Haye Vs. Nelson - The Best British Cruiserweight?

It is often said that Haye is the best British Cruiserweight without doubt. I would agree with the concensus that Haye would beat Nelson, (In what could be one of the stinkers of the century) however I'm not entirely sure in terms of there respective ledgers during there Cruiserweight primes.

The Cruiserweight Division has never really had all that much depth in terms of talent, so it can make it slightly difficult in terms of judging opponents.

So let's start with Nelson first, obviously Nelson was an extremely slow starter in boxing, laughed out of the gym but persevered even after losing his first 3 bouts. Eventually, however Nelson started to get better through pure hard work and self belief which is extremely admirable, "The Entertainer" was able to take scalps due to being so incredibly frsutrating, having such an awkward style that was based on pure athletic ability with awkward movement against a lot of Cruiserweights that were a lot slower than him. After a while Nelson was able to beat enough journeymen and highish ranked British fighters to get himself an opportunity for the British Title and then after winning that got himself a shot at the WBC Belt.

He fought De Leon and, jesus, have to be frank, it's difficult to sit through that fight, it quite possibly is among one of the worst fights ever witnessed. It ended in a draw in a fight that was virtually unscorable due to the amount of punches thrown. However, Nelson continued, became a sparring partner out in other countries and started back from the bottom, eventually earning himself a European Title and then another World Title shot.

However, he lost to James Warring extremely convincingly and really put in a very negative and poor performance and coasting to a points loss. He then went to Heavyweight with extremely mixed results, being little more than a journeyman, until finally he hit a good run of form back down at Cruiserweight, and here's where I believe Nelson should truly be judged, here I think he had full self confidence, had learned an awful lot of the game and was at his very best. He took on an older but still dangerous Carl Thompson and managed to finally prove himself in a breakout performance which saw Nelson lift himself to a new level. He then went on to defend his title 13 times successfully, although the quality he fought during that reign wasn't always the greatest, he did beat a few decent ranked contenders around at the time and the longevity of defending any title 13 times has to be taken seriously.

Now let's head over to David Haye's career which is a little more known, Haye had a fantastic amateur background winning a silver in the World Amateur Championships and was well touted as a pro, knocking out everyone until his first real test as a pro. Of course Carl Thompson, years earlier had been KOed by Johnny Nelson, it was most certainly a green David Haye, a slightly naive one that believed so much and purely relied on his power and being able to overwhelm his opponent by being bigger, quicker and hitting harder using all of his physical attributes. Of course, Thomspon took a lot of punishment, Haye gasses, Thompson KO's Haye.

My opinion is that from there on in Haye was VERY wary of gassing again, and that's why he began pot shotting far more often and always making sure that he always had a lot in reserve and always making sure he didn't exert himself too much to conserve his stamina. He then went onto a what felt like at the time, make or break fight against Gurov and he knocked him out in a single round. He then defended his title against Fragomeni in a gruelling war and peaked at two very good wins, one against Jean Marc Mormeck away from home in France and a knockout win unifying the titles against Maccarinelli.

However that's where it ends and Haye moves up to Heavyweight. Now of course, it's clear just by assessing this and Haye's relative success at Heavyweight Haye is the much better fighter. However, how do they match up in terms of career achievements? Well, Haye actually did unify the titles and became universally recognised as the number 1 fighter in the division, something that Nelson didn't do, face another champion whilst champion. However, Nelsons longevity as champion of 13 successful defences matches up ok against Haye's 2 world title fights albeit Haye's of a higher calibre.

So how do you think it matches up between the two? Who in your opinion is the best British Cruiserweight between the two, taking into account that Nelson, although was green and didn't really make an impact until years into his career has to affect his standing someway, however it depends on how much you rate his 13 title defences of 12 wins and 1 draw, and how much you hold his start against him. Likewise I guess how you rank Haye's only loss putting it in contrast with Nelsons late start and Haye's amateur experience, pesonally I prefer to judge fighters more on there primes but take into account things that happened before and after, depending on how far before and after. My personal feeling is that Haye fought better opposition as I feel that Haye's opposition at European level was occassionally actually better than a fair few of Nelsons world title bouts and also the fact that HAye became virtually undisputed number 1, (He would have sparked Cunningham early) and then unifying just takes the dge, but in my opinion most certainly worth considering.

Wittered on a bit and I attempted to keep it as vague as possible, though it's very difficult when taking into account two fighters who fought even in just slightly different eras.

Thoughts?

Good article, Alex, though as much as I respect Johnny I can't make any case for him to be considered a better Cruiserweight than Haye. The only thing he has going for him here is his win over Thompson (albeit achieved via a somewhat questionable stoppage) whereas Haye lost to him, but outside of that Haye has more than enough on his record to turn the tide in his favour.

Longevity as a titlist doesn't particularly mean a great deal to me if the fighter in question isn't taking on the best his division has to offer; there were some decent fighters around in Nelson's day who all held titles at 190 / 200 lb such as Jirov, Mormeck etc, and even a shopworn Hill, and Nelson managed nary a fight against any of them.

Like him or not, even Haye's biggest critics have to concede that going to the backyard of a consensus divisonal kingpin and peeling yourself of the canvas to win, even if it's not a weight class of staggering quality, is a feat we don't see British fighters accomplishing all that often.

Nelson was a titlist, Haye was THE champion, at the end of the day. By at least showing that he had the ambition to make his claim over the division absolute, and then doing it, Haye clearly outstrips Nelson even if his title tenure only lasted a couple of fights.

Nelson obviously developed in to a good, solid fighter, but Haye was / is just the much better natural talent. Johnny middled his way through his championship career while Haye, as disappointing as his subsequent Heavyweight career has been in more than one respect, quickly rose to the very top of the Cruiserweight division and did, for an admittedly short while, give it some much needed life and excitement.

Nelson is an nice bloke but he would get a one sided beatdown from Haye. Haye is different class.

Much as I would dearly love it to be otherwise I have got to agree with Chris on this , much as I don't care for the man Haye established himself as the man at the weight and in going over to Mormeck's back yard to do so did it in some style. Whilst I think Johnny is a far better fighter than he gets credit for and think at his best would have been a handful for any of the other titlists he was never the man or really close to being considered so.

However the only thing I would add is I have always felt a fight between the two is not the foregone conclusion many would have you believe. Haye never showed exceptional stamin at the weight as he rarely needed it but Johnny was not a guy who was easy to catch clean and also had a decent set of whiskers when clipped, also had decent power when he let his hands go. Have to think Haye is the smart pick but if Johnny is still there at the half way stage and I suspect he would be it could definitely get interesting.

Haye would spark Nelson out before it even gets to half way. He dont usually fight 12 rounds because his power puts his opponents down and keeps em down. Haye can smash out heavyweights. Nelson dont have a prayer of beatig him and Haye proved his stamina against Klitschko and Valuev. He can fight 12 rounds no bother.

Flip side of that is Nelson has fought plenty of heavies and not been put over. To be fair you have a point about Haye's stamina, anyone who can last the full 12 rounds at the electric pace set in the Klitschko and Valuev fights clearly has stamina to burn.

Yeah mate have you watched Jonny Nelson fight? You reckon hes going to be setting a hot pace do you? Haye does him easy and in good style.

Have watched Nelson probably more than anyone other than a masocist should really do. As I said in my initial post Haye is probably the smart pick but saw nothing during Nelson's reign at cruiser to suggest anyone walks through him at that weight, including Haye.

Nelson never fought no one half as good as Haye. Nothing against Jonny but hes in over his head against Haye.

Carl Thompson?

Nelson??????

You guys never saw Warring-Nelson for the IBF.....They were booing his constant holding from the middle of the 1st round onwards...

Think he was threatened with removal about twenty times in that fight...shouldn't have been paid!!

And Warring was crud...Made Deleon-Nelson look like Hagler-Hearns..

Haye by a country mile..................

I agree with the consensus that Haye would be favoured to win but as this fight is based on them both at their best, then it would be a hard night for Haye. Yes David is an explosive puncher and a big man at the weight, but he would be up against a fighter of equal physical stature who would at least in the early rounds could make Haye miss and punish him in return.

At his best Nelson could be very elusive and hit hard enough to hurt anyone at the weight.

Yes I would pick David to win but no where near as easy as some have stated on here.

Nelson never fought no one half as good as Haye.

It took me more than two goes to decipher that sentence.