellent game too.

In contrast, our forwards couldn't secure ball at times so Laidlaw had little chance to distribute it to be fair. but when we did have ball he loves to have a conversation before he passes it, giving England all the time in the world to reform defence. He also kicks ball away when we should be bloody putting it through the hands!!! Neither him or Jackson tried to go for a run, it was all very boring and predictable.

Sh and fh are such important positions. I really think Johnson has shot himself in the foot by saying that he wants Laidlaw at 9. It seems to me he has to start every game now which I think is plain silly when boys like Prygos and Kennedy are playing well.

On the bright side if we get the spoon we might get a proper coach, I want Robinson back. I want the boring toughness of his teams which had a habit of losing but the desire to stay in games which is absent now, I want his crap selections over the weak defence of Johnson.
I blame Bradley for this, he's reduced a team of quality internationals who don't know what a tryline or tackle is. Despite the heavy Glasgow contingent the overall attitude seems to be the Edinburgh one which is odd.

[RDW]

Bit too far blaming Edinburgh for this one I think...

[bsando]

But he has a point I think. Just watching first half again. Every attacking opportunity apart from Hogg break, either Laidlaw, Hogg or Jackson are booting the ball away. Hogg at least calls for someone to run on to it. Glasgow don't play like that do they? Boot the ball all you like from 22 but on halfway line, every fecking time!! No! It's pot luck, gambling. I was too drunk to notice yesterday but god it's woeful.we have all these backs who can run and we're just booting the ball away tactics are totally wrong.

[Imperialbigdave]

Id expect that kind off guff from schizoid, but not you numbers. How can Edinburgh be at fault when there were only 3 of them in the 15?

Also bsando, they were forced to kick. Come on man, look at how bad our ball retention was. If theyd put it through the hands, they would inevitably get turned over. Bearing in mind we spent most of the game in our own half, it would be suicidal. The few times there was a counter attack on the cards, they took it.

[bsando]

No way imperial, watch first half again mate. Halfway line, we boot it away. We never even tried to breakdown their defence. They were not forced to kick, they were just doing it again and again. It is Exactly same way Edinburgh have been playing. I don't mind kicks when pressure is too much, but kick to space, not up in the air with no one running on to it. England just retained ball, and ran up with ease. We essentially put pressure on ourselves and England took full advantage of it.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

God the armchair crtiics are out in force tonight !

[bsando]

I wish I had an arm chair, all I have some piece of crap from ikea.

[Imperialbigdave]

God the armchair crtiics are out in force tonight !

hate to break it to you but youre on a rugby forum, im not sure what you expect?

[bsando]

Yes it Is kind of the point isn't it. Everyone has different views, we try to convey these views whilst politely taking on board those of others since I've been on here I've learned loads about rugby.

One aspect that was great vs England was how well Scotland dealt with kicks going deep into Scotland half. Counter attacking from there and hoggs huge boot were very good. If we could just chuck ball round a bit more when out of 22 then things may improve a lot!

[123456789]

Id expect that kind off guff from schizoid, but not you numbers. How can Edinburgh be at fault when there were only 3 of them in the 15?

Also bsando, they were forced to kick. Come on man, look at how bad our ball retention was. If theyd put it through the hands, they would inevitably get turned over. Bearing in mind we spent most of the game in our own half, it would be suicidal. The few times there was a counter attack on the cards, they took it.

I meant that they resembled Edinburgh when they played; a team full of decent individuals who don't work together and give away metres for fun in contrast to Glasgow who seem to have a determination not to give the opposition anything which means they come away from games against arguably superior teams with favourable results in contrast to Edinburgh who have individuals like Scott, Laidlaw, Visser, Ford and Tonks who are good but lose games they could easily win. Not that I'm saying that Scotland could have easily won on Saturday just that had they shown the Glasgow grit and determination after half-time they could have been in the game going into the last quarter.

[George Carlin]

First things first, I think that we have a right to be angry.

It was foreseeable that England would be slicker and their defensive sequences solid (that's just the product of having played together for longer) but there's no way that an interntional team should be unable recycle throught he phases with confidence in the normal course of the match. In addition, it seemed as through there was eventually capitulation at the breakdown, which really was not acceptable.

Gary Armstrong always said that he never played like he was afraid because he was more afraid of hating himself afterwards for not doing service to the shirt and I think that we need a bit more of that.

I think it's also reasonable to expect that we should be able to build on what were our strengths from 2008-2010 - i.e. a solid, well organised defence and forward control and it's inexplicable that these now seem to be areas of concern. I am not in favour of throwing out bairns with the bathwater but we cannot continue to send the message that Robinson did, which is that even if you perform badly (not just that you were beaten by a better team, but if you do not perform to the standards of which you are capable) you will keep your place. The most poignant comment from John Beattie Senior this week was the one about Scottish players receiving too much too early. That has a ring of truth about it. We have options now and need to maintain a balance between not being reactionary and recognising that if this tournament really is about growing as a team, we cannot let poor performances go unrecognised.

In terms of Italy, there has to be a balance between recognising the challenge and still expecting that we will kill ourselves to defend home turf.

We need to try and be a bit measured. Italy will look for high tempo but they simply will not (I think, cannot) be as focused and fired up as they will be for a game against France (their 'auld enemy'), in their flagship stadium, in front of a big crowd, on the first day of a new 6N tournament. That said, it was a tremendous, slick, smart and professional performance and a few things are now clear about how we have to play:

1. We have to have a fetcher. Zanni was a jackal all day and was responsible for the chaos in midfield that won Italy the game. I don't care about how big or small he is supposed to be, relatively speaking, Fusaro absolutely has to play unless a limb is hanging off. Perhaps even 2 limbs.

2. The scrum has to front up. Grant, Hall and Murray were passable against England and just about got parity, but we need another level from them now - Lo Ciciero and Castro were flying and I cannot believe how well they contained a first choice French front row.

3. We need to play a possession and territorial game. Italy seemed more than fit enough for the high tempo game that they played and the amazing thing about the French match was that there were hardly any restarts. We need to take the sting out of it somehow and playing Jackson there (who seemed unable to vary things at all against England) does not fill me with confidence. I am willing to give him one more shot but can we please all note now that Heathcote has actually been playing well for Barf for quite some time. I hope he makes a good decision about his career there now that Ford is moving to compete for the shirt.

[RDW]

Some confusing comments from SJ in the Scotsman this morning - first he suggests that he isn't going to make wholesale changes for the sake of it, then he says there may be some instances where he will make changes!

Suggests the team will be announced tomorrow as well - surely that's a bit early after such a physical game?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/six-nations-johnson-in-no-rush-to-chop-and-change-1-2774276

[MacKnocked-on]

Still can't fathom why Grove doesn't get called up, what does he have to do to get selected? And to make matters worse Walker gets called up, I simply can't see the logic. Also surely Tonks would be a better bench option than Evans? Also, said it before, but Jackson simply isn't an international standard player.

[George Carlin]

The Jackson issue is actually one of our biggest and will be the first real indication of what kind of selector Johnson is.

You're in one of two camps - either you feel that Rhubarb got no help at all from his pack and did a serviceable job whilst living off scraps or you regard the glass as half empty and therefore he did nothing to warrant keeping this place. If you aren't going to try a newbie like Heathcote (or less new, Weir) against Italy at home, when are you going to?

ALL international games matter. One thing you can say about England is that they're now building with a clear core for the next RWC. We're at the stage of trying to ascertain what our core will be. We cannot do that unless we see people in test match situations. As I've said, he actually did fair work at the breakdown but just as I am happy for RJ to be given another chance, I would also see the sense in replacing him.

[RDW]

Why are we so good at messing things up?

We put the effort in to convert a scrum half to stand off - where last year he performed admirably - but after 18 months give him a couple of games at 9 then throw him into the action in the 6N.

I hope this doesn't end up ruining Laidlaw's career because I think he is one of the best rugby talents in the country and deserves better.

[Solid8]

Over the weekend I met a friend who has a very good idea of what is going on internally at Murrayfield, he was adamant that Robinson resigned over frustration towards Richie Gray and David Denton. Apparently their attitudes are causing friction in the team and may be at the root of all of the comments about not following the game-plan that came towards the end of Andy Robinson's tenure. The more I think about this the more afraid I get that it is not idle gossip, our pack is not playing as a unit, while we have some talented boys in the pack it counts for nought if they do not play together.

I can see why this may be the case, Gray and Denton have both been heralded as great players in both the English and Scottish press, they are young guys who play for a team that of late has not exactly been held up as a hotbed of talent. Is it possible that this has gone to their heads and they now believe the hype? If it is the case how does someone like Johnson beat some sense into them?

[mystiroakey]

I am truely looking forward to next week.

And I am looking forward to scotland v italy big time as well!!

I think its gonna be a cracker.. What ever you Scottish fans say(and possibly justified from a fan!). I think you did ok and v italy its gonna be a 'realitively' titanic battle!

[RDW]

Wow that is gossip! Solid8! I'm a massive fan of Denton but this season he's definitely been believing his hype too much and hos performances suffered.

surprised about gray though - he's always seemed quite level headed.

[MacKnocked-on]

Over the weekend I met a friend who has a very good idea of what is going on internally at Murrayfield, he was adamant that Robinson resigned over frustration towards Richie Gray and David Denton. Apparently their attitudes are causing friction in the team and may be at the root of all of the comments about not following the game-plan that came towards the end of Andy Robinson's tenure. The more I think about this the more afraid I get that it is not idle gossip, our pack is not playing as a unit, while we have some talented boys in the pack it counts for nought if they do not play together.

I can see why this may be the case, Gray and Denton have both been heralded as great players in both the English and Scottish press, they are young guys who play for a team that of late has not exactly been held up as a hotbed of talent. Is it possible that this has gone to their heads and they now believe the hype? If it is the case how does someone like Johnson beat some sense into them?

If there's any truth in these rumours then the solution is simple, you drop them. Scotland may not be overly blessed with lots of playing options but I think we can probably cover lock and backrow fairly well.

[alive555]

it would be good if your contact can find out just how many more schools are playing rugby this year compared to the last few years

that can be measured and if they are not growing by 5pc per year they should resign

[alive555]

gray played pretty well and the lineout also went well

cant see what part of that game needs addressed above others such as defence and competing at rucks

i do think hamilton needs to be benched with swinston coming in.

[funnyExiledScot]

That rumour about Gray and Denton surprises me in terms of attitude, but I can certainly believe that neither are particularly robotic players when it comes to gameplan.

I see that as both a strength and a weakness. When both are on top form much of their strength come from playing off the cuff and blasting through gaps. But in a game like Saturday, when you need your blindside (Denton) to be focused on hitting rucks and doing the dirty work, having him standing in the line waiting for the glory run is beyond useless.

He's being doing it all season for Edinburgh, and it's why he and Talei haven't worked this season at 6 and 8 respectively. It's fine for your number 8 to play the unstructured roaming role, as Parisse does for Italy and Talei does for Edinburgh, but if you have 2 or 3 players in that function (as we did with Gray, Denton and Beattie), then you're just plain unstructured, and even worse if you have several other forwards who are not particularly mobile (Murray and Hamilton). The only players who seemed to be bothered about rucks were Hall, Grant and Brown, plus Hamilton when he could get there. England had an entire front row basically acting as flankers, and Wood, Launchbury, Parling and Robshaw all working tirelessly at securing quick ball for the backs. That enabled Morgan to focus almost exclusively on carrying the ball.

The comment above about this having anything to do with Bradley or Edinburgh is of course absurd, it is certainly true that the balance of the pack was all wrong, and several of us spotted this prior to the game. If you're going to play a backrow without an openside, and have both Gray and Beattie playing a loose game in terms of structure, then you need the rest of the pack to be combative and mobile, with exceptional workrates and breakdown skills. Murray was the only sensible option at prop, but we needed Swinson at lock (or Harley on the bench rather than Denton) to counter the imbalance in the back row.

[George Carlin]

Surely SJ will not be naming his team tomorrow?

WTF is the point in that?

[MacKnocked-on]

Swinson isn't in the squad is he?

[A World Cup and 3 Finals]

With the likes of Beattie, Denton, Gray, Hog, Visser etc you have the core of a good team. I thought you looked like a team with a plan, patience and some confidence who will certainly improve. I predict victories over Italy and Wales this year and more to follow.

[funnyExiledScot]

With the likes of Beattie, Denton, Gray, Hog, Visser etc you have the core of a good team. I thought you looked like a team with a plan, patience and some confidence who will certainly improve. I predict victories over Italy and Wales this year and more to follow.

You are far wiser than your user name suggests.

[123456789]

As far as I'm concerned the importance of this year is confidence, we were never going to win a Grand Slam, but if we can get at least two home wins and not be too far off winning any of them then it is a success. We should be looking at next year when we have France and England at home and by which time Weir, Heathcote and Bennett will hopefully have come through. I now believe that Dunbar is a superior player to Scott in that he is powerful enough to be a crash ball centre but is quick, agile and has a pass too. I think we should start putting a core together that a new coach can come in and move on. That core should be set by the end of the summer tour this year. Also we are really missing Rennie who is one of the world's best fetchers and if he can get back and on form could find himself on the Lions tour.

[123456789]

On the bright side the players have been honest about the game rather than the Robinson "there were many positives" bilge, Maitland said they didn't do the jersey justice, Hogg was asked about his personal performance and replied that it didn't matter because they lost so I'm optimistic for saturday.

[funnyExiledScot]

Like that response from Hogg. He's becoming a very impressive international player, and although he's had a fairly shaky season at Glasgow, particularly the 1st half, he really is hitting form at a good time for Scotland and for himself personally.

If you want the international rugby community to take note, a performance like that in a losing cause is the way to do it.

I agree on forming the core for the squad going forward, but I don't think Johnson and Ryan are a million miles away with selections.

[Solid8]

On the bright side the players have been honest about the game rather than the Robinson "there were many positives" bilge, Maitland said they didn't do the jersey justice, Hogg was asked about his personal performance and replied that it didn't matter because they lost so I'm optimistic for saturday.

I think the Maitland quote highlights the difference in attitude between New Zealand and the NH more than anything else. Typically if a NH team under-performs the immediate attitude is to look for positives, then negatives. In my experience of playing against Kiwi teams and with Kiwi exchange players at school if you under-perform you say, and you are told, "That wasn't good enough!" and are then expected to use that knowledge to motivate yourself to play better. I hope that the quote from Hogg means that this attitude is wearing off on his colleagues in the team and that we can expect to see more of it going forward.

[123456789]

Weir's being used on the Scottish rugby facebook page to promote the game, it could be a hint.

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