England Changes Vs Ireland?

First topic message reminder :

I thought it was a good all round team performance from England against the Scots, particularly in the pack but I do not think anyone had a bad game as such. England showed the intent to move the ball quickly throughout the game, this did leave them open to turnovers and counter attacks, as a result of this the likes of brown and Goode were stretched defensively. So despite what could be perceived as flaky defensive displays I think Lancaster will continue with, what has been his policy up to this point, and try to pick the same team next week.

At this point I have to say that Mike Browns positioning and decision making out on the wing was directly responsible for the Scots first try, in a game where England are not so dominant up front it is errors like this that could lead to crucial scores. I thought Brown was excellent again in attack and want to see him in the team vs Ireland. I am sure im not the only one who would like to see brown at full back and a winger brought in but I dont think Lancaster will do this as there are no wingers in the squad demanding selection. Wade should be in the squad.

Apart from that we have the potential return of Tuilagi. Now, a fit and firing tuilagi is a certain starter but the policy is play your way back in, and he should be given every opportunity to do so from the bench, if he does come back firing then the question of who he replaces will be asked on the next test weekend.

The only other selection questions may come from injuries and knocks that tend to emerge in the days after a test match but the only one I have heard is Morgans ankle and nothing to suggest he is not fit, if he isnt, its Haskell for me. Haskell is unfortunate not to be in the side anyway, different player to morgan but against a strong Irish back row it could be a benefit having him there.

[quote="Munchkin"]

Triangulation wrote:I have noticed that with the exceptions of Healey and Heaslip, all of the Irish players have skinny little chicken legs.

I think we should exploit this. .[/quote

Luke Marshall has massive legs, but sadly injured at the mo', although have heard he will be on the Ulster bench v Ospreys. Would love to have seen him next to Bod for this game.

Chickeniest legs in the Ireland team:

1Simon Zebo
2Donnacha Ryan
3Connor Murray
4Craig Gilroy

[quote="GunsGerms"]

Munchkin wrote:

Triangulation wrote:I have noticed that with the exceptions of Healey and Heaslip, all of the Irish players have skinny little chicken legs.

I think we should exploit this. .[/quote

Luke Marshall has massive legs, but sadly injured at the mo', although have heard he will be on the Ulster bench v Ospreys. Would love to have seen him next to Bod for this game.

Chickeniest legs in the Ireland team:

1Simon Zebo
2Donnacha Ryan
3Connor Murray
4Craig Gilroy

This is an excellent adjective and should be used whenever someone refers to a person who would struggle to stop a pig in an alley.

...come on dont tell me you dont make up words too.

Hate it when someone makes up a word or uses the wrong word and actually thinks they are saying it right or a saying a real word. My boss was arguing with me earlier and dismissed my agrument by saying it was a mute point. I couldnt help sniggering at her. Is that bad?

GunsGerms wrote:...come on dont tell me you dont make up words too.

Hate it when someone makes up a word or uses the wrong word and actually thinks they are saying it right or a saying a real word. My boss was arguing with me earlier and dismissed my agrument by saying it was a mute point. I couldnt help sniggering at her. Is that bad?

Her?!

...it also really annoys me how British people say the word sixth. In England in particular it is pronounced sickth. Can anyone tell me why?

Also why do some Americans pronounce asked as axed or in Ireland why cant we say tirty tree and a turd?

That sort of thing annoys me.

Chjw131 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:...come on dont tell me you dont make up words too.

Hate it when someone makes up a word or uses the wrong word and actually thinks they are saying it right or a saying a real word. My boss was arguing with me earlier and dismissed my agrument by saying it was a mute point. I couldnt help sniggering at her. Is that bad?

Her?!

Modern Ireland mate.

Good Lord what's it coming to. Are you working in a perfume factory or something?

Chickeniest is a great word, I agree with Chewie, but well done Guns for coming up with it in the first place.

BTW: your Boss meant to say 'moot' point,.
Confusingly 'moot' can have 2 slightly different meanings:

1. open to discussion or debate; debatable; doubtful: a moot point.
2. of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.

gregortree wrote:Chickeniest is a great word, I agree with Chewie, but well done Guns for coming up with it in the first place.

BTW: your Boss meant to say 'moot' point,.
Confusingly 'moot' can have 2 slightly different meanings:

1. open to discussion or debate; debatable; doubtful: a moot point.
2. of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.

Yes I know that, thats why I sniggered at her.

Thank you for praising my made up word.

My (then) 7 yr old came up with a great expression for that big tangle of keys on a key ring - keyweed.

This is digressing way too much.

Back to the Rugby - where is Sharples at now and who else is there on the horizon with the wings. Will May or Wade come good? And has Foden showed anything to suggest he could be selected?

Chjw131 wrote:Good Lord what's it coming to. Are you working in a perfume factory or something?

An American company. They have something called equal rights over there. Its a load of nonsense if you ask me.

lostinwales wrote:My (then) 7 yr old came up with a great expression for that big tangle of keys on a key ring - keyweed.

This is digressing way too much.

Back to the Rugby - where is Sharples at now and who else is there on the horizon with the wings. Will May or Wade come good? And has Foden showed anything to suggest he could be selected?

Keyweed, thats amazing, love it.

My 4 year old calls my crutch my crunch or my space rocket. Not sure why.
He calls the TV the funk.

lostinwales wrote:My (then) 7 yr old came up with a great expression for that big tangle of keys on a key ring - keyweed.

This is digressing way too much.

Back to the Rugby - where is Sharples at now and who else is there on the horizon with the wings. Will May or Wade come good? And has Foden showed anything to suggest he could be selected?

Sharples has become dejected since being dropped from the SA game I feel. Now he's back down to the Saxons with Monye and Strettle favoured ahead of him. Neither would be my choice.

Wade and May haven't had much opportunity in the Saxons to show much, both awful games in awful conditions. May has to be ahead at present but England see him as a full back for some reason. As if we haven't got enough of those!

A lot of people would like to see Foden in for Goode (albeit on the wing) and i'd tend to agree. He's the best option in the EPS there at present. My choice would be Abendanon on the wing but no one seems to listen to me for some reason. I can't imagine why.

GunsGerms wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:Good Lord what's it coming to. Are you working in a perfume factory or something?

An American company. They have something called equal rights over there. Its a load of nonsense if you ask me.

I know if only we lived in Victorian times it would all be so much better...

Calling your TV the Funk just seems plain weird. Are you training him on hallucinogenics or something? Back to rugby, where do you honestly see the game going on the w/end? Bogged down in a breakdown and choke-hold brawl or will we all be getting some rugby?

I see that Kearney has a bad back, Earls has a banged up shoulder, D'Arcy a corked thigh and BOD a bunch of stitches in his head.

I would imagine that our power runners including Tuilagi will be absolutely licking their lips.

Triangulation wrote:I see that Kearney has a bad back, Earls has a banged up shoulder, D'Arcy a corked thigh and BOD a bunch of stitches in his head.

I would imagine that our power runners including Tuilagi will be absolutely licking their lips.

Put Morgan in some callipers and send him after them.

It would be great to see an in form Foden back in there. His pace and running from deep certainly gives the opposition something to think about. The key is 'in form' though. Just have to hope hes looking good in training.

One of the features of the Scot. match was the number of times Brown got the ball in no space at all. Its hard to look good when you get hammered every time but his ball retention was good and his meters run did add up. I think if Manu does play at least the guys outside will have more space to work with (if they get the ball that is...)

Chjw131 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:Good Lord what's it coming to. Are you working in a perfume factory or something?

An American company. They have something called equal rights over there. Its a load of nonsense if you ask me.

I know if only we lived in Victorian times it would all be so much better...

Calling your TV the Funk just seems plain weird. Are you training him on hallucinogenics or something? Back to rugby, where do you honestly see the game going on the w/end? Bogged down in a breakdown and choke-hold brawl or will we all be getting some rugby?

Very hard to tell. I dont think it will be that free flowing at all. I expect both teams to be a little nervy and while neither team will be calling it a granslam decider both teams will probably see it as one of if not their toughest match therefore it might have that turgid cup final feel to it.

I expect England will keep it a little tighter than they were v Scotland. I expect to see some big England rolling mauls and penalty fishing throughout mixed in with more direct lines from the England backs.

It is a little tougher to know what the expect from Ireland who are very Jeckyl and Hyde under Kidney. I expect Irelands game plan to be to play a very fast tempo game and try to run the England fatties around the park a bit like the Ireland SA Nov international. Very hard to know if we will get enough posession though.

Could someone get a message to Tuilagi for me?

Dear Sir,
Your dance to the Gods to ensure D'Arcy misses out and 'turnstile' Earls replaces him has made them angry. It's snowing at my house and my driveway is too slippy for me to go out and get a packet of Pickled Onion Monster Munch.

Regards,
H&H

You'll notice I didn't put best regards because he doesn't deserve them.

On another note I also like Flaming Hot. The beef? Not so much. To please to smutty minded amongst you my wife loves the beef.

That is all.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Could someone get a message to Tuilagi for me?

Dear Sir,
Your dance to the Gods to ensure D'Arcy misses out and 'turnstile' Earls replaces him has made them angry. It's snowing at my house and my driveway is too slippy for me to go out and get a packet of Pickled Onion Monster Munch.

Regards,
H&H

You'll notice I didn't put best regards because he doesn't deserve them.

Is it brick or tarmac?

GunsGerms wrote:

lostinwales wrote:to be honest gut size shouldnt be an issue if they are hitting their performance targets. Morgan put in a great shift on Saturday and his general work rate is going up. I dont think he's ever going to be one of those 8's who do a lot a lot of dirty work (e.g. Heaslip) but it looks like his carrying can more than make up for that

Yeah for sure, though the fitter you are generally the better you will be. Cian Healy for example is a prop, yet he barely has a pick of fat on him. He actually probably has a six pack, he did when he started out anyway. Is it any coincidence he is quite possibly the best player in his position in the world now?

Going by that concept then Haskell should be the best flanker in the world and PDJ (he has a six pack) should be the best prop in the world.

There's still a place in rugby for the fatties, they just have to be smart with it and try to target the skinny boys.

not sure if anyone has said this but I just worry if tuilagi may not be 100% or could risk further injury.
If this is the case I think it may be more beneficial bringing him on after 50 minutes as an impact player as his impact imo would be greater than 36's.

If he is ok however i would deffo start him, for me hes one of the first names on the team sheet when fit.

Also I would put brown at full back, I am still a bit uneasy about goode 2bh, he doesn't fill me with confidence and may be a bit lightweight (hogg smashed him).
Ideally i want wade on the wing but i guess having a strettle (as he seems the next in line) is fine as an out and out winger. Apart from that im bare happy

I think that Goode will have better days - he was very good vs NZ for instance - but maybe hes not fully over the injury/back to form. That plus 36 doing a lot of the jobs he usually does means that it really wasnt the game for him.

Chjw131 wrote:
Wade and May haven't had much opportunity in the Saxons to show much, both awful games in awful conditions. May has to be ahead at present but England see him as a full back for some reason. As if we haven't got enough of those!

A lot of people would like to see Foden in for Goode (albeit on the wing) and i'd tend to agree. He's the best option in the EPS there at present. My choice would be Abendanon on the wing but no one seems to listen to me for some reason. I can't imagine why.

England see May as a wing, it's Daly they see as a fullback. Foden needs some form before he should come in. I'd like to see Abendanon on the left wing or, if 36 plays, even at fullback but I doubt he'll have much of an international career now.

A good read this one.


Lancaster may well have to second guess Kidney's team, as DK has aleady said that he won't announce it until Friday: knowing that England traditionally announce their team on a Thursday before a Saturday test.

Ireland's reported injuries notwithstanding, this is a sensible move by Kidney. Despite the Irish sceptics of DK's tenure, he's a canny operator.

Lancaster just needs to pick the team he feels will win, no matter what team Kidney selects.

Barritt stays in, and Tuilagi or Twelvetrees is a judgement call. Just because a player has a number on his back, you don't necessarily need to line him up there in defence

With Morgan out, England should start as they finished against Scotland in the back row.

6 Haskell, 7 Robshaw, 8 Wood.

I think Wood at 8 is a bad idea, Over the years we have seen numerous eights struggle to guard and shift the ball at the back of the scrum with thier feet , this is a skill that comes with years of experience, Haskell used to be poor at it but he has played 8 enough that he can do a decent enough job. I think for all Woods skills he would be found wanting in the specific skills of an 8, and two short cameos against all blacks ande scotland aren't enough time for a starting England jersey; if we play both haskell and wood then haskell is the more experienced 8. Personally i think this is the best way forward with Vunipola to come off the bench for haskell at 50 minutes.

I must admit, I was surprised to see Wood playing 8 and Hask on the flank after Morgan went off!
Haskell just seems more the logical choice for no.8.

Two things I hope SL works on: his habit of playing players out of position, and his indifference to pace. I’ll forgive him his centre pair for Scotland because his options were limited. Manu is an OC and the IC slot is now a fight between 12T and Barritt. MJ seemed to be grooming Haskell for #8 and tho’ he struggled a bit at the base of the scrum he was improving (Vunipola is currently the other option). Wood is a quality B/S. Brown is an excellent FB (but a poor test winger) and should be fighting it out with Goode. Now all SL needs to do is find a couple of (real) wingers.

Its ridiculous to suggest that Ashton isnt a real winger.

Brown I have an issue with in terms of positioning and instinct, but he ran the ball a ridiculous distance and beat defenders. Will he become Lancasters Cueto?
Goode had his worst game for England, but its not like it was in Balshaw or Monye territory.
If those two dont show more thats certainly the area of balance to look at , especially if they do stick by 36 at 12.

It does seem odd to be talking about fundamental changes to the backs division when theyve just come off the back of two big wins which for the first time since pre world cup werent reliant on the pack (or chargedowns) for scoring.

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:
Lancaster may well have to second guess Kidney's team, as DK has aleady said that he won't announce it until Friday: knowing that England traditionally announce their team on a Thursday before a Saturday test.

Ireland's reported injuries notwithstanding, this is a sensible move by Kidney. Despite the Irish sceptics of DK's tenure, he's a canny operator.

Canny operator yer bollix it'll be the same side that played against Wales. If poor old d'arcy can't walk unaided with his knee strapped then Earls will come into the centre and McFadden to the bench.

Nothing else to see here .....

Earls is a doubt too.

Reading Catts comments it sounds like Barritt will start, recognising that Englands backs have been a bit shaky defensively and not wanting to weaken them further. (Rather than saying hmm maybe if its his job to lead them and they havent been doing it right we should hold him responsible and find a new leader)
Its then a straight shoot between going as was and lacking pace out wide or switching back to"option 1" and having no passing game.

PSW most of the defensive errors have come from the back three to be honest in both the AIs and the Scotland game. Can hardly blame Brad Barritt for that.

Shame Delon Armitage is such a plonker as when on form he is an awesome international full back/ winger and would rate him above Goode. Could have had Delon on the wing and Brown at fullback, Delon also has genuine pace....but the attitude of a yob.

Well back in the real world until Foden gets some form we cant change the back three, I would prefer brown over strette and on the bench would also prefer an exciting winger like wade/may/sharples/biggs over a solid and unspectactular strettle.

I noticed Wood playing at 8 too, and thought it was quite odd to be honest, but he handled it well. I just assumed Haskell would have covered 8, but the dynamic of the backrow still looked great.

I'd probably change Barritt for Tuilagi, and keep him on the bench. If the defence seems too frail, I'd bring him on for 36.

Mike Brown needs a full run out at full back. He is such a dangerous runner, and I think we need to play him in his natural postion to fully accomodate this. Goode to me looked a little off the pace.

Foden or Monye on the wing for me, but since neither have been retained, this isn't an option. When Strettle came on. I actually thought he looked lazyt and disinterested to be honest. Shame, because I really like him. He also looked much slower than he used to while chasing back the ball for Hogg's try. Pretty sure Wood out ran him.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Its ridiculous to suggest that Ashton isnt a real winger.

Brown I have an issue with in terms of positioning and instinct, but he ran the ball a ridiculous distance and beat defenders. Will he become Lancasters Cueto?
Goode had his worst game for England, but its not like it was in Balshaw or Monye territory.
If those two dont show more thats certainly the area of balance to look at , especially if they do stick by 36 at 12.

It does seem odd to be talking about fundamental changes to the backs division when theyve just come off the back of two big wins which for the first time since pre world cup werent reliant on the pack (or chargedowns) for scoring.

It certainly would be, had anyone done that. Ideally we need cover for every position. Having the luxury of choosing 2 from 3 wingers would be nice (and Splash is a shoo-in). Brown isn't a top quality winger, he's a FB.

While I appreciate he is a good player I hope Ashton doesnt score a try. I am not one to boo a try scorer but if he slashes down he will get boo'd.

I played rugby for a rugby school in Ireland with a great rugby tradition. Our coaches always preached their mantra that excessive celebrating tries only motivated opposition, never help motivate your opposition they will already be motivated enough to hammer you.

GunsGerms wrote:While I appreciate he is a good player I hope Ashton doesnt score a try. I am not one to boo a try scorer but if he slashes down he will get boo'd.

I played rugby for a rugby school in Ireland with a great rugby tradition. Our coaches always preached their mantra that excessive celebrating tries only motivated opposition, never help motivate your opposition they will already be motivated enough to hammer you.

Have England lost a match in which Ashton 'splashed'?

Jimpy wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:While I appreciate he is a good player I hope Ashton doesnt score a try. I am not one to boo a try scorer but if he slashes down he will get boo'd.

I played rugby for a rugby school in Ireland with a great rugby tradition. Our coaches always preached their mantra that excessive celebrating tries only motivated opposition, never help motivate your opposition they will already be motivated enough to hammer you.

Have England lost a match in which Ashton 'splashed'?

Is that a rethorical questions? I dont know, you tell me. If they havent they thats just another reason why I dont want him to score.

Has Ashton ever scored against Ireland? I dont think he has has he?

Yeah, Sunday

Heres some tasty reminders for England fans of past Ireland v England games:

1994 - Simon Geoghegan - oh this guy loved playing England.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc2VZb1Fm2g

2006 - hand of Horgan
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DINPoJWOXw4

2007 - Croke Park
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS4AfMflkOk

2010 - Tommy Bowe twickers
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDWpLJby4jo

2011 - Aviva 2011 - Grandslam?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc3CXNNUwrI

2011 - Drico and POC grandslam fail
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYmmzI36TJA

Oh the memories.

Jimpy wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:While I appreciate he is a good player I hope Ashton doesnt score a try. I am not one to boo a try scorer but if he slashes down he will get boo'd.

I played rugby for a rugby school in Ireland with a great rugby tradition. Our coaches always preached their mantra that excessive celebrating tries only motivated opposition, never help motivate your opposition they will already be motivated enough to hammer you.

Have England lost a match in which Ashton 'splashed'?

I'd rather England won without an Ashton splash, than we won in spite of one. The situation is that serious. No splashing down at the Aviva please.

It's right up there with making the president walk on the grass and eating horsemeat as a social taboo.

Why none of last year BunsPerms?

AlastairW wrote:Why none of last year BunsPerms?

I cant remember what happened last year.

Would you rather he ran up to the crowd and did a Gazza style piping salute?

In the grand scheme of things it takes for and English chap to seriously offend the Irish nation im sure celebrating a try with a belly flop shouldnt really be at the top of the list.

GunsGerms wrote:

AlastairW wrote:Why none of last year BunsPerms?

I cant remember what happened last year.

Damned memory failures We Rugby fans do tend to suffer from them across the board.

I think J May will eventually claim the left wing but, having just returned from injury, he is not quite at the top of his game.

Will slowly ease Sinbad out of his left wing spot at Glaws and make it his own.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Would you rather he ran up to the crowd and did a Gazza style piping salute?

In the grand scheme of things it takes for and English chap to seriously offend the Irish nation im sure celebrating a try with a belly flop shouldnt really be at the top of the list.

I would love if Ashton celebrated like Gazza. That would be worth at least two tries for Ireland and you might even see an on pitch brawl which is always good.

What if it's the 80th minute, last phase of play? Swallow dive and pipe playing to win the game.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Would you rather he ran up to the crowd and did a Gazza style piping salute?

Well actually ....yes.... it would keep Bestie and Henry happy too.... ....