From the pages of the ring magazine: Boxing's great enigma; Floyd - where did it go wrong?

First topic message reminder :

This will be an attempt to discuss a recent article on Floyd Mayweather from the Ring magazine. Please do not try to make this the usual claptrap arguments, nor drag this onto any of the usual issues. Nor is this about a certain boxer from the Philippines - this is JUST about Floyd's career and where it went right - and where it went wrong.

Off topic posts and WUMery will therefore be removed. I believe that the board is capable of discussing the issues around the best/second best boxer in the world today, without wummery or infighting. Prove me right.

The ring magazine in their recent online issue discussed Floyd's career - 10 points it "went wrong", 5 points where it "went right".

First the bad:
10. He was given too much too soon. Came out of the Olympics as a bronze medallist and was hot property, but still wanted more - remember "slave contract?"
9. The Mayweather family. I don't think its unfair to question their influences over baby-Floyd as role models. Would he have done better without them?
8. Brittle hands. Has made some of his fights stinkers - yes he fights like a genius; but he would merely potshot and occasionally slap for 12 rounds.
7. Defensively minded. He found something he does very very well. So he started doing nothing else. And however impressive it is, it looks rubbish.
6. Perfectionism. Foreman once said "Boxing is like jazz. The better it is, the harder it is to appreciate". Or something like that. Mayweather epitomises this.
5. Played it safe on the biggest night of his life. ODLH SD 12. Enough said. Could have done SO much more for the appeal of the sport with a TKO.
4. Control freak. For example - Drug testing on Manny after never asking for it for one of his previous 39 fights. It might have happened by now otherwise...
3. He Retired. Retirement made Manny the "man". Good work, Floyd.
2. He's immature. For example the racist and homophobic ustream rants. Manny Steward declared it - Floyd is a "big kid".
1. Personal life overshadows boxing. Supporters say it doesn't matter - but when is ex is on a trolley because of him - it doesn't do much for the sport's image

Then the good:
5. He's caught the "reality TV" audience. His 24/7s are a damn site more interesting than anyone else's.
4. He captured the African-American audience. He gives a large market a continued interest in the sport.
3. Maybe boxing fans aren't that fickle. In spite of a "dull style" - he's still manages to get millions to tune in to watch his cold boxing clinics.
2. He's undefeated. OK - so was Ottke, but he didn't beat the class Floyd beat - and his 41-0 means a lot to him and his fans
1. He dominates. He's economical and he doesn't make mistakes. He owns the ring when he's in it like few others in the sport today.

Before people say about how his image helps his "popularity" - bear in mind that he is currently the 360th most popular celeb on twitter. Charlie Sheen gained more followers in a couple of hours than Floyd has period.

He is popular - but not as popular as he could have been; and when he retires, I think its fair to say that his career won't have hit the heights it could have done.

Where's next for Floyd? The Ring are trashing him; sports illustrated aren't his biggest fans. He hasn't fought in a year and he's got legal issues. Will the Floyd era end with a whimper?

Full article: http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/166865-from-the-pages-of-the-ring-magazine-

Steven_89 wrote:because i think he should fight Martinez, Martinez can make LMW, Mayweather has held a world title at that weight, isnt Pacquiao fighting next week? when does Mayweather fight again? im puzzled.

@prettyboykev
I honestly dont think he would see Manny's punches mate, he looked a bag of nerves against Hatton early and struggled with Hatton's speed in the first 4 rounds he was complaining about it in the corner, (out of the comfort zone), Manny stops him late in my opinion, if they fought it would be much, much more exciting than anything in the history of the sport imo

Why should he fight Martinez? Pac wouldn't he vacated his title at LMW and stepped back down to WW.
TBH mate as much as I would like to see this fight I'm not sure it would be the cracker everyone thinks Mayweather is never in those kinds of fights and will never be dragged into one.
Hatton troubled Mayweather in the first four rounds at times but a fight lasts 12 and Hatton looked well out of his depths most of that fight.

Steven_89 wrote:

Why engage in a brawl when you can control the pace of the fight and make your opponent fight your fight? Can Pacquiao fight how Mayweather fights? When you say silly things like that you sound like you have your tongue buried in Pacquiao's crack, seriously.
.........
You sound like your on Mayweather's team as well, Coxy with comments like that

OK, first thing first; it's 'you're', not 'your'. Secondly, can you not read the name at the top of the post?

prettyboykev wrote:Manny isn't a defencive fighter and brushing your shoulder in an empty ring proves nothing. Floyd is easily top 10 defencive fighters of all time. The guy is a tool outside the ring but a master at what he does inside it. Go and watch the Judah fight while your on youtube and you will see what I mean about him being adaptable.

I've seen the Judah fight, and how the ref robbed Judah of a knockdown. And how Mayweather should have been DQ.

At the adjustment that Floyd made was not his but his Uncle Roger telling him that he can't wait on Judah to throw because he was too fast and had to take the fight to him and throw the lead straight right.

Still it was not a change in style, same guard, same defence, same conservative approach and the pot shot.

BALTIMORA wrote:

Steven_89 wrote:

Why engage in a brawl when you can control the pace of the fight and make your opponent fight your fight? Can Pacquiao fight how Mayweather fights? When you say silly things like that you sound like you have your tongue buried in Pacquiao's crack, seriously.
.........
You sound like your on Mayweather's team as well, Coxy with comments like that

OK, first thing first; it's 'you're', not 'your'. Secondly, can you not read the name at the top of the post?

Easy mistake to make

@Baltimora - I have edited your comment - but that was too far. You have beeen warned before that such behaviour is unacceptable - and non-complicance will result in sanctions.
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Furthermore - comments about Manny-Mayweather will be deleted.

This debate is about where Floyd's career went wrong. NOT about Manny-Mayweather. The debate exists - debate it elsewhere.

oxring wrote:@Baltimora - I have edited your comment - but that was too far. You have beeen warned before that such behaviour is unacceptable - and non-complicance will result in sanctions.
--------------
Furthermore - comments about Manny-Mayweather will be deleted.

This debate is about where Floyd's career went wrong. NOT about Manny-Mayweather. The debate exists - debate it elsewhere.

Actually Oxring the "mayweather pacquiao debate" thread was permanently locked a while ago. If there's no specific place to debate it then it will infiltrate other threads about the two fighters instead of going undebated.

Why not have a look and see who was responsible for bringing the Filipino into this thread?

BALTIMORA wrote:Why not have a look and see who was responsible for bringing the Filipino into this thread?

The point being to dispel the myth of Floyd being able to fight all styles and being able to adapt to everything, which is not the case.

I'm not sure it went wrong tbh. The guy is a 5 weight world champion and regarded as top 2 of his generation by most. He has also made a barrell load of cash which considering it's a job is just as important.
If it has went wrong it's outside of the ring his legal trouble has been well documented and seems to be the reason for his lay off this time.

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Why not have a look and see who was responsible for bringing the Filipino into this thread?

The point being to dispel the myth of Floyd being able to fight all styles and being able to adapt to everything, which is not the case.

I politely beg to differ.

prettyboykev wrote:I'm not sure it went wrong tbh. The guy is a 5 weight world champion and regarded as top 2 of his generation by most. He has also made a barrell load of cash which considering it's a job is just as important.
If it has went wrong it's outside of the ring his legal trouble has been well documented and seems to be the reason for his lay off this time.

I would say getting booed at boxing match and called a coward on a mainstream sports network by a sport journalist, racist rants on the web, and now facing charges that could see him facing 34 years in jail, could be seen as going wrong.

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Why not have a look and see who was responsible for bringing the Filipino into this thread?

The point being to dispel the myth of Floyd being able to fight all styles and being able to adapt to everything, which is not the case.

I politely beg to differ.

Are you seriously telling me that you believe Floyd can fight all styles and adapt to any style that he may face?

All outside of the ring. Might be a slight on his character but shouldn't be on his standing in the history of the sport.

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Why not have a look and see who was responsible for bringing the Filipino into this thread?

The point being to dispel the myth of Floyd being able to fight all styles and being able to adapt to everything, which is not the case.

I politely beg to differ.

Are you seriously telling me that you believe Floyd can fight all styles and adapt to any style that he may face?

He has a zero, so that answers that question. He has adapted to everything thrown at him and prevailed.

prettyboykev wrote:All outside of the ring. Might be a slight on his character but shouldn't be on his standing in the history of the sport.

It has gone wrong for him, and not taking the Pacquiao fight has made people look more closely at and question why he never fought Margarito and Cotto.

So his Legacy has suffer as has his public standing in boxing

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Why not have a look and see who was responsible for bringing the Filipino into this thread?

The point being to dispel the myth of Floyd being able to fight all styles and being able to adapt to everything, which is not the case.

I politely beg to differ.

Are you seriously telling me that you believe Floyd can fight all styles and adapt to any style that he may face?

He has a zero, so that answers that question. He has adapted to everything thrown at him and prevailed.

I guess Ottke, Calzaghe and Marciano fall into that category as well as many others.

Comparing Floyd to Ottke, Calzaghe and Marciano is ridiculous.

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Why not have a look and see who was responsible for bringing the Filipino into this thread?

The point being to dispel the myth of Floyd being able to fight all styles and being able to adapt to everything, which is not the case.

I politely beg to differ.

Are you seriously telling me that you believe Floyd can fight all styles and adapt to any style that he may face?

He has a zero, so that answers that question. He has adapted to everything thrown at him and prevailed.

I guess Ottke, Calzaghe and Marciano fall into that category as well as many others.

I'll discount Otke as judges assisted wins do not count regardless of what the records say.

But on the whole yes. They fought all styles available and infront of them and prevailed. Regardless of what I think if the useless Rocky, he passed every test given to him. SLicksters got beat, brawlers got beat, swarmers got beat, plodders (plenty of them then) got walloped.

End of.

Floyd has the zero. An ATG. No zero-not invincible.

Just to add that if this thread starts going down the same usual route, I will remove posts without hesitation.

You have been warned.

prettyboykev wrote:Comparing Floyd to Ottke, Calzaghe and Marciano is ridiculous.

Not as ridiculous as saying Floyd can fight all styles and adapt to any style because of his 0

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Comparing Floyd to Ottke, Calzaghe and Marciano is ridiculous.

Not as ridiculous as saying Floyd can fight all styles and adapt to any style because of his 0

Why? Has he or has he not adapted to all styles thrown at him?

Never used his zero and never said he can fight all styles. I remember saying he couldn't stand and trade big blows because of his hands. So I never made a ridiculous comment. I'll leave that to you.
He can adapt his style to accomodate for things his opponents do well. His zero shows that but go and watch his fights and you will see what I mean. You clearly don't like his style which is fine. Personally I'm a big fan of defencive fighters and imo Floyd is top 5 of that category. Where would you rate him in terms of defencive fighters?

Az-you're right, thus far Mayweather has overcome all the challenges presented to him by opponents.

prettyboykev wrote:Never used his zero and never said he can fight all styles. I remember saying he couldn't stand and trade big blows because of his hands. So I never made a ridiculous comment. I'll leave that to you.
He can adapt his style to accomodate for things his opponents do well. His zero shows that but go and watch his fights and you will see what I mean. You clearly don't like his style which is fine. Personally I'm a big fan of defencive fighters and imo Floyd is top 5 of that category. Where would you rate him in terms of defencive fighters?

personally speaking I detest his style. I am not a fan of defensive fighters. I didn't like Pernell and Winky (I'd like to put an 'a' instead of the 'i'). But I appreciate their amazing skill. I like's Floyd brash attitude as it sells and keeps boxing in the headlines. All these humble fighters bore me.

prettyboykev wrote:Never used his zero and never said he can fight all styles. I remember saying he couldn't stand and trade big blows because of his hands. So I never made a ridiculous comment. I'll leave that to you.
He can adapt his style to accomodate for things his opponents do well. His zero shows that but go and watch his fights and you will see what I mean. You clearly don't like his style which is fine. Personally I'm a big fan of defencive fighters and imo Floyd is top 5 of that category. Where would you rate him in terms of defencive fighters?

Top five, not in any order.

Locche
Pep
Whitaker
Benitez
Toney

D4 I've just started a thread for that put it on their. Will be interesting to see how many leave out Floyd.

azania wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Never used his zero and never said he can fight all styles. I remember saying he couldn't stand and trade big blows because of his hands. So I never made a ridiculous comment. I'll leave that to you.
He can adapt his style to accomodate for things his opponents do well. His zero shows that but go and watch his fights and you will see what I mean. You clearly don't like his style which is fine. Personally I'm a big fan of defencive fighters and imo Floyd is top 5 of that category. Where would you rate him in terms of defencive fighters?

personally speaking I detest his style. I am not a fan of defensive fighters. I didn't like Pernell and Winky (I'd like to put an 'a' instead of the 'i'). But I appreciate their amazing skill. I like's Floyd brash attitude as it sells and keeps boxing in the headlines. All these humble fighters bore me.

That's the thing though Az whether you're watching because you hate him and want to see him KOd or like me are a fan and want him to win as long as you are buying PPVs he doesn't care.

Good point. He plays the villan brilliantly and people will pay him to see him get beat. He knows it and as long as they pay for it he doesn't mind. he wins anways and has total confidence in his remarkably ability. Loathe his style but that check hook was a joy to watch.

Where did it go wrong for him? He's a child in a man's body.

azania wrote:Good point. He plays the villan brilliantly and people will pay him to see him get beat. He knows it and as long as they pay for it he doesn't mind. he wins anways and has total confidence in his remarkably ability. Loathe his style but that check hook was a joy to watch.

Where did it go wrong for him? He's a child in a man's body.

Like I said Az did it all go wrong though? He has a record of 41-0. He is a 5 weight world champion, won a bronze medal at the olympics in 96 and is regarded as top 2 of his generation. Amongst fans of defencive fighters like myself he is usually rated top 5 and top 10 at worst of best defencive fighters of all time. He has earned a barrell load of cash and considering this is his job thats very important.
If it has went wrong it's over the last year and is outside the ring. Although considering the career he has had the phrase 'where did it go wrong' just seems out of place.

OK, first thing first; it's 'you're', not 'your'. Secondly, can you not read the name at the top of the post?
...............
First things first, it's a forum board not school. Your the same person COXYBALTIMORA with loooooooooooooodsa time on your hands

Steven_89 wrote:OK, first thing first; it's 'you're', not 'your'. Secondly, can you not read the name at the top of the post?
...............
First things first, it's a forum board not school. Your the same person COXYBALTIMORA with loooooooooooooodsa time on your hands

coxy and BALTI are most definitely not the same person, Steven.

HumanWindmill wrote:

Steven_89 wrote:OK, first thing first; it's 'you're', not 'your'. Secondly, can you not read the name at the top of the post?
...............
First things first, it's a forum board not school. Your the same person COXYBALTIMORA with loooooooooooooodsa time on your hands

coxy and BALTI are most definitely not the same person, Steven.

Thank you Windy

Remember this nuisance from the old 606. And we're not the same person as Windy has pointed out - it would take a special someone to think that to be honest. Hint hint.

Bearing in mind the admins could quite easily run a search from our email addresses on something like facebook (to find us) i'd consider withdrawing your accusation.

And apologies for being a proper boxing fan who works infront of computers 24/7 for taking an avid interest in discussing all that's great and going on in our sport.

coxy0001 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Steven_89 wrote:OK, first thing first; it's 'you're', not 'your'. Secondly, can you not read the name at the top of the post?
...............
First things first, it's a forum board not school. Your the same person COXYBALTIMORA with loooooooooooooodsa time on your hands

coxy and BALTI are most definitely not the same person, Steven.

Thank you Windy

Remember this nuisance from the old 606. And we're not the same person as Windy has pointed out - it would take a special someone to think that to be honest. Hint hint.

Bearing in mind the admins could quite easily run a search from our email addresses on something like facebook (to find us) i'd consider withdrawing your accusation.

And apologies for being a proper boxing fan who works infront of computers 24/7 for taking an avid interest in discussing all that's great and going on in our sport.

Indeed Coxy, I reckon the mods and admins will have their hands full with ol' Steven aka Southpaw_20. Was banned temporarily from here after about three posts for calling an admin a 'pri(k' and then scuttles back to BBC 606 asking why he was suspended and telling everyone that v2 is a joke which nobody should bother with...Before returning as soon as his suspension had expired. Poor lad just seems to have trouble settling in no matter where he is!

What is this topic about again? I'm sure it is not about posters of 606v2.

As I have said the avoidance of the Pacquiao fight has put a magnifined glass over Floyd's career to the wider boxing world, and thus his legacy has suffered.

Even the Diego Corrales win, which many consider is Floyd's best has been brought into question.

With Corrales being severely weight drained and facing a prison sentence before the Floyd fight.

D4thincarnation wrote:What is this topic about again? I'm sure it is not about posters of 606v2.

D4 moaning about an article being dragged off topic? Delicious irony once again. And no, D4, there are absolutely no question marks hanging over Mayweather's win over Corrales. As your constant drivel over the last few months has reminded us, Mayweather's legal troubles matter little and are simply a smoke screen for him not wanting to fight Pacquiao. So if it's not an excuse or hinderance to Mayweather, then it wasn't to Corrales either. Although I'm sure you'll provide yet more daft reasoning as to why it's one rule for everyone else and another one for Floyd.

Steven_89 wrote:OK, first thing first; it's 'you're', not 'your'. Secondly, can you not read the name at the top of the post?
...............
First things first, it's a forum board not school. Your the same person COXYBALTIMORA with loooooooooooooodsa time on your hands

If you like, sweetheart.

D4thincarnation wrote:What is this topic about again? I'm sure it is not about posters of 606v2.

As I have said the avoidance of the Pacquiao fight has put a magnifined glass over Floyd's career to the wider boxing world, and thus his legacy has suffered.

Even the Diego Corrales win, which many consider is Floyd's best has been brought into question.

With Corrales being severely weight drained and facing a prison sentence before the Floyd fight.

Absolute pap.

88Chris05 wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:What is this topic about again? I'm sure it is not about posters of 606v2.

D4 moaning about an article being dragged off topic? Delicious irony once again. And no, D4, there are absolutely no question marks hanging over Mayweather's win over Corrales. As your constant drivel over the last few months has reminded us, Mayweather's legal troubles matter little and are simply a smoke screen for him not wanting to fight Pacquiao. So if it's not an excuse or hinderance to Mayweather, then it wasn't to Corrales either. Although I'm sure you'll provide yet more daft reasoning as to why it's one rule for everyone else and another one for Floyd.

Corrales was severely, weight drained, it was his last fight at 130lbs had problems with his management, his personal life and the fight was rushed ahead.

He knew he would be in prison also.

But he put himself through hell to make weight and suffered cramps in the Mayweather fight from the 3rd round on because of it.

Now this might have been buried before but because of the Pacquiao fight not happening, people have looked more closely at his record and have found bigger and bigger holes.

D4thincarnation wrote:
people have looked more closely at his record and have found bigger and bigger holes.

It's surprising the number of places one can find big holes, these days.

Absolute garbage, nobody apart from you has ever brought into question the Corrales win, plain and simple, end of argument

The Mighty Atom wrote:Absolute garbage, nobody apart from you has ever brought into question the Corrales win, plain and simple, end of argument

It is not garbage though.

Corrales did struggle with the weight, he was facing prison, the fight was rushed ahead, he did fall out with his management, it was his last fight at 130lbs, and he did suffer with cramp during the fight because he was severaly weight drained then got bloated up by the water he took in to rehydrate.

If we're going to those lengths to discredit wins nowadays then the Pacquiao list will be just as fun, you do like to dig yourself into a hole, the name Morales alone should make you think twice about going down this route

But the point being, others and myself might not have know this about Corrales or wonder why the Cotto, Margarito and Williams fights never happened if not because of the Pacquiao fall out.

Like I said if Pacquiao career stays at lightweight and the Floyd fight is never on the cards then Floyd comes back, beats the like of Berto and takes some other easy titles and not many will question his legacy.

But unfortunate for Floyd, Pacquiao did move up and now most question his legacy and the fight he did have and didn't have.

The Mighty Atom wrote:If we're going to those lengths to discredit wins nowadays then the Pacquiao list will be just as fun, you do like to dig yourself into a hole, the name Morales alone should make you think twice about going down this route

This thread is not about Pacquiao, it is about Floyd's fall from grace and the reasons behind it.

D4thincarnation wrote:But the point being, others and myself might not have know this about Corrales or wonder why the Cotto, Margarito and Williams fights never happened if not because of the Pacquiao fall out.

Like I said if Pacquiao career stays at lightweight and the Floyd fight is never on the cards then Floyd comes back, beats the like of Berto and takes some other easy titles and not many will question his legacy.

But unfortunate for Floyd, Pacquiao did move up and now most question his legacy and the fight he did have and didn't have.

Don't even bother, were it not for Mayweather asking for drug testing Pacquiao may not be a suspected drugs cheat so works each and every way

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:If we're going to those lengths to discredit wins nowadays then the Pacquiao list will be just as fun, you do like to dig yourself into a hole, the name Morales alone should make you think twice about going down this route

This thread is not about Pacquiao, it is about Floyd's fall from grace and the reasons behind it.

Well you've derailed enough threads now so have no right to accuse others of doing the same

I can see where D4 is coming from on this, since the two are intrinsically linked.

For example, if this situation were reversed there would probably be some saying that Manny's downfall was accelerated by his fighting Floyd's leftovers, etc. There's more to it all, of course, but Manny might be a contributory factor.

Windy I don't think it has anything to do with Pac really. If Floyd has fell from grace (although I doubt it because he has never been a loved fighter) it is because of his behaviour outside of the ring and should therefore not take anything away from his in ring achievements which are very impressive.

D4thincarnation wrote:Corrales did struggle with the weight, he was facing prison, the fight was rushed ahead, he did fall out with his management, it was his last fight at 130lbs, and he did suffer with cramp during the fight because he was severaly weight drained then got bloated up by the water he took in to rehydrate.

Bleedin' Christ D4, any other ailments which Corrales was facing that you need to get off your chest? Was he forced to fight wearing the wrong pair of under pants, which meant he couldn't move as freely and easily, and which had nasty little bits of fabric which gave him a rash, because his local laundrette had over-starched his favourite, lucky pair?

It's common knowledge that Mayweather was struggling to make 130 lb by 2001, too. And like Corrales, he also had personal family problems outside the ring. If anything then, the Corrales win was a wonderful one. How great a performance for Mayweather to overcome such difficulties and totally blitz a 33-0 beast of a Super-Featherweight who was in the form of his life, eh?

HumanWindmill wrote:I can see where D4 is coming from on this, since the two are intrinsically linked.

For example, if this situation were reversed there would probably be some saying that Manny's downfall was accelerated by his fighting Floyd's leftovers, etc. There's more to it all, of course, but Manny might be a contributory factor.

Yes that would be right if Floyd said he was willing to fight Pacquiao without any tests and Manny refused then Pacquiao Legacy would take a hit.