From the pages of the ring magazine: Boxing's great enigma; Floyd - where did it go wrong?

BALTIMORA wrote:Mayweather undoubtedly lacks class, but charisma certainly isn't a quality he's lacking. When he wants to, he CAN turn it on. Talk about his fights being boring, but he holds the record with Oscar for most PPVs.

prettyboykev wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Endorsements only prove you are media friendly. Not boxing but look at Beckham their has never been a point in his career where he has been one of the top ten footballers on the planet but made more out of sponsorship deals than most top players made in wages.

Lionel Messi is the top earning footballer in the world and the best.

He is the best but the rest isn't true gon and look these things up before you state them as fact.

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Bernard Hopkins doesn't have much endorsements but that takes nothing away from his ability and standing in the sport.

Bingo. Calzaghe, Eubank, Naz-none were particularly charming when it came to PR, but their in-ring achievements stand separate from their personal lives.

Naz banged in the big money endorsements, he made more money of them than his boxing.

Not sure that's true but it doesn't make him any better a fighter and should have no bearing on his standing in the sport.

Yes it does, it commands respect, gets you bigger fights, allows you to dictate terms, get you more coverage to the wider public and helps the bank balance.

Bit of a generalization, D4.

Plenty of unpopular champions throughout history who traded on their very notoriety.

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Bernard Hopkins doesn't have much endorsements but that takes nothing away from his ability and standing in the sport.

Bingo. Calzaghe, Eubank, Naz-none were particularly charming when it came to PR, but their in-ring achievements stand separate from their personal lives.

Naz banged in the big money endorsements, he made more money of them than his boxing.

Not sure that's true but it doesn't make him any better a fighter and should have no bearing on his standing in the sport.

Yes it does, it commands respect, gets you bigger fights, allows you to dictate terms, get you more coverage to the wider public and helps the bank balance.

prettyboykev wrote:No it's not Rooney and Beckham earn more in weekly wages than Messi and Beckham earns more in endorsements and he has his own clothing range. Go and look it up you are wrong.

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Bernard Hopkins doesn't have much endorsements but that takes nothing away from his ability and standing in the sport.

Bingo. Calzaghe, Eubank, Naz-none were particularly charming when it came to PR, but their in-ring achievements stand separate from their personal lives.

Naz banged in the big money endorsements, he made more money of them than his boxing.

Not sure that's true but it doesn't make him any better a fighter and should have no bearing on his standing in the sport.

Yes it does, it commands respect, gets you bigger fights, allows you to dictate terms, get you more coverage to the wider public and helps the bank balance.

Bit of a generalization, D4.

Plenty of unpopular champions throughout history who traded on their very notoriety.

Yes but the type of fighter Floyd is, is hardly baddest man on the planet animal that gets the general public interested.

HumanWindmill wrote:Gene Tunney had the charisma of a goldfish, while Battling Siki was one of the most colourful lightheavies in history.

Who was the better fighter, and whom does history remember better ?

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:No it's not Rooney and Beckham earn more in weekly wages than Messi and Beckham earns more in endorsements and he has his own clothing range. Go and look it up you are wrong.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2011/03/21/2405496/barcelonas-lionel-messi-is-highest-paid-footballer-real

Hopefully this will put and end to this, and we can get on with the topic at hand.

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Gene Tunney had the charisma of a goldfish, while Battling Siki was one of the most colourful lightheavies in history.

Who was the better fighter, and whom does history remember better ?

The article is saying about making the most of his career, and if he didn't what stopped him, and what helped him.

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Bernard Hopkins doesn't have much endorsements but that takes nothing away from his ability and standing in the sport.

Bingo. Calzaghe, Eubank, Naz-none were particularly charming when it came to PR, but their in-ring achievements stand separate from their personal lives.

Naz banged in the big money endorsements, he made more money of them than his boxing.

Not sure that's true but it doesn't make him any better a fighter and should have no bearing on his standing in the sport.

Yes it does, it commands respect, gets you bigger fights, allows you to dictate terms, get you more coverage to the wider public and helps the bank balance.

Bit of a generalization, D4.

Plenty of unpopular champions throughout history who traded on their very notoriety.

Yes but the type of fighter Floyd is, is hardly baddest man on the planet animal that gets the general public interested.

Neither was first generation Ali, given that he came hot on the heels of the fearsome Liston, and wasn't too far removed from Marciano.

Scottrf wrote:I don't think you understand random. They clearly state "no allowances for black-out or cut-off dates".

Learn to read before questioning me please.

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Bernard Hopkins doesn't have much endorsements but that takes nothing away from his ability and standing in the sport.

Bingo. Calzaghe, Eubank, Naz-none were particularly charming when it came to PR, but their in-ring achievements stand separate from their personal lives.

Naz banged in the big money endorsements, he made more money of them than his boxing.

Not sure that's true but it doesn't make him any better a fighter and should have no bearing on his standing in the sport.

Yes it does, it commands respect, gets you bigger fights, allows you to dictate terms, get you more coverage to the wider public and helps the bank balance.

Bit of a generalization, D4.

Plenty of unpopular champions throughout history who traded on their very notoriety.

Yes but the type of fighter Floyd is, is hardly baddest man on the planet animal that gets the general public interested.

Neither was first generation Ali, given that he came hot on the heels of the fearsome Liston, and wasn't too far removed from Marciano.

But Ali had charisma, Floyd is just cringeworthy.

Come on if you could have 10 minutes talking with Ali or 2 hours of Floyd what would you choose.

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Gene Tunney had the charisma of a goldfish, while Battling Siki was one of the most colourful lightheavies in history.

Who was the better fighter, and whom does history remember better ?

The article is saying about making the most of his career, and if he didn't what stopped him, and what helped him.

So why did you make the point that potential for endorsements is relevant, then ? Where does Messi fit into this ? Or Tiger Woods ?

YOU raised the issue, not I.

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Gene Tunney had the charisma of a goldfish, while Battling Siki was one of the most colourful lightheavies in history.

Who was the better fighter, and whom does history remember better ?

The article is saying about making the most of his career, and if he didn't what stopped him, and what helped him.

So why did you make the point that potential for endorsements is relevant, then ? Where does Messi fit into this ? Or Tiger Woods ?

YOU raised the issue, not I.

I'm not linking it to having the better career.

I think Floyd lack of endorsement was down to his fighting style and his personality. If he changed his style to attack more take more chance and learn some class he would have had more sponsors.

BALTIMORA wrote:Good Christ almighty, are you even thinking about making out like Ali didn't say things easily as bad as-if not worse than-things Floyd has said?

10. HE WAS GIVEN TOO MUCH TOO SOON

Mayweather often says he wasn’t properly promoted early on, but considering he started his career as a bronze medalist from the 1996 Olympic team, he did very well: HBO fawned over him, and Bob Arum treated him like a superstar. Floyd also happened to come along when HBO was giving truckloads of cash to fighters who looked promising. The result was that Mayweather was a millionaire long before he’d done anything noteworthy. Then he complained that it wasn’t enough. Slave wages, indeed.

What If Things Were Different?Would Mayweather be more palatable had he come up the hard way, fighting for smaller purses with much less fanfare? Maybe not. That’s how his father and uncle came up, and they’re pains in the ass too. But maybe he wouldn’t have had such an inflated sense of himself in the early days of his career. And maybe it would’ve occurred to him to take a risk now and then. Where’s the incentive to fight thrilling fights when you already have a closet full of furs and jewels?



9. THE WAYS OF THE MAYWEATHER MEN

Speaking of dear Uncle Roger and Daddy Floyd, one wonders what sort of role models they were during Mayweather’s formative years. Some of the personal issues Mayweather is dealing with are similar to problems experienced by both Roger and Floyd Sr. Let’s just say that the Mayweather men have a particular way of doing things, and it often gets them in trouble. Maybe Floyd should’ve spent more time in the company of his Uncle “Jazzy” Jeff, a Mayweather male who is less volatile.

What If Things Were Different?Had Mayweather grown up in a Brady Bunch/Bill Cosby type of setting, he probably wouldn't be a fighter. Still, had he been exposed to a different sort of trainer/father figure at an early age, perhaps an Eddie Futch or a Freddie Roach, he might’ve seen that following in the footsteps of his relatives wasn’t the best way to go, and he might not be in trouble so often.



8. HE HAS BRITTLE HANDS

Granted, they haven’t been a problem in recent bouts, possibly because he doesn’t fight often, but there was a long period when we didn’t even want to tune in to a Mayweather bout because we knew he’d just slap and pot shot for 12 rounds, fearing another hand injury.

What If Things Were Different?A Floyd Mayweather with sturdier hands would have scored more knockouts and would be an even bigger star than he is now. He would’ve been getting pay-per-view bouts earlier in his career, and the mainstream coverage would’ve come earlier too.



7. HE BECAME TOO DEFENSIVE MINDED

It happens to all fighters. They realize there is something they do well, and then they rely on it too much. After Shane Mosley wobbled him last year, you can be sure Mayweather won’t be sticking his chin out again any time soon.

What If Things Were Different?Some of his bouts wouldn’t have been so deadly dull, that’s what. And if fans didn’t have him pegged as a defensive bore, he wouldn’t have to put on his obnoxious act to hype his fights.



6. HE BECAME A PERFECTIONIST

To borrow a line from George Foreman, “Boxing is sort of like jazz. The better it is, the less people appreciate it.” Certain jazz musicians remind us of Mayweather. They play a tasteful set but they never cut loose and are not particularly moving. That’s how Mayweather fights. Of course, he’d accuse us of being ignoramuses who don’t appreciate the subtleties of his style. Either that or he’d throw a phone at us.

What If Things Were Different?He would’ve seen that Mosley, and Juan Manuel Marquez before him, were ready to be taken in the later rounds and he would have stopped them. Instead, Mayweather was content to win rounds and take no risks.



5. HE PLAYED IT SAFE ON THE BIGGEST NIGHT OF HIS LIFE

With more eyes upon him than ever before, Mayweather entered the ring to face Oscar De La Hoya, and, rather than give us a night to remember, he pecked out a tepid win by split decision. When he realized De La Hoya was fading after the sixth round, Mayweather should’ve pressed the action and knocked De La Hoya out. That’s what Pacquiao did, and stopping Oscar turned “Pac-Man” into P-A-C-M-A-N. True, De La Hoya was a shot fighter when Pacquiao beat him, but he was pretty close to being shot when he fought Floyd.

What If Things Were Different?If Mayweather had stopped De La Hoya, we’re pretty sure Golden Boy would’ve retired soon after, which would’ve denied Pacquiao his own chance on the world stage. And if Pacquiao hadn’t destroyed De La Hoya, there’s no telling how the boxing landscape would’ve looked in recent years.



4. HE BECAME A CONTROL FREAK

He’s been criticized for not fighting various fighters, but we don’t think this has anything to do with fear. We figure he doesn’t like being told what to do. Our own theory about Mayweather’s demands for Olympic-style drug testing is that he’s less concerned with cleaning up the sport than he is with controlling people. Mayweather never talked about drug testing when he was making his own march from featherweight to junior middleweight, but now that he’s settled in at 147, with the world demanding he face Pacquiao, he’s suddenly concerned about the health and welfare of fighters and making sure that everyone is fighting fairly. But his negotiations with Pacquiao showed his priorities: It’s less important for Mayweather to fight than it is to be viewed as a man who calls the shots.

What If Things Were Different?He’d have fought Pacquiao last year. And going back in time, he would’ve fought Joel Casamayor, Acelino Freitas, Kostya Tszyu, Antonio Margarito and Miguel Cotto. ‘Nuff said.



3. HE “RETIRED”

Vanishing is never good for a person’s career. While Mayweather’s 2008-09 sabbatical didn’t seem to harm him athletically or as a box-office attraction, it allowed Pacquiao to gain momentum as the sport’s top name.

What If Things Were Different?Had he stayed active, Mayweather could’ve been the guy to whip Paul Williams. Then again, he probably wasn’t going to fight Williams. He would’ve picked easier opponents (see reason No. 4).



2. HE REMAINS IMMATURE

Emanuel Steward has often said Mayweather is like a big kid. There’s nothing wrong with that, but sometimes Mayweather seems out of touch with the real world. He lives in a strange bubble filled with yes-men and flunkies who don’t dare upset the spoiled child-king. He released a video on the Internet in 2010 in which he hurled racial and homophobic taunts at Pacquiao. In 2007, he was videotaped in a studio doing an equally offensive rap. There’s a bit of the Michael Jackson/Tiger Woods syndrome going on with Mayweather. He’s been boxing since he was a child. He’s lived a largely sheltered life and remains in perpetual adolescence.

What If Things Were Different?We don’t expect Mayweather to suddenly become, say, a congressman or to act as dour as Evander Holyfield, but it would be nice if he weren’t such a hip-hop cartoon character at age 33. His detractors would have a lot less reason to dislike him, and boxing would have one less silly, clichéd personality for whom to apologize.



1. HIS PERSONAL LIFE BEGAN TO OVERSHADOW HIS RING ACCOMPLISHMENTS

His supporters argue that we shouldn’t care about Mayweather’s personal life, but when we see footage of his children’s mother being carried away on a gurney, allegedly because of Mayweather, we can only wonder how much more Mayweather can do before he hits the point of no return. That is, if he hasn’t already.

What If Things Were Different?What he needs to do is get rid of the enablers that surround him and spend some time with a good anger-management coach. For the price of a few bracelets, Mayweather might learn how to deal with his temper. Whether or not he gets out of his current jam, which involves a multitude of charges that have him facing up to 34 years in prison, he needs professional help.

We may never get a Floyd Mayweather who fights like Henry Armstrong. He is what he is: a defensive specialist. But we might settle for a Floyd Mayweather who treats others with more respect. After all, as amusing as it might be to read his Tweets from prison, we’d rather not see him behind bars.

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Good Christ almighty, are you even thinking about making out like Ali didn't say things easily as bad as-if not worse than-things Floyd has said?

Not saying he didn't but it was not cringeworthy when Ali said it, Floyd lacks style class and charisma.

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Good Christ almighty, are you even thinking about making out like Ali didn't say things easily as bad as-if not worse than-things Floyd has said?

Not saying he didn't but it was not cringeworthy when Ali said it, Floyd lacks style class and charisma.

What were YOUR first impressions then, when you read the contemporary reports about it then? You were there, right? If not then you're just using your assumptions in place of real evidence. Again. Stop squirming and trying to move the goalposts.

BALTIMORA wrote:Thank you, Windy. That was precisely my point. With the passage of time people often don't realise how horrible a man Ali/Clay could be, in terms of what he said. Many of the negatives are glossed over nowadays.