From the pages of the ring magazine: Boxing's great enigma; Floyd - where did it go wrong?

First topic message reminder :

This will be an attempt to discuss a recent article on Floyd Mayweather from the Ring magazine. Please do not try to make this the usual claptrap arguments, nor drag this onto any of the usual issues. Nor is this about a certain boxer from the Philippines - this is JUST about Floyd's career and where it went right - and where it went wrong.

Off topic posts and WUMery will therefore be removed. I believe that the board is capable of discussing the issues around the best/second best boxer in the world today, without wummery or infighting. Prove me right.

The ring magazine in their recent online issue discussed Floyd's career - 10 points it "went wrong", 5 points where it "went right".

First the bad:
10. He was given too much too soon. Came out of the Olympics as a bronze medallist and was hot property, but still wanted more - remember "slave contract?"
9. The Mayweather family. I don't think its unfair to question their influences over baby-Floyd as role models. Would he have done better without them?
8. Brittle hands. Has made some of his fights stinkers - yes he fights like a genius; but he would merely potshot and occasionally slap for 12 rounds.
7. Defensively minded. He found something he does very very well. So he started doing nothing else. And however impressive it is, it looks rubbish.
6. Perfectionism. Foreman once said "Boxing is like jazz. The better it is, the harder it is to appreciate". Or something like that. Mayweather epitomises this.
5. Played it safe on the biggest night of his life. ODLH SD 12. Enough said. Could have done SO much more for the appeal of the sport with a TKO.
4. Control freak. For example - Drug testing on Manny after never asking for it for one of his previous 39 fights. It might have happened by now otherwise...
3. He Retired. Retirement made Manny the "man". Good work, Floyd.
2. He's immature. For example the racist and homophobic ustream rants. Manny Steward declared it - Floyd is a "big kid".
1. Personal life overshadows boxing. Supporters say it doesn't matter - but when is ex is on a trolley because of him - it doesn't do much for the sport's image

Then the good:
5. He's caught the "reality TV" audience. His 24/7s are a damn site more interesting than anyone else's.
4. He captured the African-American audience. He gives a large market a continued interest in the sport.
3. Maybe boxing fans aren't that fickle. In spite of a "dull style" - he's still manages to get millions to tune in to watch his cold boxing clinics.
2. He's undefeated. OK - so was Ottke, but he didn't beat the class Floyd beat - and his 41-0 means a lot to him and his fans
1. He dominates. He's economical and he doesn't make mistakes. He owns the ring when he's in it like few others in the sport today.

Before people say about how his image helps his "popularity" - bear in mind that he is currently the 360th most popular celeb on twitter. Charlie Sheen gained more followers in a couple of hours than Floyd has period.

He is popular - but not as popular as he could have been; and when he retires, I think its fair to say that his career won't have hit the heights it could have done.

Where's next for Floyd? The Ring are trashing him; sports illustrated aren't his biggest fans. He hasn't fought in a year and he's got legal issues. Will the Floyd era end with a whimper?

Full article: http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/166865-from-the-pages-of-the-ring-magazine-

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:If we're going to those lengths to discredit wins nowadays then the Pacquiao list will be just as fun, you do like to dig yourself into a hole, the name Morales alone should make you think twice about going down this route

This thread is not about Pacquiao, it is about Floyd's fall from grace and the reasons behind it.

YOU brought him into this thread with one very simple intention. Now you have achieved that, don't complain.

As has been said already, Mayweather hasn't really suffered any fall from grace inside the ring. It's all in his personal life.

This rubbish about Corrales being weight-drained, whether true or not, can be easily turned around to pick MASSIVE holes in a certain other boxer's record. Same with the whole 'facing prison' line. Surely then if facing prison is such a massive distraction (and it IS) then no-one should expect any fighter in a similar circumstance to suffer likewise.

prettyboykev wrote:Windy I don't think it has anything to do with Pac really. If Floyd has fell from grace (although I doubt it because he has never been a loved fighter) it is because of his behaviour outside of the ring and should therefore not take anything away from his in ring achievements which are very impressive.

I absolutely agree with you, prettyboy.

I don't agree with D4's perception in the slightest, but rather I recognize that it is a legitimate point within the debate and that others might feel the same way. Having said that, I don't believe we should let the thread veer off down a side street. I'm sure oxy didn't intend for this to be a Manny / Floyd article.

88Chris05 wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Corrales did struggle with the weight, he was facing prison, the fight was rushed ahead, he did fall out with his management, it was his last fight at 130lbs, and he did suffer with cramp during the fight because he was severaly weight drained then got bloated up by the water he took in to rehydrate.

Bleedin' Christ D4, any other ailments which Corrales was facing that you need to get off your chest? Was he forced to fight wearing the wrong pair of under pants, which meant he couldn't move as freely and easily, and which had nasty little bits of fabric which gave him a rash, because his local laundrette had over-starched his favourite, lucky pair?

It's common knowledge that Mayweather was struggling to make 130 lb by 2001, too. And like Corrales, he also had personal family problems outside the ring. If anything then, the Corrales win was a wonderful one. How great a performance for Mayweather to overcome such difficulties and totally blitz a 33-0 beast of a Super-Featherweight who was in the form of his life, eh?

Corrales only had a grapefruit a day and had to for runs in rubber suits :spank:

Proof? Sources?

Nearly all boxers can have holes picked in their records if the person doing it wants to belittle their acievements. Corrales was a great win for Floyd but according to D4 he had every sickness known to man except the plague.
Like I said before the phrase 'where did it all go wrong?' doesn't fit Floyds career.

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:If we're going to those lengths to discredit wins nowadays then the Pacquiao list will be just as fun, you do like to dig yourself into a hole, the name Morales alone should make you think twice about going down this route

This thread is not about Pacquiao, it is about Floyd's fall from grace and the reasons behind it.

YOU brought him into this thread with one very simple intention. Now you have achieved that, don't complain.

As has been said already, Mayweather hasn't really suffered any fall from grace inside the ring. It's all in his personal life.

This rubbish about Corrales being weight-drained, whether true or not, can be easily turned around to pick MASSIVE holes in a certain other boxer's record. Same with the whole 'facing prison' line. Surely then if facing prison is such a massive distraction (and it IS) then no-one should expect any fighter in a similar circumstance to suffer likewise.

I'm not saying you can't mention Pacquiao, but it should be related to the topic at hand and not go off on a tangent.

I think it is undeniable that fall has suffered a huge fall in grace from the moment Pacquiao moved up to welter.

When he "retired" we all knew he would return and was trying to build is image, with his TV appearances on talk shows, entertainment programs, but all of that is over now because his image is in tatters because of Pacquiao rise in the boxing world.

Pacquiao's influence isn't the major contributory factor. If he had simply agreed to the random blood testing this fight would have happened already. More likely to be a factor is the recurrence of legal 'issues' involving one or more Mayweather, and any financial difficulties, albeit self-inflicted.

BALTIMORA wrote:Pacquiao's influence isn't the major contributory factor. If he had simply agreed to the random blood testing this fight would have happened already.

Floyd was trying to build up his public persona move across to the public mainstream, the rise of Pacquiao has adversely affected this for Floyd to such and extent that sponsor have cut ties of him and he rarely get any TV time whilst Pacquiao has become the face of boxing.

Balti that's been my point from the start anything that has affected Floyd recently has been his out of the ring activity. This shouldn't be used to deter the fact he was an outrageously talented fighter who had a great career apart from the last year - 18 months.

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Pacquiao's influence isn't the major contributory factor. If he had simply agreed to the random blood testing this fight would have happened already.

Floyd was trying to build up his public persona move across to the public mainstream, the rise of Pacquiao has adversely affected this for Floyd to such and extent that sponsor have cut ties of him and he rarely get any TV time whilst Pacquiao has become the face of boxing.

What sponsors?

The fact that Mayweather hasn't fought in a year but is still mentioned every time the Filipino is, coupled with the fact that the Pacquiao nut-huggers seem to have an unhealthy anti-Floyd obsession seems to suggest that Mayweather has far from fallen to the wayside.

Of course an active boxer will attract more media attention than an inactive one. That's not a huge surprise. Fact is though that the same media who cover Mr P also cover every little fart that goes on in Mayweather's life, boxing related or otherwise.

prettyboykev wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Pacquiao's influence isn't the major contributory factor. If he had simply agreed to the random blood testing this fight would have happened already.

Floyd was trying to build up his public persona move across to the public mainstream, the rise of Pacquiao has adversely affected this for Floyd to such and extent that sponsor have cut ties of him and he rarely get any TV time whilst Pacquiao has become the face of boxing.

What sponsors?

http://www.examiner.com/international-sports-in-national/fans-petition-to-cancel-mayweather-s-endorsement-after-racist-tirade


Floyd has never been that popular with the sponsor, I remember him crying over it once and blaming it in because he was black, err I guess Floyd never heard of Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan then.

Think his sponsors are/were AT&T and Reebok, not sure if he lost them, but I'm pretty sure he has not gained any new sponsor in that time.

So where has his career gone wrong?

So you're not sure if he lost his sponsors, but you thought you'd state it as fact anyway?

Are you sure corrales was living off a grapefruit a day and running in rubber suits or is that more BS propagated as fact?

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:So you're not sure if he lost his sponsors, but you thought you'd state it as fact anyway?

Are you sure corrales was living off a grapefruit a day and running in rubber suits or is that more BS propagated as fact?

No that bit is true, Corrales has said so, and I don't think he was lying.

Sources?

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Pacquiao's influence isn't the major contributory factor. If he had simply agreed to the random blood testing this fight would have happened already.

Floyd was trying to build up his public persona move across to the public mainstream, the rise of Pacquiao has adversely affected this for Floyd to such and extent that sponsor have cut ties of him and he rarely get any TV time whilst Pacquiao has become the face of boxing.

What sponsors?

http://www.examiner.com/international-sports-in-national/fans-petition-to-cancel-mayweather-s-endorsement-after-racist-tirade


Floyd has never been that popular with the sponsor, I remember him crying over it once and blaming it in because he was black, err I guess Floyd never heard of Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan then.

Think his sponsors are/were AT&T and Reebok, not sure if he lost them, but I'm pretty sure he has not gained any new sponsor in that time.

You stated as a fact Floyd had lost sponsors now you think it might have happened. Wheres your proof about what you said about Corrales?

*cue frantic search for the most vaguely corroborating evidence*

I looked and could find nothing on sponsors releasing Floyd. Could find a bunch of stuff with people saying his sponsors should release them because of his rant about Pac. Reebok and AT&T were his main ones and they haven't let him go. I'm a member on his site and their is still links to their pages on his site under the heading of sponsors.
As for the Corrales stuff I've never heard any of that before. Sounds like excuses for losing a fight imo.

So where has his career gone wrong?
............................
It's obviously gone wrong somewhere, Coxy. I mean would an happy guy make racial videos ranting about the best fighter in the world, face it, he's rattled, end of story.

Steven_89 wrote:So where has his career gone wrong?
............................
It's obviously gone wrong somewhere, Coxy. I mean would an happy guy make racial videos ranting about the best fighter in the world, face it, he's rattled, end of story.

There you're saying it has gone wrong. How has his career gone wrong do I need to post his achievements up again? He's had an excellent career which over the last year he has been hampered by legal troubles. His career hasn't went wrong just hasn't had the fight everyone wants to see and because you're a Pac fan it's his fault.

Steven_89 wrote:So where has his career gone wrong?
............................
It's obviously gone wrong somewhere, Coxy. I mean would an happy guy make racial videos ranting about the best fighter in the world, face it, he's rattled, end of story.

Steven,

Stop calling posters by other names. You have had it confirmed by Windy that Coxy and Balti are NOT the same poster. Allow me to, again, confirm that they are not the same person.

Continued allegations of this sort will result in a temporary ban.

DT.

Steven_89 wrote:So where has his career gone wrong?
............................
It's obviously gone wrong somewhere, Coxy. I mean would an happy guy make racial videos ranting about the best fighter in the world, face it, he's rattled, end of story.

*sigh*

Please take note of what Windy said earlier: coxy and I are NOT the same person. Saying that though, I'd much rather be mistaken for him than be mistaken for you.

I asked where his CAREER has gone wrong. Undefeated, one of the highest-paid sportsmen of recent times, multi-time, multi-weight world champion. I wish my career would go that wrong.

Sergio/Southpaw/Steven accusing someone else of having multiple accounts, oh sweet irony

The Mighty Atom wrote:Sergio/Southpaw/Steven accusing someone else of having multiple accounts, oh sweet irony

Is that that guy? I'd seen he was on here as Sergio Martinez.

Balti be fair he is only a 5 weight world champion and boasts a record of 41-0. His amateur career was pretty poor as well only 3 national golden gloves at 3 weights and an olympic bronze medal.
Where did it all go wrong?

It went wrong the very second he wasn't born as Manny

prettyboykev wrote:Balti be fair he is only a 5 weight world champion and boasts a record of 41-0. His amateur career was pretty poor as well only 3 national golden gloves at 3 weights and an olympic bronze medal.
Where did it all go wrong?

Exactly. What an utter failure.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Sergio/Southpaw/Steven accusing someone else of having multiple accounts, oh sweet irony

Seen Sergio Martinez on here the other day is that him? Southpaw was on BBC 606 last week saying v2 was s**t and he wasn't going back on again.

David Tails wrote:It went wrong the very second he wasn't born as Manny

Spot on DT the guy may be a tool but he is an awesome fighter.

Steven_89 was southpaws original name on 606 and if you look through his old posts on here you'll see the quoted name as being Sergio

prettyboykev wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Sergio/Southpaw/Steven accusing someone else of having multiple accounts, oh sweet irony

Seen Sergio Martinez on here the other day is that him? Southpaw was on BBC 606 last week saying v2 was s**t and he wasn't going back on again.

Sergio Martinez was on here saying he was Southpaw. Seems like everyone who comes on here and acts a wind-up goes back to old 606 to slate v2. Come end of May they'll be lost..

So let understand some of your comments.

Is is right that some of you are proclaiming that Floyd Mayweather has not had no downturn in his life over the last 2 years or so?

If you think this then state it but why continue replying on a thread when you completely disagree with the OP premise that it has gone wrong for Floyd.

If on the other hand you think Floyd life has taken a down turn over the last two years or so, then the objective of this thread is to identify the reasons for it.

Ahhhhh so Steven_89 is Southpaw_20 from the old 606?? That's explains a lot. Thought he got banned from here under the name Sergio Martinez for calling an admin a pr**k?? I've seen him rubbishing this site on the old 606, whilst squabbling like a girl with Shantel.

No doubt he will bring a lot of quality and informed input to the forum.

It would be nice if people could respect the OP posts and try and answers his question or put forward there own theory of Floyd's demise.

Sounds about right. Best not badmouth him though, or he'll start offering people out. Again.

D4thincarnation wrote:So let understand some of your comments.

Is is right that some of you are proclaiming that Floyd Mayweather has not had no downturn in his life over the last 2 years or so?

If you think this then state it but why continue replying on a thread when you completely disagree with the OP premise that it has gone wrong for Floyd.

If on the other hand you think Floyd life has taken a down turn over the last two years or so, then the objective of this thread is to identify the reasons for it.

Go and see the first page of posts me and Oxring who started thread have already debated it. His personal life hasn't been great but he has done the right thing by not getting in the ring and focusing on sorting his life out. Maybe if the case hadn't been postponed twice already we would know where he stands. D4 what you are saying is if you don't agree that his career has gone wrong then don't post?
Wheres the proof on the sponsors and Corrales you found anything yet?

Maybe you should take a leaf out your own book and do the same in future

I believe that it's most encouraging that we've been able to discuss a potentially volatile subject with a great deal of civility and tolerance, and as one who has been responsible for sorting out the leftovers from previous, failed, attempts I'm grateful to you guys for sparing me that chore this time round. I'm sure that oxy, as the author, feels the same.

Let's keep it going in this spirit.

D4 the title asks where it went wrong. If posters don't feel it went wrong then they are entitled to respond with why. That is the beauty of the OP being made in the form of a question.

Pointing out all of the accolades that he has won is relevant to this discussion. As mentioned by other posters - seems like he had a pretty successful career to me.

David Tails wrote:D4 the title asks where it went wrong. If posters don't feel it went wrong then they are entitled to respond with why. That is the beauty of the OP being made in the form of a question.

Pointing out all of the accolades that he has won is relevant to this discussion. As mentioned by other posters - seems like he had a pretty successful career to me.

Yes but because things have gone right it doesn't mean things can't go wrong.

George Best's career went wrong but that doesn't mean he is not a European cup winner or wipe of the goals he scored.

It feels like the are arguing a different point to the one posed. It not to discuss Floyd's record or his titles but the downturn in his fortunes.

David Tails wrote:D4 the title asks where it went wrong. If posters don't feel it went wrong then they are entitled to respond with why. That is the beauty of the OP being made in the form of a question.

Pointing out all of the accolades that he has won is relevant to this discussion. As mentioned by other posters - seems like he had a pretty successful career to me.

Whilst I agree they can agree with the OP original point, if they do make the point they don't agree it went wrong they it is a debate killer, because then you can discuss the reason's why but have to answer the another question on the why it is so.

So make the point but allow the topic to explore the original point.

The guy's unbeaten, a megastar, an icon of the sport and highly respected for his boxing ability. His career may well be stalling due to problems in his personal life, but it's not gone wrong really

D4 here is my original post on this thread I don't agree but it wasn't a debate killer the opposite actually. It started more debate.
As the name suggests I'm a big Mayweather fan as a boxer not as much as a person over the last couple of years
Great talent but great shame his career has went this way since Hatton. Inactivity and trouble with the law isn't great for boxing.
Such a talent like Floyd with his family background was always going to rise to the top early. Holding him back may have been detrimental to his career. Don't see how his family especially his uncle Roger have been bad for him he has trained him since he turned pro. What could another trainer have taught him?
His hands have always been a problem which isn't his fault but have maybe hindered the way he wants to fight at times. Think on occasion he would like to go looking for a KO but can't.
OK Maybe the general public don't like his style but if a hardcore boxing fan was to tell me they don't enjoy watching him fight I would be stunned. Whittaker and Pep were defencive minded fighters as well and aren't lauded by the public but proper boxing fans rate these guys very highly and Floyd is in their class.
Their is nothing wrong with having high standards and in the ring Floyd clearly has.
As for the ODLH fight the SD was a joke Floyd clearly won around 8 or the rounds.
Don't know where the Ring got the idea that he has never asked for this style of drug testing before. He has done on many occasions including his last fight with Mosley.
Retiring was a bad idea he was never going to be able and sit and watch Pac being paraded as P4P#1 while he was still capable of beating most if not all fighters out their.
The rant about Pac was shocking and done nothing for Floyds reputation but should only be used as a slight on him as a person not a boxer.
The legal troubles aren't great but he hasn't been found guilty of anything so would hold judgement on slating him on that one.

As for the Positives.
He is excellent at selling a fight to the general public. He has attitude,charisma and devilment in abundance. Nothing wrong with this if you can back it up with performances which he has.
Nothing wrong with African Americans supporting an African American although they have dominated boxing for years. A sport which a nation or race excels at will always draw a big following from their ethnic or national background.
Most proper boxing fans will always enjoy watching Floyd he is so naturally gifted at times it's a joy to watch. He can make a top fighter look a level or two below what he actually is. Not many can do that. Defencive masters are a joy to watch in general because it looks so natural in most cases.
His 0 along with cash are all he cares about involving boxing and why shouldn't he? If when he retires he is satisfied with what he has achieved and if that was tomorrow I don't see why he wouldn't be then that should be enough.
He is an enigma the greatest of his generation in the ring but a bit of a knob outside it. He will always split opinion. His personal life should not be allowed to overshaddow what he has shown us in the ring.

D4thincarnation wrote:

David Tails wrote:D4 the title asks where it went wrong. If posters don't feel it went wrong then they are entitled to respond with why. That is the beauty of the OP being made in the form of a question.

Pointing out all of the accolades that he has won is relevant to this discussion. As mentioned by other posters - seems like he had a pretty successful career to me.

Whilst I agree they can agree with the OP original point, if they do make the point they don't agree it went wrong they it is a debate killer, because then you can discuss the reason's why but have to answer the another question on the why it is so.

So make the point but allow the topic to explore the original point.

Why is it a debate killer? Surely if everyone came on and completely agreed that would be a debate killer.

Having posters disagreeing is surely better for debate?

BALTIMORA wrote:The guy's unbeaten, a megastar, an icon of the sport and highly respected for his boxing ability. His career may well be stalling due to problems in his personal life, but it's not gone wrong really

Do you think Floyd is at the height of popularity, fame a respected as a boxer?

Now? Or sometime in the past?

D4thincarnation wrote:

David Tails wrote:D4 the title asks where it went wrong. If posters don't feel it went wrong then they are entitled to respond with why. That is the beauty of the OP being made in the form of a question.

Pointing out all of the accolades that he has won is relevant to this discussion. As mentioned by other posters - seems like he had a pretty successful career to me.

Whilst I agree they can agree with the OP original point, if they do make the point they don't agree it went wrong they it is a debate killer, because then you can discuss the reason's why but have to answer the another question on the why it is so.

So make the point but allow the topic to explore the original point.

We shouldn't forget this, from oxy's article :

Nor is this about a certain boxer from the Philippines - this is JUST about Floyd's career and where it went right - and where it went wrong.

This would imply that the central issue is as much to do with the positive aspects as the negative.

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:The guy's unbeaten, a megastar, an icon of the sport and highly respected for his boxing ability. His career may well be stalling due to problems in his personal life, but it's not gone wrong really

Do you think Floyd is at the height of popularity, fame a respected as a boxer?

Now? Or sometime in the past?

Your agenda here is quite transparent. Do you not think Floyd Mayweather Jr is hugely respected for his excellent boxing ability?

His fortunes have not taken a downturn in the the ring. He remains undefeated. In his last fight he took on the top rated welter - a guy everyone in the sport was demanding he fight, and he won nearly every round, with the fight selling a huge amount of PPV's in the process.

Floyds problems stem from his activities outside the ring, his immaturity, his petulance, his poor attitude. The fact he is a wealthy young man with too much spare time on his hands. He has gotten himself into various spats with the law and at some point will have to answer for them. His career has been put on ice as a result.

If he were to stick to boxing he'd be fine. His out of ring antics may cost him personally and will indirectly affect him professionally. Contrary to what certain nut suckers claim, his current predicament is little or nothing to do with pacquiao, save for the fact that boxing fans have been demanding the fight and it hasn't materialised which reflects poorly on both fighters, not just floyd, but as an exciting and active fighter and likeable guy manny gets less heat than mayweather.

David Tails wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

David Tails wrote:D4 the title asks where it went wrong. If posters don't feel it went wrong then they are entitled to respond with why. That is the beauty of the OP being made in the form of a question.

Pointing out all of the accolades that he has won is relevant to this discussion. As mentioned by other posters - seems like he had a pretty successful career to me.

Whilst I agree they can agree with the OP original point, if they do make the point they don't agree it went wrong they it is a debate killer, because then you can discuss the reason's why but have to answer the another question on the why it is so.

So make the point but allow the topic to explore the original point.

Why is it a debate killer? Surely if everyone came on and completely agreed that would be a debate killer.

Having posters disagreeing is surely better for debate?

Because the debate then becomes about whether he has had a downturn or not about the reasons behind it, and it is a one string banjo, e.g "Floyd's career has not had a downturn" and thats as far as it goes.

Not saying they should not voiced there views, but rather to try and answer the original questions.